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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/10/2005 9:57:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2005 9:57:45 AM EDT by Mike_Mills]
Never go into bear country without a 12 gage filled with slugs, EVER!


Bear Attack Survivor Saved His Daughter
September 10, 2005 6:52 AM EDT
SEATTLE - Even as Johan Otter felt the grizzly tear at his scalp, he said his greatest concern was for his 18-year-old daughter. The two were hiking last month in Glacier National Park in Montana when a bear attacked him to protect her cubs.

Otter, of Escondido, Calif., understood the impulse: "Don't get to my daughter," he recalls thinking during the Aug. 25 attack. "Just stay with me."

His daughter, Jenna, came away from the attack with only a bite on the heel, a shoulder injury and some facial lacerations.

By the time Otter arrived at Harborview Medical Center here about 10 hours later, his scalp was gone and his skull exposed. He expects his recovery to take about 10 weeks.

Other injuries from the five-minute attack: five fractured vertebrae, three broken ribs, a fractured eye socket, five major bites over his body and a broken nose, doctors said.

Otter, a 44-year-old physical therapist, was upbeat Friday as he spoke with reporters, even though he was in a wheelchair with his head supported by a metal "halo" as part of the treatment of his vertebrae injuries.

He said numerous signs along the trail warned that they were in bear country and that one should tuck into a fetal position if attacked. He said that advice saved their lives.

Otter and his daughter were about an hour and a half into an early morning hike when he saw Jenna take two steps back and heard her say, "Oh, no."

The bear went straight at Otter's thigh and jostled him around.

"This bear is right at me and mouth wide open," he said. "You see the fangs, you see the huge claws."

At least one of the claws went into his face and his right eye, he said. After he fell off the trail, Otter said the bear followed him and continued the attack, climbing on top of him.

Otter curled into a fetal position and tried to protect his head with his arms. Still, "I could feel the tooth going in" his head, he said.

After the bear left, Otter and his daughter yelled for help until a hiker discovered them about 45 minutes later.

Dr. Nicholas Vedder, chief of plastic surgery at Harborview, said he was amazed at the "giant teeth marks down the bone" on Otter's body. Still, he said, Otter should make a full recovery.

Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:01:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 10:05:55 AM EDT
Everyone makes their own choices. You can go or stay away. You can comply or not comply.

If you choose go into grizzly country you'd better go armed with a 12 gage slug gun or be prepared to die. It's as simple as that.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 11:14:48 AM EDT
So, you guys think he's going to buy a gun once he recovers?
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 12:23:14 PM EDT
This happened to me, now about 4 weeks ago.
Due to numerous and increasingly frequent past encounters I never go out unarmed.


Now I have had plenty of close encounters with predators up here, especially Black Bear. Today, I get out on remote walking trail and my dog runs down a hill to a creek to get some water. At least that's what I think. All of a sudden it is very quiet and then some ruckus( more than one animal). I can't see anything but then I hear a lot of scraping. I look at the direction it is coming from and there are 2 bear cubs climbing a tree. About a second later all Hell breaks loose. And the racket is moving up hill towards me, fast. Aw shit, I am thinking as I clack the selector and bring my rifle up. They are both now visible coming up the hill right at the trail about 15m ahead of me. The Sow is about 6ft behind my dog who hits the trail and turns right for me. By now the Sow has turned and is coming right at me, only a foot or two behind my dog and swiping at her as she runs, snarling and snapping. Fucking thing is really pissed. Dog is right in front and is about 1/3 the height of the bear. 10m. Dog is a little on the left side of the bear and my first shot is just over her and into the right low chest. The sow drops about an inch and is recovering her stride as I am squeezing for the second shot and my dog crosses in front turning right to get around a bush. Bang! Second shot left upper chest as the bear is turning, with the angle of shot right at the vitals. Now turning more, she is almost turned in the front half and my 3rd shot is right behind the shoulder, again into the vitals. First 3 shots in under 1 second. Sow rolls onto her back, thrashes and then rolls forward onto her haunches, extends her neck out and takes one last roar. Bang, bang. Double tap to the neck. One in the vessels, second up into the C-spine.

If I had been unarmed I'd be digesting right now, no question at all in my mind. That bear was pissed and wasn't stopping for shit. I don't think even a handgun would have been sufficient at all. At the least my dog would be dead and I'd have been badly wounded.

Training paid off big time though. No panic, no hesitation, stayed cool. When it was obvious it was kill or be killed I did the job in fine fashion. Pissed at my dog though. The Sow only did what she had to from her perspective and I felt sick to my stomach with each squeeze of the trigger. Damn shame to kill something for nothing.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 12:33:51 PM EDT
PKM equipped MG squad with 4 belts of ammo. At the least, with a group of 75mm pack artillery over the hill

You can take Black bear with an AK, wonder about grizzly....
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 12:35:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
So, you guys think he's going to buy a gun once he recovers?




It's always rare to witness the birth of a conservative in the wild.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 12:44:36 PM EDT
It's a National Park, so I don't think they allow firearms. And it's hard to be covert with a 12-guage.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 12:50:59 PM EDT
I wonder if an AR10A2 carbine with a 20 round mag would stop a grizzly.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 1:06:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgredo:
It's a National Park, so I don't think they allow firearms. And it's hard to be covert with a 12-guage.





+



+

"Concealed means concealed"
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 1:20:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By doorgunner:
A 12 gauge slug gun, a .44 magnum, and a very sharp knife with about a 6-inch blade. But that isn't going to happen on a federal park. I'm not too keen on the gubment telling me to lay there and take a mauling! So therefore, I don't patronize US Park facilities.



Especially since so many are tied in with the United Nations....



Look up UNESCO on the Internet and see how much land in the United States actually
belongs to the "World" now through international treaties.



LB
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 1:26:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 1:30:40 PM EDT
I am getting ready to go Elk hunting. As a back up to my 50 cal muzzle loader I plan on taking a .45 long Colt with Cor-Bon Magnum +P loads. They are 300 grns at 1100fps. Is this near enough gun for bear defense? How about bear spray? Does it work?

Thanks
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 1:32:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC_LB:
Look up UNESCO on the Internet and see how much land in the United States actually
belongs to the "World" now through international treaties.

Guys, I've seen this before. It's a real estate scam! We pay our taxes to the Feds, the Feds send money to "support" (pay) the UN, they both agree to a "treaty" (contract) to turn the park into "public" (world gov't controlled) property. This is BS! National Parks should be free to US taxpayers and our right to bear (heh) arms should extend to Park lands.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 1:33:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mcgredo:
It's a National Park, so I don't think they allow firearms. And it's hard to be covert with a 12-guage.



Serbu Super Shorty.

Wild animals and two-legged predators are exactly the reason why I carry a .357 Magnum on my hip at all times on our ranch.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 1:39:03 PM EDT
That is why I would rather hike in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. You can bring protection.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 3:03:14 PM EDT
just out of curiosity would a .357mag work? Reason I ask is ive been looking at a S&W 627.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 3:10:10 PM EDT
I believe a 357, even with the best "bear loads", would be considered inadequate for a charging grizzly bear. .44 magnum or more is the minimum according to conventional wisdom. A shotgun with slugs is considered optimal due to the stopping power they present.

A 357 with heavy, hard bullets that are accurately placed in the target would be WAAAAYYY!!!! better than nothing.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 3:21:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:
This happened to me, now about 4 weeks ago.
Due to numerous and increasingly frequent past encounters I never go out unarmed.



Wow. What kind of rifle?
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 3:27:33 PM EDT


The downloaded pictures are of a man who works for the US Forest Service in Alaska and his trophy bear.

He was out deer hunting last week when a large grizzly bear charged him from about 50 yards away. The guy emptied his 7mm Magnum semi-automatic rifle into the bear and it dropped a few feet from him. The big bear was still alive so he reloaded and shot it several times in the head.

The bear was just over one thousand six hundred pounds It stood 12' 6" high at the shoulder, 14' to the top of his head. It's the largest grizzly bear ever recorded in the world.

Of course, the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Commission did not let him keep it as a trophy, but the bear will be stuffed and mounted, and placed on display at the Anchorage airport to remind tourists of the risks involved when in the wild.


Based on the contents of the bears stomach, the Fish and Wildlife Commission established the bear had killed at least two humans in the past 72 hours including a missing hiker.

The US Forest Service, backtracking from where the bear had originated, found the hiker's 38-caliber pistol emptied. Not far from the pistol was the remains of the hiker. The other body has not been found.

Although the hiker fired six shots and managed to hit the grizzly with four shots (the Service ultimately found four 38 caliber slugs along with twelve 7mm slugs inside the bear's dead body), it only wounded the bear and probably angered it immensely.

The bear killed the hiker an estimated two days prior to the bear's own death by the gun of the Forest Service worker.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 4:11:04 PM EDT

Although the hiker fired six shots and managed to hit the grizzly with four shots (the Service ultimately found four 38 caliber slugs along with twelve 7mm slugs inside the bear's dead body), it only wounded the bear and probably angered it immensely.


Can you even imagine?
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 4:23:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Linea_de_Fuego:

Although the hiker fired six shots and managed to hit the grizzly with four shots (the Service ultimately found four 38 caliber slugs along with twelve 7mm slugs inside the bear's dead body), it only wounded the bear and probably angered it immensely.


Can you even imagine?


No offense dude, but this bear attained "urban legend" status a long time ago. Check here:

URBAN LEGEND BEAR
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 4:34:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Echo_Hotel:

Originally Posted By Linea_de_Fuego:

Although the hiker fired six shots and managed to hit the grizzly with four shots (the Service ultimately found four 38 caliber slugs along with twelve 7mm slugs inside the bear's dead body), it only wounded the bear and probably angered it immensely.


Can you even imagine?


No offense dude, but this bear attained "urban legend" status a long time ago. Check here:

URBAN LEGEND BEAR



Not an Urban Legend at all, just a few of the details were incorrect and the size of the bear slightly exaggerated.

Awesome story. Lots bigger than my bear.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 4:40:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Not an Urban Legend at all, just a few of the details were incorrect and the size of the bear slightly exaggerated...


The "urban legend" aspect of the story, in my mind, comes from the tales of said bear being full of people parts. As far as anyone knows the bear in question never killed or ate anyone.

That said, yeah he's a big bear, it's just that he gets biiiiiiiger with each passing year.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:18:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SNorman:

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:
This happened to me, now about 4 weeks ago.
Due to numerous and increasingly frequent past encounters I never go out unarmed.



Wow. What kind of rifle?



+1

Dude, what kind of rifle? Ammo? Load? Unless you can't tell us. I'm not sure I would run to Fish & Game if I shot a bear out of season. They could care less if it was self-defense or not.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:23:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 5:48:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Echo_Hotel:

Originally Posted By Rebel_Marine:

Not an Urban Legend at all, just a few of the details were incorrect and the size of the bear slightly exaggerated...


The "urban legend" aspect of the story, in my mind, comes from the tales of said bear being full of people parts. As far as anyone knows the bear in question never killed or ate anyone.

That said, yeah he's a big bear, it's just that he gets biiiiiiiger with each passing year.



Don't they all!
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 6:03:56 PM EDT
Hard to say whether I'd Shit first or Shoot first....
Damn big bear

myit
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 6:21:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC_LB:


Especially since so many are tied in with the United Nations....

personal.ashland.edu/~rstoffer/GSM/Pictures/Sign2.jpg

Look up UNESCO on the Internet and see how much land in the United States actually
belongs to the "World" now through international treaties.



LB




Here is the list:


United States of America
Mesa Verde (1978)
Yellowstone (1978)
Everglades National Park (1979)
Grand Canyon National Park (1979)
Independence Hall (1979)
Kluane/Wrangell-St Elias/Glacier Bay/Tatshenshini-Alsek (1979, 1992, 1994) *
Redwood National Park (1980)
Mammoth Cave National Park (1981)
Olympic National Park (1981)
Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site (1982)
Great Smoky Mountains National Park (1983)
La Fortaleza and San Juan Historic Site in Puerto Rico (1983)
Statue of Liberty (1984)
Yosemite National Park (1984)
Chaco Culture National Historical Park (1987)
Hawaii Volcanoes National Park (1987)
Monticello and the University of Virginia in Charlottesville (1987)
Pueblo de Taos (1992)
Carlsbad Caverns National Park (1995)
Waterton Glacier International Peace Park (1995) *
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