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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 5/27/2003 8:22:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 8:31:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 8:59:44 AM EDT
avengeusa Sorry to hear you are ( I will say forced into looking at these measures.) I do know for a fact it will haunt your credit for seven years, and if you finance anything one of the first questions you are asked is have you ever filed bankruptcy? My friend could not finance a home nine years later from a bankruptcy unless his dad co-signed. Again sorry to here about this.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 9:29:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 9:31:13 AM EDT by avengeusa]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:21:26 AM EDT
If you are only in debt for around $15,000 and don't own a home yet I would try real hard to clear your credit rather than go BK. If your debt was like $50,000 and you had a home all ready it might be worth it. If you file BK the creditors cannot come after you later. They also cannot file anything on your credit report after the BK (at least in California). Change in financial state such as a new job or something you will be ok. If you got a big infusion of assests after filing your BK and your creditors found out there might be questions of possible fraud on your part. I have had friends file BK and other than screwing up their credit not much else happened. They kept their house and cars because they were not paid off (reaffirmed loans) and didnt loose any other possesions.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:27:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 10:31:29 AM EDT by ScaryGuy]
Originally Posted By nwatson99: I do know for a fact it will haunt your credit for seven years, and if you finance anything one of the first questions you are asked is have you ever filed bankruptcy? My friend could not finance a home nine years later from a bankruptcy unless his dad co-signed.
View Quote
Well, Yes and No. It does stay on your credit report for seven years, but if you begin to re-establish credit and maintain it the effects are diminished over time. It will only haunt you if you are irresponsible again after bankruptcy. And, believe it or not, it's actually easy as hell to get unsecured credit after filing, because the CC companies know you cannot file, by law, for another seven years, hence the trap that many folks fall right back into. There are limits to personal property and they add up fast, and certain unsecured debts, like student loans and back taxes cannot be dismissed under chapter 7. Also, you will not be allowed to file chapter 7 by the courts if in their opinion your debt to income ratio is such that you can make structured payments under chapter 13. By law, creditors MUST stop harassing you when they are notified of your filing, and they are subject to penalties if they continue to harass after being notified by your attorney. They are allowed representation at your hearing, but unsecured creditors rarely show. Sears, and other big ticket item companies, probably will show up to be considered as secured creditors, which would result in your reaffirming and paying on the debt, or surrendering the item or making other arrangements. It's [i]doubtful[/i] that anyone company would come to your home without warning or without filing a motion, to reposess anything. They are required to do so through legal channels. Once the unsecured debt is discharged, it's gone. My wife filed Ch. 7 before we were married, and even though only outside the discharge for 5 years, due to good credit management since that time, she can borrow money at the normal rate and actaully has a very high credit score. She and I had no trouble qualifying for a home and a low interest rate despite the bankruptcy, and our newest automobile is in her name, solely, at Tier one, excellent credit interest (Less than 2.0%) with a discharged bankruptcy on her record. BUT she was very diligent in re-establishing her credit. Most folks, sad to say, aren't, and it does end up hurting them for several years. DISCALIMER: All of the above is of course, my own experience and ain't meant to be any sort of legal advice, and the laws and procedures vary state to state. Your best bet is to make an appointment and consult with a Bankruptcy Attorney. Just merely trying to give you the benefit of my experience as my wife moved through the process. Bankruptcy is a chance to start over, but it is a step not to be taken lightly. The bad outweighs the good, if IMO, you can aviod it, do. Good Luck, avenge, in whatever you decide. I hope it works out for you. SG
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:30:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:37:33 AM EDT
Damn avenge you are getting the shaft, after reading how you are being done looks like to have no option in this matter. Good luck and hold your head up.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:44:28 AM EDT
I have been practicing bankruptcy law since 1979! I've filed cases from the East Coast to the West Coast! There is nothing about bankruptcy that I don't know, or haven't seen! What are your questions? [:D] Eric The(PredatorOfTheImpecunious)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:48:40 AM EDT
Bankruptcy worked for us. In October of this year it will come off of our record allegedly. The process was simple. Went to lawyer. Paid her 750 bucks. She asked us to inventory our entire house down to spoons, forks, and knives. We did. There were two hearings, one in front of a judge. They recorded us (audio) giving an explanation of why we wanted to declare. Another meeting was set up with the creditors. We were told that they would all be there. NOT. Sears was the only rep to show. They wanted their binoculars back (Seriously). They did have a lawyer. Our lawyer worked out a small payment plan allowing me to keep the binoculars (which I paid off). It has been a very difficult 10 years without credit, but we have learned to do a lot with cash. Be warned now.....You will have a very difficult time making major purchases such as homes and cars. In most cases they will laugh you out of the joint. If you do find somebody to sign you, it will be at a huge interest rate from 17 to 30%. All of my debt was discharged and I kept my house and my binoculars. That was all I needed anyway, my house and my binoculars. and this paddle ball...my house, my binoculars and this paddle ball that's all I need. LOL..had to throw in Steve...sorry. These are personal experiences. IM me with any questions and I will do my best to answer them.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 11:16:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:49:21 PM EDT
First, let me say I am sorry to hear of your difficulties, but a lot of folks may face just this sort of financial decision one day. Whether it's loss of a job, medical problems, or whatever, 'life happens.' Next, your case sounds very simple and in the world of bankruptcy, 'simple' is just great! There will most likely only be one hearing in your case and it WILL NOT BE IN FRONT OF A JUDGE, but before an 'Interim Trustee', selected by the United States Trustee's Office. This 'hearing' is actually referred to as a 'meeting', or the 'first creditors meeting', or even the 'Section 341(a) Meeting.' It is very informal. You will have to bring a drivers license or other ID with you, a copy of your Social Security Card, or some document showing your correct Social Security Number (a lot of trustees ask that you bring your last two income tax returns with you to the meeting). You will be placed under oath and your attorney will ask you a short series of questions, followed by the Trustee and any creditors who choose to attend the meeting. Seldom do any creditors show up, since they all know they will likely not receive anything anyway. But if you have pissed someone off, or they think you are trying to get away with something, or it's an ex-wife with an axe to grind, you may be questioned at length. If someone does show up, and the questioning continues for any length of time at all, the Trustee will ordinarily close the meeting and tell the creditor to file for a Rule 2004 Exam, at which time you will be asked questions without any time limits. This is [u]extremely[/u] unlikely in your case. The meetings usually last for 15 to 20 minutes, and they go fast because so many are set for the same day, at staggered times. Just remember to keep your answers short and sweet, just 'yes' and 'no' or 'I really can't remember.' Above all, be truthful. Not being truthful is a very bad idea in bankruptcy cases. The FBI is the investigative arm of the Office of the United States Trustee. Now, these 'trustees' are ordinarily other attorneys and CPAs, who have volunteered to serve as the trustee in Chapter 7 Cases in your district. The only 'fee' that these trustees receive is a mere $45.00 from your filing fee of $200.00. UNLESS they find a good enough reason to 'open an administration of your bankruptcy estate.' A good enough reason would be if the Trustee that is assigned your case thinks that you or your company has assets that he may be able to collect, sell, pay himself a commission, and pay the remainder to your unsecured creditors. If there are any customers who owe you or your company any money, they should be listed on your schedule of personal property (Schedule B). If you have listed debts that are owed to you or to your company, the Trustee will ask you about the likelihood that these debts can be collected. If he can't get money from the folks who owe you money easily, he will ordinarily just drop the matter. The only 'crucial date' in your case is the date that it is filed. Credit reports? Yep, the info is kept on your credit report for 7 to 10 years, but that is not going to be a problem for you! You will receive dozens of offers for new credit cards from different credit card companies! Why would they send you a new credit card application? Simple. There are three great reasons: 1. You can't file Chapter 7 again for seven more years, so they have their hands around your throat for at least that long. 2. You just got rid of all your debt, so you are in a great position to pay off any new debts! 3. They know you are eager to establish new credit and will be a great customer, now. You can receive a new federally-insured home loan in as little as two years following your 'discharge.' If you get a job the day after the First Creditors' Meeting that is your business and no one elses. So keep your mouth shut about your future plans! If you, however, inherit money or property, or win a lottery, or come into some other windfall within 180 days of filing for bankruptcy, you will have to report that to your Trustee! The money, property, etc., may not be yours to keep! Solution? Dismiss your bankruptcy, collect the money, and then refile afterwards! Am I a weasel, or what? Eric The(AnymoreQuestions?)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:01:37 PM EDT
No ETH, you are a shrewed, learned man who understands how to work through the loopholes in the system to achieve the best position for your client. Which is why I have oft wondered how your profession (helping people get around the system) hasn't clashed with your religious values. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:16:21 PM EDT
Oh, it clashes all the time, I can assure you! But, thankfully, the tie always goes to doing the 'right' thing, which either under man's law or God's law, usually means doing the same thing. You want to see the oldest 'bankruptcy laws' in human history? Go to Chapter 15 of Deuteronomy and see how the Law of Moses handled debtors and creditors. Amazing, ain't it. The bar to successive bankruptcies, by the imposition of a 'seven year' bar to discharge, was lifted directly from this passage. Under the law of Moses, a debt was to be freed or discharged after seven years anyway, so the codifiers of the bankruptcy laws used the same time period, as well. BTW, Thomas Jefferson underwent the 18th-19th Century version of bankruptcy seven times in his adult life. [b]Bastard![/b] [:D] Eric The(No,[u]Him[/u],NotHisChildrenBySallyHemmings!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:37:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 1:48:49 PM EDT
I never thought I'd say it, but that was one of the most honestly helpful posts I've seen.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 2:08:48 PM EDT
I'll even give you the 'Eric The Hun's Questions for Clients at 341 Meetings' as best I can remember them: 1. Please state your name and address. 2. Are you (and your wife) the petitioner(s) in this Chapter 7 Case? 3. Prior to filing this Chapter 7 Case, did you and I discuss the possibility of your filing a Chapter 13 Proceeding? (basically a 'repayment plan' for individual creditors - which can be a great benefit for some folks). 4. And based upon your estimated income we could not formulate a Chapter 13 Plan that would work in your case, is that so? 5. Did you and I sit down and go through all of the schedules and statements of affairs which we filed in your case? 6. Have you listed all of your assets in this case? 7. Have you listed all of your creditors in this case? 8. Does anyone owe you any money? 9. Is anyone else holding property that belongs to you? 10. Did you go out and charge up any of these debts with the intention of not paying them and simply filing bankruptcy on them later? 11. Is there any likelihood of a change in your financial circumstances in the near future? 12. Do you understand that if you receive an inheritance within 180 days of filing for relief under Chapter 7, or otherwise receive any gifts or other windfalls within that same period, you must advise me and the Chapter 7 Trustee of such funds? They may not be yours to keep. 13. Are there any changes which you would like to make to your schedules at this time? Thank you very much. Now, if it's a husband and wife, I turn towards the non-answering spouse and ask him/her: 14. You have heard the questions that I have asked your husband/wife today. If I were to ask the same questions of you, would your responses concur with his/hers? 'Thanks you, Mr. Trustee, that concludes my questions.' At this point, the Trustee, who has been looking through his file, will ordinarily have few, if any questions, and will CONCLUDE the meeting, and file a 'NO-ASSET' REPORT! If he or she has more questions, or needs any documents, the Trustee can ADJOURN the meeting to another date. Your presence then may be necessary - check with your lawyer! It is extremely IMPORTANT to have a 'NO-ASSET' REPORT filed in your Chapter 7 Bankruptcy! Why? Because if the case is a 'NO-ASSET' case, any creditors who may have inadvertantly been left off or forgotten from your schedules of debts are likewise discharged even if they are UNLISTED! Why? If they had been listed, there would still have been no assets for them to receive in your case, so how have they been damaged by their ommission from your schedules? Eric The('BankruptcyBeenVeryVeryGoodToMe')Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 2:17:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 3:40:45 PM EDT
ETH is absolutely right on the money. Laws can differ from state to state though. I had to file CH7 in late 2000 (discharged in 2001) Had to meet my lawyer at the hearing (with about 50 other people who were filing) NONE of my creditors showed up to contest anything...answered a few questions from the Trustee: ("What got you into this situation?"..."Do you understand what is involved in filing?") That was it. Consistently payed all of my remaining bills on time since then, and re-built my credit. [b]2 months later I bought a new Durango...2 YEARS LATER...I AM HAVING A HOUSE BUILT[/b]
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 4:18:51 PM EDT
What is the difference in Chapter 7 and Chapter 13, and what are the advantages and disadvantages of each? fullclip
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