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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 12/24/2003 2:34:26 PM EST
I have a friend who is destroying his life with alcohol. He's pushing away his wife and kids and he doesn't seem to care, he just drinks more. His life is no harder than anyone elses. Five short years ago he would be disgusted by the man he's turned into. According to him he just likes drinking. He can't comprehend the disease that has taken hold of him.

So I need to do something... but what. I've confronted him. Told him he's gonna lose his family, end up killing himself; told him how much he's changed. He just doesn't seem to care.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 2:41:19 PM EST
MY dad was an alcoholic, they can make life real interesting. First of all if he is still  drinking he is nothing more than a drunk, wait till he takes the cure or quits the booze before you hang the alcoholic tag on him.

Only he will know when it is time to wake up.
Sometimes you can give them a zap of reality,usally it takes something pretty damn drastic.
Good luck, his family and friends are going to need it.
I'm glad I don't drink. I hope my daughter is this way too.

Link Posted: 12/24/2003 2:42:34 PM EST
Is he still able to work?

Does his job/office offer any type of counseling or intervention?

Unfortunately, self-destruction is often the path an alcoholic has to take before they will seek help, or accept it from another.

Link Posted: 12/24/2003 2:45:48 PM EST
Ugggh, I have the exact same problem with my brother, jetlag.  It's almost verbatim.  "I just like to drink".  It sounds as bad as your friend, he doesn't understand the scope or nature of his problem.  It's not just casual drinking, or even getting buzzed, it's falling-over yourself drunk on hard liqour nearly every night.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 2:46:25 PM EST
Jetlag, I am sorry for your predicament, but, there is no help.
I just lost my brother to it.  39 years old and had the rest of his life to look forward to.  About 15 years ago we (siblings, friends, etc.) just said NO MORE.  So he left to follow his "life style choice".  He died of pnuemonia sept 11, in Florida, penniless, no health care, i don't know who he was hanging around with.  Seems like one of them shoulda' got him to the emergency room, but no....what a useless, needless death.

Anyway, There is no help, no hope.  I will carry guilt for sending him away for the rest of my life. Even though he knew i loved him.  Would always be there for him-Sober!  He could not choose that road.  It takes a lot to admit and change, he did not have that strength.  Any one of us would have helped but we could not enable any more.

I don't know what to advise but love and caring and hope he wakes up.  there is no other option.
RB
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 2:54:26 PM EST
The best thing his wife can do is take the kids and bail immediately, with the condition that they will only come back after he's been dry for 6 months or more.

That will either motivate him to get his act together, or he will self-destruct.  If he chooses to self-destruct at least the kids wont be around to experience it.

The other option is put him in an alcoholic house but that takes mucho denerio.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 3:10:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2003 5:34:21 PM EST by Troy]
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 3:11:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
The best thing his wife can do is take the kids and bail immediately, with the condition that they will only come back after he's been dry for 6 months or more.

That will either motivate him to get his act together, or he will self-destruct.  If he chooses to self-destruct at least the kids wont be around to experience it.

The other option is put him in an alcoholic house but that takes mucho denerio.
View Quote


My step-sis is in AA and it help enormously. It took mucho dinero to get her thru a rehab house, but after that AA has kept her sober and has turned her life around.

CW
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 3:23:47 PM EST
I have two younger brothers,40 and 44, both are losers.(alkies) As far as I'm concerned they are DEAD. I tried for years to get 'em to stop drinking, to no avail. F**k 'em!
AB
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 3:26:42 PM EST
My dad was a serious alcoholic, and to this day I don't know about my mom. I assume she still is.

They lost a lot - and still kept doing it.

I won't go into details here - but a tragic event happened to my dad, and he was almost killed. This is after numerous car wrecks, two divorces and on the road to a third, etc.

It really takes tragic events to knock sense into (most) alcoholics.

Like most times, [b]Troy[/b] is correct. Do not help them, you will only hurt them.

It is sad that all too often, what could have been a turnaround results in death (car accident, etc.).
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 3:26:58 PM EST
Been there, done that.... can't be done.
You can not help someone who WILL NOT try to help themselves. Only a fool keeps trying.
They have to loose more then they think the booze gives them.  I have a friend who puts his ‘jug’ before everything, to the point that they lost their house, have been evicted from 3 apts, and now live in a popup trailer moving from campground to campground. He has lost a lot, but not enough to make him change.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 3:30:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2003 3:31:36 PM EST by thecleaner]
do your best to get him thrown in jail. my band mate, got outta control. didn't listen to our advice. got a DWI. thrown in jail, violated parol, thrown into rehab for 4 months.

he's a changed man.

may not work for everybody, worked wonders for him.

all this talk about aclohol made me thirsty. BTW, i'm not an alcoholic, those guys go to meetings.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 3:31:54 PM EST


  Find a inhouse drug rehab. One that he'll have to stay in for at least thirty days.

 Pick a night to admit him.

 Take him out that evening and get him so drunk he passes out. Then drop him off at the rehab place. He'll wake up and wonder were the hell he is. This may help him. I know someone that did this to a friend. It worked.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:07:49 PM EST
Funny thing is, he works hard, gets lots of overtime, says he won't even think about drinking before or during work. He's a model employee. But any other time of day he just wants to get drunk. Says he just wants to "catch a buzz," but refuses to drink anything less than that would have him falling-down drunk. He can't explain the disparity there, except for "I guess I like to get drunk." Well, no shit. He drinks the cheapest shit he can find, whatever gets him drunk the fastest. He drinks in parking lots and driveways...

I feel like I should be able to do something... ya know? I just know he's dead if I write him off.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:14:10 PM EST
I concur with Troy's post. Most cities have an AA local office.  If you can't find one in the phone book, check the largest city near you.  They should be able to give you some information of what help is available in your area, including Alanon for the family of the alcoholic. These folks are volunteer, so be patient if you have to call a few different numbers.  If the alcoholic can't be helped, maybe the family can be helped. You are to be commended for trying to help your friend.  When I hear this all I can say is 'But for the grace of God go I'.  
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:17:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2003 4:18:32 PM EST by Cold_Warrior]
Originally Posted By Jetlag:
Funny thing is, he works hard, gets lots of overtime, says he won't even think about drinking before or during work. He's a model employee. But any other time of day he just wants to get drunk. Says he just wants to "catch a buzz," but refuses to drink anything less than that would have him falling-down drunk. He can't explain the disparity there, except for "I guess I like to get drunk." Well, no shit. He drinks the cheapest shit he can find, whatever gets him drunk the fastest. He drinks in parking lots and driveways...

I feel like I should be able to do something... ya know? I just know he's dead if I write him off.
View Quote


Get him to see a doctor.He might have some other disorder that makes him want to drink. I was so far gone with depression that I came very close to suicide; the trip to the doc and subsequent meds have turned everything around 180 degress. I'm not suggesting that meds are the cure for every situation, but something besides counseling might be in order. IM me if you want further details/thoughts.

CW
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 4:22:37 PM EST
I don't know if its possible, my girlfriends mom fell off of a HARLEY on the FREEWAY two years ago when she was schlit face drunk (true story) She's lucky to have walked away alive, but it didn't change her mind about drinking. To date, she also has THREE DUI's. When you find out what works let me know.

-Karl
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 5:12:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2003 5:14:04 PM EST by TomJefferson]
Jetlag,

First thanks for caring.  Most of the "Me" generation would just write someone off as a drunk and look down on them rather than want to help.  Shows good character on your part. Your choice of the word "Friend" is a good one for you are one.

The bad news is that if you figure something out, please share it with the rest of us for this is a problem that has plagued mankind since the grape was left in a animal skin bag for over a couple days.  

You are one lucky human being if your life has never been impacted by alcoholism.  It's an addiction like few others where many hard cores would die if they just up and stopped from the withdraw.  It changes behaviour and eventualy beliefs as the addiction becomes the most important thing in ones life.  It is a parasite that will eventually kill it's host.

The only advice I can give you is to continue to voice your concern and urge them to consider change for change must start and end with them.  To do otherwise, is to write them off and when the time comes that it takes them down if you did nothing, unless you have no concious at all, you will feel badly that you did nothing.  You won't be able to stop the feeling of not doing enough.

Tj

Link Posted: 12/24/2003 5:36:18 PM EST
To quote William Burroughs on why he shot heroin "So I can wake up in the morning and shave".  With addiction thats what your up against.  
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 5:45:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Jetlag,

First thanks for caring.  Most of the "Me" generation would just write someone off as a drunk and look down on them rather than want to help.  Shows good character on your part. Your choice of the word "Friend" is a good one for you are one.

The bad news is that if you figure something out, please share it with the rest of us for this is a problem that has plagued mankind since the grape was left in a animal skin bag for over a couple days.  

You are one lucky human being if your life has never been impacted by alcoholism.  It's an addiction like few others where many hard cores would die if they just up and stopped from the withdraw.  It changes behaviour and eventualy beliefs as the addiction becomes the most important thing in ones life.  It is a parasite that will eventually kill it's host.

The only advice I can give you is to continue to voice your concern and urge them to consider change for change must start and end with them.  To do otherwise, is to write them off and when the time comes that it takes them down if you did nothing, unless you have no concious at all, you will feel badly that you did nothing.  You won't be able to stop the feeling of not doing enough.

Tj

View Quote





I disagree with the last paragraph. The 44 year old brother I mentioned met a woman at an AA meeting, this was his first and last meeting. She was fresh out of a marrige with a $250k alimony settlement. Eight years later she was dead (sclorosis of the liver) and all the money was gone. My brother now with no money, was left to fend for himself. HE KEPT DRINKING!!?? Our whole family tried for years to get him sober. He wasn't having that. I personally gave up on him. I told the rest of the family that I considered him dead. (and no, they didn't like that much) My mother keeps having faith that he will,"come around" (she's a friggin' saint) I think he's toast. So what I'm getting at is you can do everything in your power to help these diseased people and it don't help,and then you walk away. I have no regrets at all. If they WANT help, they'll get it or die drunk.
AB
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 6:08:03 PM EST
pushing away his wife and kids...he works hard, gets lots of overtime, says he won't even think about drinking before or during work. He's a model employee.
View Quote

It sounds like to me his problem isn't alcohol.  If he can abstain 100% from having it affect his work, I don't think he has an addiction to it.  It looks like the problem is between him and his family.  He's using alcohol to escape that part of his life.  I don't think he needs AA.  He needs a family or marriage counselor.

Disclaimer: I've never known someone that was an alcoholic, and I don't even know many guys that do drink, so my opinion might be way off, but I think I'm right.z
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 6:10:17 PM EST
In my opinion, there is little or nothing you can do.  They need to hit "rock bottom".  When they lose everything, they will either get up and straighten out or lay in the gutter and die.  It's "tough love" baby.  Beating the shit out of them will do nothing but more harm.  Getting them help when they don't want it will do nothing to help them.  They need to "want" help.  Alcohol affects people differently.  Some get mean while others get funny.  Some drop out.  Others can work and control the addiction.  All you can do is offer help and wait. If the addict becomes too mean to his/her family, well, removal of the children is recommended...
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 6:13:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2003 6:17:26 PM EST by right2keep]
Well I can tell you first hand, when the pain becomes great enough he'll become willing. Just let him know that if he ever desires to get help that you'll support him. That doesn't mean bailing him out of situations he's put himself in. Any 12 step program works if you have the will to recover. You provide him with a meeting list and tell him when he's ready to give himself a break. Unfortunately some never make it to the rooms of recovery. I can assure you if left to his own demise the only ends are jails, institutions and death. I don't know if you're a religious or spiritual person but pray for him. Thats all you can do. No one can make anyone quit a life of drug or alcohol abuse, it has to be their decision. Feel free to contact me for any insight.
R2K Just for Today!
Edited to add...he sounds to be a functional alcoholic. Eventually things will change and he will LOSE EVERYTHING!
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 6:26:07 PM EST
Just one addition to the discussion: contrary to the popular myth of "they need to hit rock bottom first," YOU need to do an organized intervention NOW.

The "rock bottom" myth is just that because for many, "rock bottom" is 6 feet under.  I suggest you and his wife get with a treatment facility counselor and plan an intervention.  Do it now before it is too late.

CMOS
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:06:19 AM EST
My dad was a functional drunk from before I was born.

Three times he fucked up big-time when he was drunk.

Once was when he took me and my brothers out for ice cream when we were pre-teens and he left us in the car while he drank at a local bar for 6 hours.

Once was when we went to a local river/lake in the brand new boat he bought for the family as a present-he piled us kids and my uncle into the boat to cross the river to get more beer, vodka and whiskey.
My dad and uncle were so drunk they could barely walk, let alone pilot a boat.
They ended up ramming the dock three times, cutting across 4 mooring lines for other boats and finally driving the boat up and over a docking slip. My uncle was on the front of the boat trying to lasso a dock support post and went through the fron windscreen. The dock tiedowns ripped a couple of holes in the hull of the boat. He sold the boat a couple weeks after that.

The last time was when my two younger brothers got into a fight, they were 14 and 15, I was 16. They knocked a lamp over in the house, the noise of that finally woke him up from his drunk stupor. Before I could get to my brothers he had grabbed his belt and went after my brothers. He hit my younger across the face with the buckle end and it ripped the skin from the top of his forehead to his eyebrow.
When I got in the room he took a swing at me and whacked me in the arm. I grabbed my baseball bat and poked him when he went after my brothers. He came around at me with the belt, but this time I had stepped back and then I unloaded with the bat across his fore arm.
Me and my middle brother were then able to get him out of the room and outside in the front yard. He was so drunk that he sat down on the front lawn and passed out.
We took his keys and locked him out of the house and called for our mother.

He never fucked with us after that, and about 6 months after that he stopped drinking.

I hate fucking alcoholics.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:33:29 AM EST
Jetlag, I understand your pain and frustration firsthand, Twenty years ago [u]I[/u] was your friend. For 3 years I shunned everything and everyone for alcohol. At that time in my life I had convinced myself I had valid reasons for what I was doing. One morning I woke up and literally 'woke up'. To make a VERY long story short..

[u]He[/u] has to [i]want[/i]  to stop.


I truely hope your friend sees the light before it's too late.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:12:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 12:14:30 PM EST by 6731HBAR]
Tough position to be in.  Try to support him when you feel it will help him.  This doesn't mean rescue him.  He probably needs a certain amount of pain to "wake up", and he may never wake up.  I'v seen alcoholics consume alcohol  within 30 minutes after taking antibuse.  Talk about a sick SOB.  The guy I'm thinking of still consumed after that.  He finally killed himself in a car wreck.  Sad, but he was one of those people, that you could have chopped off his hands and he still would have found a way to pick up a beer and drink it.  Best thing you can do is go to Alanon, listen to what they have to say. I wish you  and your friend well.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:47:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 1:14:47 PM EST
I wish you lots of luck. Take it from someone who grew up with both parents being alcoholics. You can not do anthing unless they want to get the help. I left home when I was 16, I'd had it. With all the guilt trips etc. I had nothing to do with my family for along time. The one thing that I finally decided was that I could not change them,and nothing I did or said would change them either. I just excepted that this is the way they were,and I was not going to be like them. I also at this point live 3000 miles away and sometimes that is not far enough. My son has met his other grandparents,but I was not going to subject him to their drinking or their abuse.
Just don't beat yourself up over their addiction.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 2:01:06 PM EST
First off:

An "Alcoholic" is a vauge term. I will address this shortly.

My father, and I for that matter, both like our spirits. After work, on weekends, we nurse our drinks.

During/before work? Never.

Drive with our ability impared? Never. Ever. Ever.



Now, for me, and me alone:

I can handily kill 3 liters of rum a week. That's between Monday and Friday. Yes, it's a lot.

Yes, I drink a lot; I freely admit this. I also admit I *might* (and probably do) have a problem with alcohol. Can I stop drinking it? Yes. I get cranky around day 3, but around day 5, I'm fine. I feel a hell of a lot better, truth be told. I'll go months without alcohol (no joke) simply because I can't afford it, or because the events of my life at the moment require me to be stone sober at all times.

Why do I drink to such quantities? Stress, partly; being able to totally unwind within 30 minutes has a lot of appeal. I also don't get completly wasted (drooling, passing out, thyphin lek thess)...but yah, I definitily put three sheets to the wind. And as others have pointed out...I just enjoy sitting back with a vauge fog. I won't dance around it.

Now getting back to the alcoholic part...

The "classic" definition of an alcoholic is someone who cannot live or function without it. It pervades their live in every facet; work and play. Their life is spent in one way, shape, or form, in pursuit of alcohol.

I'd classify myself as an alcoholic. I cannot make any bones about that. But I also know that it has it's limits. I've become fearful over the last 6 months that I've just been doing way too much. As such, I've taken measures against it. I've actually *made a budget* for the first time in my 28 year old life. I won't spend more than $40 on alcohol during any 7-day stretch, period.  For an alcholic, this is not a good limit [;)] Hell, I can spend that for myself and workmates after work in a night. Easily.

I just wish cigarettes had the same pull on me as alcohol did [:(] It'd be so much easier to quit...

Anyway. That's my take on things. If he's hurting his family, IMO, it should be bought to his attention. Before and after shots, for lack of a better phrase. I don't have a before and after...but had I a wife/family? For me? Hell yah. Mineral water only. If I were feeling frisky, I'd drink Root Beer. That'd be it.

But that's just me.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 2:13:48 PM EST
Reasoning with an addict is like reasoning with a liberal.  
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