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Posted: 2/17/2012 5:42:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:45:17 AM EDT


Ask the renters who had to move out of their residences because the mortgage company foreclosed on the owner.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:45:50 AM EDT
Living with in your means is the key no matter what you do.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:46:18 AM EDT
I love my paid for home. Fuck renting.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:46:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:46:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Badlatitude:
Living with in your means is the key no matter what you do.


This...but I don't agree with the always better to rent thing. In my instance it has been best to rent for the better part of my life. However now, it makes no financial sense and it is better for me to own.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:47:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 5:48:33 AM EDT by SGocka]
The reason is simple. While a home is the main repository of wealth for many Americans, it comes with numerous hefty expenses. The carrying costs - what's needed to hold and maintain the asset - range from property taxes and home insurance to emergency repairs and renovations. In a rental situation, the landlord covers those costs, leaving the occupant free to invest revenue in other areas.


That's stupid. All those costs are figured into the rent. The renter is paying all that and more.

The owner just has the burden of having the money for an unexpected costly repair.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:48:14 AM EDT
Let's just presume that everyone rents because it is better for them financially. Who would own all the houses that everyone rents?
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:48:56 AM EDT
In some areas, rent is much higher than owning, and in some areas it's the oposite.

In my town I can buy a decent single family home in a working class area for $40k and rent it out for $750/mo. The mortgage will be around $350.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:49:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Badlatitude:
Living with in your means is the key no matter what you do.


This. But I hate renting.

I will sell my soul to pay for my property
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:50:22 AM EDT
Depends on the cost, but maybe I'm willing to pay more to own.

I like to do whatever I want to my property. I like to make home improvements. I don't want to have to answer to a landlord that "owns" the space I live in. The bank may own my mortgage, but they can't say a damn thing about what I do to my property or on my property.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:51:17 AM EDT
A simple question would be if it is better 100% of the time how are people making a living owning rent houses?


Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:51:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 5:52:39 AM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:52:26 AM EDT
To rent a house equivalent to the one I purchased, my rent would be about 25% more than my mortgage, insurance and taxes. Forever. My mortgage only lasts for 15 years.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:52:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Let's just presume that everyone rents because it is better for them financially. Who would own all the houses that everyone rents?

The guys pimping financial advice and saying renting is the way to go.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:52:44 AM EDT
I could have already paid for half a house with the money I pissed away on rent.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:54:31 AM EDT
I will never go back to renting again, but we have a condo and a house and when we get older the house will go and we'll keep the condo.

Zero maintenance concerns, gated, pool, tennis, etc....

Own it like a regular home, little worry like an apartment.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:55:47 AM EDT
It's probably correct that at the moment in most markets it's financially better to rent, but that's due to the glut of housing on the market and all the effort that's gone into keeping housing prices from correcting.

In my area there are significant tax advantages for primary residences, the rental market here is about 50% more than you'd pay to own the same house. You'd be nuts to rent here for more than two years.

It does help keep the riffraff out.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:56:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Let's just presume that everyone rents because it is better for them financially. Who would own all the houses that everyone rents?


uhmmm...the man....
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:58:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bikedamon:
Depends on the cost, but maybe I'm willing to pay more to own.

I like to do whatever I want to my property. I like to make home improvements. I don't want to have to answer to a landlord that "owns" the space I live in. The bank may own my mortgage, but they can't say a damn thing about what I do to my property or on my property.


Actually, depending on the "home improvement" the bank can have say.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:59:01 AM EDT
He put 500K in upgrades in it but doesn't own it. Pure Genius.

Link Posted: 2/17/2012 5:59:58 AM EDT
I dunno, maybe if you're older I could see owning being a viable option, but for me, right now, there's no way I'd want to own a house and be tied down like that. For one, my job is out of town, so I'm gone two or three days a week. Second, even when I'm off work, I'm only home to sleep, cook, or surf Arfcom. Otherwise, I'm outside doing stuff. Or I'm camping, which is even less time home. Why buy a house if you're never there? Why tie yourself down to one location? I'm pretty happy where I'm at right now, but if I ever wanted to go somewhere else, I'd just give my landlord a couple, three months notice, pack my shit, and be gone. Having that freedom and latitude is worth it for me.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:00:35 AM EDT
"In a rental situation, the landlord covers those costs, leaving the occupant free to invest revenue in other areas."


So every one of my 401ks, IRA, 403bs, kids 529c that has been created between Jan 2001 and Dec 31, 2011 is in the red. For a time they made money but for the course of they have all lost money. Every single one. So what can someone invest in gold?
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:00:35 AM EDT
Thats a slave mentality
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:02:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By K2QB3:
It's probably correct that at the moment in most markets it's financially better to rent, but that's due to the glut of housing on the market and all the effort that's gone into keeping housing prices from correcting.

In my area there are significant tax advantages for primary residences, the rental market here is about 50% more than you'd pay to own the same house. You'd be nuts to rent here for more than two years.

It does help keep the riffraff out.

I agree in a lot of markets. The primary argument for buying was your payments was building equity. With home values dropping over the last few years, if you were the sucker responsible person that put 20% down payment, you most likely saw most of that disappear as well.

If it flies, floats or fucks, its always better to rent. Just ask Paul McCarthy.

Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:06:00 AM EDT
Don't let your yearnings get ahead of your earnings.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:07:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:
I love my paid for home. Fuck renting.

Yep.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:07:14 AM EDT
If EVERYBODY sold their homes and opted to rent...

Wait a minute.


Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:10:38 AM EDT
Nothing is ever that absolute.

(from someone who owns a home, but wishes i was renting)

i'll buy again- i'll just be a LOT more careful with the $$$.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:14:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 6:16:05 AM EDT by snakes19]
Originally Posted By Paul:
Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:
I love my paid for home. Fuck renting.


I lived in apartments until age 41 because I lived as a gypsy. Ten years ago this month I bought my home ... and have never been so happy.

I'll own it out-right in three more years ... and then I'll stay here mortgage and rent free.

My mortgage is $800 - $1150 with taxes, insurance, and fees. The homes on either side of me rent for $1600 and $1650.


this, my friend is renting out one of his houses for $1200 utilities not included, my mortgage on a slightly nicer house is $715 including our outrageous property taxes
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:21:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 6:22:20 AM EDT by runcible]
Originally Posted By Dragracer:
He put 500K in upgrades in it but doesn't own it. Pure Genius.


Pure genius?

The first two lines of the article...

"Rich Arzaga owns a luxury home in San Ramon, California, but he's not betting on it as an investment.

The founder and CEO of Cornerstone Wealth Management, who bought the 5,000 sq. ft. property in 2005 for $1.8 million and has spent $500,000 improving it, considers the abode a wonderful place for his family."



Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:25:59 AM EDT
I could buy the house I'm renting... but the mortgage and property taxes would be double what I'm paying for rent.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:28:20 AM EDT
I think the reality lies somewhere between what this guy is saying and the conventional ARFCOM theory on home ownership. Sometimes it's better to rent, sometimes it's better to own. Depends on the market and one's life situation. I think one thing this guy does highlight that is a common problem is people blowing their entire life savings on buying a home. One shouldn't exchange having an emergency fund for owning a home.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:28:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 6:29:03 AM EDT by _DR]

Rent is a waste money until you move around every year. I have never failed to make at least a small profit on a home sale, usually more than that.
My house payment is less than rentals in my area because of accumulated equity.

Acumen is important, if you don't have that, maybe you are a lifelong renter.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:29:02 AM EDT
A lot of times the cost is being spread out among many renters though.
Originally Posted By SGocka:
The reason is simple. While a home is the main repository of wealth for many Americans, it comes with numerous hefty expenses. The carrying costs - what's needed to hold and maintain the asset - range from property taxes and home insurance to emergency repairs and renovations. In a rental situation, the landlord covers those costs, leaving the occupant free to invest revenue in other areas.


That's stupid. All those costs are figured into the rent. The renter is paying all that and more.

The owner just has the burden of having the money for an unexpected costly repair.


Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:30:19 AM EDT
Rich Arzaga owns a luxury home in San Ramon, California


Yeh, I could see where that might be a problem, finance-wise...
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:31:22 AM EDT
Do you want to know the secret? Do you really?

Live uncomfortably.


Comfort costs money. The less comfort you can deal with, the more money you will have. Period. Now, "uncomfortably" to you might mean a tent in an OWS camp. It might mean a 500sqft apartment. It might mean a double-wide. But whatever your minimum threshold is, find it and live it. You will save a ton of money, guaranteed. It is the number one best way to save obcene amounts of cash.

I lived on a 300sqft steel houseboat with no heat for 2.5 years. In the ghetto in DC. It sucked more than you can possibly imagine, and, really, it wasn't all *that* bad. It was livable, you know? And I banked almost $100k in that time. Do you know what it's like to be 23 years old and to have a fat bank account that you earned every penny of yourself? It's fucking wild, let me tell you. Of course, then I blew it all on a house and got married. But I didn't earn it to look at it, so whatever.


The shit thing to me is, I lived in voluntary poverty for a long time. At least, as long as I could stand it. Hunger, cold, and uncertainty are extremely powerful motivators to go to work every day.

And here's these welfare queens, and we give them a comfortable apartment with heat and a full kitchen, hot and cold running water, free food, free healthcare, free entertainment at the communicty center, library, a free playground for the kids...
Fuckin' A. A few years ago, I'd have considered that paradise. Put them up in some fucking FEMA trailers and let them be uncomfortable for a change. I guarantee it'll motivate them to better their position themselves. Guaran-fucking-teed.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:35:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 6:39:31 AM EDT by callgood]
Originally Posted By Eazy_E:
I dunno, maybe if you're older I could see owning being a viable option, but for me, right now, there's no way I'd want to own a house and be tied down like that. For one, my job is out of town, so I'm gone two or three days a week. Second, even when I'm off work, I'm only home to sleep, cook, or surf Arfcom. Otherwise, I'm outside doing stuff. Or I'm camping, which is even less time home. Why buy a house if you're never there? Why tie yourself down to one location? I'm pretty happy where I'm at right now, but if I ever wanted to go somewhere else, I'd just give my landlord a couple, three months notice, pack my shit, and be gone. Having that freedom and latitude is worth it for me.


At certain periods in my life I was in your boat.

Later it made more sense to own.

In the future, after I retire I may wish we were renting again as it's a bitch to sell a house in this area. I think my wife would like to relocate closer to or on the coast and the real estate market is going to have to bounce back before that's an option.

In the meantime our house is paid for and our property tax is $720 a year.

Of course, the new roof was 12k, the new gutters a thou........

There's a guy here who got a promotion that required him to move to Montgomery. Can't get rid of his house here so he lives in an apartment and comes home on the weekends.

Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:36:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Let's just presume that everyone rents because it is better for them financially. Who would own all the houses that everyone rents?


Housing authorities set up by the Kremlin.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:38:44 AM EDT
I wonder how all those landlords make any money with all those expenses?
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:41:42 AM EDT
"Better to rent" yes I agree, that is my sig line after all.

Oh wait you're talking about homes, my bad.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:41:56 AM EDT
It's my considered opinion Yahoo news links are full of leftist bat shit. Fuck Yahoo News and the Bolsheviks at Reuters.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:42:07 AM EDT
Job market being what it is, and the housing market being what IT is.....renting is probably smarter at the moment.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 6:58:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2012 6:59:32 AM EDT by California_Kid]

Originally Posted By SplintNicket:
Job market being what it is, and the housing market being what IT is.....renting is probably smarter at the moment.

That may be true for a young person or couple just starting out. For a middle-aged divorced empty-nester with six years until his house is paid off (like me) it would make no sense at all unless I really wanted to rent, which I don't. Not having a landlord and not having to worry about the possibility of getting a 30-day eviction notice at any time both provide a lot of peace of mind.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:13:22 AM EDT
Rent around here is roughly 150 per month more than my mortgage payment. Fuck renting.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:17:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:19:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By California_Kid:

Originally Posted By SplintNicket:
Job market being what it is, and the housing market being what IT is.....renting is probably smarter at the moment.

That may be true for a young person or couple just starting out. For a middle-aged divorced empty-nester with six years until his house is paid off (like me) it would make no sense at all unless I really wanted to rent, which I don't. Not having a landlord and not having to worry about the possibility of getting a 30-day eviction notice at any time both provide a lot of peace of mind.


I hear a lot of sob stories about not being able to find a job, and not being able to sell the house to move for a job. THAT scares me more.

And for the record, rent around here is much higher than a mortgage on a comparable property.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:22:30 AM EDT
I bet you could find an "expert" and a "study" to support just about any opinion imaginable.
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:30:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By far_right:
A simple question would be if it is better 100% of the time how are people making a living owning rent houses?



Exactly.

The real answer is that the rent vs. own formula always oscillates around neutral. The two balance each other out naturally as humans are rational beings as a whole even if only subconsciously. When buying a home is the better deal, more people gravitate towards buying which raises prices to the point that it's not. When renting is the better deal, more people gravitate towards renting which raises rents to the point that it's not.

It's always going to be a constant tug of war just like any other market. That said, I'd expect that with debt and housing prices as depressed levels and more people renting than before, we are either at or getting to the point where ownership makes more sense.

If I sold my house today, the mortgage payment of the would be buyer would be about $1200 including taxes whereas the rent for my house in my local market would easily be $1600 at the bare minimum. Does the $400 per month ($4,800) per year cover upkeep? Yeah, I'd say so.

In reality, houses my size are listed for rent in the $2000+ range so I'm being super conservative. Owning makes more sense in my neighborhood today.




Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:49:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:
I love my paid for home. Fuck renting.


This +1
Link Posted: 2/17/2012 7:51:40 AM EDT
Rich Arzaga owns a luxury home in San Ramon, California, but he's not betting on it as an investment.

The founder and CEO of Cornerstone Wealth Management, who bought the 5,000 sq. ft. property in 2005 for $1.8 million and has spent $500,000 improving it,

Owning a dream home, he says, creates a drain on other financial priorities, causing homeowners "not to meet their financial goal.


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