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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:16:46 PM EDT
Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:27:04 PM EDT
Silencerco
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:31:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:33:54 PM EDT
199trust



$79 right now but you can get them as low as $49 on GearHog. I lost my confirmation email from GearHog, emailed them and the owner responded and got me all set up.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:35:09 PM EDT
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Silencerco
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I got mine from them but I am still waiting for my first form 4 to be approved. I have Paperwork for 4 suppressors and one SBR submitted.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:35:20 PM EDT
Quicken will maker with living trust software included. Hasn't let me down yet.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:36:01 PM EDT
removed...krp
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:36:13 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Quicken will maker with living trust software included. Hasn't let me down yet.
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This.

removed...krp
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:36:40 PM EDT
nfalawyers.com
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:37:47 PM EDT
removed...krp
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:39:08 PM EDT
removed...krp
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:42:16 PM EDT
Quoted:
Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?
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What is this deadline for?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:43:17 PM EDT
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Quoted:



What is this deadline for?
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Quoted:
Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?



What is this deadline for?


When trusts become obsolete
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:44:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:49:46 PM EDT
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Quoted:


When trusts become obsolete
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Quoted:
Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?



What is this deadline for?


When trusts become obsolete



No shit? What everyone has to go the CLEO route after that?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:51:43 PM EDT
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When trusts become obsolete
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Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?



What is this deadline for?


When trusts become obsolete


Not really obsolete. You will just need to provide photos and fingerprints of all trustees listed, and send notification to you local cheif LEO. Not a sign off. Just notification. So, at that point it becomes easier to do an individual than a trust.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:52:04 PM EDT
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Quoted:

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 
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removed...krp


The letter says you have till July 13 to submit paperwork and will be grandfathered in

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 



So the steps are:
1. Get trust
2. Have it notarized
3. Fill out form 1 or 4
4. Send copy of trust, form 1 or 4, and money for stamps

Are there any steps that I'm missing? And whats the current wait time?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:52:53 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I used this one: http://nfalawyers.com/
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This. He's an industry partner, you can find him in the NFA section of the EE
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:54:53 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Not really obsolete. You will just need to provide photos and fingerprints of all trustees listed, and send notification to you local cheif LEO. Not a sign off. Just notification. So, at that point it becomes easier to do an individual than a trust.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?



What is this deadline for?


When trusts become obsolete


Not really obsolete. You will just need to provide photos and fingerprints of all trustees listed, and send notification to you local cheif LEO. Not a sign off. Just notification. So, at that point it becomes easier to do an individual than a trust.


How the fuck do you notify a local CLEO? Send them a letter?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:55:16 PM EDT
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Quoted:
I used this one: http://nfalawyers.com/
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Same here, I used them because they are local here in Georgia (and extremely helpful on the phone).  In fact, I just got my packet back today, will be sending off to SBR two AR lowers this week.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:56:05 PM EDT
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Quoted:



So the steps are:
1. Get trust
2. Have it notarized
3. Fill out form 1 or 4
4. Send copy of trust, form 1 or 4, and money for stamps

Are there any steps that I'm missing? And whats the current wait time?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


The letter says you have till July 13 to submit paperwork and will be grandfathered in

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 



So the steps are:
1. Get trust
2. Have it notarized
3. Fill out form 1 or 4
4. Send copy of trust, form 1 or 4, and money for stamps

Are there any steps that I'm missing? And whats the current wait time?


I went with the silencerco trust and that is all I had to do. One store said they'd mail the paperwork, another said I had to mail it.

ETA: Wait times should be around 5 to 6 months, but they may get flooded these last few months and could take longer.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:56:10 PM EDT
Sorry to hijack guys-can you please advise on the benefits of establishing a trust?  

Is it simply for ease of transfer of NFA items to trustees (kids) upon death?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:56:16 PM EDT
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Quoted:

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:


The letter says you have till July 13 to submit paperwork and will be grandfathered in

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 


How long does a Form 3 take? Isn't that dealer to dealer?
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:57:29 PM EDT
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Quoted:


How long does a Form 3 take? Isn't that dealer to dealer?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


The letter says you have till July 13 to submit paperwork and will be grandfathered in

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 


How long does a Form 3 take? Isn't that dealer to dealer?


Normally about 2 months. But if there's a surge of people buying NFA stuff right now before the deadline then it might be 4+ months

I had a few Form 3's filed last week so I'm probably screwed
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:59:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:00:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:01:27 PM EDT
quicken will maker $10 off ebay.  Overspend if you like...
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:02:33 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Normally about 2 months. But if there's a surge of people buying NFA stuff right now before the deadline then it might be 4+ months

I had a few Form 1's filed last week so I'm probably screwed
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


The letter says you have till July 13 to submit paperwork and will be grandfathered in

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 


How long does a Form 3 take? Isn't that dealer to dealer?


Normally about 2 months. But if there's a surge of people buying NFA stuff right now before the deadline then it might be 4+ months

I had a few Form 1's filed last week so I'm probably screwed


Damnit, I have the suppressor in my cart so I have it reserved when I make my trust within the next week.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:03:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:04:04 PM EDT
K
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Quoted:


How the fuck do you notify a local CLEO? Send them a letter?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?



What is this deadline for?


When trusts become obsolete


Not really obsolete. You will just need to provide photos and fingerprints of all trustees listed, and send notification to you local cheif LEO. Not a sign off. Just notification. So, at that point it becomes easier to do an individual than a trust.


How the fuck do you notify a local CLEO? Send them a letter?



e]

Exactly. Just ask anyone who ever applied for a C&R license. I did. Sent a notification letter. My understanding was that most CLEOs threw them in the trash. Was still part of the law.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:04:54 PM EDT

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Quoted:


Quicken will maker with living trust software included. Hasn't let me down yet.
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Yep.I have multiple items on mine with a $11 investment.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:07:01 PM EDT
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e]

Exactly. Just ask anyone who ever applied for a C&R license. I did. Sent a notification letter. My understanding was that most CLEOs threw them in the trash. Was still part of the law.
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My CLEO is a huge libtard so I'm sure I'll be put on a special list or something
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:13:45 PM EDT
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  That's about it in a nutshell.


Save the original copy of your trust and keep it somewhere safe, and make clear, legible copies of it.


I scanned a .pdf of the original to myself as well and used it for form 1 e-filing.


The dealer will fill out your form 4 for whatever you're buying, you just gotta provide your trust info and answer all the questions about you not being a criminal and stuff. Form 4s need to be printed double sided, and you need to bring two copies of that along with a copy of your trust and a check for the stamp to your dealer.
 

Eta - wait times seem to be in the 4-6 month range. Probably from a rush of people buying stuff before July.


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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


The letter says you have till July 13 to submit paperwork and will be grandfathered in

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 



So the steps are:
1. Get trust
2. Have it notarized
3. Fill out form 1 or 4
4. Send copy of trust, form 1 or 4, and money for stamps

Are there any steps that I'm missing? And whats the current wait time?

  That's about it in a nutshell.


Save the original copy of your trust and keep it somewhere safe, and make clear, legible copies of it.


I scanned a .pdf of the original to myself as well and used it for form 1 e-filing.


The dealer will fill out your form 4 for whatever you're buying, you just gotta provide your trust info and answer all the questions about you not being a criminal and stuff. Form 4s need to be printed double sided, and you need to bring two copies of that along with a copy of your trust and a check for the stamp to your dealer.
 

Eta - wait times seem to be in the 4-6 month range. Probably from a rush of people buying stuff before July.




Thanks. I just ordered one from NFAlawyers should have it in 2 days. I want to have three SBR's and one pistol silencer. Can I just list two of my existing lowers and my CZ Scorpion? And for the silencer I need to go through a dealer?

Thanks for the help. I've been needing to get this done.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:13:59 PM EDT
double post
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:15:50 PM EDT
Ah how nice it must be to live in a free state
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:16:30 PM EDT
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Quoted:


How the fuck do you notify a local CLEO? Send them a letter?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?



What is this deadline for?


When trusts become obsolete


Not really obsolete. You will just need to provide photos and fingerprints of all trustees listed, and send notification to you local cheif LEO. Not a sign off. Just notification. So, at that point it becomes easier to do an individual than a trust.


How the fuck do you notify a local CLEO? Send them a letter?


Yeah... They prefer it in blue or black crayon
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:17:28 PM EDT
Correction-'
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Ah how nice it must be to live in a free state America
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Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:17:34 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Normally about 2 months. But if there's a surge of people buying NFA stuff right now before the deadline then it might be 4+ months

I had a few Form 1's filed last week so I'm probably screwed
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


The letter says you have till July 13 to submit paperwork and will be grandfathered in

As long as it's postmarked by the 13th, yes, you should be fine.

You probably won't have time for a form 3 if you were to buy something now, but form 1 or 4, yeah, you should be good.
 


How long does a Form 3 take? Isn't that dealer to dealer?


Normally about 2 months. But if there's a surge of people buying NFA stuff right now before the deadline then it might be 4+ months

I had a few Form 1's filed last week so I'm probably screwed


Why would you be screwed? You got them submitted in plenty of time.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:23:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:24:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:31:37 PM EDT
Word on the street is that the ATF is paying extra special attention to trusts right now and all of the online fillable form type trusts may not pass muster if not done right. Not saying that you can't do it yourself, but having a trust ruled void is not something you would want to have happen, especially if guns are already transferred to it.  
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:33:13 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Word on the street is that the ATF is paying extra special attention to trusts right now and all of the online fillable form type trusts may not pass muster if not done right. Not saying that you can't do it yourself, but having a trust ruled void is not something you would want to have happen, especially if guns are already transferred to it.  
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Let's all welcome negative Ned to the thread
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:34:23 PM EDT
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Why would you be screwed? You got them submitted in plenty of time.
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Typo, meant I had Form 3's filed for dealer to dealer transfer

My Form 1's should be good but I'm worried about the Form 3's
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:41:22 PM EDT
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Sorry to hijack guys-can you please advise on the benefits of establishing a trust?  

Is it simply for ease of transfer of NFW items to trustees (kids) upon death?

Thanks.
View Quote



I never saw much benefit to the trust route.

The reason most people started using a trust was to by-pass the local CLEO sign off that was required for transfers as an individual.  (Also, fingerprint cards and photo are required for individual transfer.)

Plus, you can name other people in your trust that can use the NFA items without you being present.   Which is NOT a benefit in my book.

The guns pass to your heirs easier with the trust, but it's no big deal with the individual router either, they just have to fill out a tax-free form.

I like the individual route better.  Obviously, it's less complicated and more foolproof, the owner is just my name and address, pretty hard to screw that up.

Plus I can take transfer of C&R guns on my C&R license, you cannot do that with a trust, a trust cannot be a C&R licensee.

I made a trust on quicken willmaker but I don't understand it completely and that makes it useless to me. And I won't pay a lawyer to make a trust.

But to each his own, live long and prosper.


There are some people, especially trust lawyers, that say you need to list your wife on a trust to avoid having her charged with "constructive possession."

Like when she's in the house and you're not.   That is total horseshit and a complete flat out lie, just a dumb scare tactic.


Pretty soon, the local CLEO sign-off requirement is going to be removed from individual transfers and fingerprint cards and photos will be needed for trustees.

So probably a lot of people will stop doing trusts and go the individual route, since the individual route will be technically easier at that point.


Hope this helps a bit.

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:48:11 PM EDT
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Let's all welcome negative Ned to the thread
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Word on the street is that the ATF is paying extra special attention to trusts right now and all of the online fillable form type trusts may not pass muster if not done right. Not saying that you can't do it yourself, but having a trust ruled void is not something you would want to have happen, especially if guns are already transferred to it.  


Let's all welcome negative Ned to the thread



There is a lawyer who does LLCs for NFA who says he advises all of his clients to just do the individual ownership option if they can since it's basically foolproof and legally airtight.

I never liked the ratty piece of shit trust I made with willmaker and never used it.

Kind of skeevy to put a $25,000 firearm on a legal covenant prepared by a layman.  I'm not a lawyer and I have nary a clue whether that trust is good or not.

I doubt very seriously that ATF has the manpower to sift thru everyone's trust looking for mistakes but on the other hand, if you're going to use a trust, obviously it should be 100% legally sound.

I work in heavy construction so to me a vague legal document seems like resting my nutsack in a bear trap and trusting it to not slam shut.


Now that individual transfers are going to be easier than trusts, the lawyers are going to blow out their spleen trying to convince everyone to get a trust since it's a easy $600 for them.

"If you leave the house, you must encase your suppressor in hardened concrete (with #8 rebars!) or your wife will DIE in a soviet work camp."
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:57:22 PM EDT

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Quoted:
There is a lawyer who does LLCs for NFA who says he advises all of his clients to just do the individual ownership option if they can since it's basically foolproof and legally airtight.



I never liked the ratty piece of shit trust I made with willmaker and never used it.



Kind of skeevy to put a $25,000 firearm on a legal covenant prepared by a layman.  I'm not a lawyer and I have nary a clue whether that trust is good or not.



I doubt very seriously that ATF has the manpower to sift thru everyone's trust looking for mistakes but on the other hand, if you're going to use a trust, obviously it should be 100% legally sound.



I work in heavy construction so to me a vague legal document seems like resting my nutsack in a bear trap and trusting it to not slam shut.





Now that individual transfers are going to be easier than trusts, the lawyers are going to blow out their spleen trying to convince everyone to get a trust since it's a easy $600 for them.



"If you leave the house, you must encase your suppressor in hardened concrete (with #8 rebars!) or your wife will DIE in a soviet work camp."

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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Word on the street is that the ATF is paying extra special attention to trusts right now and all of the online fillable form type trusts may not pass muster if not done right. Not saying that you can't do it yourself, but having a trust ruled void is not something you would want to have happen, especially if guns are already transferred to it.  




Let's all welcome negative Ned to the thread






There is a lawyer who does LLCs for NFA who says he advises all of his clients to just do the individual ownership option if they can since it's basically foolproof and legally airtight.



I never liked the ratty piece of shit trust I made with willmaker and never used it.



Kind of skeevy to put a $25,000 firearm on a legal covenant prepared by a layman.  I'm not a lawyer and I have nary a clue whether that trust is good or not.



I doubt very seriously that ATF has the manpower to sift thru everyone's trust looking for mistakes but on the other hand, if you're going to use a trust, obviously it should be 100% legally sound.



I work in heavy construction so to me a vague legal document seems like resting my nutsack in a bear trap and trusting it to not slam shut.





Now that individual transfers are going to be easier than trusts, the lawyers are going to blow out their spleen trying to convince everyone to get a trust since it's a easy $600 for them.



"If you leave the house, you must encase your suppressor in hardened concrete (with #8 rebars!) or your wife will DIE in a soviet work camp."

Know how I know you don't have multiple tax stamps pending on a trust?  Wait times for trusts have gone up around 2 or 3 months at least. Granted that partially is a result of 41P panic buying.



 
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:04:47 AM EDT
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Quoted:



I never saw much benefit to the trust route.

The reason most people started using a trust was to by-pass the local CLEO sign off that was required for transfers as an individual.  (Also, fingerprint cards and photo are required for individual transfer.)

Plus, you can name other people in your trust that can use the NFA items without you being present.   Which is NOT a benefit in my book.

The guns pass to your heirs easier with the trust, but it's no big deal with the individual router either, they just have to fill out a tax-free form.

I like the individual route better.  Obviously, it's less complicated and more foolproof, the owner is just my name and address, pretty hard to screw that up.

Plus I can take transfer of C&R guns on my C&R license, you cannot do that with a trust, a trust cannot be a C&R licensee.

I made a trust on quicken willmaker but I don't understand it completely and that makes it useless to me. And I won't pay a lawyer to make a trust.

But to each his own, live long and prosper.


There are some people, especially trust lawyers, that say you need to list your wife on a trust to avoid having her charged with "constructive possession."

Like when she's in the house and you're not.   That is total horseshit and a complete flat out lie, just a dumb scare tactic.


Pretty soon, the local CLEO sign-off requirement is going to be removed from individual transfers and fingerprint cards and photos will be needed for trustees.

So probably a lot of people will stop doing trusts and go the individual route, since the individual route will be technically easier at that point.


Hope this helps a bit.

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Quoted:
Sorry to hijack guys-can you please advise on the benefits of establishing a trust?  

Is it simply for ease of transfer of NFW items to trustees (kids) upon death?

Thanks.



I never saw much benefit to the trust route.

The reason most people started using a trust was to by-pass the local CLEO sign off that was required for transfers as an individual.  (Also, fingerprint cards and photo are required for individual transfer.)

Plus, you can name other people in your trust that can use the NFA items without you being present.   Which is NOT a benefit in my book.

The guns pass to your heirs easier with the trust, but it's no big deal with the individual router either, they just have to fill out a tax-free form.

I like the individual route better.  Obviously, it's less complicated and more foolproof, the owner is just my name and address, pretty hard to screw that up.

Plus I can take transfer of C&R guns on my C&R license, you cannot do that with a trust, a trust cannot be a C&R licensee.

I made a trust on quicken willmaker but I don't understand it completely and that makes it useless to me. And I won't pay a lawyer to make a trust.

But to each his own, live long and prosper.


There are some people, especially trust lawyers, that say you need to list your wife on a trust to avoid having her charged with "constructive possession."

Like when she's in the house and you're not.   That is total horseshit and a complete flat out lie, just a dumb scare tactic.


Pretty soon, the local CLEO sign-off requirement is going to be removed from individual transfers and fingerprint cards and photos will be needed for trustees.

So probably a lot of people will stop doing trusts and go the individual route, since the individual route will be technically easier at that point.


Hope this helps a bit.



It does. Thank you sir.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:05:56 AM EDT
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Quicken will maker with living trust software included. Hasn't let me down yet.
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lol
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:07:09 AM EDT
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Quoted:


How the fuck do you notify a local CLEO? Send them a letter?
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Looking at setting up a quick NFA trust to get a suppressor or two before the huge deadline. Is it correct I have till July 13th to submit the form 4?



What is this deadline for?


When trusts become obsolete


Not really obsolete. You will just need to provide photos and fingerprints of all trustees listed, and send notification to you local cheif LEO. Not a sign off. Just notification. So, at that point it becomes easier to do an individual than a trust.


How the fuck do you notify a local CLEO? Send them a letter?


The ATF is still working that out.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:07:37 AM EDT
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Know how I know you don't have multiple tax stamps pending on a trust?  Wait times for trusts have gone up around 2 or 3 months at least. Granted that partially is a result of 41P panic buying.
 
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Word on the street is that the ATF is paying extra special attention to trusts right now and all of the online fillable form type trusts may not pass muster if not done right. Not saying that you can't do it yourself, but having a trust ruled void is not something you would want to have happen, especially if guns are already transferred to it.  


Let's all welcome negative Ned to the thread



There is a lawyer who does LLCs for NFA who says he advises all of his clients to just do the individual ownership option if they can since it's basically foolproof and legally airtight.

I never liked the ratty piece of shit trust I made with willmaker and never used it.

Kind of skeevy to put a $25,000 firearm on a legal covenant prepared by a layman.  I'm not a lawyer and I have nary a clue whether that trust is good or not.

I doubt very seriously that ATF has the manpower to sift thru everyone's trust looking for mistakes but on the other hand, if you're going to use a trust, obviously it should be 100% legally sound.

I work in heavy construction so to me a vague legal document seems like resting my nutsack in a bear trap and trusting it to not slam shut.


Now that individual transfers are going to be easier than trusts, the lawyers are going to blow out their spleen trying to convince everyone to get a trust since it's a easy $600 for them.

"If you leave the house, you must encase your suppressor in hardened concrete (with #8 rebars!) or your wife will DIE in a soviet work camp."
Know how I know you don't have multiple tax stamps pending on a trust?  Wait times for trusts have gone up around 2 or 3 months at least. Granted that partially is a result of 41P panic buying.
 



I meant for them to hire lawyers to do an in-depth review of everyone's existing trust looking for all the little weird deal-breaking mistakes.

That's the beauty of the individual transfer - all you have to do is write your name and address on an ATF form.

There is nothing to screw up, the examiner will do a line-by-line check of their own form.  There is literally nothing to screw up.

The trust on the other hand, is YOUR documents, prepared by YOU.

If ATF was smart, they would have a lawyer make up a tard-proof paint by numbers trust.  Then they would gain a measure of administrative control over the trusts.


Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:12:23 AM EDT
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If ATF was smart, they would have a lawyer make up a tard-proof paint by numbers trust.  Then they would gain a measure of administrative control over the trusts.
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They would need 50 different trusts at a minimum.
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