Bill Ruger Senior's Involvement with the AWB

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bill Ruger Senior's Involvement with the AWB (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 12/24/2005 10:49:57 PM EDT

Sometime last yr I recall a website that stated he had a lot to do with the AWB's creation. May have only been at a state/cali level of participation. Anyone else remember this?

Posted: 12/24/2005 10:55:00 PM EDT

[#1]

The story I heard is that he had a hand in "suggesting" certain things for the AWB that would prevent his beloved Mini-14 form being amongst the banned firearms. He also suggested a >15 round magazine ban, which was accepted, then changed to ten rounds.

That's what I heard. I have no sources to cite. YMMV.

Posted: 12/24/2005 11:22:06 PM EDT

[#2]

Duh. I just Googled Bill Ruger Senior and it came up. I am amazed the NRA honored him considering the fingerprints he left on the AWB. I guess a million dollar donation helps people wipe the taste of shit off their nose.

Posted: 12/25/2005 1:39:33 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Duh. I just Googled Bill Ruger Senior and it came up. I am amazed the NRA honored him considering the fingerprints he left on the AWB. I guess a million dollar donation helps people wipe the taste of shit off their nose.

You should be on your knees thanking Bill Ruger. He fought very hard against the ban. The fact of the matter is, the ban was going to happen with or without him. What he did was save what little there was to save. You were lucky to have 10 round mags.

Your misguided effort would be better suited for that POS glock and their basllistic finger printing of EVERY firearm they produce.

Posted: 12/25/2005 2:36:51 AM EDT

[#4]

You work for Ruger?

Posted: 12/25/2005 2:51:15 AM EDT

[#5]

He's dead.
So is the AWB.

Posted: 12/25/2005 2:54:16 AM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 12/25/2005 3:14:54 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
He's dead.
So is the AWB.

+1
And he realized the error of his ways (along with giving a very large donation to the NRA as pentance).

Kharn

Posted: 12/25/2005 5:06:14 AM EDT

[#8]

ahhh
ruger mini 14's are junk. who cares?

Posted: 12/25/2005 5:10:23 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
He's dead.
So is the AWB.
+1
And he realized the error of his ways (along with giving a very large donation to the NRA as pentance).

Kharn

I think that's the way it went. And that's also why the NRA memorializes him, but recognizing his errors and trying to make it right as best he could.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's most accurate, I think.

Posted: 12/25/2005 6:01:00 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Duh. I just Googled Bill Ruger Senior and it came up. I am amazed the NRA honored him considering the fingerprints he left on the AWB. I guess a million dollar donation helps people wipe the taste of shit off their nose.

You should be on your knees thanking Bill Ruger. He fought very hard against the ban. The fact of the matter is, the ban was going to happen with or without him. What he did was save what little there was to save. You were lucky to have 10 round mags.

Your misguided effort would be better suited for that POS glock and their basllistic finger printing of EVERY firearm they produce.

I'm on my knees thanking the LORD that Ruger is dead! He was one of the most treacherous, two-faced SOBs the world has ever known. I hope he is burning in the ninth level of hell.
Fought hard against the ban my ass! He saved his own product, then threw gun owners a bone with contributions to the NRA. Like I said, a two-faced lying SOB. Burn old fool, BURN!

Posted: 12/25/2005 7:08:19 AM EDT

[#11]

To his credit, if it weren't for Ruger's 10/22, there would be a lot fewer shooters out there, and many of us will be left with only a .38 revolver.

Posted: 12/25/2005 7:10:17 AM EDT

[#12]

If Ruger had really come around, then they would have sold a folding stock mini-14s and high caps to the public.

Posted: 12/25/2005 7:13:17 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Duh. I just Googled Bill Ruger Senior and it came up. I am amazed the NRA honored him considering the fingerprints he left on the AWB. I guess a million dollar donation helps people wipe the taste of shit off their nose.

You should be on your knees thanking Bill Ruger. He fought very hard against the ban. The fact of the matter is, the ban was going to happen with or without him. What he did was save what little there was to save. You were lucky to have 10 round mags.

Your misguided effort would be better suited for that POS glock and their basllistic finger printing of EVERY firearm they produce.

I'm on my knees thanking the LORD that Ruger is dead! He was one of the most treacherous, two-faced SOBs the world has ever known. I hope he is burning in the ninth level of hell.
Fought hard against the ban my ass! He saved his own product, then threw gun owners a bone with contributions to the NRA. Like I said, a two-faced lying SOB. Burn old fool, BURN!

+1

Posted: 12/25/2005 7:41:08 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Duh. I just Googled Bill Ruger Senior and it came up. I am amazed the NRA honored him considering the fingerprints he left on the AWB. I guess a million dollar donation helps people wipe the taste of shit off their nose.

You should be on your knees thanking Bill Ruger. He fought very hard against the ban. The fact of the matter is, the ban was going to happen with or without him. What he did was save what little there was to save. You were lucky to have 10 round mags.

Your misguided effort would be better suited for that POS glock and their basllistic finger printing of EVERY firearm they produce.

I'm on my knees thanking the LORD that Ruger is dead! He was one of the most treacherous, two-faced SOBs the world has ever known. I hope he is burning in the ninth level of hell.
Fought hard against the ban my ass! He saved his own product, then threw gun owners a bone with contributions to the NRA. Like I said, a two-faced lying SOB. Burn old fool, BURN!

How about ANYTHING documenting all this bullshit, anything FACTUAL, not the opinion of one particular writer. Show us.

The Mini never came close to fitting the parameters of the ban. That ridiculous statement has as much validity as saying the ban affected the M1 Garand.

As for the "Mini is a piece of shit" statements, more "I heard............" bullshit.

Do you own Glocks or Smith and Wessons?

Posted: 12/25/2005 7:41:49 AM EDT

[#15]

Ruger's contribution was suggesting a magazine cap from 30 rounds to 15 because it wouldn't hurt his company. Instead it became a 10 round cap.
Never give an inch to appease they'll take a mile.

Posted: 12/25/2005 7:48:36 AM EDT

[#16]

The 10/22 and the MKI/II have been used to introduce more new shooters than any other firearm I can think of.

If you boycott Ruger then you better boycott Clot, Smith and Wesson, Glock and Olympic Arms to name a few.

Posted: 12/25/2005 7:49:09 AM EDT

[#17]

Posted: 12/25/2005 7:53:15 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Duh. I just Googled Bill Ruger Senior and it came up. I am amazed the NRA honored him considering the fingerprints he left on the AWB. I guess a million dollar donation helps people wipe the taste of shit off their nose.

You should be on your knees thanking Bill Ruger. He fought very hard against the ban. The fact of the matter is, the ban was going to happen with or without him. What he did was save what little there was to save. You were lucky to have 10 round mags.

Your misguided effort would be better suited for that POS glock and their basllistic finger printing of EVERY firearm they produce.

I'm on my knees thanking the LORD that Ruger is dead! He was one of the most treacherous, two-faced SOBs the world has ever known. I hope he is burning in the ninth level of hell.
Fought hard against the ban my ass! He saved his own product, then threw gun owners a bone with contributions to the NRA. Like I said, a two-faced lying SOB. Burn old fool, BURN!

How about ANYTHING documenting all this bullshit, anything FACTUAL, not the opinion of one particular writer. Show us.

The Mini never came close to fitting the parameters of the ban. That ridiculous statement has as much validity as saying the ban affected the M1 Garand.

As for the "Mini is a piece of shit" statements, more "I heard............" bullshit.

Do you own Glocks or Smith and Wessons?

Aggreed, on all counts.
Where is the proof.
Perhaps Mr. Ruger thought he could be of more help to us within enemy ranks

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:00:03 AM EDT

[#19]

so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:13:53 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

I'd love to hear the Ruger apologists defend that one.

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:26:41 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

I'd love to hear the Ruger apologists defend that one.

Well for one thing they dont even make 30 round mags, havent in almost 15 years. They do make 20's and you can buy them, just not directly from Ruger, which is normal, how many people want to pay more to buy a mag from a firearms company. The other point about "tactical" mini 14's, I've wondered the same thing myself.

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:30:10 AM EDT

[#22]

Whatever. Ruger was an ass. F him.

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:33:02 AM EDT

[#23]

My experience is that I obtained a Ruger Mini14GB, it wouldn't work right so I called the factory, and they wouldn't fix it unless I provided LE creds. Doesn't make sense, as I've heard of AC556 owners sending their MG's back for factory repair?

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:34:11 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

I'd love to hear the Ruger apologists defend that one.

[ruger]Evil assault weapons are a niche market, outside of the mainstream of normal gunowners.[/ruger]

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:45:32 AM EDT

[#25]

Like someone said, Ruger is dead, so is the AWB.

What politics happened to get what the AWB is only known to those who did the "last minute" dealings.

Let us be thankfull it expired. And we have to be VERY VILIGANT that one does not replace it ANY TIME in the NEAR FUTURE!

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:50:50 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

I'd love to hear the Ruger apologists defend that one.

They are not known for rational thought- it will sound like "You can buy 20rnd mini-14 magazines through a network of dealers, but the company actually intended you not to own them, but you can get them, but no other company will sell you large mags, ok so Bushmaster, Armalite do... What the heck, people buy Colt stuff and Colt mocks'em"

Posted: 12/25/2005 8:54:49 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
What politics happened to get what the AWB is only known to those who did the "last minute" dealings.

Let us be thankfull it expired. And we have to be VERY VILIGANT that one does not replace it ANY TIME in the NEAR FUTURE!

But there vestiges of the federal AWB, since the anti-gunners are not making too much headway on the federal level, they have switched tactics and concentrated on the local level, there are vestigages of the fed AWB imlemented in a few states.

Posted: 12/25/2005 9:09:57 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

I'd love to hear the Ruger apologists defend that one.

They are not known for rational thought- it will sound like "You can buy 20rnd mini-14 magazines through a network of dealers, but the company actually intended you not to own them, but you can get them, but no other company will sell you large mags, ok so Bushmaster, Armalite do... What the heck, people buy Colt stuff and Colt mocks'em"

Savage doesn't make more than 5 round mags, nor does Remington, etc. What does that have to do with it.

You don't like their product or policies, don't buy the product, but this bullshit about the AWB is just that, pure bullshit.

As asked, how Glocks do you own?

Posted: 12/25/2005 9:11:53 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Whatever. Ruger was an ass. F him.

Oh, you knew him personally, huh?

How many Glocks to YOU own?

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:00:34 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

I'd love to hear the Ruger apologists defend that one.

They are not known for rational thought- it will sound like "You can buy 20rnd mini-14 magazines through a network of dealers, but the company actually intended you not to own them, but you can get them, but no other company will sell you large mags, ok so Bushmaster, Armalite do... What the heck, people buy Colt stuff and Colt mocks'em"

Savage doesn't make more than 5 round mags, nor does Remington, etc. What does that have to do with it.

You don't like their product or policies, don't buy the product, but this bullshit about the AWB is just that, pure bullshit.

As asked, how Glocks do you own?

Remington does make >5 round capacity magazines- for a .22 rifle

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:06:27 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

I'd love to hear the Ruger apologists defend that one.

Well for one thing they dont even make 30 round mags, havent in almost 15 years. They do make 20's and you can buy them, just not directly from Ruger, which is normal, how many people want to pay more to buy a mag from a firearms company. The other point about "tactical" mini 14's, I've wondered the same thing myself.

Bullshit. If they do not list their higher capacity magazines in their general catalog, then they do NOT intend to sell them to the general public. That they are obtainable in some way is besides the point.

Ruger does not consider certain things to be "appropriate" for non-LEO ownership, and for that they will never see one cent from me. I like their shotguns and their bolt action rifles, but I can buy equally as good or better replacements from other gunmakers who do not share their attitude.

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:07:57 AM EDT

[#32]

They are a publicly held gun company. Their management is trying to please stockholders.

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:13:49 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
If they do not list their higher capacity magazines in their general catalog, then they do NOT intend to sell them to the general public. That they are obtainable in some way is besides the point.

Describes Colt to a "T".

MODEL - MT6400C
CAPACITY - 9 Rounds
SPECIAL FEATURES - Non-retractable Buttstock

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:17:22 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

I'd love to hear the Ruger apologists defend that one.

Well for one thing they dont even make 30 round mags, havent in almost 15 years. They do make 20's and you can buy them, just not directly from Ruger, which is normal, how many people want to pay more to buy a mag from a firearms company. The other point about "tactical" mini 14's, I've wondered the same thing myself.

Bullshit. If they do not list their higher capacity magazines in their general catalog, then they do NOT intend to sell them to the general public. That they are obtainable in some way is besides the point.

Ruger does not consider certain things to be "appropriate" for non-LEO ownership, and for that they will never see one cent from me. I like their shotguns and their bolt action rifles, but I can buy equally as good or better replacements from other gunmakers who do not share their attitude.

Honestly I could care less about the awb now that its dead, Bill Ruger Sr is also dead. The more people who say Ruger is an asshole and that they wont buy his guns, that just means more good guns that I, and others who dont have a stick up there ass about Ruger, have a chance to buy. I take it since you and others seem to care so much about this issue, that you dont any firearms made by Glock, Smith&Wesson, COLT especially, H&K, and probably some others im forgetting.

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:24:03 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
you dont any firearms made by Glock, Smith&Wesson, COLT especially, H&K, and probably some others im forgetting.

Glock: none

Colt: none

HK: none

S&W: yes, and it was a gift. Besides, S&W has publicly reformed itself and I will reward them with more of my money.

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:31:43 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
you dont any firearms made by Glock, Smith&Wesson, COLT especially, H&K, and probably some others im forgetting.

No Glocks or H&Ks. The S&W and Colts I own (even one Ruger) were all purchased at least two decades ago.

Eddie

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:40:34 AM EDT

[#37]

So what was S&W's offence?
I did notice that some of their pistols will not accept a "high capacity" mag, Is that it?

Posted: 12/25/2005 10:55:20 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Whatever. Ruger was an ass. F him.

Oh, you knew him personally, huh?

How many Glocks to YOU own?

what did Glock do? seriously curious, not trying to start an arguement.

Posted: 12/25/2005 11:39:05 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
So what was S&W's offence?
I did notice that some of their pistols will not accept a "high capacity" mag, Is that it?

Huh? Some of their firearms are built around a single stack magazine, apparently to make the weapon as small as possible. -think CCW friendly-

They entered into a "smart weapons" design program under the Clinton Administration.

Posted: 12/25/2005 11:52:43 AM EDT

[#40]

Bill Ruger was an early component of the mag ban- over 15 rnders would be banned from possession, as well as manufacture.

Here's some info:

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/papabill.html

Here's some quotes:

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."
"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."

He's dead now. The company attempts to stop the sale of 20 rnd mini 14 mags to civilians even now, though it is legal.

Posted: 12/25/2005 12:07:24 PM EDT

[#41]

tag

Posted: 12/25/2005 12:11:42 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Posted: 12/25/2005 12:14:33 PM EDT

[#43]

NOBODY will live long enough to see me own any Ruger product.

Bill Ruger...with friends like him, we don't need any enemies!

CJ

Posted: 12/25/2005 2:35:36 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whatever. Ruger was an ass. F him.

Oh, you knew him personally, huh?

How many Glocks to YOU own?

what did Glock do? seriously curious, not trying to start an arguement.

Yeah, seriously. Ballistic fingerprinting? All that I'm aware of is the two casings that I throw away when I open the case

Posted: 12/25/2005 3:10:01 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
so how about the fact now that Ruger (the company) is not making any nice black tactical Mini 14s, and is not selling 30 round magazines to civillians?

"tactical" and "mini 14" in the same sentence, that's great.

Posted: 12/25/2005 3:36:53 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Bill Ruger was an early component of the mag ban- over 15 rnders would be banned from possession, as well as manufacture.

Here's some info:

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/papabill.html

Here's some quotes:

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."
"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."

He's dead now. The company attempts to stop the sale of 20 rnd mini 14 mags to civilians even now, though it is legal.

It really chaps my hide when I see someone defending this two-face lying SOB.
He was as much pro-gun as was Klinton. Burn in HELL William B. Ruger!

Posted: 12/31/2005 6:10:38 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
you dont any firearms made by Glock, Smith&Wesson, COLT especially, H&K, and probably some others im forgetting.

Glock: none

Colt: none

HK: none

S&W: yes, and it was a gift. Besides, S&W has publicly reformed itself and I will reward them with more of my money.

S&W has NOT gone to court to get the HUD agreement nullified. Now is the time to do that instead of waiting for an anti-gun administration.

Before someone says they "renounced" the agreement, go read the damn thing, especially the last paragraph. Besides, you can't buy a company and simply renounce any obligations that company has.

Here is the HUD agreement:

AGREEMENT BETWEEN SMITH & WESSON AND
THE DEPARTMENTS OF THE TREASURY AND HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT,
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND STATES
SUMMARY OF TERMS
Preamble: The city, state, county and federal parties agree to dismiss the parties from the pending suits and refrain from filing suits against the manufacturer parties based on an equivalent cause of action.
SAFETY AND DESIGN
All handguns must meet the following safety and design standards:
• Second "hidden" serial number, to prevent criminals from obliterating serial numbers.
• External locking device sold with all guns within 60 days.
• Internal locking device on all guns within 24 months.
• Smart Guns -- Authorized User Technology.
o Manufacturers commit 2% of annual firearms revenues to the development of authorized user technology.
o Within 36 months, authorized user technology will be included in all new firearm models, with the exception of curios and collectors’ firearms.
o If top eight manufacturers agree, authorized user technology will be included in all new firearms.
• Child Safety. Within 12 months, handguns will be designed so they cannot be readily operated by a child under 6.
• Performance test. All firearms will be subject to a performance test to ensure safety and quality.
• Drop test. All firearms will be subject to a test to ensure they do not fire when dropped.
All pistols must meet the following additional requirements:
• Safety device. Positive manually operated safety device.
• Magazine disconnectors must be available on all pistols to customers who desire the feature, within 12 months.
• Chamber load indicators on all pistols, showing whether the pistol is loaded, within 12 months.
• Large capacity magazines. New firearm designs will not be able to accept large-capacity magazines that were manufactured prior to September 1994. (Manufacture of such magazines has been prohibited since that date.)
Law enforcement and military exception. If law enforcement agencies or the military certify the need, exceptions to these requirements may be made. Manufacturers will ask that these guns not be resold to the civilian market.
Warnings about safe storage and handling included with all firearms within six months.
Illegal firearms. Manufacturers will not sell firearms that can readily be converted into fully automatic weapons or that are resistant to fingerprints.

SALES AND DISTRIBUTION
Code of Conduct. The manufacturers will sell only to authorized dealers and distributors and allow their authorized distributors to sell only to authorized dealers. Authorized dealers and distributors will agree to a code of conduct. If manufacturers receive notice of a violation by an authorized dealer or distributor, they will take action against the dealer or distributor, including termination of sales to the dealer or distributor. The Oversight Commission will review such actions and have authority to require termination or suspension if warranted.
The code of conduct will require authorized dealers and distributors to:
• Gun shows: make no gun show sales unless all sales at the gun show are completed only after a background check.
• Brady checks: wait as long as necessary for a completed Brady check showing that the purchaser is not a felon or otherwise prohibited before selling a gun to the purchaser.
• Safety training for purchasers: transfer firearms only to individuals who have passed certified safety course or exam and demonstrate to purchasers how to use all safety devices and how to load, unload, and safely store the firearm before completing the sale.
• Multiple handgun sales: all purchasers of multiple handguns to take only one handgun from the store on the day of sale, at which point a multiple sales report will be filed with ATF. The remainder of the guns can only be collected after 14 days.
• Employee training: require all employees to attend ATF-approved training and to pass a exam on firearms laws, straw purchasers, illegal trafficking indicators, and gun safety.
• Insurance: carry liability insurance where available, with a minimum coverage of $1 million for each incident.
• Inventory control: maintain an electronic inventory tracking plan within 24 months
• Security: implement a security plan for securing firearms.
• Child access: require persons under 18 to be accompanied by adults in gun stores or gun sections of stores.
• Weapons attractive to criminals: not sell large capacity magazines or semiautomatic assault weapons.
• Compliance: provide law enforcement, government regulators, and the Oversight Commission established in this Agreement with access to documents necessary to determine compliance; cooperate fully in the Agreement’s Oversight mechanism.
• Crime gun traces: maintain an electronic record of all ATF trace requests and report trace requests to manufacturers.
• Indicted dealers: forgo firearms sales to licensed dealers known to be under indictment.
• Straw purchasers: not to make sales to straw purchasers.
Manufacturer commitments. Manufacturers will:
• Provide quarterly sales data to ATF.
• Not market guns in any manner designed to appeal to juveniles or criminals.
• Refrain from selling any modified/sporterized semi-automatic pistol of type that cannot be imported into U.S.
• Reaffirm policy of not placing advertisements in vicinity of schools, high crime zones, and public housing.
• Implement a security plan for securing firearms.
• Designate an officer to ensure compliance with the Agreement.
Corporate responsibility for crime gun traces. If an authorized dealer or distributor has a disproportionate number of crime guns traced to it within three years of sale, the manufacturers will take action, including possible termination or suspension, against the dealer or distributor. The Oversight Commission will review such actions and have authority to require termination or suspension if warranted.
Oversight Commission will be established and empowered to oversee implementation of the Agreement. The Commission will have five members selected as follows: one by manufacturers; two by city and county parties; one by state parties; one by ATF. The Commission’s powers will include the authority to review compliance with the design and safety requirements, review the safety and training program for dealer and distributor employees, review manufacturer actions against dealers or distributors that violate the Agreement or have a disproportionate number of crime gun traces, and require suspension or termination if warranted.
Role of ATF. To the extent consistent with law, ATF will work with manufacturers and the Oversight Commission to assist them in meeting obligations under the Agreement. ATF will notify the Oversight Commission of certain violations of the Agreement by distributors and dealers if it uncovers such violations.
Ballistics Imaging. Within six months, if technologically available, manufacturers will fire all firearms before sale and will enter the digital image of the casings in a system compatible with the National Integrated Ballistics Identification Network and accessible to ATF. This will enable law enforcement to trace crime guns when only the bullets or casings are recovered.
Access 2000. Manufacturers shall participate in ATF’s Access 2000 program, which establishes electronic links with ATF and enables high-speed tracing of crime guns.
Legislation. The parties will work together to support legislative efforts to reduce firearm misuse and the development of authorized user technology.
Education trust fund. Upon resolution of all current city, state, and county lawsuits, manufacturers will dedicate 1% of overall firearms revenues to an education trust fund.
Most favored entity. If other manufacturers enter agreements with more expansive design and distribution reforms, and those manufacturers, along with the manufacturer parties to this Agreement, account for fifty percent or more of United States handgun sales, the manufacturer parties to this Agreement will agree to abide by the same reforms.
Enforcement. The Agreement will be entered into and enforceable as a court order and as a contract.

So, to say that S&W has "reformed" is not only incorrect, it is wishful thinking.

Posted: 12/31/2005 6:11:44 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
So what was S&W's offence?
I did notice that some of their pistols will not accept a "high capacity" mag, Is that it?

Read the agreement below. I can't believe you never heard of that.

Posted: 12/31/2005 6:14:01 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Bill Ruger was an early component of the mag ban- over 15 rnders would be banned from possession, as well as manufacture.

Here's some info:

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/papabill.html

Here's some quotes:

"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."
"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."

He's dead now. The company attempts to stop the sale of 20 rnd mini 14 mags to civilians even now, though it is legal.

The same tired article by Neal Knox that everyone trots out as their proof. Where is some REAL, documented evidence?

Posted: 12/31/2005 6:18:24 AM EDT

[#50]

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Whatever. Ruger was an ass. F him.

Oh, you knew him personally, huh?

How many Glocks to YOU own?

what did Glock do? seriously curious, not trying to start an arguement.

Today computers can do just that. A computer can't make the ultimate call, but they can narrow the work down to a point where manual examination is feasible. ATF is now making this computer technology available to police authorities around the country through the National Integrated Ballistics Identification Network (NIBIN). This network is a joint effort between ATF and the FBI to provide the latest technology to our state and local partners. Under this arrangement ATF will be responsible for the ballistics technology and the FBI will provide the computer network that will join the state and local systems together. Currently this provides a valuable tool for law enforcement authorities that will allow us to associate a suspect or a firearm with seemingly unrelated crimes. The future of this technology offers even greater potential. ATF is currently conducting a pilot project with Glock, wherein they will capture digital image a test fire shell casing for handgun they manufacture. That image will be associated with the serial number of the firearm in a computer database. Later if a shell casing is recovered at a crime scene it could be compared against the Glock database. This comparison could lead to the identification of the exact weapon that fired the round. Without ever recovering a firearm ATF could then trace the weapon used in the crime.

www.atf.gov/press/speech/fy00/040700ggdsymposium.htm

The usual response to this is:

We all know that BF doesn't work..........etc

Doesn't matter, they are voluntarily doing it at the FEDERAL level, not just the states that require it.

Some say that I always trot this and the S&W thing out. Yes I do. Partly to show the hypocrisy of some, partly to show DOCUMENTED evidence of what these 2 companies are doing in response to the fact that the Ruger bashers have yet to do the same........it's always the Neal Knox article or "I heard somewhere...............", just like the originator of this thread.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bill Ruger Senior's Involvement with the AWB (Page 1 of 2)

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