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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/22/2005 12:00:04 AM EDT
I was just reading the polygraph/guns thread and got to wondering. Is it possible to beat modern polygraphs? ( I personally think they are a joke, but I've never taken one.)

Can you screw up the results by thinking a lie? Something like, What color is the sky?- you answer blue, but are thinking red.

Or, think about a very traumatic event in your life and just go over the details of it during the test, that's got to do something.

Just tryin' to think of ways to mess with The Man.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:37:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 12:39:01 AM EDT by 762minigun2]
Yes they can be beat. Everytime you answer squeeze your arse cheeks
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:43:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Yes they can be beat. Everytime you answer squeeze your arse cheeks



That won't work. It will trigger the sensor on the probe. (Lie detectors have become quite sophisticated. )
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:13:11 AM EDT
If you read up on polygraphs, you'll understand why in most (if not all, IANAL) cases they are very much so inadmissable as evidence in court.

The fact that they still use them in employment screening is, IMO, bullshit. They are a scare tactic that can dissuade otherwise qualified people from applying to jobs if they know they will be polygraphed, or, if taken seriously by the employer, could potentially disqualify somebody falsely. IIRC companies/organizations that polygraph as part of their hiring process have no less theft, fraud, dishonesty, etc than those that do not. So it's a lot of effort for no tangible benefit whatsoever. IMO it's a pseudo-science that relies on psychological manipulation and intimidation, both of which are not any way to start an employer-employee relationship (but, incidentally, is a good way to end one).

The only thing they're really good for is for interrogating someone. They add a not insignificant amount of pressure on someone to fess up. Interrogating job candidates, however, is bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:33:50 AM EDT
I recalled reading an article on this subject so I did a
little Googling on what I remembered .

Some drugs , like the Beta Blocker propranolol along Valium and Ritalin
can be used in combination to defeat polygraphs and other forms of stress
response testing .

There are also non drug techniques like training with a bio feedback
device or using thought disassociation , where you think of random
objects and places while answering questions . These techniques
often result in an inconclusive results , instead of passing results like the
can drugs produce .
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:36:04 AM EDT
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:37:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dawg_killer:

Originally Posted By 762minigun2:
Yes they can be beat. Everytime you answer squeeze your arse cheeks



That won't work. It will trigger the sensor on the probe. (Lie detectors have become quite sophisticated. )



I know....... I was being stupid
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:53:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:00:14 AM EDT
Other than cost, I wonder why they don't use the voice stress analysis machines instead of "lie" detectors. Probably be alot more accurate and harder to beat.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:12:30 AM EDT
It's only a lie if you believe it's a lie. If you truely believe every answer you give they will all be truths.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:17:33 AM EDT
I know someone that beat it. Or at least I know he passed it and I'm 99% sure he lied doing it. Of course this man is a very good liar.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 11:26:01 AM EDT
four tricks to being a good liar:

1. convince yourself that your lie is true.

2. remember, don't invent.

3. don't fear the interrogator. a polygraph is only as effective as the examinee thinks it is. all it detects is physical signs of stress--it can't get inside your head.

4. smile. it sounds absurd, but it works.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:49:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



In a way, you were trying to beat it. They don't want you to relax. They want to fucking interrogate you.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:56:50 PM EDT
The best way to beat them is to refuse to take them. There isn't a shred of evidence that any of these "lie-detecting" techniques are really able to detect lies. They are complete bullshit.

Several years ago a news show did a test. They had one of their employees take a camera from the office. Then they hired four different lie detector "experts" and brought them in to test all the employees and find the one that had "stolen" the camera. They missed the correct person in every case. In every case, they picked the person that they had been told was the prime suspect.

It is pseduo-science, just like quack medicine. If somebody asks you to take one, tell them you want an attorney first.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:57:00 PM EDT
If you believe the Polygraph works, do you believe in Pinocchio too? Aldrich Ames didn't, that is why he passed both the PGs he took after he was selling secrets to the USSR.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 3:57:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



I had the same problem with the same polygrapher.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:01:39 PM EDT
In the words of George Costanza... "It's not a lie if you believe it!"
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:04:29 PM EDT
lumpy, you are the last man here I thought would consent to a polygraph in the first place. it's all their fucking game. you always lose their game
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:09:26 PM EDT
I know people that have lied their way thru and people who've failed with nothing to hide. Poly's are bullshit. If you ever meet a polygrapher, ask him how effective it was in catching Aldrich Ames or Robert Hansen.

I know I've got one coming up. I don't have anything to lie about, but I also know an ex-Marine buddy of mine, devout Christian, straight as an arrow, who failed the poly for two different .gov agencies and is now going back to college to so he can find a new career. Pisses me off just thinking about it-like being forced to play Russian roulette with your dreams.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:10:04 PM EDT
They can certainly be beat. I should know. I also know that they can give false positives also.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:12:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lennster:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



I had the same problem with the same polygrapher.

what the hell did you guys do to get a polygraph in Tempe?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:16:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Pisses me off just thinking about it-like being forced to play Russian roulette with your dreams.



That's why I refuse to play. It's not worth my time or effort to get flagged and shit on because John Travolta's E-meter lit up on me - fuck 'em and their stupid toys.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:20:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 52brandon:

Originally Posted By Lennster:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



I had the same problem with the same polygrapher.

what the hell did you guys do to get a polygraph in Tempe?





Probably as part of the hiring process.



I hated the one I took for Mesa PD. Bunch of fuckin' nonsensical neo-voodoo.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:21:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By METT-T:
Pisses me off just thinking about it-like being forced to play Russian roulette with your dreams.



That's why I refuse to play. It's not worth my time or effort to get flagged and shit on because John Travolta's E-meter lit up on me - fuck 'em and their stupid toys.



Yeah, but unfortunately if you want to go to work in certain fields, you gotta.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:59:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 52brandon:

Originally Posted By Lennster:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



I had the same problem with the same polygrapher.

what the hell did you guys do to get a polygraph in Tempe?



Applied for a job.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:05:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 5:07:29 PM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By Lennster:

Originally Posted By 52brandon:

Originally Posted By Lennster:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



I had the same problem with the same polygrapher.

what the hell did you guys do to get a polygraph in Tempe?



Applied for a job.




Same here.

The guy with the salt and pepper hair helmet and the black wingtips?



Originally Posted By ElCamino:
In a way, you were trying to beat it.



Maybe
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:06:41 PM EDT
I have been curious, what effect does someone with a heart condition have on the test.

Like atrial fibulation and a wildly fluctuating blood pressure?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 5:10:28 PM EDT
Aldrich Ames and John Walker Jr both beat polygraph tests designed to catch spies, Ames more than once. IIRC he had asked russian handlers for a sure fire method or substance to defeat the polygraph and thier only advice was "relax" ,or in effect, dont get worked up over it and repeat the probable questions and your responses over and over agian in your head to yourself until you are completely comfortable with the questions and answers. Worked for him --even after he was caught polygraph tests were inconclusive at best on Ames.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:34:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Lennster:

Originally Posted By 52brandon:

Originally Posted By Lennster:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



I had the same problem with the same polygrapher.

what the hell did you guys do to get a polygraph in Tempe?



Applied for a job.




Same here.

The guy with the salt and pepper hair helmet and the black wingtips?


yep. you know what was funny about it?

I forgot to turn off my cell phone before the test. It was set to vibrate and ring. One of my friends called me during the test and ... well ... my phone rang ... and vibrated. The test equipment is very sensitive. That tester was not very happy at me. We had to start all over because he said the readings went off the chart.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:38:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



Yep. I think I had the same guy rake me over the coals. Bastard.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:42:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:45:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:49:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:52:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
all you could ever want to know about them....

antipolygraph.org/



Beat me to it TBS. Excellent website. I went there a few times for...um....research..
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:09:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:14:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
all you could ever want to know about them....

antipolygraph.org/


+1
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:53:52 AM EDT
I saw two career criminals beat them. These fuckers were dirty, we knew it, they knew it, but they sure as hell passed with flying colors.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:02:25 AM EDT
Tell the truth.

Works rvrey time.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:02:57 AM EDT
Tell the truth.

Works every time.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:16:04 AM EDT
There is some Bs in these "lie-detectors." ONe guy I know was rejected by a local PD because he failed the lie-detector test. That is BS, because this guy is straight as an arrow.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:18:49 AM EDT
I learned, unfortunately AFTER my CIA interview, that all you have to do is simply be consistent in your answers. Never deviate from your answers, regardless of whether you are telling the truth or not.

Simple.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:27:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 11:56:51 AM EDT by Lumpy196]

Originally Posted By slash-5:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A polygrapher from Tempe PD told me he thought I was trying to beat the test by controlling my breathing. I said I was trying to relax. He asked why. DUH, Im taking a fucking polygraph.



Yep. I think I had the same guy rake me over the coals. Bastard.




That guy was wound a liiiiiiiiittle too tight.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:28:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By john575:
Tell the truth.

Works every time.



Unfortunately, it doesn't.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:32:53 AM EDT
Practice lying all the time. To everyone. Get the lies so mixed up with the truth and half truths your body will always give out mixed signals. That will be your bodys normal result. And people who give the polygraph always think EVERYONE lies.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:36:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Place a small stone in your shoe, press down on it while they are calibrating the polygraph, they will take the increased 'stress' from the pain the stone is causing you as the baseline, when they start the questions stop pressing down on the stone… simple really, and the reason no one else uses them.



+1

I have also heard using a tack placed in the shoe under the big toe works if your REALLY guilty.

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:38:40 AM EDT
in the criminal justice setting, the only thing the polygraph is good for is scaring the test subject into a post-polygraph confession. I've been told that by multiple polygraphers.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 1:50:57 PM EDT
Check this out, and make up your own mind.

http://antipolygraph.org

I've taken a couple of pre-employment polygraphs. They were run EXACTLY like the web site said they are. Same questions, and scare tactics. It's nothing more than a high stress interogation.
The operator's goal is to make you admit to lying. That gives them a reason to disqualify you.
The best way to beat the system is to avoid taking the "Test".
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:10:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By john575:
Tell the truth.



Works every time.



Bullshit. If that were true, I wouldn't have any qualms with polys. But as I said, I know a guy, 8 years active duty Marines, got his degree while he was in, married, two kids, heavily involved in his church, Boy Scouts, hardly even drinks-straightest arrow in the quiver. He failed three different polys from PDs, two from one agency and one from another. Said he was a drug dealer and a thief.

I know another guy who failed for a fire department who swears up and down he wasn't lying but I don't know him well enough to say for sure. I don't have any reason to disbelieve him, tho.

'Course I know a bunch of people that had nothing to hide and went thru just fine. But telling the truth doesn't work every time. Period.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:28:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 2:29:17 PM EDT by Gregory_A]
It's only a lie if you believe it's a lie.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 2:42:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gregory_A:
It's only a lie if you believe it's a lie.



Actually it's only a lie if your polygrapher believes it's a lie-based on his or her entirely subjective interpretation of certain physiological metrics which may or may not be related to your emotional state which, in turn, may or may not be related to whether or not you're telling the truth.
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