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Posted: 11/5/2009 9:02:07 AM EST
Bicycle ticket could cost Santa Ana student $400
November 4th, 2009, 5:00 am · posted by Teri Sforza, Register staff writer

The new semester had just begun. Oswald Muniz Sanchez was riding his bike to biology class at Santa Ana College, earphones in both ears, listening to the dulcet tones of National Public Radio.

Sanchez saw no cars at the intersection of Washington and Freeman streets, so he buzzed through the stop sign, as cyclists so often do. That’s when he saw the Santa Ana policeman, half-way up the side street.

Moments later, sirens blaring and lights flashing, Sanchez was pulled over. Santa Ana police Officer Berg told him to sit on the curb. How are you going to hear someone honking at you with earphones on? the officer asked. I heard you, Sanchez said. What music were you listening to? the officer asked. It was just the news, Sanchez said. If you were in your car, would you have stopped? Yes, Sanchez said. Are you going to give me a warning? No, the offficer said. I’m going to cite you for running a stop sign.

The ticket was yellow, just like you’d get while driving a car. “Schwinn,” it says in the spot for “Year of Vehicle” and “Make.” And Sanchez was cited for violating two parts of the California Vehicle Code:

•Section 22450(a): Failure to stop at stop sign;
•and Section 27400: Wearing head set or earplugs.
Infraction, the ticket said. So when the courtesy notice landed in his mailbox from the Orange County Superior Court, Sanchez nearly choked: “Bail amount: $397.”


For riding his bike?! This offended the 26-year-old’s sense of fair play. (Sanchez had, after all, once registered to vote as a Libertarian.)

Now, Sanchez is not quite a traffic choir boy. He’s had several violations over the past decade - including a DUI in 2002 and a property damage hit-and-run in 2004, for which he paid restitution and did community service. But he was much younger then. His most recent traffic faux pas was for pulling a U-turn across a double-yellow line: “I was on my way from school to work and wanted to get some food,” he said somewhat sheepishly. “That wound up being a $200 Jamba Juice.”

That a bicycle infraction could cost more than a moving-violation-in-a-car ticket seems, well, odd. We’re waiting to hear from the Orange County Superior Court on how it arrives at fines for such ticket; the court’s 2009 Bail Schedule doesn’t shed much light on how the figure could get close to $400.

Bulletin, kids: Bicycles riders on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers and are subject to the same rules and regulations as any other vehicle on the road, the good California Department of Motor Vehicles reminds us. Each year in California, more than 100 people are killed, and hundreds of thousands more are injured in bicycle collisions.

“I suppose going through a stop sign on a bike is something that a lot of people do, and they’re not aware of the violation,” said SAPD Commander Doug McGeachy.“But stop signs apply to cyclists as well as motorists. Same thing with the earphones. You can have one, but you can’t have two.

“We do on occasion have serious and fatal traffic collisions involving bicycles. Officers have a lot of discretion in what they choose to enforce and not enforce - if they see something that’s particularly unsafe, they’re more likely to enforce. I don’t know if this is common, but it’s a violation.”

Sanchez was to appear in court today, but got an extension until Dec. 21 so he can research his situation and figure out how to proceed.

He’s a returning student at Santa Ana College, studying environmental science. He pays his way by working as a teaching assistant when those spots are available, and by installing office furniture. “I ride my bike to school whenever I don’t have a big load of books,” Sanchez said. “I’m trying to be environmentally friendly.”

We’ll keep you posted. In the meantime, bicyclists, stop for those stop signs - and don’t cross any double yellow lines.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:03:03 AM EST
Shit, I do this on a daily basis too.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:04:47 AM EST
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:07:04 AM EST
Good.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:08:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Shit, I do this on a daily basis too.


You run stop signs on a daily basis?

Cool
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:09:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:12:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


+1
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:12:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By RDP:
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Shit, I do this on a daily basis too.


You run stop signs on a daily basis?

Cool


I did when I biked to class in college, too

But I remembered to keep the 11th commandment.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:13:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?


Traffic laws always apply. I hate this phrase but it really is for their safety. Bicyclists that ignore traffic laws really iritate me. It's really bad in college towns.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:14:23 AM EST
I don't have a problem with the citation.

In California, the clerk can explain the bail schedule. The Legislature, in its infinite wisdom, does not have a precise bail schedule. Oh no! There are surcharges, additions, special program fees and an assortment of other $ items that are added in.

When you have some serious, prior matters dismissed as having happened earlier in a young life, ask yourself a couple of questions:

1. would you hire this guy?
2. would you want your daughter to go out with him.

Same tune, different day-

Citee: "Officer, there was no one there so I ran the light(stop sign) or sped."
Officer: "Gee, I was there. " Tee hee!
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:16:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?

The law applies to them, too.

I fucking hate bicyclists that ride like jackasses, cutting off traffic, and running stop signs/lights. They NEED to be ticketed, and SHOULD be ticketed.

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:18:48 AM EST
On bikes I slow down for stop signs but if there are no other vehicles I don't stop completely. I spend a lot more time in the intersection if I have to start from a full stop.

That said, i've never been ticketed for exceeding the speed limit on a bike even though I've done it a good number of times.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:35:10 AM EST
waive the earplug charge... that's retarded to apply to bikes.

keep the running the stopsign charge. if you want to drive on the road like a car, stop at stopsigns like a car
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:45:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
waive the earplug charge... that's retarded to apply to bikes.


Yeah, bicyclists don't need to hear anything. Least of all somebody honking to let them know there's about to be a problem.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:46:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By LoBrau:
Originally Posted By RDP:
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Shit, I do this on a daily basis too.


You run stop signs on a daily basis?

Cool


I did when I biked to class in college, too

But I remembered to keep the 11th commandment.

Well, I always slow to a crawl, but I never actually "stop."
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:48:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By jbombelli:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?

The law applies to them, too.

I fucking hate bicyclists that ride like jackasses, cutting off traffic, and running stop signs/lights. They NEED to be ticketed, and SHOULD be ticketed.



+1.

My question was more to this. If you are subject to MV laws, don't you need a drivers license? If you're under 16, how do you get one of those? And if you can't, how can you legally be held liable to standards that the law prohibits you from meeting?
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:49:21 AM EST
I agree with the ticket, but don't agree with the fine. The fine seems excessive just like most moving violations where it's nothing to do with public safety but all about revenue.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:49:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.

oh, so riding a bike is a privilege now too?
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:50:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?
What stops them?

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:52:21 AM EST
The fine is harsh, but cyclists need to obey the laws just like cars do, for everybody's safety. I have nothing against bikes on the street, but I do have an issue with any cyclist or driver breaking the law and then saying they don't deserve the punishment.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:54:29 AM EST



Link Posted: 11/5/2009 9:56:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:

Originally Posted By LoBrau:
Originally Posted By RDP:
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Shit, I do this on a daily basis too.


You run stop signs on a daily basis?

Cool


I did when I biked to class in college, too

But I remembered to keep the 11th commandment.

Well, I always slow to a crawl, but I never actually "stop."


The following only applied to 4-way stop intersections, I would stop entirely for 2-ways: I would slow enough that if I saw a car reach the intersection before me I would be able to stop. Once I got to the point where even if I saw a car coming I would be able to get through the intersection while it was stopping for its own stop sign, I'd go. Never had a problem. I did, however, have plenty of problems with dumb motherfucking drivers who had zero observational abilities, such as the cop who passed me going up a hill while he was talking on his cell phone, just to turn right DIRECTLY in front of me without signaling, forcing me to lock up front and rear to keep from plowing into the trunk of his cruiser. Or the dumb bitch who decided to parallel park nose-in in the parking spot my bike and I were occupying at the time. She couldn't have NOT seen me, and I wound up having to jump it onto the sidewalk to keep from getting creamed, almost hitting a pedestrian myself.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:00:11 AM EST
When I lived in CA back in the 90s I was riding my bike and got pulled over by a Foster City cop for having both my ears covered while riding my bike.

He gave me a warning and let me go.

A buddy of mine got a BUI (bicycling under the influence) in Chico, CA and it cost him-including lost days wages-$560.

Ironically, he was riding the bike because he KNEW he was way too drunk to drive.

Stupidly, he crashed into a fire hydrant right in front of two Chico cops.

Cops in towns with colleges put up with little or NO shit.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:01:15 AM EST
I ride my bike to class everyday. Two days ago I saw a cop pull over two bikers for running a stop sign in a 10 minute time span.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:01:24 AM EST
I ride my bike to class everyday. Two days ago I saw a cop pull over two bikers for running a stop sign in a 10 minute time span.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:07:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By FTAggie:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?


Traffic laws always apply. I hate this phrase but it really is for their safety. Bicyclists that ignore traffic laws really iritate me. It's really bad in college towns.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


If I have to stop in a car or on a motorcycle, what the fuck is the difference between that and on a bicycle.
These cyclist think they're hot shit because they're saving the fucking earth and can do what they want because they're green. I'm glad the cop ticketed him, just as much as if I'd blatantly blown through a stop sign or red light in my truck. Almost all driver handbooks say cyclist MUST obey traffic laws.
I feel strongly about this as I've had to dodge bikers in my town. I used to have a grey, asphalt colored car. A quick glance and you're overlooked, but yet YOU have to dodge the biker or risk getting rear-ended by slamming on the brakes to save their poor little life.
If you break the law, risk the ticket. Don't be a bitch when you get one.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:09:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.

What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?

Them too.

I wish they'd start ticketing all of the folks around here that ride on the sidewalk or on the left side of the road.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:34:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.

oh, so riding a bike is a privilege now too?


You can't have your ability to ride a bike revoked.

So, it isn't a privilege
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:38:43 AM EST
why would you ever bother stopping for the cop in the first place? You know he's gonna be a dick if he's pulling over a bicycle. Running stop signs on a bicycle does not equal danger necessarily. Common sense
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:39:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 10:43:01 AM EST by Kharn]
Having lived on a college campus where bikers would switch between pedestrian and automobile rules of the road whenever it benefited them, I would say that $397's a good start.

One old prof loved to ride his tricycle (not a kids toy, this thing had gears and full-size bike tires) around on the main walking paths of campus and slap girls on the ass if they didnt get out of his way fast enough. For some reason, he never slapped guys on the ass.

Kharn
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:40:26 AM EST
I have a friend who got a speeding ticket on a bicycle, 37 in 25
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:44:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By razor11056:
why would you ever bother stopping for the cop in the first place? You know he's gonna be a dick if he's pulling over a bicycle. Running stop signs on a bicycle does not equal danger necessarily. Common sense


You sir are a smart one. Try not stopping for the police and see how that goes for you. You will enjoy the experience.

I routinely see 30-40 yr old men riding bikes. For some reason, they all seem to be dopers and missing some teeth. An adult on a BMX is another clue of some issues. Sure, good people like to ride, but they are usually easy to differ from the criminal riding the pink trashed mountain bike, through a residentail neighborhood at 0200.

Using your logic, bikes don't need to stop at stop signs. Do us all a favor, if you have children, please get some common sense before you teach them about bike safety or at least buy the Gerber insurance so you can cover their funeral.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:47:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kharn:
Having lived on a college campus where bikers would switch between pedestrian and automobile rules of the road whenever it benefited them, I would say that $397's a good start.

Bingo. I've never seen a cyclist around here continue to behave as a vehicle when confronted by a traffic control device.

"Share the road" means you act in a consistent and predictable manner in accordance with traffic laws. If that means you cook at traffic lights in the summer then so be it.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:48:18 AM EST
I know someone in college who got a DUI from riding a bike.

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:49:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


/thread
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:51:36 AM EST
Going to college does not make a person smarter.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:52:20 AM EST
I'm a bike, I'm a bike, I'm a pedestrian, I'm a car, I'm a car.

Pick one already.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:54:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 10:56:47 AM EST by razor11056]

Originally Posted By RDP:
Originally Posted By razor11056:
why would you ever bother stopping for the cop in the first place? You know he's gonna be a dick if he's pulling over a bicycle. Running stop signs on a bicycle does not equal danger necessarily. Common sense


You sir are a smart one. Try not stopping for the police and see how that goes for you. You will enjoy the experience.

I routinely see 30-40 yr old men riding bikes. For some reason, they all seem to be dopers and missing some teeth. An adult on a BMX is another clue of some issues. Sure, good people like to ride, but they are usually easy to differ from the criminal riding the pink trashed mountain bike, through a residentail neighborhood at 0200.

Using your logic, bikes don't need to stop at stop signs. Do us all a favor, if you have children, please get some common sense before you teach them about bike safety or at least buy the Gerber insurance so you can cover their funeral.

Sometimes you can clearly identify an intersection is totally clear. I ain't coming to a stop on a bicycle. And no you ain't gonna catch me either. Cars have a hard time going through back yards and wooded areas. (EDIT) This is a "hypothetical." I would never run from police. Or run a stop sign. I MIGHT "not notice" a cop pursuing me as I ride away on my merry way.

And I'm not talking about children riding around in the streets willy nilly. No one would advocate that children should just ride in the streets and not pay attention. Uptight much?
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 10:55:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:02:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By razor11056:
why would you ever bother stopping for the cop in the first place?


To avoid the bicycle PIT manuever. Also known as Door checking. You can stop and take the ticket. Or you can run, get door checked, cuffed and booked for evading. Like always the suspect choses the level of force used by the police.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:06:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 11:07:18 AM EST by TrojanMan]
Regardless of what the letter of the law says... Common practice and convention dictates that bicyclists need follow only one rule: Don't get hit. Everything else is unimportant.

We have to deal with the fact that ~80% of the people on the road literally hate us, whether we're in their way or not, and don't even want to see us riding a bike. You complain when we're too slow. Then you complain if we don't stop.

How would you like this:
I ride my bike down the middle of the lane right in front of you at 10MPH and come to a full and complete stop at every sign.

You wouldn't like it at all, would you? So I go fast when I can and brake when I need to. I will ride my bike on a sidewalk (not legal in many places) in order to let you pass when the road is narrow. I will wait for traffic instead of taking my turn at a 4-way stop. Not that many of you let me take my turn anyhow, because then you'd end up behind me. I use hand signals and make my intentions known. I don't get bent out of shape when vehicles never use turn signals, cut me off and blatantly blow through signs and lights. Often times, my courtesy to you causes me to break a law.

And then when one of us pays the price for a similar infraction, you all circle-jerk about how great it is and how they should string him up high? Screw you selfish bastards.

Bicyclists don't ride to inconvenience you. Get over yourself.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:10:18 AM EST
Great, another cyclist bashing thread..

The kid was probably being an asshole.
Campus cops are hardly every nice or lenient.
Follow the laws or get a ticket.

Try to visualize a california kid, riding his bike to college, listening to NPR on a walkman.. I wasn't there, but any little bit of attitude would go a LONG way.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:12:19 AM EST
FUUUUUCK YEAH!@$!@#

I hope he has to pay the FULL FUCKING AMOUNT!!!!

Fucking bicyclists running stop signs.....and this asshat fucking pedaling away with headphones on....SICK OF THAT SHIT!!

Way to go Officer Berg!! WAY. TO. GO!!! Excellent ticket issue...keep up the great work!!
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:18:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By jbombelli:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?

The law applies to them, too.

I fucking hate bicyclists that ride like jackasses, cutting off traffic, and running stop signs/lights. They NEED to be ticketed, and SHOULD be ticketed.



+1.

My question was more to this. If you are subject to MV laws, don't you need a drivers license? If you're under 16, how do you get one of those? And if you can't, how can you legally be held liable to standards that the law prohibits you from meeting?


He was not cited for not having a license, but for ear plugs and running a stop sign.

In many places there is an age limit for riding a bike on the sidewalk.

Little kids are allowed, sometime in your teens you MUST ride on the street and obey ALL the traffic laws.

Since a license is not required they will not be able to stop you from riding, but they sure can hit you with fines.



Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:19:27 AM EST
During the good weather I deal with bikers every day on my commute to work. Some are good and some are bad. Most dont want to get hit by a car traveling 40-50 mph. But everyonce in a while there is an idiot, who usually gives the rest a bad name, that thinks he owns the road and actually tries to cut off said speeding cars.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:26:56 AM EST
If he'd have been hit, doing what he was doing, there would be a great outcry about how motorists don't pay attention to/respect/share the road with cyclists.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:30:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 11:54:24 AM EST by Scott574]
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By jbombelli:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?

The law applies to them, too.

I fucking hate bicyclists that ride like jackasses, cutting off traffic, and running stop signs/lights. They NEED to be ticketed, and SHOULD be ticketed.



+1.

My question was more to this. If you are subject to MV laws, don't you need a drivers license? If you're under 16, how do you get one of those? And if you can't, how can you legally be held liable to standards that the law prohibits you from meeting?



So if I am 14 years old joyriding in my parents car I should be legally exempt from MV laws since I can't be licensed anyway? What about an adult that never had a license in the first place, are they exempt since they were unable or chose not get get licensed?

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:41:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scott574:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By jbombelli:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?

The law applies to them, too.

I fucking hate bicyclists that ride like jackasses, cutting off traffic, and running stop signs/lights. They NEED to be ticketed, and SHOULD be ticketed.



+1.

My question was more to this. If you are subject to MV laws, don't you need a drivers license? If you're under 16, how do you get one of those? And if you can't, how can you legally be held liable to standards that the law prohibits you from meeting?[/quote]


So if I am 14 years old joyriding in my parents car I should be legally exempt from MV laws since I can't be licensed anyway? What about an adult that never had a license in the first place, are they exempt since they were unable or chose not get get licensed?


How do those examples even mean anything in application tot his topic?
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:44:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Scott574:
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By jbombelli:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?

The law applies to them, too.

I fucking hate bicyclists that ride like jackasses, cutting off traffic, and running stop signs/lights. They NEED to be ticketed, and SHOULD be ticketed.



+1.

My question was more to this. If you are subject to MV laws, don't you need a drivers license? If you're under 16, how do you get one of those? And if you can't, how can you legally be held liable to standards that the law prohibits you from meeting?[/quote]


So if I am 14 years old joyriding in my parents car I should be legally exempt from MV laws since I can't be licensed anyway? What about an adult that never had a license in the first place, are they exempt since they were unable or chose not get get licensed?



You do NOT need a DL for a bicycle. You do need a DL for a motor vehicle. There is a big difference in operating the two. However when riding a bicycle on the street you are required to follow the rules of the road.

Thats it, no more stupid legally exempt statements. The laws are what they are.

Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:47:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By rwalters17:
Traffic laws apply to cyclists too.


What about kids under 16 who don't have a driver's license?


They can get cited too, and if particularly obnoxious, they can get to wait until a parent or guardian shows up. they usually have a school id card to use. It's usually easier to hit them when they ride through the stop sign.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 11:49:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By phurba:
Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
waive the earplug charge... that's retarded to apply to bikes.


Yeah, bicyclists don't need to hear anything. Least of all somebody honking to let them know there's about to be a problem.


Aren't windows basically earplugs as much as headphones?
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