Black Hawk Down & American Flag Patch

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Black Hawk Down & American Flag Patch

Posted: 1/18/2002 3:01:04 PM EDT

I just got out of BHD about an hour ago, fantastic movie. My question is for those that have already watched the movie or those that plan too. Look at the American Flag patches on the the mens shoulders. Why is the blue square and stars in the upper right hand corner of the flag?
Oh, and nothing is better than my wife saying ,"That rifle is exactly like yours honey.", in the middle of the crowded theater, and everyone within earshot looks at me funny. I love that!

Posted: 1/18/2002 3:08:06 PM EDT

[#1]

I was wondering that myself after looking at the pics in another thread here. That's the 1st thing I noticed looking at the pic. I would guess they are sow on patches, and the uniform designers just put them on wrong. (upside down).

-Justin

Posted: 1/18/2002 3:15:26 PM EDT

[#2]

No, they're actually produced like that, although I'm not aware of why.

Posted: 1/18/2002 3:17:34 PM EDT

[#3]

I can't remember exactly what the meaning of the reverse flag is but I do know that its intentional. My sister unit had them when they came back from Bosnia. I think it means something-like "never looking back" or "never turning your back on the enemy" - something like that. I think its worn that way overseas and then normal ones are worn at home.

Posted: 1/18/2002 3:21:16 PM EDT

[#4]

One of the actual participants in the battle was "Technical Director" for the movie.

That at least means Hollywood tried to get it right.

Posted: 1/18/2002 3:27:35 PM EDT

[#5]

Was it the same way on both sleeves? This is just a wild guess, but if not it may be for the same reason that the American flag is painted "backwards" on one side of the tail of an aircraft.

It is done that way so it looks like two sides of the same flag. If you flew a flag and looked at it "the right way", another person looking at the back side of the flag would see the field of stars on the right side of the flag.

However, when its hanging on a flagpole we don't think about it. When it is painted or sewn on, it looks a little weird.

Posted: 1/18/2002 4:56:57 PM EDT

[#6]

The flag is painted that way on aircraft as well, as if it were flying behind a pole on the front of the aircraft. You can buy the patches that way.

-Troy

Posted: 1/18/2002 5:16:51 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Oh, and nothing is better than my wife saying ,"That rifle is exactly like yours honey.", in the middle of the crowded theater, and everyone within earshot looks at me funny. I love that!

View Quote

[b]Ya Gotta Just Love That[/b] [8D]

Posted: 1/18/2002 5:22:43 PM EDT

[#8]

In the Army, we wear our unit insignia on our left shoulder. The American flag patches have to be worn on the right shoulder then. When we go somewhere we need to wear US flag patches, we had to special purchase "reverse" Us flag patches. They are reverse images of a normal flag so it looks proper when worn on the right shoulder. The one there were wearing in the movie were probably patches made for the left shoulder that were worn on the right. Or if the flags are on the left shoulders, then they are wrong. Flag should be on the right shoulder. Either way, sounds like they messed up.

Aviator [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]

Posted: 1/18/2002 5:35:28 PM EDT

[#9]

5sub,

Hows this:

Former Rangers who fought in the battle were employed as extras playing, well...Rangers.

The pilot of the Little Bird that picked up the wounded Delta Operator in the movie was also the actual pilot who picked up the real wounded Delta Operator during the battle. Several of the aircrew in the film also participated in the real action.

SFC Eversman, COL Van Arsdale and COL Mathews were there for the action and the film.

A number of others "still working" and not named were there, too.

The motion picture production had a wider range of sources open to it than Mark Bowden had for his book.

Posted: 1/18/2002 6:08:27 PM EDT

[#10]

that is the proper way to wear an American Flag on ones shoulder.
The stars are supposed to be closest to the wearers heart.

Posted: 1/18/2002 9:26:36 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
that is the proper way to wear an American Flag on ones shoulder.
The stars are supposed to be closest to the wearers heart.

View Quote

... That is the most "reasonable" reponse yet

Posted: 1/18/2002 11:20:03 PM EDT

[#12]

This question came up awhile back.

[url]http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html[/url]

Q: Why is the flag sometimes backwards on the side of airplanes, buses, and military uniforms?

A: The flag decals have the union (the blue area with the stars) on the side closer to the front of the plane. On the plane's left, the decal shows the flag with the union at the left, as usual. On the plane's right side, the union is on the right. This is done so that the flag looks as if it is blowing in the wind created by the forward movement of the ship or airplane. You can see this on cars and trucks as well. Click to see pictures of the flag decals on Air Force 1. There are two separate flag patches in the Army inventory: the normal U.S. flag replica that is worn on the left sleeve, and what is referred to as the "reversed field" flag patch, which is worn on the right sleeve.

Posted: 1/19/2002 12:09:43 AM EDT

[#13]

big bear nailed it! patches get moved over to right arm when you deploy to a combat zone. state side a lot of guys leave it there for that "been there" look. in the corps this usually only happens on flight clothing.

Posted: 1/19/2002 12:58:01 AM EDT

[#14]

As has been said, its an overseas thing. I went looking for the reg to help out a CA deputy on this issue, and even the latest version of 670-1 made no mention of the practice.
Here are a few pics from Soldiers magazine of US guys in Bosnia wearing the reversed patch:
[URL]http://www.dtic.mil/soldiers/jan1998/pdf/4bosnia.pdf[/URL]

Posted: 1/19/2002 5:11:40 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
that is the proper way to wear an American Flag on ones shoulder.
The stars are supposed to be closest to the wearers heart.

View Quote

... That is the most "reasonable" reponse yet

View Quote

Sorry guys. This doesn't hold as the Boy Scouts have always had the standard pattern flag patch on the RIGHT sleeve.

It took some time to get used to the reverse pattern on planes and such. But the reverse patch just looks "too" weird.

edited to add:

Now that I have said "No Way you're full of stuff [;)]." I guess you could very well be correct and that is the reason stated for the "new" tradition. And I am just stuck in a time warp. [BD]

Posted: 1/19/2002 6:01:03 AM EDT

[#16]

It's a combat thing.
9/94 I was loaded for bear on a C-130 headed for Haiti. I was in the 1/504th PIR of the 82nd and we were going to jump in for the party. I asked my 1SG about the flag as he had two combat jumps (Grenada, Panama) and the explanation he told me was that it showed forward momentum as in "going to battle." You don't see it on anyone's uniform who is just "overseas," but you see it on the guys who are in imminent danger (combat).
We never did jump into Haiti as Ex-President Carter talked General Cedras (sp?) into surrendering while we were about an hour and half out (ten million dollars helped him to end hostilities more than a talk with the ex-pres). I've got the patches somewhere and I suppose my son will ask me some day.
Can't wait to see the movie.

Posted: 1/19/2002 7:33:22 AM EDT

[#17]

Yes, i was told the same thing by former TFR guys on the net, the flag is that way because it is going forward.

Posted: 1/19/2002 9:49:49 AM EDT

[#18]

You guys got it right with the forward movement/parade idea.
From the Glendale Catalog:
"This reverse US flag patch should be worn on the right sleeve with the blue union in the forward position of honor as if the flag were passing in review"

Posted: 1/19/2002 10:54:50 AM EDT

[#19]

My understanding is that it is supposed to symbolize our forces advancing - if you were running with a flag on a pole, that's the position it would be in. Following this logic, the traditional way of displaying the flag, stars in the upper left hand corner, looks like as if it was retreating, if worn on a combat uniform.

Rocko

Posted: 1/20/2002 5:52:25 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
that is the proper way to wear an American Flag on ones shoulder.
The stars are supposed to be closest to the wearers heart.

View Quote

... That is the most "reasonable" reponse yet

View Quote

Sorry guys. This doesn't hold as the Boy Scouts have always had the standard pattern flag patch on the RIGHT sleeve.

It took some time to get used to the reverse pattern on planes and such. But the reverse patch just looks "too" weird.

edited to add:

Now that I have said "No Way you're full of stuff [;)]." I guess you could very well be correct and that is the reason stated for the "new" tradition. And I am just stuck in a time warp. [BD]

View Quote

Perhaps I should clarify my post. I didnt mean to imply that the "stars closer to the heart" thing was the "official" reason, simply my way of saying that the stars always go to the front no matter which sleeve you wear the patch on. (BigBear's answer IS correct by the way)
As far as the Boy Scouts wearing it the way they do,...there are alot of organizations that do that. If you look at police, and fire departments for example, you will see that some departments follow the "Union forward" rule, and some dont. At my department we wear our insignia on the left with the American Flag on the right, but it wasnt until last year they started issuing new uniforms with the correct "Union forward" reverse flag on the right shoulder.

Posted: 1/20/2002 6:00:37 AM EDT

[#21]

the blue field of stars always points forward. if the flag is worn on the left shoulder below the unit patch it would look normal. if its on the right, its reversed. when someone has a combat patch on the right shoulder, its goes below that. at least thats how we wore them in bosnia. justin

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Black Hawk Down & American Flag Patch

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