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Posted: 10/23/2004 4:18:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 5:07:23 PM EST by Bumblebee_Bob]
In WWll photos you'll see large clock looking things on the mast high above the bridge, facing forward.

What is it? And what's it's function?

Surely it's something more than just a "town-clock."
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:19:33 PM EST
Pic please?

Just guessing from your description it's either an early radar or a fire control director.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:19:43 PM EST
a pic would be really, really cool
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:21:06 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:26:29 PM EST
So much for an old swabby answering this.

I don't think I've seen a pic on the 'net, but now I'll have to go looking. Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:28:23 PM EST
Well, I'm sure it's not to show the enemy the time they died, so.....

A pic would be very helpful, but I suspect it's an antenna of some kind.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:31:10 PM EST
worthless without pics
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:32:29 PM EST
I just looked at a few pics of different WWII era battleships and didn't see the device you were talking about. Which ship?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:37:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 4:37:50 PM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:40:33 PM EST
They were on old, post WWI battleships like the Arizona and North Carolina. I know what you're talking about, but I dont know its function either.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:41:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:43:37 PM EST
Signalling device?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:47:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 4:52:15 PM EST by M-Forgery]
Radar antennas! Not in Paul's photo.

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:47:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By raven:
They were on old, post WWI battleships like the Arizona and North Carolina. I know what you're talking about, but I dont know its function either.



USS NC

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:49:01 PM EST
Here's the first pic I've found. It's not the greatest and that's part of the problem. It looks like a clock with numbers and two hands but it's always hard to get a good look at it when you see one.



Probably most of you have seen the picture of US battleships steaming in line. Each ship has one of these "clocks".
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:49:46 PM EST



Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:50:49 PM EST
I do not know the specifics of how it worked, but it is called a gunnery clock. It has something to do with firing the main guns. Maybe somebody more navy literate can explain how it worked.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:50:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 4:52:20 PM EST by Railgun]
www.usstexasbb35.com/1914-18-turret1-2-tower.gif

The USS Texas pictured above is typical of American battleships in World War I. The tall "birdcage masts" were installed to provide a high position from which to observe the shell splashes from the fall of shot. Mounted on these masts were searchlight platforms, and "range clocks" to help other ships in the battle line with their gunnery.

Railgun....


Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:51:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 4:52:16 PM EST by pogo]
Range clocks. This told following ships in the one-after-the-other battle line the range to the targeted enemy ship.

EDIT: Hey! You beat me to it!
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:51:31 PM EST
Fire control director.

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:54:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 4:55:16 PM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:55:05 PM EST
Hmm, one of the photos caption above says USS NC fires her 16" guns. I believe the NC had 14" guns.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:56:07 PM EST
I think Railgun has it right, they are not called gunnery clocks as I first thought, but range clocks, as he posted.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:58:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Slufstuff:
I think Railgun has it right, they are not called gunnery clocks as I first thought, but range clocks, as he posted.




Finally I got something right!

Well my computer did anyway, never been in the military damnit.....in the 80's I tried but had a DUI and they were tightassed about that.

Railgun....
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 4:59:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By 7:
Hmm, one of the photos caption above says USS NC fires her 16" guns. I believe the NC had 14" guns.



BB-52 NORTH CAROLINA
CLASS - South Dakota
Displacement: 43,200 tons
Dimensions: 684' (length overall); 106' (maximum beam)
Powerplant: 60,000 horsepower steam turbines with electric drive, producing a 23 knot maximum speed
Armament (Main Battery): Twelve 16"/50 guns in four triple turrets
Armament (Secondary Battery): Sixteen 6"/53 guns in single mountings (eight guns on each side of the ship)

www.navsource.org/archives/01/52.htm
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:03:15 PM EST
Range clocks.

That makes sense. I somehow thought they might be something like that.

They seem to be on all the older, pre-war ships. But not on the later and post-war ships. They of course used radar to track the shells.

Thanks to arfkom that nagging question has been answered.

Now let's turn this into a BBOTD thread.

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:06:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 5:36:28 PM EST by 2A373]
They also had them facing aft.




Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:09:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 5:17:35 PM EST by Bumblebee_Bob]
Red X's in that last post 2A373.

And now onto the BBOTD!







Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:11:28 PM EST
For some photos see here: www.bobhenneman.info/Rangeclocks.htm.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:31:50 PM EST
Thanks for the link McGredo. That's perfect!
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:40:45 PM EST




Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:07:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2A373:

Originally Posted By 7:
Hmm, one of the photos caption above says USS NC fires her 16" guns. I believe the NC had 14" guns.



BB-52 NORTH CAROLINA
CLASS - South Dakota
Displacement: 43,200 tons
Dimensions: 684' (length overall); 106' (maximum beam)
Powerplant: 60,000 horsepower steam turbines with electric drive, producing a 23 knot maximum speed
Armament (Main Battery): Twelve 16"/50 guns in four triple turrets
Armament (Secondary Battery): Sixteen 6"/53 guns in single mountings (eight guns on each side of the ship)

www.navsource.org/archives/01/52.htm



Sorry, your source is incorrect. The NORTH CAROLINA (BB 52) of which you write was never completed. Her keel was laid down but the ship was cancelled after the United States signed the Washington Conference. The name was then assigned to BB 55, the keel of which was laid down in 1937. She was commissioned April 9, 1941. North Carolina was the lead ship of her class. The only other ship in her class was USS WASHINGTON (BB 56). USS SOUTH DAKOTA (BB 57) was the lead ship of her class which included USS INDIANA (BB 58), USS MASSACHUSETTS (BB 59) and USS ALABAMA (BB 60). USS IOWA (BB 61) was lead ship of an altogether separate class.

NORTH CAROLINA (BB 55) had a main armament of nine 16" 45 caliber guns. Her secondary armamament consisted of twenty 5" 38 caliber dual purpose guns in ten turrets. She also had sixty 40mm Bofors and forty eight 20mm machine cannons. Late in the war those numbers tended to climb for all of the battleship classes.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:16:43 PM EST
The next line from his source (NavSource Online) reads:

Operational and Building Data:
All units of this class were scrapped while under construction due to the terms of the Washington Naval Treaty.


NavSource Online is the shits and never gets their info wrong.


Originally Posted By LWilde:
Sorry, your source is incorrect.

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:20:03 PM EST
Iowa class battleship pictures taken during their last period in commision:


If you look closely, you can see one of the 16" shells on the left.




This one shows a Tomahawk cruise missile launch.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:26:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
The next line from his source (NavSource Online) reads:

Operational and Building Data:
All units of this class were scrapped while under construction due to the terms of the Washington Naval Treaty.


NavSource Online is the shits and never gets their info wrong.


Originally Posted By LWilde:
Sorry, your source is incorrect.




You are correct. The reference is correct. But that is not what is posted.

The battleship was just about the only class of surface combatant I never served in during my 28 years underway. I really wanted one too...but the timing just never worked out. When I came up for rotation, a billet was never available...I was either too junior or too senior.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:39:30 PM EST
My CCC "asked" me if I wanted to crossrate to be a Gunners Mate (SS) since I was failed the AMS3 exam twice back in 1984. He had standing open orders to any of the BB's for anyone who wanted to crossrate.


Originally Posted By LWilde:
The battleship was just about the only class of surface combatant I never served in during my 28 years underway. I really wanted one too...but the timing just never worked out. When I came up for rotation, a billet was never available...I was either too junior or too senior.

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:44:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 6:50:04 PM EST by 2A373]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
The next line from his source (NavSource Online) reads:

Operational and Building Data:
All units of this class were scrapped while under construction due to the terms of the Washington Naval Treaty.


NavSource Online is the shits and never gets their info wrong.


Originally Posted By LWilde:
Sorry, your source is incorrect.




I did not notice the next line when I copied and pasted the info.

I toured the USS North Carolina about five or six years ago, she is something to see if you are every in Wilmington, NC.

USS NORTH CAROLINA

We will soon have another USS North Carolina, Nuclear Attack Submarine NORTH CAROLINA (SSN 777).
SSN 777
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:48:45 PM EST
I remember going on the USS NC as a kid. This was before they closed off most of the ship to visitors. I went everywhere and spent hours roaming aboard. Great fun.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:50:08 PM EST
WTF makes this BOTD?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:52:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:
WTF makes this BOTD?



It's BBOTD, Battleship of the day.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 6:54:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 6:59:29 PM EST by dpmmn]

Originally Posted By GhostShooter:
WTF makes this BOTD?



BB


BB is the letter designator for Battleship
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:02:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Iowa class battleship pictures taken during their last period in commision:



Is that a wood deck? What's the story on that?
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:04:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:
www.redhillfireworks.org/IOWA.jpg

Where?



Do I see Bigfoot in this pic? About mid pic to the left above what looks like an AA gun.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:11:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sigifrith:
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Iowa class battleship pictures taken during their last period in commision:



Is that a wood deck? What's the story on that?



Yes it is. Here's why,
The Main Deck of the Battleship NORTH CAROLINA is unique in that the structural steel deck is overlaid with a teak deck, a characteristic of all battleships and cruisers constructed through World War II.
The teak was not used for decoration. As can be seen on NORTH CAROLINA, and common to cruisers as well, there is a large surface area on the Main Deck. Through World War II, ships generally were not air conditioned; and, since wood is a natural insulator, the teak decking significantly reduced temperatures below decks. (Note: from our own experience during restoration of the teak decking, when we removed the original teak and replaced it with new teak, the temperature difference with teak overhead as compared to a bare steel deck was over 20 degrees on a hot summer day.) Also, wood better absorbed shrapnel from bullets or bombs.

www.battleshipnc.com/history/bb55/layout/maindeck/main.php
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:14:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By MikeS369:

Originally Posted By Paul:
www.redhillfireworks.org/IOWA.jpg

Where?



Do I see Bigfoot in this pic? About mid pic to the left above what looks like an AA gun.



Sssssssssssshhhhh.

Who do you think handled the 16" projectiles in the magazine?



Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:17:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sigifrith:
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Iowa class battleship pictures taken during their last period in commision:



Is that a wood deck? What's the story on that?



The ships were built with wood decks. There was an armored deck underneath though. Remember even the Iowa's were built in the early '40's.

It would have been too expensive and cause too many other problems to remove them for the 1980's refits. Better to leave them in place.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:46:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By 2A373:

Originally Posted By Sigifrith:
Originally Posted By LWilde:
Iowa class battleship pictures taken during their last period in commision:



Is that a wood deck? What's the story on that?



Yes it is. Here's why,
The Main Deck of the Battleship NORTH CAROLINA is unique in that the structural steel deck is overlaid with a teak deck, a characteristic of all battleships and cruisers constructed through World War II.
The teak was not used for decoration. As can be seen on NORTH CAROLINA, and common to cruisers as well, there is a large surface area on the Main Deck. Through World War II, ships generally were not air conditioned; and, since wood is a natural insulator, the teak decking significantly reduced temperatures below decks. (Note: from our own experience during restoration of the teak decking, when we removed the original teak and replaced it with new teak, the temperature difference with teak overhead as compared to a bare steel deck was over 20 degrees on a hot summer day.) Also, wood better absorbed shrapnel from bullets or bombs.

www.battleshipnc.com/history/bb55/layout/maindeck/main.php



Yup...the decks were all steel. Most of the main deck and the O1 level...the first deck up from the main deck, were also covered in teak planks. The teak was not painted. It was left bare and serviced on a regular basis by the deck gang. The process was called "holy-stoning". The deck cleaning crew, led by a couple of senior bosun's mates would first hose down the deck with a fire hose (salt water). The seamen would line up in a diagonal formation on the deck next to each other, staggered down the deck so that each man has one plank to scrub.

Using a broom handle and a sandstone brick with a hole in one side, and on command, the crewmen would "ASSUME THE POSITION". This involved bending over the brick that has been placed on the plank to be scrubbed with the broom handle in the sandstone brick and the handle extending up alongside your shoulder and neck. The hands were held, one over the other with the elbows extended, providing a good grip and leverage to move the brick back and forth laterally.

At the command, the men would begin to make a set number of strokes on the plank. When they were commanded to stop, the entire crew moved laterally down the deck to the next position. As they did so, every plank got scrubbed.

After a portion of the deck was "stoned", the fire hose team washed the deck again and another crew swabbed up the water with the old Navy string swabs (mops for you landlubbers).

The decks dried amost white.

The Iowa class were the prettiest ships I ever saw. My guided missile destroyer escorted New Jersey in 1969 during her first and only deployment to Vietnam. She was most impressive.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 7:54:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 7:54:25 PM EST by 2A373]

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Yup...the decks were all steel. Most of the main deck and the O1 level...the first deck up from the main deck, were also covered in teak planks. The teak was not painted. It was left bare and serviced on a regular basis by the deck gang. The process was called "holy-stoning". The deck cleaning crew, led by a couple of senior bosun's mates would first hose down the deck with a fire hose (salt water). The seamen would line up in a diagonal formation on the deck next to each other, staggered down the deck so that each man has one plank to scrub.

Using a broom handle and a sandstone brick with a hole in one side, and on command, the crewmen would "ASSUME THE POSITION". This involved bending over the brick that has been placed on the plank to be scrubbed with the broom handle in the sandstone brick and the handle extending up alongside your shoulder and neck. The hands were held, one over the other with the elbows extended, providing a good grip and leverage to move the brick back and forth laterally.

At the command, the men would begin to make a set number of strokes on the plank. When they were commanded to stop, the entire crew moved laterally down the deck to the next position. As they did so, every plank got scrubbed.

After a portion of the deck was "stoned", the fire hose team washed the deck again and another crew swabbed up the water with the old Navy string swabs (mops for you landlubbers).

The decks dried amost white.

The Iowa class were the prettiest ships I ever saw. My guided missile destroyer escorted New Jersey in 1969 during her first and only deployment to Vietnam. She was most impressive.



Sounds like fun stuff.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 8:34:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 10:28:33 PM EST
Range clocks?? What the fuh??

WRONG!!!!
Its to tell the enemy "We are here and YOUR TIME IS UP FUCKER!!"
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 10:30:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 10:31:57 PM EST by _Ugly_]

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Range clocks?? What the fuh??

WRONG!!!!
Its to tell the enemy "We are here and YOUR TIME IS UP FUCKER!!"



I thought that's what the 16" guns were for.

(edited... because because I I kept kept repeating repeating myself myself)
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