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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/6/2001 10:47:18 AM EDT
During G. Ws' speech he spoke to America in English AND SPANISH. This nation was founded speaking english. English first. If someone immigrates here they need to learn ENGLISH. Adios [;D]
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 11:04:37 AM EDT
I agree, but to what audience and topic was he speaking?
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 11:17:05 AM EDT
Not certain but it was a national speech. I have to wait and check the paper out today for the details. I heard about it on the radio last night. The concensus is he did it to court the Mexican vote. As a group 98% voted democrat at the last election.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 11:26:13 AM EDT
During G. Ws' speech he spoke to America in English AND SPANISH. This nation was founded speaking english. English first. If someone immigrates here they need to learn ENGLISH.
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This is a perfect example of why we (gun owners & republicans in general) can't get ahead in this country; because we love to display our political ignorance and stupidity. Are you so dumb you can't differentiate speaking their language in a political speech from an official governmental recognition of the language whereby things are, by law, printed in Spanish and other languages? I'm not for an official recognition of spanish whereby everything is printed in two or more languages, but I do think the key to survival for the republican party lies in bringing in hispanic voters. GW knows exactly what he's doing and he understands political realities more than almost any other republican in the past decade. Wake the F--- up MDS; this is political speech designed to win the hearts and minds of voters. And believe it or not, but there ARE many potential republican voters who speak Spanish as their first language. In fact, the fastest growing voting blocks in this country are blacks and hispanics. If you don't speak their language or make some sort of appeal to them, you'll never win them as voters, regardless of your positions. If the republican party doesn't recognize these groups and win them over to their side, the republican party, and by extention, progun politicians, will loose ground until they have no political power whatsoever. Since the republican takeover of the house and senate in 1994, republicans have been loosing seats. GW's win this year was a pure fluke. Dumb luck like that may strike once, but don't count on it again unless we can begin to make inroads into the black and hispanic voting communities. Look at the success of the Democratic party - they are more than happy to speak their language and bring these people into their party. Now certainly just speaking a voters language won't win them if there are major differences in ideology but if those potential voters only hear the democratic line and never hear the other side (republican), they're much more likely to vote democrat.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 11:35:35 AM EDT
i agree with shaggy. i thought the hispanic vote was split 50-50 in the last pres. election. New Mexico went to bush if i remember right. The black vote is probaly a lost cause. I see some good views from very few on tv. most are so far out there that it blows your mind. one lady said blacks should get a million dollars each for restatution!!!!
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 11:36:40 AM EDT
Well put shaggy.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 11:59:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2001 12:19:25 PM EDT by hadtochangemynick]
Originally Posted By SNIPERm88: I agree, but to what audience and topic was he speaking?
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For those who don't know...May 5th was Cinco De Mayo...and is celebrated I believe as Mexico's Independence Day. Also Jeb Bush is married to a woman of Hispanic heritage..and I believe New Mexico did go to Bush..It was a 50-50 split there...Almost every part of Arizona went to Bush...except the major metropolitan areas. In fact in all states it was the major metropolitan areas that went for ALGORE. Most of the Hispanics I know are conservative Republicans,of course most are middle and middle-upper class. In Florida the Cuban community voted with Bush no matter that someone tried to steal the election. Don't use a sterotype of all Hispanics (though I have been guilty I will admit). Would you rather have Bush lose the next election or mend fences and have a good chance of keeping Algore, dashcle and gephart and others from grabbing what guns we still have? edited due to lack of spelling and punctuation abilities (twice)
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 12:34:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2001 12:34:02 PM EDT by Adam_White]
Please allow me to nitpick here... MDS: You make my stomach churn. Let me guess - you don't even speak a second language. Perhaps you had two years of a language in High School. You would prefer to dwell in your ignorance, fortunate that your native language is spoken nearly world-wide. I have met you type before. You use that rhetoric about "this is America, we speak English" in the states - but I bet yoiu would still complain about the lack of English in any other country. I hear it every day. Grow up. People that immigrate to the US WANT to learn English. Not everybody has natural anility to master a lanuage overnight - or even in a lifetime. A significant number of Americans are more comfortable with Spanish. What is so wrong with that? locked & loaded: I agree with what you said, but have to point out an error - one that you admitted may be so- Mexico's Independance from Spain is celebrated on 16 September. The Cinco de Mayo celebration, IIRC, goes back to even the days of Spanish Rule. That it correlates to Mexican Independence day is a oft repeated and stated "fact." However, this makes it no less false. Ahh, well, back to work.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 12:50:20 PM EDT
W knows what he's doing. We must not let the Demos imprison spanish speaking people into the welfare state.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 12:51:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2001 12:58:57 PM EDT by hadtochangemynick]
Originally Posted By Adam White: Please allow me to nitpick here... locked & loaded: I agree with what you said, but have to point out an error - one that you admitted may be so- Mexico's Independance from Spain is celebrated on 16 September. The Cinco de Mayo celebration, IIRC, goes back to even the days of Spanish Rule. That it correlates to Mexican Independence day is a oft repeated and stated "fact." However, this makes it no less false. Ahh, well, back to work.
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WORLD BOOK PRESENTS In honor of Cinco de Mayo, World Book editors have compiled an online feature celebrating Mexican heritage. Articles in the feature are from World Book and chronicle the history of Mexico and the important role Mexican Americans and other Hispanic Americans have played in shaping the United States. Cinco de Mayo is a holiday celebrated on May 5 by Mexicans and Mexican Americans. Its name is Spanish for Fifth of May. Cinco de Mayo commemorates the victory of a Mexican army over a French army at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862. The Mexican army, led by General Ignacio Zaragoza, won the battle even though the French force was better armed and three times as large. The battle occurred after Emperor Napoleon III of France sent troops to Mexico to conquer the country. Despite the Mexican victory at Puebla, the French later gained control of Mexico City and established a French-supported government there. In 1866 and 1867, however, France withdrew its troops from Mexico because of resistance by many Mexicans and pressure from the United States. The French-backed government soon fell. Cinco de Mayo is celebrated differently in different areas. locked&loaded: It must be a very widely held misconception then!!! I did a search and copied this from the world book site. the editing is only on my own statement here. As I've stated I can't type. I new it was the independence from Napoleon because I saw it in some documentaries. But anyway it was because of Cinco De Mayo that Bush gave a speech in Spanish to honor Hispanics. By the way, people of hispanic heritage fought for Texas independece and died at the Alamo with Davy Crockett and Jim Bowie.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 12:54:11 PM EDT
This is not Mexico. Why is the President celebrating the Independence Day of a FOREIGN NATION that has done NOTHING for the United States? Do they celebrate the 4th of July, OUR INDEPENDENCE DAY, in Mexico?? I don't think so. All this does is demonstrates to what country the loyalty of these "citizens" goes to.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 12:54:33 PM EDT
There's the way it outta be...and there's the way it is...Withing the next ten years the party that doenst have the Hispanic communties votes isnt going to exist
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 1:04:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: There's the way it outta be...and there's the way it is...Withing the next ten years the party that doenst have the Hispanic communties votes isnt going to exist
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Absolutely correct.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 1:09:22 PM EDT
Adam White: I have spoken Spanish but have lost most of it by not being around it for several years. I used to work with LOTS of illegals (Mexicans)for 17 years on ranches in California and Nevada. I hung with them more than the others on the place. I don't care what they speak in another country. That's their place this is ours. Can you go to another country and pressure that country into speaking your lingo and not their native tounge? I think not. Why are we as a nation willing to do that?
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 1:09:30 PM EDT
Adam White, And I wasn't positive as you said what it stood for without looking it up. And I never stated it was Independence from Spain or for that matter France. I wasn't sure which until I looked it up. I did know that both Spain and France controlled Mexico at one time. Just as at one time U.S. forces marched on Mexico City and we could have now owned all of Mexico.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 1:11:29 PM EDT
This is why we need a Kill File! I may not remember this idiots name, and read more of his drivel!
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 1:31:48 PM EDT
the largest immigration population today, legal and otherwise, is from south america. many are learning english and attempting to assimilate. i only hope they are also learning the US Constitution and their rights, since most of those governments don't support gun ownership, and don't support human rigths. the poor immigrant is always looking for some handouts -> democRats -> socialism -> no basic rights. it's political, cut him some slack
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 1:46:47 PM EDT
RE: Cinco D mayo.... I get a big kick out of the fact that we her in America celbrate the independance of a county that we conquered half of... which reminds me... why don't we make a deal with Vincente Fox to return the state of California as reparations for the Spanish-Ameican War? It sure isn't doing US much good.....
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 1:48:47 PM EDT
speak english or go home!
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 2:03:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By locked&loaded: WORLD BOOK PRESENTS Cinco de Mayo is a holiday celebrated on May 5 by Mexicans and Mexican Americans. Its name is Spanish for Fifth of May. Cinco de Mayo commemorates the victory of a Mexican army over a French army at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, 1862. The Mexican army, led by General Ignacio Zaragoza, won the battle even though the French force was better armed and three times as large. The battle occurred after Emperor Napoleon III of France sent troops to Mexico to conquer the country. [i]Despite the Mexican victory at Puebla, the French later gained control of Mexico City and established a French-supported government there.[/i] In 1866 and 1867, however, France withdrew its troops from Mexico because of resistance by many Mexicans and pressure from the United States. The French-backed government soon fell. Cinco de Mayo is celebrated differently in different areas.
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erhhhh.. read what you just posted: While admittedly I was wronf about thinking it dated back to Spansish rule - This clearly states in commemorates abattle against Napoleon's forces that happened BEFORE France took over Mexico. France didn't leave Mexico until 4-5 years later. Thus this could hardly count as a second Independence Day (Mexico celebrates its Independence FROM SPAIN on 16 Spetember, IIRC - not sure if they celebrate a specific date for kicking the French out - I'm sure Coinco de Mayo can do that too, it is just not what it commoemorates specifically) What Cinco de Mayo is, then, is a celebration of a fledgeling wstern Hemisphere nation defeating a conquering European Army, and a French one at that. Sounds like something I would be willing to celebrate [:D]. Come to think of it - I did just last night.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 2:11:09 PM EDT
I mostly agree with Imbrog|io. Living in CA all my life I know there exists a population of Mexicans and Mexican-Americans whose loyalty is to Mexico. In fact, if I recall correctly there was a large soccer game in LA a ways back between the US and Mexico, and guess who's side the locals were on? But I do believe this is a small minority in relation to the entire population of Mexicans living in the US. The choices people make in regard to political affiliation is based on the perception of what each party has to offer. The young side with the democrats because it makes them feel good and gives them the warm fuzzies, while the poor side with the party willing to offer them the most financial assistance. The Mexicans side with the party they perceive as being pro-immigration. The party promoting illegal immigrant amnesty programs, sponsorship of foreign relatives, easy access to public health facilities (regardless of immigration status), etc., is the party that gets the Mexican vote. As they get older and establish themselves financially, they become more conservative and vote with the party whose platform is based on lower taxes, etc. Unfortunately, any time a measure comes up to limit bilingual education in CA, the Mexicans perceive it as an anti-Mexican bill and vote accordingly. However, this last time I believe the Mexicans were for abolishing bilingual education in CA as they realized it was hurting their children academically. In fact, the largest contributor against this last measure was Telemundo. And this makes sense. Where would they be if the audience for Spanish language television dwindled? It’s in their best interests to keep children from learning English. So, they went around LA looking for outraged Mexicans, yada yada yada. Talk about a conflict of interest. In any case, if Bush’s speaking Spanish can help the Republicans, I’m all for it. As long as we are not forced to print official documents in Spanish or provide interpreters at every govt. office, that’s fine with me. Furthermore, if Bush can get his plan through to establish economic zones along the Mexican border, Mexicans will have less of a need to immigrate here illegally and our public services will hopefully be less strained. That will hurt the democrats and therefore it has my support.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 2:11:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MDS: Can you go to another country and pressure that country into speaking your lingo and not their native tounge? I think not.
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We do that that all over the world. I see Americans yelling at Koreans every day for not speaking good enough English. I have also lived in several other Foreign countries and seen the same thing. Children in many countries are under considerable pressure to learn English. Fluency in English is seen as the ticket to wealth, power, and prestige. Also, it is AMERICAN English, not British English, people want to learn. Adam
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 2:34:50 PM EDT
I believe that MDS jumped to a conclusion. While we do not need people that make irrational decisions and jump to conclusions, we also don't need people who jump at the chance to bash people. That is why I asked the question to try to verify his position and think about it before everyone jumped on him. Obviously it didn't work. You can get the point across without being tearing them up, just at he should not fall to judgment so quickly.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 4:35:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pipefitter: speak english or go home!
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Pipefitter, Do you speak Cherokee? You live in a state which by treaty was designated "Indian Territory" of course then it was taken back, what does Indian-giver mean? The Native Americans weren't the ones giving and then taking back. Do you speak French? Oklahoma was part of the Louisiana purchase. Originally owned by the French Government. Who were the first Europeans to settle America permanently and the emphasis is on permanent. The Spaniards. Spanish. Mexicans=Spanish+Native Americans Actually some believe that Asians were trading on the Western coast now known as Califonia long before Columbus made it to the Caribean Islands. By the way, who built the Trans-Coastal railroad which helped the settlement of the entire North-American continent. Asians and Irish for the most part, but at the time most Asians and Irish couldn't even get a drink in most bars. I guess all of us of different heritage than you and MDS should leave the country, Huh? By the way, I voted in a state election to end long term bilingual education, not because of racism exhibited by some here. I voted against bilingual education because Liberal organizations like the NEA supported it. And the funny thing is, most Hispanics I know are against long term bilingual education and believe in English immersion classes for immigrants.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 4:43:39 PM EDT
I understand all the weekly Bush speeches and all the Democratic responses from now on are going to be bilingual. Just face the facts, Hispanics are going to be the majority. Most will assimilate, but enough new Hispanic blood comes in that the #1 stations in many cities is Spanish.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:00:23 PM EDT
Adam White I believe that 16 September is actually Dia de Los Muertos-The Day of the Dead. It is a holliday where the citizens of Mexico honor their ancestors and any other relative. As for the speaking Spanish, there are a large number of Mexicans in the U.S. GW was trying to gain voters. As to why he recognized Cinco de Mayo, see above. He is trying to show respect and understanding of the Mexican People. They make up a large percentage of U.S. immigrants.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:14:48 PM EDT
HISTORY OF EL DIA DE LOS MUERTOS Dia de los Muertos, or Day of the Dead, is a celebration that captures the idea of unity between life and death. It emphasizes death as part of the cycle of life and came into being when the Catholic feast of All Souls' Day, a day to remember the dead with prayer, merged with Indian rituals of death after the Spanish conquered Mexico in 1521. Dia de Los Muertos is considered one of Mexico's most wondrous celebrations, merging Spanish and European religion and traditions with ancient beliefs and superstitions of pre-Colombian Indian cultures dating as far back as 300 B.C. The celebration for Dia de los Muertos coincides with both indigenous celebrations and the Catholic religious practices of All Saints Day (November 1st) and All Souls Day (November 2nd). In anticipation of the honored guests, the cleaning and decorating of the altars (at the grave site) traditionally occurs on October 31st. Have no idea what September 16th may be.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:15:36 PM EDT
OK - so when is Mexico's Independence Day?
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:30:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam White: OK - so when is Mexico's Independence Day?
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Mexican Independence Day September 16 Every year, September 16 is celebrated in commemoration of Mexico's first proclamation of independence from Spain in 1810. In that year, Miguel Hidalgo y Costilla, a pastor in the town of Dolores, in the state of Guanajuato, prepared the people in his area for rebellion against Spanish rule. On September 16, Hidalgo and his colleagues proclaimed the rebellion in their famous "el Grito de Dolores," (the cry of Dolores). With this insurrection, the Spanish withdrew their forces from the frontier presidios. It was not until 1821, however, that Mexico acquired its independence from Spain. Sound like you were right also. Cinco de Mayo is independence from France. September 16th is Independence from Spain. Two celebrations of Independence.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:49:27 PM EDT
from: http://www.vivacincodemayo.org/history.htm
The 5th of May is not Mexican Independence Day, but it should be ! And Cinco de Mayo is not an American holiday, but it should be. Mexico declared its independence from mother Spain on midnight, the 15th of September, 1810. And it took 11 years before the first Spanish soldiers were told and forced to leave Mexico. So, why Cinco de Mayo? And why should Americans savor this day as well? Because 4,000 Mexican soldiers smashed the French and traitor Mexican army of 8,000 at Puebla, Mexico, 100 miles east of Mexico City on the morning of May 5, 1862. The French had landed in Mexico (along with Spanish and English troops) five months earlier on the pretext of collecting Mexican debts from the newly elected government of democratic President (and Indian) Benito Juarez. The English and Spanish quickly made deals and left. The French, however, had different ideas. Under Emperor Napoleon III, who detested the United States, the French came to stay. They brought a Hapsburg prince with them to rule the new Mexican empire. His name was Maximilian; his wife, Carolota. Napoleon's French Army had not been defeated in 50 years, and it invaded Mexico with the finest modern equipment and with a newly reconstituted Foreign Legion. The French were not afraid of anyone, especially since the United States was embroiled in its own Civil War. The French Army left the port of Vera Cruz to attack Mexico City to the west, as the French assumed that the Mexicans would give up should their capital fall to the enemy -- as European countries traditionally did. Under the command of Texas-born General Zaragosa, (and the cavalry under the command of Colonel Porfirio Diaz, later to be Mexico's president and dictator), the Mexicans awaited. Brightly dressed French Dragoons led the enemy columns. The Mexican Army was less stylish. General Zaragosa ordered Colonel Diaz to take his cavalry, the best in the world, out to the French flanks. In response, the French did a most stupid thing; they sent their cavalry off to chase Diaz and his men, who proceeded to butcher them. The remaining French infantrymen charged the Mexican defenders through sloppy mud from a thunderstorm and through hundreds of head of stampeding cattle stirred up by Indians armed only with machetes. When the battle was over, many French were killed or wounded and their cavalry was being chased by Diaz' superb horsemen miles away. The Mexicans had won a great victory that kept Napoleon III from supplying the confederate rebels for another year, allowing the United States to build the greatest army the world had ever seen. This grand army smashed the Confederates at Gettysburg just 14 months after the battle of Pueblo, essentially ending the Civil War.
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Link Posted: 5/6/2001 6:50:22 PM EDT
Union forces were then rushed to the Texas/Mexican border under General Phil Sheridan, who made sure that the Mexicans got all the weapons and ammunition they needed to expel the French. American soldiers were discharged with their uniforms and rifles if they promised to join the Mexican Army to fight the French. The American Legion of Honor marched in the Victory Parade in Mexico City. It might be a historical stretch to credit the survival of the United States to those brave 4,000 Mexicans who faced an army twice as large in 1862. But who knows? In gratitude, thousands of Mexicans crossed the border after Pearl Harbor to join the U.S. Armed Forces. As recently as the Persian Gulf War, Mexicans flooded American consulates with phone calls, trying to join up and fight another war for America. Mexicans, you see, never forget who their friends are, and neither do Americans. That's why Cinco de Mayo is such a party -- A party that celebrates freedom and liberty. There are two ideals which Mexicans and Americans have fought shoulder to shoulder to protect, ever since the 5th of May, 1862. VIVA! el CINCO DE MAYO!!
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Sounds like as good a reason to party as any.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 7:18:58 PM EDT
The reason parents encourage their children to learn "American English", is purely economic, money talks and it just so happens to speak "American English". Along the same lines, do you think I'm going to purchase a firearm from a Spanish/Mexican speaking vendor, if he can't also speak English? No way! I speak English only, if he wants my money he needs to be able to communicate with me. Economics man.
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