User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 10/30/2010 6:56:16 AM EDT
[#1]
As Rush pointed out, that's what the Soviet Union taught its kids - that the Soviet Union government invented cars, airplanes, etc.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 6:57:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Hah! He escaped again!
Let's all hope for a Biden Blitz right up to the elections!!! |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 7:00:56 AM EDT
[#3]
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 7:03:18 AM EDT
[#4]
He has a point, but it is not particularly well explained.
Government protects patents, and in the examples used, provide one of the largest customers and investors. The government being a large customer of innovative products like aircraft and electricity or communication technology is not a communist one. In his example, government did it's job. They can go further to provide research grants, facilities, and partnerships. Where government fucks up is when they force shit onto you or "protect" against innovation. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 7:05:17 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 7:09:54 AM EDT
[#6]
The government is currently wasting billions on so-called "green energy" initiatives, which in reality is a very expensive complex and ultimately Orwellian solution in search of a quatifiable problem.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 7:44:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. So, the Manhattan project was a waste of stolen money?  We got a lot more out of that than just a bomb. A lot of these businesses get money from being a customer of the government. Weather you see it as .gov or your money is a different matter |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 8:20:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Biden States "Herpdy, Derpdy Herpdy Doo." again
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Posted: 10/30/2010 8:21:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Al Gore invented the internets.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 8:31:35 AM EDT
[#10]
The libtard Rush Holt from NJ said America is so rich because of government spending.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 8:39:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
[/quote]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. So, the Manhattan project was a waste of stolen money? We got a lot more out of that than just a bomb. The Manhattan Project was government military research. Not the same as the government giving money to private businesses to do research on tree hugging. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 8:39:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. So, the Manhattan project was a waste of stolen money? We got a lot more out of that than just a bomb. A lot of these businesses get money from being a customer of the government. Weather you see it as .gov or your money is a different matter good point on the Manhattan project. We got a lot from the space program too. but they are the exception not the norm. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 8:42:33 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
good point on the Manhattan project. We got a lot from the space program too. but they are the exception not the norm. As noted above, the Manhattan Project and NASA research are government agencies funding their own research. But military and NASA research are not private businesses being funded by the government. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 8:43:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Anytime he opens his mouth, stupid shit comes out of it.
I will say though, NASA is about the best example of the .gov doing alot of good for science and industry. For every dollar spent on the apollo programs, we got a 9 or 10 dollar return on investment. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:01:17 AM EDT
[#15]
In a sense he’s right. I figure that government is somewhat like the oil in a machine. It’s necessary if the machine is going to work right. But it needs to stay where it belongs, do it’s job, and not go leaking out all over the place.
It’s a variation on a classic Leftist argument. They claim that because Conservatives believe in less government they must believe in no government. And, because some government is beneficial, more government must be even better. Think about it like this. If you spend 10% of your paycheck on something then it’s probably fairly important to you. If you spend 20% then it’s probably something you think you really, really need. Well, I think government is so important that I would be happy to see 20%, even 25% of our total GDP go to government (Combined Federal, state, local) to cover things such as police, fire, roads, military, social programs, courts, schools, etc. But when government takes twice that amount every year there is a problem and something needs to be cut. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:15:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Don't vote Democrat in Midterm Election .
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:21:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Government giving government money for research and production is even worse than government giving it to businesses.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. So, the Manhattan project was a waste of stolen money? We got a lot more out of that than just a bomb. A lot of these businesses get money from being a customer of the government. Weather you see it as .gov or your money is a different matter [/quote]The Manhattan Project was government military research. Not the same as the government giving money to private businesses to do research on tree hugging. [div] |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:25:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Anytime he opens his mouth, stupid shit comes out of it. I will say though, NASA is about the best example of the .gov doing alot of good for science and industry. For every dollar spent on the apollo programs, we got a 9 or 10 dollar return on investment. Private sector will get us into space faster and cheaper. However, none of this would have been possible without NASA undertaking what is originally a money-loosing proposition. In essence, government waste has made private and most likely profitable, space travel a distinct possibility. Ergo, government spending = good, despite it often being untangible. NASA's role in orbital launches will diminish. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:29:18 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
good point on the Manhattan project. We got a lot from the space program too. but they are the exception not the norm. As noted above, the Manhattan Project and NASA research are government agencies funding their own research. But military and NASA research are not private businesses being funded by the government. Yep |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:30:32 AM EDT
[#20]
The irony of people questioning the existence of government-generated inventions on the internet, of all things...
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:31:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: good point on the Manhattan project. We got a lot from the space program too. but they are the exception not the norm. As noted above, the Manhattan Project and NASA research are government agencies funding their own research. But military and NASA research are not private businesses being funded by the government. Yep You guys are aware that they subcontract nearly all production, and a ton of research off to private enterprise and universities (another bastion of sound financial management) right? Top engineers do not come cheap, and the allure of working for NASA isn't what it used to be. Easier to work for Lockmart or EG&G or some outfit and get paid market value by the .gov in a roundabout way.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:32:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Biden's a dick.
Innovation existed before governments. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:32:11 AM EDT
[#23]
The government creates regulations that dictate what manufacturers can bring to us if those items or their use can be regulated.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:35:43 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
The irony of people questioning the existence of government-generated inventions on the internet, of all things... Again, a military project. It took private business to actually do something with it. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:37:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. Al Gore and the internet all over again... |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:40:54 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Quoted: The irony of people questioning the existence of government-generated inventions on the internet, of all things... Again, a military project. It took private business to actually do something with it. no military, AT&T, IBM, Cray, and several universities started it. THEN private business (likely with aid in the form of small-business loans from gov) took it to where it is today. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:41:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The irony of people questioning the existence of government-generated inventions on the internet, of all things... Again, a military project. It took private business to actually do something with it. Have to agree, look up APRANET |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:42:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The irony of people questioning the existence of government-generated inventions on the internet, of all things... Again, a military project. It took private business to actually do something with it. no military, AT&T, IBM, Cray, and several universities started it. THEN private business (likely with aid in the form of small-business loans from gov) took it to where it is today. Wrong. Strictly military to start with. Look up DARPAnet. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:46:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The irony of people questioning the existence of government-generated inventions on the internet, of all things... Again, a military project. It took private business to actually do something with it. no military, AT&T, IBM, Cray, and several universities started it. THEN private business (likely with aid in the form of small-business loans from gov) took it to where it is today. Wrong. Strictly military to start with. Look up DARPAnet.  And who do you think maintained ARPANET? Who made the components? Honewell, IBM, AT&T, XEROX.... I don't think you folks realize how closely the government and business is intertwined.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:48:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. So I take it the atom bomb should have been made privately? There are plenty of examples, mainly weapons research, where it pays to have the government behind it. That said, I agree for the most part. I'm sure most innovation would probably happen easier with no government dollars. It creates a huge issue over who has the patent rights (.gov vs corporations vs individual scientists) and leads to other issues. If it were all market driven, shit would probably happen sooner and cheaper. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:49:31 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. Here!! Here!! |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:54:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The irony of people questioning the existence of government-generated inventions on the internet, of all things... Again, a military project. It took private business to actually do something with it. no military, AT&T, IBM, Cray, and several universities started it. THEN private business (likely with aid in the form of small-business loans from gov) took it to where it is today. Wrong. Strictly military to start with. Look up DARPAnet.
And who do you think maintained ARPANET? Who made the components? Honewell, IBM, AT&T, XEROX.... I don't think you folks realize how closely the government and business is intertwined.
You do realize that the internet is a set of communication protocols, right? Protocols that allow disparate systems to communicate with each other. These protocols can be used over any manufacturers hardware and operating systems. That is the key to the Internet. Don't get hung up on physical layer transport mechanisms. Edit: The military forced TCP/IP and Internet protocol support on manufacturers. They would not buy something if it did not support the TCP/IP suite of protocols. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:54:20 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Anytime he opens his mouth, stupid shit comes out of it. I will say though, NASA is about the best example of the .gov doing alot of good for science and industry. For every dollar spent on the apollo programs, we got a 9 or 10 dollar return on investment. Yes NASA is the prime example, however with the new tasking they have been given by Zero on improving relations and improving the self esteem of the religion that shall remain nameless you have to wonder if they'll stay as viable as they once were. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 9:55:59 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. So I take it the atom bomb should have been made privately? There are plenty of examples, mainly weapons research, where it pays to have the government behind it. That said, I agree for the most part. I'm sure most innovation would probably happen easier with no government dollars. It creates a huge issue over who has the patent rights (.gov vs corporations vs individual scientists) and leads to other issues. If it were all market driven, shit would probably happen sooner and cheaper. Think Higgins boats. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 10:06:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Quoted: The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. Preach it brother! Preach the truth and let them hear! I still don't know how we ended up with government if no innovation was possible without government in the first place. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 10:25:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Well Gore claimed the internet. I'm pretty sure Biden just claimed fire and the wheel.
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Posted: 10/30/2010 10:31:50 AM EDT
[#37]
I will point out that none of the inventions are possible without the private sector. and all could be invented by the private sector if they saw market. All government inventions require private sector participation.
Bell got not a cent from government to help invent the phone. Edison got no money from government to invent the light bulb, movies, or phonograph. Ford got no government money to help invent the car. Wright brothers got no government money to invent the Airplane. ATT engineers invented the transistor all on there own. Gates got no government money to invent windows. NASA is a group of private companies managed by the government, if the companies quit working for the government there would be only a bunch of bureaucrats with out a operation to manage. There have been hundreds of thousands maybe millions of inventions in the US with few exceptions all done by the private sector, and all government inventions were things that the private sector brought to the government for one reason or another and said this is to big for us to develop but we think the country can use it, that includes the Manhattan Project. Not one invention in this country has been invented without the private sector involved. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 10:35:22 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I will point out that none of the inventions are possible without the private sector. and all could be invented by the private sector if they saw market. All government inventions require private sector participation. Bell got not a cent from government to help invent the phone. Edison got no money from government to invent the light bulb, movies, or phonograph. Ford got no government money to help invent the car. Wright brothers got no government money to invent the Airplane. ATT engineers invented the transistor all on there own. Gates got no government money to invent windows. NASA is a group of private companies managed by the government, if the companies quit working for the government there would be only a bunch of bureaucrats with out a operation to manage. There have been hundreds of thousands maybe millions of inventions in the US with few exceptions all done by the private sector, and all government inventions were things that the private sector brought to the government for one reason or another and said this is to big for us to develop but we think the country can use it, that includes the Manhattan Project. Not one invention in this country has been invented without the private sector involved. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 10:53:08 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. This.exactly. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 11:17:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. This.exactly. "Stolen" from citizens who voluntarily chose to hold shares live here and choose representation. Government is composed of, and directed by, private citizens, just like any other corporation; except for the responsibilities and inefficiencies it deliberately takes on to ensure continued legitimacy; and every organization eventually puts it's survival above making good product, because survival is a prerequisite for manufacturing. Many elements of private business lack long-term planning, so it's quite natural the market would evolve organizations that do finance high-risk or low-payoff goods like war, space flight and similar research, or provide regulation; and that such organizations would occasionally subcontract to more flexible companies. At least, that's a view from orthodox capitalism. I'm sure the communists would be shocked to hear that strictly government funded invention is completely impossible. It's not like they put the first man in space or something. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 11:29:16 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. This.exactly. "Stolen" from citizens who voluntarily chose to hold shares live here and choose representation. Government is composed of, and directed by, private citizens, just like any other corporation; except for the responsibilities and inefficiencies it deliberately takes on to ensure continued legitimacy; and every organization eventually puts it's survival above making good product, because survival is a prerequisite for manufacturing. Many elements of private business lack long-term planning, so it's quite natural the market would evolve organizations that do finance high-risk or low-payoff goods like war, space flight and similar research, or provide regulation; and that such organizations would occasionally subcontract to more flexible companies. At least, that's a view from orthodox capitalism. I'm sure the communists would be shocked to hear that strictly government funded invention is completely impossible. It's not like they put the first man in space or something. Who said anything about impossible, let's just say improbable. Especially in a free society. In the case of NASA the bureaucrats told the private sector what they needed/wanted and the private sector whipped it up. I had no choice as to where I was born, nor did most of the citizens who are in existence today. But saying that, I want to mention that the reason I stay is that even with all the crap currently coming at us I can't think of a better place to be. My problem with the government is that it currently is in need of reminding that we, not them, are in charge, they work for us. My original reason for posting Bite-me's comments was to point out that like all of his progressive buddies they actually believe the crap they are spouting. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 11:38:29 AM EDT
[#42]
If they believe this, then why are they destroying the space program? |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 12:44:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
If they believe this, then why are they destrooying the space program? Just a Rich White Guys Plaything, besides it has a heavy military element to it. You know, when you are trying to destroy a country you have to destroy it's military. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:04:10 PM EDT
[#44]
That Joe Biden, he's a comedian.
I shudder to think of all the times he has run for President, he might have been successful had he not been so retarded. He has been saying, and doing, stupid shit for a loooooong time. After his present gig is over, may he fade into the woodwork, never to bother us again. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:08:10 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
That Joe Biden, he's a comedian. I shudder to think of all the times he has run for President, he might have been successful had he not been so retarded. He has been saying, and doing, stupid shit for a loooooong time. After his present gig is over, may he fade into the woodwork, never to bother us again. Hell, he'll be considered an elder statesman. 
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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:14:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit.  Do you know how hard businesses lobby for your tax dollars to fund their research programs? Here's an uncomfortable fact for the "Free Market" worshipers: The biggest lobbyist for Cap and Trade was a group founded and funded by British Petroleum. One of BP's incentives was to get huge grants from the government to pay for BP's research into development of "green energy". There is no such thing as a free market. There is that which government takes from industry and that which industry takes from government. They may have lover's quarrels from time to time, but it is a marriage of convenience that neither side will ever willingly walk away from. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:15:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: As Rush pointed out, that's what the Soviet Union taught its kids - that the Soviet Union government invented cars, airplanes, etc. Yup, if there was an invention, the Soviet Union created it. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:17:03 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:19:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The gov does provide a lot of money for research. So in a way the gov does help a lot in many areas, but not like the VP believes. That is wrong. The government does not "help in many ways" by "providing a lot of money for research". The government does not have any money. The only money it has to "give for research" is stolen from the citizens, and only a very small part is returned to "research" after most of the money is wasted on government bureaucracy. The government should stay out of the "providing money for research" business altogether, and let business spend money as it sees fit. Do you know how hard businesses lobby for your tax dollars to fund their research programs? Here's an uncomfortable fact for the "Free Market" worshipers: The biggest lobbyist for Cap and Trade was a group founded and funded by British Petroleum. One of BP's incentives was to get huge grants from the government to pay for BP's research into development of "green energy". There is no such thing as a free market. There is that which government takes from industry and that which industry takes from government. They may have lover's quarrels from time to time, but it is a marriage of convenience that neither side will ever willingly walk away from. Big business LOVES socialism. |
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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:21:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Mankind managed to invent the wheel, lever and inclined plane all without the help of government, they did this before they even moved out of the cave. Government at best has little influence of any kind on innovation, and normally retards all kinds of innovation and free thought.
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