Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 9/30/2004 5:15:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 5:16:55 PM EST by Zippy_The_Wonderdog]
In the realm of popular opinion, who do you feel will come out as the victor of tonights debate?
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:17:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 5:18:03 PM EST by ARDunstan]
I don't "feel".
I think.
Big difference.
I think kerry is coming across as more polished,
but still polishing a great big turd.
The people will give kerry the thumbs up for this one.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:19:48 PM EST
I think Kerry is going to get a sizable bounce out of this...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:20:57 PM EST
Agreed. I am pessimistic of the masses...I think they feel more than think....which is why I phrased my poll the way I did.

I fear that people vote with their feelings more than their thoughts...or lack thereof.


Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
I don't "feel".
I think.
Big difference.
I think kerry is coming across as more polished,
but still polishing a great big turd.
The people will give kerry the thumbs up for this one.

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:29:29 PM EST
I'm sayin' GW.

Reason is, (And this'll come off as sexist as HELL. whatever) this debate is is for the Ladies. Kerry has agreed with too many of Bush's points to make an alternative argument and that's what's going to drive perception of this debate in the next couple of days.

'course, I fully expect to see the "Doom-and-gloomers" come out in droves after this but give it a day or two to mature people, Kerry's arguments are comming off as unrealistic and unatainable ("Wrong war, wrong time, wrong place....." BUT, I'll convince France and Germany [Co-Conspirators with Sadams regime] to commit THEIR young people to this "cuase").

Anyway, I think we won this one.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:42:18 PM EST
They're both so good, I can't decide!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:44:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mouch:
They're both so good, I can't decide!



Let me help..... Bush
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:45:56 PM EST
W held his ground, Kerry has nothing to lose. If he loses this race, he still can rule Mass for years to come. I felt it is easy to snipe the Prez, but Kerry slept well after all his senate voting in his carreer because he had no outfall. Bush sweated every day and night as prez and the focus of the country was upon him.

One had heat for the last few years, the other just did a job and enjoyed home life for 25 yrs plus.

Didn't Kerry's wife look fat tonight?

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:46:57 PM EST
I don't think either one landed any big punches, but maybe that will change if the media grabs a soundbite that gets some traction. GW stayed on message, but I think JK will be viewed as more "polished".
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:49:09 PM EST
no big win for either, i would give President Bush the slight edge b/c he did so well in the first 20-30 min. (after which most people prob. had enough) and changed the channel
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:50:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
I think Kerry is going to get a sizable bounce out of this...



Kerry may have won the debate, but
not enough to garner a "bounce".

My guess.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:51:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 5:52:39 PM EST by MrKasab]
I dont think Bush came off as prepared, seemed like he had to think a lot instead of reacting. A lot of pauses. Kerry seemed to almost always look down when Bush spoke and to me it seems like Kerry didnt want to face what was being said. Bush did throw in some slights that made him look like the better man without being insultive, which I thought was very intelligent. But its all opionion
Edited to add: It made me proud for Bush to say all we have gone through in Afganistan and Iraq was worth it.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:52:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:53:32 PM EST
In the publics(read most voters who don't follow issues) uninformed eyes Bush took it up the ass .....HARD!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:56:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrKasab:
I dont think Bush came off as prepared, seemed like he had to think a lot instead of reacting.



Actually, thoughtfulness is a great characteristic of leaders. Bush was actually considering the question and pulling responses from within.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:57:14 PM EST
Very disappointed in GDub. He should have hammered Kerry more on Iraq, Iran, North Korea and his voting record.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:00:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
I think Kerry is going to get a sizable bounce out of this...



Kerry may have won the debate, but
not enough to garner a "bounce".

My guess.


agreed. though i wouldn't call it a 'win' for kerry. President Bush did much better in the first 20-30 minutes of the debate.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:00:26 PM EST
Bush.

However I think he allowed Kerry to fluster him and he showed way to much emotion. It's good to get fired up about protecting America, but I think it made him look reactionary rather than prepared.

Bush won this by a small margin. He won't let the next debate turn out the same now that he has a better understanding of the oppositions tactics.

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:00:58 PM EST
Kerry simply because he was a better speaker.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:02:29 PM EST
Doesn't matter much in the end. Kerry still has to stand on his shitty record. Far too much is made of these debates anyway.

Kerry is an accomplished debater with a long record of BS as a lawyer and in the Senate. Bush is a businessman a straight shooting dude who doesn't try to nuance his words.

Kerry should win all of the debates. Dont' mean he'll be a better president by a long shot.

Bush still wins.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:03:45 PM EST
GWB was supposed to be strong on this topic and this debate was his to take and demoralize kerry. When kerry held his own, or some might argue did better, kerry came out on top. This will energize the democrats and possible sway some undecideds.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:07:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
no big win for either, i would give President Bush the slight edge b/c he did so well in the first 20-30 min. (after which most people prob. had enough) and changed the channel



That is the first positive thing that I've heard about the debate, that is believeable, and not based on our prejudice.

The bottom line is Bush didn't do well.
But the first part was pretty good.
If most watched the first 30 min's, we'll be fine.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:08:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
I think Kerry is going to get a sizable bounce out of this...



+1



I would be very surprised if Kerry isn't up by 3-5% by next week.

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:09:17 PM EST
I say Pres. Bush because Kerry told so many lies in the debate. They will be documenting his lies for weeks to come. One big one is blaming Bush for North Korea's nukes which were already being assembled when Clinton was President. Another is for saying there was "no plan". There certainly were multiple plans and they were put into action.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:14:16 PM EST
Pardon my french ... but shit.

I'm going to say this very honestly ... Bush kinda dropped the freaking ball. I think he spent way too much of his time re-stating things he had already said. (wrong war, wrong place, wrong time, etc) It really felt like he was stumbling a few times and I hate to even contemplate admitting this, but Kerry came across as very, very well read and prepared for whatever was coming.

However, even though I think Kerry presented better ... I do still believe that Bush's determination, strength, and ultimate goal is what the American people will get behind and support come election time. Bush has NEVER been that great of a public speaker, but actions are way better than words and he's very good at getting done what needs to be done. His record will speak for itself where he didn't necessarily speak his best.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:16:53 PM EST
Small move in polls possible.
Won't last as democratic platform will drag Kerry along to defeat.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:17:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I say Pres. Bush because Kerry told so many lies in the debate. They will be documenting his lies for weeks to come. One big one is blaming Bush for North Korea's nukes which were already being assembled when Clinton was President. Another is for saying there was "no plan". There certainly were multiple plans and they were put into action.

GunLvr



THAT's the one thing I got pissed at GW over. He should've hammered away at Maddie "Half-Brite's" impression of Kim Il sung as "Charming" while the Clinton administration was SELLING this technology to those F*cker's!

Jesus Ghod, they're EATING children in the 'workers Paradise" of NK these days and the Dim' conection with them found their (DEAR) leader "Charming".

Fuck me!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:18:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
I think Kerry is going to get a sizable bounce out of this...



+1



I would be very surprised if Kerry isn't up by 3-5% by next week.


no way.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:18:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 6:20:25 PM EST by Treadhead]
My bad. Double posted this
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:23:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
I think Kerry is going to get a sizable bounce out of this...



+1



I would be very surprised if Kerry isn't up by 3-5% by next week.


no way.



I agree with Absolut. I don't think THAT many people were watching the debate.

I consider myself to be interested in politics, and I had to really resist the urge to change the channel!

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:26:47 PM EST
The masses will think kerry won tonight and he will get a bounce in the polls.
Luckily we have a month before the election giving him plenty of time to step on his own dick.
I hope his wife gets a lot of face time with the media and alienates a lot of voters.
Chaney needs to wipe the floor with the breck girl next week.

ARH

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:28:11 PM EST
This debate served its purpose and it was the correct purpose.

The debate framed the issue clearly.

Mr. Bush intends to stay the course and continue as we have been, going it alone.

Mr. Kerry wants to engage European nations to provide assistance to reduce US costs and involvement.

The independent voter will decide which course is better for America.

I still don't understand why we don't clean out Falluja and that was a big point for Kerry. Its hard to believe that our current policy allows safe haven for terrorists within Iraq. I think that hurts Mr. Bush and is obvious.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:41:32 PM EST
What do you mean by masses?

The majority of the people in the USA, you know working stiffs like you and I, will be voting for Bush. No debate will change that fact.

However if by masses you mean the people in media, both on TV and in print, and the people who are led around by the rings through their noses by the media, then Kerry will come out on top.

The media will never give up on their candidate till they have to report that he lost by the widest margin in Presidential election history.

You heard it here first.

Popular vote:

Bush 63%
Kerry 37%

Electoral vote:

Bush 369 votes
Kerry 169 votes
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:46:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 6:48:25 PM EST by Boomholzer]
Bush did'nt re-interate that HE DID approach the UN. He DID look to the world. He had a point stated over and over (against him) owned and did'nt take advantage of it. I agree he can not point fingers but he let himself be prosecuted for it. What would Kerry have done after having no one to join his club? Stuck his face in the dirt?
He redundantly stated he would work for a [new] coalition but, I ask where! Especially now!

NO where, with Bush, did any world history come into play. Without the history of world politics, some say; the best decisions for the future can not be made. Kerry had a few references to past Military adventures (even besides his personal Vietnam)......all revolving about the US's past victories, but they were insignificant against the powerful theme of terror.
Bush (probably under advice) did not elaborate on all the positives of a successful campaign in Iraq relative to the rest of the middle-eastern affairs. He also failed to make a connection in a single statement of the connection to American security AND a hand to offer freedom to the world. And with a previous post, died on N Korea. This goes with more text below.

Kerry pounded Bush on that Bin Laden was not part of the Iraq campaign and Bush failed to tell America on how his "strong resolve" would ultimatetly effect not only Iraq but, much of the middle east. Kerry use pre-emptive strike a few times. Bush, could have elaborated on the argument that that initial movement was all for Bin Laden and there was fruit from it. Bush and America have a short memory.

Bush also dropped the ball on Kerry mis-knowledge of nuclear power vs. nuclear weapons. Bush got the elements correct in rebuttal. Still, he could have really rubbed that in. Removing fuel rods? For what? A uncontrolled local meltdown?

Kerry went stateside on firetrucks and police officers, local governmental affairs at most, and Bush was dumbfounded in correcting him. After all the money, all the money, given to local firemen and police officers in the name of terror........Bush pointed back overseas. He had that covered.
Top Top