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Posted: 9/29/2007 3:44:31 PM EDT
A friend of mine, she wants a bike. Something to ride around town, etc etc. I don't really know that much about bikes but I said I'd look into it for her. What would be a decent sportish type bike for her to look into?
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The new 2008 250cc Ninja is pretty sweet looking, MSRP is only $3499. There's another thread going on about it in this forum.
My girlfriend has the '07 model. It's a great first bike for anyone, in my opinion. Unless you are morbidly obese, that is. But it hauls me and my girlfriend to class (combined weight = 295 lb). |
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The Buell Blast is dead simple and has a really low seat height.
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And is a total piece of crap. Any of the other bikes named, including the little cruisers are far superior motorcycles. |
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Thats badass! Does it come in red or Royal blue? |
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all the little bikes are great ex the bull-hole.
but she needs to keep in mind that as small and as light as they are |
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She needs to get a 250 Ninja.
Make it a used 3-5 year old one in excellent mechanical condition that's been tipped over or slow-crashed. Should be about $1200 or so. She can use that to learn to ride on. Then she can move up to an older CBR600. |
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I tried the Blast thing for my wife, while it was easy to ride, lack of any power prompted its sale. |
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Preach it, Jeremy! There's a reason why they call the littlest paint-shaker the B-last. It is truly the total turd. |
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I'm assuming motorcycle, not bicycle...
my wife loved her Ninja 600... small enough to be comfortable, but with enough go juice to have fun and get you out of trouble if necessary... the Ninja 250's have a really good track record if cost is a factor.... too. My only personal experience is with the above bikes and a honda intereceptor, which was too high for her to ride comfortably... Honda Rebels are reported to be really good as well, low center of gravity, easy to ride, and the seat is nice and low to the ground if she is short. |
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Underpowered, overweight, ill-handling, crude, drum-brake equipped, 4-speed, bias-ply, carbureted, air cooled, two-valve...somebody please stop me. There's no reason to punish someone just because they are new. The SV650 does everything well, and unless you're way under 5' tall, you should be able to balance one at stops. |
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No. A beginner does not need a 600 pound 38 horsepower garden tractor. |
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No to the EX500 and GS500. The SV650 is vastly superior to both.
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No to an old 600 Supersport.
Wrapped in expensive plastic, overweight, and even less steam than a modern 600. |
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i know what you are saying. all i am saying is she needs to know where the gas cap is and how to remove it even though she can get an attendant to pump gas for her. |
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Well, at least we can concur on that. Belive me, I'm all for having every weapon possible at my disposal to combat terrible drivers. Minnesotans and Wisconsinites are some of the most awful drivers I've experienced, and I've experienced them for years. No turn signals, crossing 5 lanes of traffic to exit in about a 300 foot space, deplorable behaviour in stop-and-go, as high of cell-phone-minutes-while-driving per capita as anywhere in the world... but the EX, for its part, isn't unable to deal with this, especially with a mindful rider. The 'buffer zone' concept I was taught has served me well. Just never, at any opportunity, be there where someone else's mistake could make you mincemeat. You know as well as I that it's practically a learned skill of "mind-reading" - the idiots will be idiots at all times, and always assume so. My own EX is even +1 front -3 rear sprockets, so it's even a bit sluggier than a stock EX. It still gets out of its own way and out of hazard's way quite easily. I could see how it would be a problem if one was 250+ lbs, but hey, I'm not... ANY bike has limitations in its capacities. Being mindful of these and knowing what you could potentially do or not do are more important than what the bike itself could do. Sorry if I sounded sour in my first response, but there's so much of the "Ninja 250 tops out at 60mph and will start on fire if you look at it wrong" stuff out there that it just gets old. Again, the EX250 has remained a very strong seller for Kawasaki since 1986 now, and serves tens of thousands of riders well. It's hardly a two-wheeled Pinto, waiting to get you killed at every opportunity. It's actually so easy to operate and maneuver that it's really a very formidable bike in traffic, especially tight and heavy traffic. It's a far cry from something like a GN125 that struggles to hold 55mph, and that's almost the case that you seemed to be arguing. It brakes well (little mass to stop, even for its little single disc), it "flicks" as quickly as any bike out there (really, it's alarming how quickly you can make them change directions), and it goes very well, nevermind its displacement. *edited to correct mah' pluses and minuses! |
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I rode my girlfriend's over to the library earlier tonight. I personally think they're great for this city traffic, I'd almost rather do inner city commuting on the baby Ninja than on my old SV. They still accelerate better than the vast majority of cars. |
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Its underpowered and wrapped in expensive plastic +1 also just because KP does not |
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Having watched a wife of a friend buy a new 250 Ninja only to sell it 2/3 the way thru the season I can't recomend it for some of the reasons mentioned. The SV650s are hard to beat and their Korean Cousin Hoyasung are developing quite a budget following here in New england as well. Interestingly enough the Hoyasung puts out a 250 "Sport Bike" that I have had one short ride on and it was in my experience a much better performer than the 250 Ninja
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Odd, I heard the Hyosung is down about 5HP next to the Ninja, and the brakes are junk, as well. I eyeballed these personally when they first came out. They look more modern and have inverted forks, but they're not impressive at all, especially considering their MSRP of $800 more than the little Ninja. |
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Sorry, but I disagree with you. My first streetbike was a Katana 600. While it was a tad heavy, in relation to other bikes of it's class, it was not underpowered, by a longshot. It has more than enough power for street use. You need to stop applying track criteria to streetbikes. Kirk..I don't kow if you are really a racer or not, sorry, the internet is full of "been-there-done-that" types. No offense.. You certainly sound like you know something about bikes. But you also sound like most of the amatuer racers I have met and known-an arrogant, self-centered, egotistical know-it-all, that no matter the bike that is being discussed, you have a reason not to like it.... Your same 'ol message is getting tiresome...as is your "know-it-all" attitude. |
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I have to confess I don't know the prices of either bike. I nhad heard the brakes were bad on the 650s but I did ride both the Ninja 250 05 and What ever the name of the Hoyasung 250 "sport unit is . Both were short rides (for anyone who knows SW New Hamphire Rte 63 from Spofford to West Moreland then back down River RD and while it is only an opinion the Hoyasung felt like it had more usable power and was better in the corners than the Ninja |
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Fair enough! I'd wanted to get ahold of a Hyosung 250 for a week or two, myself, but I don't see that being do-able anytime soon... maybe they'll be dirt-cheap in a year or two and I can get one just to flog around town. One thing that weirded me out is Hyosung recommends you pull the cylinder heads every 6,000 miles to clean carbon deposits from them... huh???? |
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Generally, I agree with what you're saying; however, the EX250 does just fine on the street. It's no slouch, despite the small displacement; it still outperforms most passenger cars. I ride an '05 gixxer 750 right now, but I rode an EX250 for a couple years back in college. I had no problem staying ahead of traffic. Sure, I had to do a lot more shifting than I do on the 750, but it's wasn't a slouch by any means. The EX250 has plenty of oomph to stay "safe" on the street. |
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The problem many women have with bikes is fit: Many females find bikes too tall, too fat, or both. A properly fit bike is key to success with beginning bikers... (I teach the MSF Basic Rider Course, and fit about 300 people a year to bikes).
My suggestion?: The Suzuki S40 (formerly the Savage) or the Honda Shadow VLX. Both have low seat hieght and are relatively narrow. Both bikes look pretty good (which helps!) and both are 600-650 class bikes so there is plenty of pep for 55+mph travel. The little 250s are fine starters but kind of crap out at 50+. My wife is 5'4" and 120 lbs. I offered to buy her any bike she wanted. We tried 'em all. The winner was the s40. I ride her bike all the time and its a blast (and I'm 6' and 240). Absolutely awesome beginner bike (better than the little rebel/virago/Gz250s we use in class really). $4200 new. The S40 is a better choice than the VLX since the S40 ahs five speeds (to the VLX's four). I would unhesitatingly recommend the S40 as a starter bike for anyone who is under 5'6" tall. |
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A vulcan 500 was my first bike. Excellent beginner choice. And if you get one about 10 years old or so it can be had on the cheap. |
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Typical. Most people out-grow them by about the end of the beginner's MSF course. |
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"Tuned for low end torque" is ad-speak for "It has no top end horsepower, but we're trying to make that sound like a good thing". |
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Damn right. I have a Harley 883R Sportster that I bought off the show room last week. Chickies with Harley's are cool. |
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As a new rider she found that comforting. It's the tried and true Ninja engine, just tuned more for cruiser duty. Yes, they gave up some top end hp for more lower end torque (slightly different cam I suppose). This made her feel more in control, especially at lower speeds and around town driving. Top end horsepower was toward the bottom of her priorities. |
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If she stays off the interstate, I would have to concur with the Virago 250 in a cruiser style bike, if she chooses to go that direction. Anyone saying that power is needed in a bike to ride safely is not advocating safety. I'd rather learn to keep a good situational awareness and practice safe riding habits than try to rely on horsepower to get me out of situations.
Virago's are cheap, get great mileage (I weighed 290 and got 70mpg in town), and if she is leggy, it will be better in the legroom department for her than a Rebel, which has a little closer to a mid-control arrangement than the Virago does. Believe it or not, the Viragos handle the twisties and parking lots GREAT. I scraped the pegs on mine numerous times because it is so light and manuverable. HOWEVER, it also has the same powerband and shift points of a 1983 Mazda B2000 pickup. 15-25-35-55 into 5th. Its not an interstate bike, but will provide a safe and capable two-lane bike. |
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Riding on the street is dangerous. Managing that risk involves stacking the deck in your favor. The horsepower to leave a situation is a tool that you should not deny yourself. If you don't have the horsepower to prevent traffic from forming up around you and limiting your options of escape, being "aware" of someone making a lane change over the top of you isn't going to be any less fatal. Awareness is only the first step in an active process. We're not talking about the kind of horsepower that causes street squids to accidentally hoik up the front wheel at 120 mph. We're talking about the kind of horsepower that allows you to quickly move out of the path of an errant Camry. A 250 mini-chopper does not have that. An SV650 does. If you have an irrational fear of horsepower, you need to be aware that there is a much more powerful control that you must master on your motorcycle- the brake. An open-class Supersport will not initiate a wheelie using the throttle only, much past about 120 mph. The same bike will easily pull the back wheel off the ground using the brake at 175 mph. |
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I'm with the fast guy here, we aren't advocating riding a 100hp bike for a beginner, but she needs to have a motor large enough to get away from say... a person changing lanes with her in his blind spot when the motor is plodding away in the mid-range. There's no substitute for cubes, she needs to be on a 400cc twin, minimum.
I like all kinds of bikes. Nasty fast ones, even small ones. My latest is a grey market import from Japan, and has only 80cc's. While it's fast enough at 75mph to get along on the freeway, it's a little frenetic and nerve wracking in every day traffic and I wouldn't be caught dead on a freeway. Or maybe I would-either way, get her a MOTORcycle. Dave |
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Do you have a Moriwaki RS80? |
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NSR80, wanted one since I was a 17 year old riding to school and work every day back in '87 on a YSR80. Bought it off of a collector (Two Bros Racing's biggest sponsor, L&W Engineering-who happen to be my company's biggest competitor) who got it from a Chyrsler exec that imported it illegally himself on a jet. I didn't have any issues getting it titled (it's an 'antique' now, but I played hell with the guys at the Canadian (American side) border getting the 7501 form it needed to prove it was imported. If I had just kept my mouth shut, played dumb about the 12 digit VIN# and had a different name on the bill of sale (real name actually is Joe Jones!) it would have been a lot less traumatic.
It's an '87, and I bought it with 761 km on it. I've doubled that since July, and have a friend in Japan sourcing hop-up parts for it for me. Gotta act quick tho, the 2 strokes are falling out of fashion... MY next exotic aquisition will hopefully be a CBR250RR.... 4 cylinder, 21,000rpm redline and maybe 130mph if you really push it hard with the derestriction kit installed. Vid: (just like the big boys-remember, this is a 15-20 year old design, and it still looks and performs fresh!) www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T_fm_gTec8&mode=related&search= |
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I have a friend who has the Honda GT650 Hawk, a Yamaha TDM850, both the Honda VT500 and FT500 and a Yamaha SRX600. He's into off-beat motorcycles. |
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I would go with a big NO on this. I have an SV650 and for a newb, it has too much power and torque. A 250 or 500 ninja is a MUCH more docile bike. |
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Good lord, you are such a freaking SQUID. Not everybody wants to do 200 MPH on a bike. Some people want to cruise. Others like to ride in the city. Still others like lower speed manuvering. Why not just suggest a busa or ZX-14 for the girl? |
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Bullshit. I am 5'6" and my inseam is 29 inches. I can't get my feet down that much. That is either a shaved seat or lowering links in the back. |
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I started both my son and daughter on 250 ninja's when they were 15. Nice little bikes, handle great and will easily do the speed limit. My daughter has hers for sale now for $2300/bo. She would like to keep it , but wants a car.
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I will respond for him. "We call these people posers." |
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That's a cool bike Seth. |
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You must not be wearing what look like 6" heels. |
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I think you misread that. He's saying that kirkp would call anyone who doesn't want to do 200 mph a poser. Because kirkp is too small-minded to realize different people want different things out of their bikes. Or he actually hates his 650, but has to be vehemently opposed to anyone who doesn't ride one in order to justify his purchase to himself. Either way, I'm not the only one thats more than a little tired of his attitude. |
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Her heels aren't touching the ground. |
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