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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/11/2001 11:17:39 AM EDT
In your opinion, what's the best ammo to to carry for LE use in my Glock 22? The department issues Gold Dot, but I'm just curious as to your opionion on this subject. Also, does anyone know of a good place to buy it over the Internet? Thanks! Ian
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 11:38:35 AM EDT
I like the 155-grain Winchester Silvertip. Gold Dot is okay, but I'd go with the 155-grain in that as well. The 180 doesn't do quite as well. Stay away from Gold Dot and Hydra-shok 165-grain rounds, they're reduced -power loads.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 11:54:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 11:57:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 11:59:17 AM EDT by Ian]
Originally Posted By Waldo: Blanks! [img]albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=183095&a=1591939&p=14692920[/img]
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Kaboom! .. That's why I'm curious to see what everyone recommends. I'm sure a Glock will not blowup with some good ammo, or at least I hope not [:)]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 12:05:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sparky315: Stay away from Gold Dot and Hydra-shok 165-grain rounds, they're reduced -power loads.
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The 165gr. Gold Dots were reduced loads but I think they've changed to a full power load a year or two ago. The 165gr. Hydra-Shoks are still a wimp load though. My personal preference is the 165gr. Rem. Golden Sabres. Following that are the choices of: Win. 165gr. SXT Speer 165gr. G.D. (full power load) Win. 155gr. Silvertips Triton has some great choices also.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 12:19:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 4:16:18 PM EDT by Kevin]
Originally Posted By Ian: Kaboom! .. That's why I'm curious to see what everyone recommends. I'm sure a Glock will not blowup with some good ammo, or at least I hope not [:)]
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Check this out - [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=28711#lastPost[/url] If you're asking what has that thread got to do w/ .40 kb's in Glock?? It has everything to do w/ kb's, kb's can happen to ANY gun! Now if you're asking, 'well why do I hear it happening to .40 Glocks so much?' Well a big part is the 'I hate Glock' & 'I hate .40' crowds. They just keep talking about the same stories or posting the same photos. When you start digging into the stories you find out it's something related to reloads or poor maintenance (failure to remove lead residue). Glock .40's are incredibly popular among competion shooters in various action events. Most competition shooters reload for these reasons: 1 - To save money. 2 - To get better, more consistent accuracy. 3 - To gain more power. If you reload you have to be very careful!! Reason #1 has kb risk because many people shoot lead bullets to save money and some try and strecth the brass into too many reloads. If you shoot lead in a factory barrel w/out properly cleaning it you have greatly increased the likelyhood of a kaboom. Same goes for reloading the same brass too many times or failing to inspect the cases. Reason #2, nothing wrong here but if a reloader finds a load he likes he could start cranking out a batch and a simple error of forgetting what powder was originally in the powder drop keg, using the wrong bullets or interruptions can cause catastropic damage to ANY fiream!!! Reason #3, is probably the single BIGGEST reason for kb's!!! Many people push the .40 to the absolute extremes to reach major power factors for competition plate shooting and other events. Any screwup here and a kb can happen. Weak brass, bullet depth seating, lead build up in the barrel, etc. could cause a kaboom! Guys testing new loads might go just a tenth of a grain too much or try a different primer or any little thing like that could cause a kaboom. There's more I could add but time is short. [i][b]Hey Waldo, KABOOM![/b][/i] [BD]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 12:45:07 PM EDT
Corbon, you just can't beat the Corbon. I'd go with the 150gr or 165gr +P. Not only did I get this expansion, but amazing penetration and weight retention as well: [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Thumbnail?u=1579439&a=12205457&p=43472439&Width=100&Height=100&Sequence=0[/img] [img]http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Thumbnail?u=1579439&a=12205457&p=43472441&Width=100&Height=100&Sequence=0[/img]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 2:50:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 3:08:20 PM EDT
Ian I have had a Glock 22 for about 2 years now and I have shot all types of ammo in it first of all NEVER use reloads for any gun your going to use to protect your self or others. Second I have only seen Glock blow up with reloads or if it happens many times as they say it does Glock would not be used by the FBI or Illinois state police department or any of the PD that use the all over the U.S.A. The round I like best has to be the Cor-bon it's recoil is not bad in the Glock even with the +P and the +P+ that I got to shot just make sure that your department well let you use it because I know a lot of PD that are picky as hell about the ammo it will let is officers use. But now what I would do to pick what one you like best is go buy a few boxes of Remington, Cor-bon, Gold dot, federal hi-shock or hydra-shock and go out and see what you can shot best with it's not the ammo that makes it a good weapon it's the shooter just see what you get the best accuracy with and what load you can handily the best and go with that one everyone has what round I think is best and it helps some times but you need to go out and shoot a few boxes of each to see what you like best and to see what round you can hit where you point the gun and not have it jump up on you to much so if needed you can take your next shot.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 3:33:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 3:45:13 PM EDT by Stg44]
You can go with what the magazine writers tell you..or you can buy off on FB1 data..or even the IWBA. I, and luckly my agency, issue the 180gr. Ranger SXT. In the next county, there have been 15 LE shootings in the past 6 years. All but 2 were DRT (dead right there) The others were stopped on the spot. This is not hearsay, I am on the training committee, and our new training coord. is a retired FBI agent. He was hired to review all of the shootings, and I have had access to all reports and autopsy results. There may be better rounds out there, but I know the SXT 180 works. The 165 SXT sucks! We used to issue it in our G22's. This was based on what the FBI says it will do. The 2 shootings we had were both failures to stop. Both were treated and released. The second one plucked the round out of his shoulder! I cuffed him, so I know. The 165gr is supposed to penetrate windshield glass better than the 180gr-well our guy was shot at 12 times, (not by me) hit once after a 90 degree shot into a 1988 Camaros windshield from the hood of the car.He then drove off, bailed out 1/2 mile away, and out ran 2 SWAT guys. while running, he plucked out the bullet. I arrived on scene as the supervisor, and it was my old fat a$$ that ended up catching him. He only needed a bandaid. The next county had a through the glass shooting with the 180gr-I saw the film off a dash cam-results=DRT. Check with agencies who use the same load you do, and ask if they have had any shootings. Then ask if they are satisfied with the results.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 4:16:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 4:18:27 PM EDT by Kevin]
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By Kevin@AR15com_1&2: [i][b]Hey Waldo, pick a finger -[/b][/i] [RED]EDITED[/red]
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Well Kevin, since it's my gun in the pic and not yours I know a little more about it than you do. And since you want to get personal. FUCK OFF ASSHOLE!
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Well Waldo, did you say one word that it was your gun? NO!! Did you say what caliber or what ammo you were using? NO!! Did you say anything about how it happened? NO!! How am I supposed to tell you from so many other Glock haters here, huh??? My post above will be edited because I don't want you to take it personally!
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 4:38:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:00:17 PM EDT
Just get a Barret model 95 and screw the sissy guns [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)] [:)]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:09:09 PM EDT
We're issued Fed Hyrda Shok 165 for G22. It is my opinion that any of the high velocity/expanding ammo is sufficient. The KEY to a successful out come is shot placement and that means training. Ammo performance reference could be the FBI study.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:16:32 PM EDT
I have been shooting and carrying the the Remington Golden Sabre in 165 grain. They are a very accurate round in my G22 and you can buy them at a reasonable price from Sportsman's Guide. Catch them with one of the 10 or 20 percent off coupons and you end up with a terriffic price. I have never had a misfire or jam with any ammo in my G22's. If you look on Remington's web page you will see the design of the bullet and the cartridge is supposed to be water resistent/proof. I like that because I carry IWB and the moisture won't effect my ammo. John
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:18:53 PM EDT
IMO, Speer Gold Dot 155gr or 165gr (both are full-power), the new bonded (LE) Remington Golden Saber 165gr, or the Hydra-Shok 155gr. The ability to effectively penetrate obstacles is a necessity in a round designed for a LE situation. Cor-Bons and Silvertips are good but I think they are better suited for CCW/off-duty use because they are more fragile and will break up quicker when going through barriers. Gold Dot and bonded Golden Saber rounds will retain their mass better due to the construction of the bullet. Also, all these rounds pack 475+ FPE from a duty-sized weapon, whereas Hydra-Shok 165gr, Silvertips and 180gr .40 S&W rounds do not. I carry Speer Gold Dot 155gr rounds in my Glock 27 with full confidence, in your Glock 22 they'd be even better.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:23:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BMANSAR15: ...Also, all these rounds pack 475+ FPE from a duty-sized weapon, whereas Hydra-Shok 165gr, Silvertips and 180gr .40 S&W rounds do not.
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155gr. Silvertips are rated at 500 or 504 FPE (can't remember off the top of my head).
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:40:21 PM EDT
Kevin@AR15com_1&2 is correct, Winchester rates the 155gr Silvertip at 1205 FPS and about 500 FPE out of a 4" barrel. However, of all the chronograph data I've ever seen, the 155gr Silvertip rarely breaks 1140 FPS/450 FPE, and that was out of a 5" Beretta 96 barrel. Out of Glock 22s, Sig P229s, and H&K USP 40 tests, the Silvertip averaged about 420-440 FPE. I'm not saying that this is bad, that is definitely still packing a wallop, but you uncovered one of my pet peeves about Winchester. Their ammo never lives up to advertised performance levels. Speer and Cor-Bon performs as advertised nearly always, Remington and Federal usually does, but Winchester rarely does. The 155gr Silvertip is a decent load, it's just not as "decent" as Winchester would lead yo to believe! [;)]
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 5:50:07 PM EDT
Gold Dot will do the job. Cor-bon 155 does it better.
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:16:13 PM EDT
When I purchased my G27 about three years ago I studied all the numbers and picked the 155 gr. Speer Gold Dot. I liked the loads from Corbon, especially the 135 gr. load. However, I made the personal decision that I just did not trust Corbon ammunition. I have absolutely no evidence that their ammo is unreliable, I just have unanswered questions. I also carry Georgia Arms loads that use the 155gr. Gold Dot. I have not re-evaluated my ammo choice since I first bought the gun so maybe there are better choices now. I've always been in the light and fast crowd so 155 gr. was about as heavy a load as I was willing to go. Have fun!
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 6:20:47 PM EDT
So does anybody the story on Waldo's KB? What caliber was it, ammo, reloads, etc.??? Kevin
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 7:30:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2001 7:29:37 PM EDT by tayous1]
All I have to say is that still it's the shooter not the ammo that counts and if your worried about bulletproof vests there is some ammo out there that is Law enforcement only ammo I can't think of the name right now but when I think of it I'll give it to you. Also remember if you shot the person and it goes in and then out and hits some else thats called murder on your part. Sorry the web site to the ammo that can defeat the bulletproof vest is www.rbcd.net
Link Posted: 6/11/2001 9:44:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stg44: You can go with what the magazine writers tell you..or you can buy off on FB1 data..or even the IWBA. I, and luckly my agency, issue the 180gr. Ranger SXT. In the next county, there have been 15 LE shootings in the past 6 years. All but 2 were DRT (dead right there) The others were stopped on the spot. This is not hearsay, I am on the training committee, and our new training coord. is a retired FBI agent. He was hired to review all of the shootings, and I have had access to all reports and autopsy results. There may be better rounds out there, but I know the SXT 180 works. The 165 SXT sucks! We used to issue it in our G22's. This was based on what the FBI says it will do. The 2 shootings we had were both failures to stop. Both were treated and released. The second one plucked the round out of his shoulder! I cuffed him, so I know. The 165gr is supposed to penetrate windshield glass better than the 180gr-well our guy was shot at 12 times, (not by me) hit once after a 90 degree shot into a 1988 Camaros windshield from the hood of the car.He then drove off, bailed out 1/2 mile away, and out ran 2 SWAT guys. while running, he plucked out the bullet. I arrived on scene as the supervisor, and it was my old fat a$$ that ended up catching him. He only needed a bandaid. The next county had a through the glass shooting with the 180gr-I saw the film off a dash cam-results=DRT. Check with agencies who use the same load you do, and ask if they have had any shootings. Then ask if they are satisfied with the results.
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Yeah, shot in the shoulder rates as a 1 shot stop candidate, uh, I don't think so. I'll go with you on the penetration through glass though, I suppose the one eighty would make a better cop round. But me? I'm no road warrior, the only reason I'm shooting is if I'm carjacked, and in that case, no glass will be nvolved.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 4:43:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tayous1: All I have to say is that still it's the shooter not the ammo that counts and if your worried about bulletproof vests there is some ammo out there that is Law enforcement only ammo I can't think of the name right now but when I think of it I'll give it to you. Also remember if you shot the person and it goes in and then out and hits some else thats called murder on your part. Sorry the web site to the ammo that can defeat the bulletproof vest is www.rbcd.net
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I don't know about you, but I wouldn't carry any ammo that would defeat my vest..... Ian
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 6:24:27 AM EDT
I prefer the Ranger 180gr SXT also. Lots of barriers and fat/jacked dudes out there. I'm more worried about not penetrating a 275lb prison body builder than I am about overpenetrating a 130lb heroin addict. Shouldn't have friendlies behind BG anyway. More likely to hit them with a miss. IMO CORBON is a good choice for a guard in a methadone clinic. The 9mm 127gr +P+ Ranger SXT was the round that caused the concern about defeating vests. It was only Spectra vests IIRC and some manufacturers pulled their Spectra vests from the market for this reason. ABA Extreme is still on the market though. Kevlar vests have no problem stopping this round however. Ticonderoga - say you are blocked in traffic at a light and a guy appears with a gun walking straight towards your car from the 2 o'clock. He says "what are you looking at?" and points the gun at you. I can think of a million possibilities for shots through vehicle glass.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 6:40:31 AM EDT
I prefer 155 gr federal, either Hydra-Shok or Hi-Shok (same, but one has a post and the other doesn't. 180 grain is fine if is factory and not re-chambered a lot. There are pretty tight tolerances with the long bullet and pressure inside the case. If the bullet gets set back, there could potentially be a problem. The KB thing is highly over publicized, but it does occasionally happen (statistically with the number of .40 cal GLOCKS out there I have seen analysis that it happens less than with other guns of other calibers, do a search on www.glocktalk.com for about 50 threads on this), but most of the time it does it is with 180 grain loads or after shooting a bunch of lead bullets. Avoid both and your chances drop off to almost nothing. One of the reasons I use 155 is that I can find 155 fmj for practice in a lot of places for reasonable prices, but not so with 165.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 6:44:32 AM EDT
RBCD .40 ammo with 77gr. projectiles? THat sounds awful light to me, even though it is moving 2000 fps. Terrible muzzle flash/noise as well. Less recoil and muzzle flip though. They seem a little too exotic for my likes- think I'll stick with Cor-Bons and Silvertips.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 9:48:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dissipator556: RBCD .40 ammo with 77gr. projectiles? THat sounds awful light to me, even though it is moving 2000 fps. Terrible muzzle flash/noise as well. Less recoil and muzzle flip though. They seem a little too exotic for my likes- think I'll stick with Cor-Bons and Silvertips.
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The ones for law enforcement can got through bulletproof vest don't need any more penetration then that and if you do you needed a rifle.
Link Posted: 6/12/2001 11:59:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 11BravoE5: I prefer the Ranger 180gr SXT also. Lots of barriers and fat/jacked dudes out there. I'm more worried about not penetrating a 275lb prison body builder than I am about overpenetrating a 130lb heroin addict. Shouldn't have friendlies behind BG anyway. More likely to hit them with a miss. IMO CORBON is a good choice for a guard in a methadone clinic. The 9mm 127gr +P+ Ranger SXT was the round that caused the concern about defeating vests. It was only Spectra vests IIRC and some manufacturers pulled their Spectra vests from the market for this reason. ABA Extreme is still on the market though. Kevlar vests have no problem stopping this round however. Ticonderoga - say you are blocked in traffic at a light and a guy appears with a gun walking straight towards your car from the 2 o'clock. He says "what are you looking at?" and points the gun at you. I can think of a million possibilities for shots through vehicle glass.
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I'd open the door and take cover behind it, or stick my gun out the window and shoot around the windshield before I shot through it. Good way to go blind shooting glass at 18"
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