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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/28/2001 2:08:40 PM EDT
Can anyone tell me, from first-hand experience or whatever, if 12 gauge 00 buck can [b]RELIABLY[/b] kill a black bear? I’m going into the Sierra’s for 9 days next month, and black bears are in the area I’m going to. I’m well aware that they are generally easy-going souls, and rarely attack man. Nevertheless, they are big, have big claws, and can get mean. I’ve never given much thought to this on past trips, and have only taken a .45. Last year, however, we had a close encounter (a harmless one). This year I’m going prepared, but next to my AR the most powerful gun I’ve got is a short-barreled 870. I think this would kill a black bear, but is this just wishful thinking? How about a few rounds of 000 buck?
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:15:26 PM EDT
If 6 shots from a .44 mag in the chest wont drop it I don't think 00 buck will do much but piss it off. I speak from my dad's experience. It took a 7th shot to break it's back to drop it and an 8th shot in the head to kill it. Oh yeah, the 7th shot was as it was running away after biting my dad's jacket. Sydwaiz
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:37:08 PM EDT
THIS JUST IN: RATS MAY DIE IF SHOT WITH A 9MM. Just a joke but did you not know that evey thing is vulnerable to buckshot thats what is so good about it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:37:48 PM EDT
Buckshot, at close range, will definitely ruin a black bears day. An average black bear is only a couple hundred pounds, or so. Stick with 00 buck. Carry pepper spray also- for a non lethal approach.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:41:12 PM EDT
I would bet my money that 00 buck shot will do the job just fine. Now personal experience though. sorry. [:)]
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:42:49 PM EDT
If you get right down to it, birdshot at close range could kill a bear but why chance it? I would probably take both buck and slugs alternately loaded in the magazine, with the buck loaded first. A slug will definately take one down, but you never know when you might need to get off a very quick, hardly aimed shot. Michael
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:45:10 PM EDT
When I had gone camping in Alaska I asked a few hunting guides online about what I should take with me. Most said if your not taking a hunting rifle take a shotgun with 00 buckshot and slug in it make your first shot 00 buckshot then go slug, buckshot slug until your shot gun is full. Id write a few hunting guides around where your going and ask them and don't shoot a bear with an AR-15 you'd just piss him/her off more
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:47:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 2:48:55 PM EDT
They call it Buckshot not Bearshot - If you gotta use a shotgun use magnum slugs; anything less would be uncivilized.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 3:21:12 PM EDT
Thanks for the responses. I like the idea of alternating buckshot/slug. I'll put the M249 SAW back in the vault.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 3:41:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ColonelKlink: I heard about a kid that killed a black bear with a .22-250, donno if its true or not.
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I would say this is definately possible... Shot placement. There are some head shots you can make which will penetrate a bears skull. I forget the page I read it on but it was about grizzley protection.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 4:13:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SaltCreek: Thanks for the responses. I like the idea of alternating buckshot/slug. I'll put the M249 SAW back in the vault.
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Just make sure its buckshot first because when that thing charges your aim is not going to be the best because. YOUR GOING TO BE SCARED Like I said just write a hunting guide ask him what he thinks I was told this by Alaskan hunting guides the place your going my tell you something else. If your going some place that has wolverines worry more about them then the bears they are mean little S.O.B. they will take you down and chew you up.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 4:13:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SaltCreek: Thanks for the responses. I like the idea of alternating buckshot/slug. I'll put the M249 SAW back in the vault.
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Just make sure its buckshot first because when that thing charges your aim is not going to be the best because. YOUR GOING TO BE SCARED Like I said just write a hunting guide ask him what he thinks I was told this by Alaskan hunting guides the place your going my tell you something else. If your going some place that has wolverines worry more about them then the bears they are mean little S.O.B. they will take you down and chew you up.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 4:13:37 PM EDT
In 1992 my hunting buddy shot a black bear here in northern New Mexico. He was shooting a black powder .54 roundball. (not my first choice in projectiles) The bear had not spotted him and had it's head down snuffling in the dirt. He fired at the top of the skull, which was facing him, since the bear had his nose in the dirt. The bear let out a squall and ran blindly past him. As it went past he saw that there was a flap of skin waving in the breeze where the round ball had riccoched off the top of the head. The bear continued hauling ass through the oak brush for a couple of hundred yards till he couldn't hear him anymore. If the bear didn't die of a concussion, he is probably still alive today. No, buckshot is not a reliable bear stopper. I would take my 45/70 with a 300 grainer moving at 2100 feet per second. That should work...Andrew
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 4:24:31 PM EDT
The buckshot isn't supposed to be the stopper. I don't care what kind of animal it is, if a good blast of 00 Buck doesn't kill it, it will sure as hell stop it for a second. That is all the time you will need to take careful aim and administer the slug. I was out deer hunting with a friend and we were walking back to camp and we came over a hill and saw a buck munching with his head behind a big tree and we were able to sneak up within about 40yds of it. It was my friends first hunt and he was pretty nervous and I let him have the shot with my shotgun using 00 Buck. He shot once and made a kill shot in the neck, with one of the balls actually running up the neck into the brain. The deer jumped and he immediately fired another round into its hind quarter for fear that he had missed with the first shot. (As a side note, he shot twice so fast it sounded like a machinegun, and this was with a Win 1300 pump no less) The second shot almost completely severed the left back leg between the knee and the hip. There was nothing buy a little hide holding it on. Because of that experience and seeing what that kind of damage those two shots inflicted, I have a lot of faith in some accurately applied buck shot. I think that at a close enough range a decently placed shot would be fatal to a moderate sized bear. Still though, nice to have a slug to back it up. Michael
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 4:32:42 PM EDT
There's nothing in these 48 on 2 or 4 legs that won't drop in a hurry from buckshot at close range. Anyone that tells you different has no experience.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 4:41:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By flasht: There's nothing in these 48 on 2 or 4 legs that won't drop in a hurry from buckshot at close range. Anyone that tells you different has no experience.
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That may be true, but I don't know about everybody else but if a bear starts charging me I would probably let loose the first round before it got close enough to be reliabily dropped from buck. I've never seen a bear in real life, yet, so I can't speak from experience. But I sure as hell know that no bear could take a slug to the chest and survive to tell bear stories about it. Michael
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 5:17:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 5:46:49 PM EDT
Unless very, very close, I doubt a big wild pig would "drop" from buckshot. Neither would a Buffalo, nor an Elk.. all of these would run for a long ways I bet before dropping...Let's try a grizzly, not a brown bear.. a penetrating rifle round is needed for a quick stop...
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 6:04:35 PM EDT
If you just happened to come across a black bear, while you're walking down a trail, probably a loud voice or a .22 firing in the air would be enough to scare it off...they're pretty shy (around here anyway) That's a whole different story than one charging at you...No buckshot needed...
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 6:26:55 PM EDT
God man... if you are going to do that just load up your AR with some green-tips and a cmag. I have a friend who likes to Hunt deer using a Gerber knife... its really amazing how he gets a deer more often then me... whats unfortunet is he doesnt have any hunting license and got a HUGE fine last year, not to mention everyone found out what he was doing and people want to use a knife on him. DON'T KILL WINNIE THE POOH!!!
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 7:29:04 PM EDT
Okay, everyone needs to go back and read the second post here. This bear was taken near Mt. Shasta in California and weighed over 400 pounds. The first 6 shots were all in the chest. Don't forget, these things have 4 inches of fat so you need good penetration.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 7:47:19 PM EDT
Ya know what I bet .223 would work damn good. Just put 3 or 4 in it's head really fast and that crap will frag to hell and back,I bet he will not have a head left to speek of.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 8:01:25 PM EDT
Get a 450 marlin lever gun.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:17:09 PM EDT
Saw a black bear shot one time with an AR. Three rounds did the job. Having said that, the guy was in a tree stand, and the bear went a good fifty yards through thick brush before he gave out. I have also seen bears turn inide out running away from a pot we started beating, and this particular one I remember must have set some kind of land speed record. They are tough and fast. The AR will work, but I wouldnt bet my life on it. Go with the shotgun or one of those little 45 caliber "guide guns."
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:34:58 PM EDT
A cell phone with the Forestry Dept. on autodial would work the best.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:52:16 PM EDT
Read what the people in Alaska have to say about protecting yourself from bear attacks, especially the last paragraph. They have to deal with real bears not the pissy little black bears in the Sierras in PRK. [url]http://alaskan.com/docs/bearsnyou.html[/url] I agree with Flasht, we live in a state where we have big critters, and there is nothing around here that a load of high base 00 Buck won't stop dead in its tracks. I also agree with Lumpy223, they are one of the fastest most agile animals in the woods. The myth that you can out run them going down hill because their front legs are shorter than their back legs is a bunch of bullshit.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 9:57:50 PM EDT
The best defense against Cali black bears is to be aware, be alert, and don't be stupid. There are really only two reasons you would have to fear a black bear in CA. One is that it wants or has your food and thinks you are trying to get it away from him/her. The other is that you got too close to it's cubs. Store your food properly, and if approaches while you are cooking and noise doesn't scare it off let it have your food. If you are hiking don't play Joe Commando and see how stealthy you can be. You might just surprise the bear. The only other (remote) reason, is that the bear is rabid. If that is the case and it attacks you without provocation you better be a long distance away when you start shooting because a black bear can sprint 35 mph over short distances. One time when was driving up near Hetch Hetchy resovoir a black bear ran out of the bushes (from down hill) passed my car, cut across in front of me and ran up the side of a steep mountain side and disappeared out of sight. All in about 15 seconds. FWIW, the rangers in the Kings Canyon/Seqouia Nat'l forests carry shot guns in their vehicles loaded with buck and slugs.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 10:08:03 PM EDT
With black bear unless you get between the bear and its cubs, it will most likely be just as scared of you as you are of it and will probably run. There have been a few in this area ( usually right after the neighbors start smoking salmon they got the week before ) A few people have seen a pretty big one out the range I shoot at. However, brown bear and grizzleys are the ones that are most dangerous, If they were a threat where your going then yea, I would definately carry something like a 45/70 lever action or a .454 casull, or even a mossberg 500 pistol grip full of slugs, Dan Wesson .445 super mag. Also many people claim that pepper spray will also scare black bears off. I would probably take both and hope for the best.
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 10:36:46 PM EDT
Well, I guess I would agree that 00 should stop anything here in NA. But if you are going to pack a shotgun, why don't you just buy a good used rifle and pack that? Years ago while bear hunting w/my buddy (Who I will call Mr. Cheap here for reasons obvious in a minute) we spotted a bear, stalked down to where we thought we were close, and after whispering our plans to divide & conquer, split up and started off on the last leg of our stalk. As I turned to walk away Mr. C raised his rifle & fired. We were about 8 ft apart then and I had to look a bit to finally see the rear end of the bear (We were in a high meadow w/tall flowers and grass). Mr. C said he could just see it's head, but "knew" he had hit it in the neck and that it was dead, whereupon he proceeded to pull his knife out and announced his intentions of skinning it. I told him that if he didn't shoot it in the head first I was going to shoot it in the butt as that was the only part I could see. His comment was "#@*@, you know these shells cost 35 cents apiece?" Then he shot it in the head and all you know what broke loose about 8 ft from us. When he shot it jumped straight up thrashing around. I hit it in the chest and all the excitement was over in about 2 seconds that seemed more like minutes. The post mortem showed that the first shot (.308) went through the front of the neck (the bear had stood to look at Mr. C, prompting him to shoot), hitting the spine pretty much straight on but glancing off. Was the bear all but dead? Maybe, but sure had enough left left in him to tear someone a new you know what, as the old saying goes. That made a believer out of Mr. Cheap about "finishing off shots" and also showed that sometimes even black bears need a little extra killing. I think I would prefer a good rifle over anything else. NMSight
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 11:38:01 PM EDT
Pthfndr is right, better to pay attention to your surroundings. The Sierras are my back yard( and my front yard) and when I go camping with my family, our artillary is a 12ga loaded with buck and ball. There's more than bears to worry about. Raccoons, skunks, mountain lions, coyotes, meth freaks, pot growers, drunkin' injuns( sorry, sobriety challenged native Americans), and wierdos who pack shotguns on camping trips. I have had more run ins with backwoods hippies than bears. "I don't hate black people, I hate hippies!"---Eric Cartman
Link Posted: 8/28/2001 11:39:25 PM EDT
Here in Alaska many of us carry on and off duty 12 gauge shotguns. Where I work we have both Brown bears and Polar bears. Our duty shot guns are set up more then not for four leg critters the two legged. We have tub full with 00 buck,minus one round so we can select a shot. This way we can select a slug from the side saddle. The one and a quarter oz. slugges are the slugs that preform the best against bears. Other wise find a Marlin guide gun in 45-70, do not listen to those outsides who fire 300 grain bullets(yuk) buy a box of Buffalo Bore rounds with at least a 430 grain round!
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