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Posted: 4/16/2008 7:03:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:06:38 PM EDT
Profiteering at the expense of GREAT AMERICANS trapped in a bad situation and abandoned for political reasons.

If every penny of the profits from that film are given to the families of the deceased I will watch it.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:06:39 PM EDT
My favorite movie. I always get all choked up when Shughart and Gordon go down to rescue Durant.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:07:57 PM EDT
Thanks for the heads up!
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:08:48 PM EDT

Caught it.
That movie should be mandatory viewing for every American, at least once.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:12:33 PM EDT
I have it on DVD and can watch it whenever I want.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:14:37 PM EDT
Sad
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:21:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:35:33 PM EDT
It seems to be the same much of the time ... our guys get put in a tough spot and then the bureaucrats screw them over every time...
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:45:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards:
Profiteering at the expense of GREAT AMERICANS trapped in a bad situation and abandoned for political reasons.

If every penny of the profits from that film are given to the families of the deceased I will watch it.


what
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:48:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards:
Profiteering at the expense of GREAT AMERICANS trapped in a bad situation and abandoned for political reasons.

If every penny of the profits from that film are given to the families of the deceased I will watch it.
'


You're taking it the WRONG way.

This movie was made as a tribute and to make money. It wasn't just made to get rich.

You're the one killing the message of the film.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:51:32 PM EDT
Great movie I watch the DVD all the time.


Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:41:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2008 7:52:09 PM EDT by AMHsix]
.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:45:02 PM EDT
great movie.

One of my all time favorites.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:48:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushtree:
great movie.

One of my all time favorites.


+1

Watching it now
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:55:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards:
Profiteering at the expense of GREAT AMERICANS trapped in a bad situation and abandoned for political reasons.

If every penny of the profits from that film are given to the families of the deceased I will watch it.
'


You're taking it the WRONG way.

This movie was made as a tribute and to make money. It wasn't just made to get rich.

You're the one killing the message of the film.

Seriously, that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen mentioned here about that film. You need to read up on the story behind the making of the film, and how hard the actors strove to honor the men they represented. Brother.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:34:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:
My favorite movie. I always get all choked up when Shughart and Gordon go down to rescue Durant.


You're not alone.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:00:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2008 8:05:21 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By AMHsix:
Was the mission plan really bad?

Why was the General surprised about what happened to Blackbird(?, the guy that fell from the Blackhawk)? Was it too soon in the mission, or did he think everyone would make it out alive?

Did everyone that had to run back to base actually make it alive (in real life)?



Was the mission plan really bad?
Yes, they should have had light armored vehicles, and a larger force, not soft skinned HMMWVs. But Les Aspin, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, didn't want to send US armor to Somalia because of "how it might look."  Of course the Pakis had tanks and APCs. The real problem was they were not equipped for a long engagement in Bakara Market, and when the helos went down, that's what it became, instead of a quick in and out mission. They seriously underestimated the sentiment and firepower in the Bakara Market sector, but they were hamstrung by the resources provided.

Command and control was also not good, since the convoy was being guided by a team from an airborne helo. McKinight complained that the commands on route often came too late and they would miss a turn, causing them to be exposed to hostile fire much longer. In short, the convoy command and control was clusterf*ck. They would have been better finding their own way out with route maps, were is not for the numerous roadblocks and burning piles of tires, which would be erected by the Warlord's gangs.



Why was the General surprised about what happened to Blackbird?

His name was Todd Blackburn, not Blackbird. The problem was that Blackburn's fall tied up resources and delayed the exfil with the prisoners by happening so early on.


Did everyone that had to run back to base actually make it alive (in real life)?
Yes, most of the hostiles were in Bakara, once they cleared that area, there was less threat. It didn't happen exactly as shown in the movie. You should read Mark Bowden's Book, it is much more accurate and an excellent read.



Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:05:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By AMHsix:
Was the mission plan really bad?

Why was the General surprised about what happened to Blackbird(?, the guy that fell from the Blackhawk)? Was it too soon in the mission, or did he think everyone would make it out alive?

Did everyone that had to run back to base actually make it alive (in real life)?



Was the mission plan really bad?
Yes, they should have had light armored vehicles, and a larger force, not soft skinned HMMWVs. But Les Aspin, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, didn't want to send US armor to Somalia because of "how it might look."  Of course the Pakis had tanks and APCs. The real problem was they were not equipped for a long engagement in Bakara Market, and when the helos went down, that's what it became, instead of a quick in and out mission. They seriously underestimated the sentiment and firepower in the Bakara Market sector, but they were hamstrung by the resources provided.



Why was the General surprised about what happened to Blackbird?

His name was Todd Blackburn, not Blackbird. The problem was that Blackburn's fall tied up resources and delayed the exfil with the prisoners by happening so early on.


Did everyone that had to run back to base actually make it alive (in real life)?
Yes, most of the hostiles were in Bakara, once they cleared that area, there was less threat. It didn't happen exactly as shown in the movie. You should read Mark Bowden's Book, it is much more accurate and an excellent read.





With the resources that they had, I'd say the mission plan was fair. Gen. Garrison wanted much more firepower than he got. IIRC he wanted to send in Bradley's and M-1 Abrams tanks along with a C-130 providing air cover. Washington said no. The plan was good, but he was severely limited by his resources.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:05:50 AM EDT
For me, the scene where the skinnys close in on Durant is one of the scariest EVER.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:06:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2008 8:19:31 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By AMHsix:
Was the mission plan really bad?

Why was the General surprised about what happened to Blackbird(?, the guy that fell from the Blackhawk)? Was it too soon in the mission, or did he think everyone would make it out alive?

Did everyone that had to run back to base actually make it alive (in real life)?



Was the mission plan really bad?
Yes, they should have had light armored vehicles, and a larger force, not soft skinned HMMWVs. But Les Aspin, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, didn't want to send US armor to Somalia because of "how it might look."  Of course the Pakis had tanks and APCs. The real problem was they were not equipped for a long engagement in Bakara Market, and when the helos went down, that's what it became, instead of a quick in and out mission. They seriously underestimated the sentiment and firepower in the Bakara Market sector, but they were hamstrung by the resources provided.



Why was the General surprised about what happened to Blackbird?

His name was Todd Blackburn, not Blackbird. The problem was that Blackburn's fall tied up resources and delayed the exfil with the prisoners by happening so early on.


Did everyone that had to run back to base actually make it alive (in real life)?
Yes, most of the hostiles were in Bakara, once they cleared that area, there was less threat. It didn't happen exactly as shown in the movie. You should read Mark Bowden's Book, it is much more accurate and an excellent read.





With the resources that they had, I'd say the mission plan was fair. Gen. Garrison wanted much more firepower than he got. IIRC he wanted to send in Bradley's and M-1 Abrams tanks along with a C-130 providing air cover. Washington said no. The plan was good, but he was severely limited by his resources.


Agree they needed more firepower/armor, but their contingency planning seemed lacking. I think our intelligence was lacking. It turned out that the Somalis gangs had received training from other groups on how to shoot down a helo with an RPG. They were taught to attached a steel deflector plate the to back of the RPG so that the back blast was deflected and didn't hit the floor when the RPG was aimed skyward, and toast the shooter. They were also taught how to lead the helo, and aim for the tail rotors, which would disable the helo. In light of this, using the BlackHawks for the raid was ill advised.

ETA  Of course it's all too easy to say that after the fact. All in all I think Garrison was competent, but the circumstances led to everything going to hell in a hand basket very quickly. There is no doubt that all US forces involved performed honorably in making the best of a very bad situation.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:15:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2008 11:34:45 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By madmathew:
For me, the scene where the skinnys close in on Durant is one of the scariest EVER.


You should read his book, In the Company of Heroes.. In it he discloses that although the movie showed him getting hit in the face by a rifle butt, in reality it was actually the arm of one of his crew chiefs that had been dismembered by the angry Somali mob.  He says they didn't think it would go down too well in the movie and kept that a secret for a long time, but finally disclosed it in the book.

Those animals literally ripped apart the bodies of some of the crew and possibly Shugart and Gordon, according to Durant.

Excellent book, a must read, IMO. He went though hell, with a broken back and legs, while he was in captivity.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:17:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By AMHsix:
Was the mission plan really bad?

Why was the General surprised about what happened to Blackbird(?, the guy that fell from the Blackhawk)? Was it too soon in the mission, or did he think everyone would make it out alive?

Did everyone that had to run back to base actually make it alive (in real life)?



Was the mission plan really bad?
Yes, they should have had light armored vehicles, and a larger force, not soft skinned HMMWVs. But Les Aspin, Clinton's Secretary of Defense, didn't want to send US armor to Somalia because of "how it might look."  Of course the Pakis had tanks and APCs. The real problem was they were not equipped for a long engagement in Bakara Market, and when the helos went down, that's what it became, instead of a quick in and out mission. They seriously underestimated the sentiment and firepower in the Bakara Market sector, but they were hamstrung by the resources provided.



Why was the General surprised about what happened to Blackbird?

His name was Todd Blackburn, not Blackbird. The problem was that Blackburn's fall tied up resources and delayed the exfil with the prisoners by happening so early on.


Did everyone that had to run back to base actually make it alive (in real life)?
Yes, most of the hostiles were in Bakara, once they cleared that area, there was less threat. It didn't happen exactly as shown in the movie. You should read Mark Bowden's Book, it is much more accurate and an excellent read.





With the resources that they had, I'd say the mission plan was fair. Gen. Garrison wanted much more firepower than he got. IIRC he wanted to send in Bradley's and M-1 Abrams tanks along with a C-130 providing air cover. Washington said no. The plan was good, but he was severely limited by his resources.


Agree they needed more firepower/armor, but their contingency planning seemed lacking. I think our intelligence was lacking. It turned out that the Somalis gangs had received training from other groups on how to shoot down a helo with an RPG. They were taught to attached a steel deflector plate the to back of the RPG so that the back blast was deflected and didn't hit the floor when the RPG was aimed skyward, and toast the shooter. They were also taught how to lead the helo, and aim for the tail rotors, which would disable the helo. In light of this, using the BlackHawks for the raid was ill advised.


The Blackhawks were too big and slow. At least for this situation, Little Birds would have made more sense. I think they should have had all the Rangers pull up in Col. McKnight's convoy. They could have used more Delta and have them land around the target building in Little Birds to set up the perimeter, while a small team grabbed the prisoners.

Of course, it is easy to second guess their plan. Not having been there, I can't really say what they should have done.

I know I sound like an armchair general.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:18:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By madmathew:
For me, the scene where the skinnys close in on Durant is one of the scariest EVER.


You should read his book, In the Company of Heroes.. In it he discloses that although the movie showed in getting hit in the face by a rifle butt, in reality is was actually the arm of one of his crew chiefs that had been dismemebered by the angry Somali mob.  He says they didn't think it would go down too well too well in the movie and kept that a secret for a long time, but finally disclosed it in the book.

Those animals literally ripped apart the bodies of some of the crew and possibly Shugart and Gordon, according to Durant.

Excellent book, a must read, IMO. He went though hell, with a broken back and legs, while he was in captivity.


I read that book. It made me wish I had a minigun when that crowd closed in.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:21:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2008 8:21:26 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By madmathew:
For me, the scene where the skinnys close in on Durant is one of the scariest EVER.


You should read his book, In the Company of Heroes.. In it he discloses that although the movie showed in getting hit in the face by a rifle butt, in reality is was actually the arm of one of his crew chiefs that had been dismemebered by the angry Somali mob.  He says they didn't think it would go down too well too well in the movie and kept that a secret for a long time, but finally disclosed it in the book.

Those animals literally ripped apart the bodies of some of the crew and possibly Shugart and Gordon, according to Durant.

Excellent book, a must read, IMO. He went though hell, with a broken back and legs, while he was in captivity.


I read that book. It made me wish I had a minigun when that crowd closed in.



It's just to bad it wasn't pintle mounted M60s on that crashed bird instead of the electric dependent miniguns. Shugart and Gordon could have gotten behind one of those and mowed down the skinnies.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:22:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By madmathew:
For me, the scene where the skinnys close in on Durant is one of the scariest EVER.


You should read his book, In the Company of Heroes.. In it he discloses that although the movie showed in getting hit in the face by a rifle butt, in reality is was actually the arm of one of his crew chiefs that had been dismemebered by the angry Somali mob.  He says they didn't think it would go down too well too well in the movie and kept that a secret for a long time, but finally disclosed it in the book.

Those animals literally ripped apart the bodies of some of the crew and possibly Shugart and Gordon, according to Durant.

Excellent book, a must read, IMO. He went though hell, with a broken back and legs, while he was in captivity.


I read that book. It made me wish I had a minigun when that crowd closed in.



It's just to bad it wasn't pintle mounted M60s on that crashed bird instead of the electric dependent miniguns. Shugart and Gordon could have gotten behind one of those and mowed down the skinnies.


I always thought the same thing. But I don't think they would because not everyone in the crowd was shooting at them.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:23:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:24:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:


I know I sound like an armchair general.


I'm sure it has been mentally reconstructed many different ways, by many people, many times over the years, including by Garrison himself. That's how we learn, I think.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:29:19 AM EDT
I have personaaly heard one of the Rangers (SSGTKeni Thomas)  that was there that day speak. According to him the movie was about as accurate as it could be told in the length of a movie. He was one of the ones who had to run out. According to him they referred to it as the "Mogadishu Mile". Very enlightening to hear him talk about it.

Also heard Todd Blackburn on the Radio one day talking about his part in the whole thing.

I own the DVD and watch it often. Every one should be required to watch it at least once so they can see how some people around the world really feel about us.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:52:54 AM EDT
SSG Brian Hancock was one of my BNCOC instructors, the things he told me about what happened and some outright falsehoods in the movie was very interesting....
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 8:54:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:19:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
SSG Brian Hancock was one of my BNCOC instructors, the things he told me about what happened and some outright falsehoods in the movie was very interesting....
Elaborate?


I'm curious too.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:02:32 AM EDT
Great movie.  

FWIW:  I grew up with Todd Blackburn and we talk every once in awhile.  We still tease him (in a funny friend way) about the fall.  It was rough going for him for awhile though.  Now, he's a cop for one of the larger Florida panhandle cities.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:07:48 AM EDT
I almost posted this same thread last night, when I saw the movie was on.  I was just going to say "BHD on FX RFN" and see how many people got it.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:07:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
SSG Brian Hancock was one of my BNCOC instructors, the things he told me about what happened and some outright falsehoods in the movie was very interesting....
Elaborate?


I'm curious too.
Such as throwing the strobe on the roof and taking out the guys on the technical with the recoiless at night with knives/garrots.....
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:16:38 PM EDT
I remember going to see an advance screening of the movie and a group of asian teenagers were laughing whenever an American got hurt.  
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:21:28 PM EDT
I'm superstitious.

I don't watch Blackhawk Down while my son is deployed.

The last time I watched a serious shoot-em-up while he was gone, the CH-53 he was riding in crashed.

After that, the next shoot-em-up I watched, four of his Recon team (two operators and two translators) got blown up by a command detonated IED.

I'll wait until next November, thank you very much.


Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:21:31 PM EDT
Question, without agenda:

Comparison of BHD [what happened, not just the movie] to Operation Anaconda.

Is this the perpetual military event of overcome by circumstances?
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:29:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By madmathew:
For me, the scene where the skinnys close in on Durant is one of the scariest EVER.


You should read his book, In the Company of Heroes.. In it he discloses that although the movie showed him getting hit in the face by a rifle butt, in reality it was actually the arm of one of his crew chiefs that had been dismemebered by the angry Somali mob.  He says they didn't think it would go down too well too well in the movie and kept that a secret for a long time, but finally disclosed it in the book.

Those animals literally ripped apart the bodies of some of the crew and possibly Shugart and Gordon, according to Durant.

Excellent book, a must read, IMO. He went though hell, with a broken back and legs, while he was in captivity.



Ugh....
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:45:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2008 3:45:20 AM EDT by VillageIdiot2]

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By 161Infantry:
SSG Brian Hancock was one of my BNCOC instructors, the things he told me about what happened and some outright falsehoods in the movie was very interesting....
Elaborate?


I'm curious too.
Such as throwing the strobe on the roof and taking out the guys on the technical with the recoiless at night with knives/garrots.....


Well obiviously some movie magic had to be thrown in.
And quite abit of the actual carnage, and sleazy tactics used by the somalis had been left out.

Like the sniper laying in the dirt and having his children sit around him and on his back so our guys wouldn't fire on him. Using children and wives to point out soldiers positions. ect ect I'm sure many of you had read the book.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 3:33:19 AM EDT
Every time I come across that movie I get mad all over again.

I did a bunch of research after reading Bowden's book and was infuriated to learn of the extent of Clinton's sell-out to the UN.

Reader's Digest Version -
1. The leader of the clan in primary competition to Adid's was an uncle to UN Sec. Gen. Bhutros Bhutros Ghali.
2. The USMC had settled most of the distribution of food and aid issues related to Adid's clan and had been recalled under President Bush 41.
3. The ambush, capture and murder of 21 (IIRC) Pakistani UN Peacekeepers was used by UN Sec. Gen. Ghali as reason to request a renewed US presence.
4. President Clinton agreed to the UN request, and as indicated, Aspin denied any .mil request for air support or armor.

Entire attempt to apprehend Adid and other leadership of his clan was no more than a UN sanctioned powergrab by Ghali's uncle and his competing clan that was paid for with 18 US lives.

Links are beginning to appear that OBL and/or other Al Qaeda leadership was involved in supplying and training the Adid clan in the use of RPG's vs. helicopters, urban ambush and other responses to the US Military.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 3:43:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards:
Profiteering at the expense of GREAT AMERICANS trapped in a bad situation and abandoned for political reasons.

If every penny of the profits from that film are given to the families of the deceased I will watch it.

Oh please.

Link Posted: 4/18/2008 3:51:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By madmathew:
For me, the scene where the skinnys close in on Durant is one of the scariest EVER.


You should read his book, In the Company of Heroes.. In it he discloses that although the movie showed in getting hit in the face by a rifle butt, in reality is was actually the arm of one of his crew chiefs that had been dismemebered by the angry Somali mob.  He says they didn't think it would go down too well too well in the movie and kept that a secret for a long time, but finally disclosed it in the book.

Those animals literally ripped apart the bodies of some of the crew and possibly Shugart and Gordon, according to Durant.

Excellent book, a must read, IMO. He went though hell, with a broken back and legs, while he was in captivity.


I read that book. It made me wish I had a minigun when that crowd closed in.



It's just to bad it wasn't pintle mounted M60s on that crashed bird instead of the electric dependent miniguns. Shugart and Gordon could have gotten behind one of those and mowed down the skinnies.


I always thought the same thing. But I don't think they would because not everyone in the crowd was shooting at them.


better than me..

cuz i woulda mowed down everyone of them SOB's......when ya stand with trash you smell like trash and no one knows the difference...
but thats just me..


great movie,,i watch it least once a year...used to play the game ALOT as well...
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 6:25:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By madmathew:
For me, the scene where the skinnys close in on Durant is one of the scariest EVER.


You should read his book, In the Company of Heroes.. In it he discloses that although the movie showed in getting hit in the face by a rifle butt, in reality is was actually the arm of one of his crew chiefs that had been dismemebered by the angry Somali mob.  He says they didn't think it would go down too well too well in the movie and kept that a secret for a long time, but finally disclosed it in the book.

Those animals literally ripped apart the bodies of some of the crew and possibly Shugart and Gordon, according to Durant.

Excellent book, a must read, IMO. He went though hell, with a broken back and legs, while he was in captivity.


I read that book. It made me wish I had a minigun when that crowd closed in.



It's just to bad it wasn't pintle mounted M60s on that crashed bird instead of the electric dependent miniguns. Shugart and Gordon could have gotten behind one of those and mowed down the skinnies.


I always thought the same thing. But I don't think they would because not everyone in the crowd was shooting at them.


better than me..

cuz i woulda mowed down everyone of them SOB's......when ya stand with trash you smell like trash and no one knows the difference...
but thats just me..


great movie,,i watch it least once a year...used to play the game ALOT as well...


Excellent movie, and the game was good as well!

I remember most of the characters faces in the game were modeled afters some of the actors in the movie.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:48:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wiggy762:
Every time I come across that movie I get mad all over again.

I did a bunch of research after reading Bowden's book and was infuriated to learn of the extent of Clinton's sell-out to the UN.

Reader's Digest Version -
1. The leader of the clan in primary competition to Adid's was an uncle to UN Sec. Gen. Bhutros Bhutros Ghali.
2. The USMC had settled most of the distribution of food and aid issues related to Adid's clan and had been recalled under President Bush 41.
3. The ambush, capture and murder of 21 (IIRC) Pakistani UN Peacekeepers was used by UN Sec. Gen. Ghali as reason to request a renewed US presence.
4. President Clinton agreed to the UN request, and as indicated, Aspin denied any .mil request for air support or armor.

Entire attempt to apprehend Adid and other leadership of his clan was no more than a UN sanctioned powergrab by Ghali's uncle and his competing clan that was paid for with 18 US lives.

Links are beginning to appear that OBL and/or other Al Qaeda leadership was involved in supplying and training the Adid clan in the use of RPG's vs. helicopters, urban ambush and other responses to the US Military.


IIRC it was after Clinton pulled out that Bin Laden decided that he could attack us because we had no backbone. Clinton wasted the lives of all those men. That is why we cannot leave Iraq now. All those deaths would be in vain.


Also, Shughart's father told Clinton that he was not fit to be President. I believe it was at the Medal of Honor ceremony for his son, but my memory is foggy.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 10:59:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wiggy762:
Links are beginning to appear that OBL and/or other Al Qaeda leadership was involved in supplying and training the Adid clan in the use of RPG's vs. helicopters, urban ambush and other responses to the US Military.


IIRC, the original ending to the movie had some text on the screen that indicated that Al Quaida had been involved with the incident through the arming/training of the Somali militia, but it was edited out.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 11:16:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eswanson:

Originally Posted By wiggy762:
Links are beginning to appear that OBL and/or other Al Qaeda leadership was involved in supplying and training the Adid clan in the use of RPG's vs. helicopters, urban ambush and other responses to the US Military.


IIRC, the original ending to the movie had some text on the screen that indicated that Al Quaida had been involved with the incident through the arming/training of the Somali militia, but it was edited out.


Why? Maybe CNN would be pissed that they were owned by their own liberalistic agenda.
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