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Posted: 6/13/2009 4:50:59 AM EST
I tried to add her to my bank account and they wont because they said she owes another bank over $200. we called the bank and they gave the amount and when we asked about details of the transaction they said "the history has already been cleared so we cannot give any info" i say bull shit.. if they cant give details how to we know its a valid charge. Im also sure there is a statue of limitations on something like this too..

im going to call them on monday and demand complete details of the account and transaction in question. and when they cant provide it explain they need to release her from this or ill sue them.. would you all agree?er an old checking account

fyi this is all over an old checking account. NOT a loan...
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:56:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 4:57:59 AM EST by WildApple]
They must provide a record of the deed or lien of the debt or they can shove it up their ASS

That is my understanding ......people are using this to delay foreclosure now because it takes them a lot of time to produce the documents.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:57:49 AM EST
If they can't show WHY the debt is valid, tell them to shove it.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:58:46 AM EST
My wife had something similar to this recently. Now she did have some lingering credit issues, so we figured it was possible this was some debt that had been sold/transferred multiple times.

The problem becomes the company with the debt has the power to affect your credit report and not really give you any information other than "Pay me!" I would say lawyer up, but what are the chances that will cost more than paying off the $200? Think a modern version of the mob.....
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 4:58:50 AM EST
Fuck them find out why then get a new small local credit union for the win.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:03:47 AM EST
Look here for lots of answers.

Credit Forums
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:20:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Look here for lots of answers.

Credit Forums


ill check this site out too..

thanks for everyone's help
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:22:14 AM EST
She owes me money too

I cant tell you why though

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:29:44 AM EST
They either come up with documentation or, they pound sand.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:32:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 5:32:49 AM EST by crishel]
Or they can't prove it, and let it go for now...

And remember it happened, and hammer you with NSF charges any chance they get. Don't think it can't happen.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:34:53 AM EST
Quit doing business with this crappy bank.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:35:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By bytor94:
If they can't show WHY the debt is valid, tell them to shove it.


this
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:36:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By EndlessSteven:
Quit doing business with this crappy bank.



solid advice
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:36:59 AM EST
if they cant show you proof.. then it never happened


if the goof up was the other way around and they OWED YOU 200 bones and you couldnt show proof.. you think they would pay you based on good faith?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:37:58 AM EST

Is the bank headquarted in Nigeria?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:38:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:43:03 AM EST
I would have my lawyer tell them to 1) cough up the documents to support their assertion, or 2) remove that blotch from her record, or 3) be ready for the lawsuit.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 5:48:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:01:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By jbombelli:
I would have my lawyer tell them to 1) cough up the documents to support their assertion, or 2) remove that blotch from her record, or 3) be ready for the lawsuit.


Are banks not free to choose who they wish to do business with? They only refused service––what would be the tort to cause a lawsuit?


I suppose if they added it to their credit report that would be considered. If they sent it to collections and the agency attempted to collect.

Couple things off the top of my head.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:06:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 6:07:07 AM EST by daemon734]
wachovia did the same thing to me.

I closed my account with them when I deployed. they now have put two statements on my credit report saying we owe them $200 total. Im not sure how you can close an account while you owe money, but apparently thats what happened. my balance was at zero when I left, thats why I closed it, less things to worry about.

they sold the debt to some fly by night company that refuses to respond to requests to validate the debt and my JAG told me they cant help me.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:13:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:14:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By daemon734:
wachovia did the same thing to me.

I closed my account with them when I deployed. they now have put two statements on my credit report saying we owe them $200 total. Im not sure how you can close an account while you owe money, but apparently thats what happened. my balance was at zero when I left, thats why I closed it, less things to worry about.

they sold the debt to some fly by night company that refuses to respond to requests to validate the debt and my JAG told me they cant help me.


I bet it would have to be an inquiry by some agency, the banking commission or somthing like that.

I can't help but wonder if this is a practice now put in place by banks. You had $200 assessed, the OP had $200 assessed, makes you think.

Imagine if you did it as a matter of course. A certain percentage are going to pay it no questions asked. Most people don't want that on their credit report and $200 isn't a large sum.

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:18:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By jbombelli:
I would have my lawyer tell them to 1) cough up the documents to support their assertion, or 2) remove that blotch from her record, or 3) be ready for the lawsuit.



Do you have a lawyer on staff? It's a $200 charge that is in dispute, I know it might be a principle thing but having a mouthpiece draw up papers is going run you more then $200.

-JTP
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:18:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By daemon734:
wachovia did the same thing to me.

I closed my account with them when I deployed. they now have put two statements on my credit report saying we owe them $200 total. Im not sure how you can close an account while you owe money, but apparently thats what happened. my balance was at zero when I left, thats why I closed it, less things to worry about.

they sold the debt to some fly by night company that refuses to respond to requests to validate the debt and my JAG told me they cant help me.


You have to contact each of the credit bureaus and dispute it.

If the company can't back up the claim, the mark on your report goes away. They have 30 days to comply once you issue the grievance. If they don't, gone. AFAIK you should be able to get the validation of the debt as well.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:24:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By philinmedford:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By jbombelli:
I would have my lawyer tell them to 1) cough up the documents to support their assertion, or 2) remove that blotch from her record, or 3) be ready for the lawsuit.


Are banks not free to choose who they wish to do business with? They only refused service––what would be the tort to cause a lawsuit?


I suppose if they added it to their credit report that would be considered. If they sent it to collections and the agency attempted to collect.

Couple things off the top of my head.



My point is, what are the odds the bank just made this up? It used to be common for people to overdraw a checking account, run up huge fees, then just walk away and open another account down the street at a different bank. For many years now banks have communicated amongst themselves to protect all of us from deadbeats who do this. The consequences for walking away are the inability to do business at a bank. This keeps costs lower for those of us who handle our affairs responsibly.

Obviously there COULD be an error here, but the OP doesn't address what his wife says about this. I find that odd.



I was just having this discussion the other day. It was part of an observation that, back in the day, you could actually go somewhere and "make a fresh start". I'm not talking about criminals, just folks who's kids did something stupid for example. You could go to that new land, or a new area of the country and you were good to go. Now, any little incident of your life is available to just about anyone that wants to find out every piece of your life. When you apply for a new job, every date must be totally correct, if you put that you were hired in October, when it was actually November you are a liar. If you apply for a job, they can pull your credit report and deny you because you got behind on bills. This will only increase as information becomes more accessible. "We reviewed the video from your last job, and you take way too many bathroom breaks".

I really smelled a rat when another poster wrote almost the same thing, with the same amount. I wonder if there are any other stories out there?

Ok, just did a quick search and it seems like there is a "revolution" going on in the U.K. regarding charges like this:

"Banks handed out hundreds of thousands of pounds in refunds to customers yesterday rather than defend their actions in court.

Leeds Mercantile Court was due to hear more than 200 cases from customers demanding the return of overdraft charges they believe were unlawfully imposed on their accounts."


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:33:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By osprey21:
They either come up with documentation or, they pound sand.


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:45:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
My point is, what are the odds the bank just made this up? It used to be common for people to overdraw a checking account, run up huge fees, then just walk away and open another account down the street at a different bank. For many years now banks have communicated amongst themselves to protect all of us from deadbeats who do this. The consequences for walking away are the inability to do business at a bank. This keeps costs lower for those of us who handle our affairs responsibly.

Obviously there COULD be an error here, but the OP doesn't address what his wife says about this. I find that odd.



It is, however, possible to think you've closed an account but there still be some couple cents in there. If it were an account with a monthly fee that account would continue to be charged that fee. Statements would still be going out also so it does seem strange that the wife doesn't know about it? But I've never had a creditor tell me I owe them money without telling me why. That is weird. All kinds of weird in here.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:47:16 AM EST
OP:

1. take a deep breath;

2. this is an excellent time to train the wifey to deal with her own problems. Have her deal with the problem. She was there when it was created. If she doesn't care, you shouldn't.

3. think. If this is a problem that the wifey doesn't want to deal with, don't you think it might be a mistake to add her to your bank account?

4. take $200 from her allowance.

Don't think for a moment that other married men (me included) didn't get into a huff over things like this when we were first married. It is hard to take the long term view. However, what I characterize as the "caveman" approach doesn't really work very well over the long term. The modern terminology in psychobabble is "enabler". Yep. If she doesn't deal with that one, there will always be another little one.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:49:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By bcochran:
4. take $200 from her allowance.



WHO the fuck gives their wife an allowance? Honestly? WTF?!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:49:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 6:50:02 AM EST by pdg45acp]
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By daemon734:
wachovia did the same thing to me.

I closed my account with them when I deployed. they now have put two statements on my credit report saying we owe them $200 total. Im not sure how you can close an account while you owe money, but apparently thats what happened. my balance was at zero when I left, thats why I closed it, less things to worry about.

they sold the debt to some fly by night company that refuses to respond to requests to validate the debt and my JAG told me they cant help me.


You have to contact each of the credit bureaus and dispute it.

If the company can't back up the claim, the mark on your report goes away. They have 30 days to comply once you issue the grievance. If they don't, gone. AFAIK you should be able to get the validation of the debt as well.


This. The bank is just looking at her credit report.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:55:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:56:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 7:00:35 AM EST by trwoprod]
Call and ask for the address to send a certified notarized letter to. Be specific about why this is needed –– that they won't provide any documentation to substantiate a debt claim –– and that copies will be doing to your state consumer protection folks. Note who you talked to, when, what was discussed –– time, date, person, conversation. If you get a manager who is worth a damn, he will ask you to wait, hunt down the idiot who told you something illegal, and make them find the records. He will then make them available to you and you can fix the issue. If he is an idiot, send the letters and pursue this.

ETA:

I really think that the basic problem is that you spoke to a moron. Any decent administrator should be able to find the records or tell you how. If the bank is not local, it may take a while. But I am pretty sure that being told that you have to satisfy a debt with no proof is against the law, ergo it is not official bank policy and someone with an IQ over 80 who works for the bank will back away from that statement as fast as possible.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 6:58:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By JMichael99:
I tried to add her to my bank account and they wont because they said she owes another bank over $200. we called the bank and they gave the amount and when we asked about details of the transaction they said "the history has already been cleared so we cannot give any info" i say bull shit.. if they cant give details how to we know its a valid charge. Im also sure there is a statue of limitations on something like this too..

im going to call them on monday and demand complete details of the account and transaction in question. and when they cant provide it explain they need to release her from this or ill sue them.. would you all agree?er an old checking account

fyi this is all over an old checking account. NOT a loan...


This sounds like a Chexsystems report. Chexsystems usually clears after 5 years. They could still file a judgement or send it to a collection agency. The branch or normal customer service will not be able to find it. You need to speak to their collection department and request copies of the statements. They usually keep them for around 7 years. It will take some time though. By the way, I'm a branch manager for a bank. PM me if you would like some more info.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:03:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 7:08:00 AM EST by trwoprod]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By str8tshooter:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
My point is, what are the odds the bank just made this up? It used to be common for people to overdraw a checking account, run up huge fees, then just walk away and open another account down the street at a different bank. For many years now banks have communicated amongst themselves to protect all of us from deadbeats who do this. The consequences for walking away are the inability to do business at a bank. This keeps costs lower for those of us who handle our affairs responsibly.

Obviously there COULD be an error here, but the OP doesn't address what his wife says about this. I find that odd.



It is, however, possible to think you've closed an account but there still be some couple cents in there. If it were an account with a monthly fee that account would continue to be charged that fee. Statements would still be going out also so it does seem strange that the wife doesn't know about it? But I've never had a creditor tell me I owe them money without telling me why. That is weird. All kinds of weird in here.


The OP is offline, so hopefully he will clarify, but he doesn't say the wife doesn't know about it. He really doesn't say much of anything about the situation regarding the details.

I'd bet the wife DOES know about it. A simple "my wife never had an account there" would put me strongly on his side. Lacking that bit of info makes me think she does owe the $200, but is trying to weasel out of it by forcing the bank to come up with old records they would be reasonable to purge after a reasonable period of time. Keeping old records is expensive––doubly so when the account is unlikely to be resolved.

On my own job (insurance agent) I just had to complete a brief course on records retention. As I said, keeping and maintaining old records is expensive for a company. There are laws which must be followed regarding this, and companies are required to have a policy in force for the handling of this kind of thing. It's extremely likely the bank has followed both the law and its policy for this situation.

Someone above said the banks may just do this at random––that is absurd.


That wasn't me, and it is absurd to suggest that, but not absurd to think that some large companies deliberately make the process of contesting fees so hard that people just pay them instead. Verizon Wireless seems to come up a lot in these discussions. At one point NCNB and then BofA did too.

ETA:

Way back when, when I was figuring out what else I wanted to do with my life after my chosen career vanished into thin air, I worked mainframes for a large Texas bank. I worked with the research department all day. Some records were actually hard to find, and despite the rather slippery ethics of a lot of the execs at this bank, the standard policy was to give the customer the benefit of the doubt and reage accounts and clear records if we had really, truly lost something. But generally we didn't lose anything. And it only took a week or so to dig up things from more than a decade ago in some cases.

So when I hear banks say "we can't find something so the burden of proof is on you" or making a process so complex that you can't actually fix it without spending 40+ hours on the phone, well, that's not an accident anymore than BofA telling people now that they "can't" process all of the Countrywide foreclosures in a timely fashion. Sure you can, if you want to.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:03:52 AM EST
Gee,

IF she owes it, how about paying rather than cheating a compnay out of 200 bucks........
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:10:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By str8tshooter:
Originally Posted By bcochran:
4. take $200 from her allowance.



WHO the fuck gives their wife an allowance? Honestly? WTF?!


Most people I know do. Allowance, budget, whatever. Most people call it an allowance. Maybe it's a regional thing.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:13:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By str8tshooter:
Originally Posted By bcochran:
4. take $200 from her allowance.
WHO the fuck gives their wife an allowance? Honestly? WTF?!
WHO the fuck gives their husband an allowance? Honestly? WTF?!


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:30:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By trwoprod:
Originally Posted By str8tshooter:
Originally Posted By bcochran:
4. take $200 from her allowance.



WHO the fuck gives their wife an allowance? Honestly? WTF?!


Most people I know do. Allowance, budget, whatever. Most people call it an allowance. Maybe it's a regional thing.

When both of us are working, the bills get paid, and whatever is left over is ours for whatever (neither of us really spend anything anyway, but if we want to there are no questions asked as long as bills are paid). If one of us is working, the bills get paid, and whatever is left over is ours. We are married, we are one. It has always been like that.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:34:47 AM EST
TAG

- Clint
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:37:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 7:38:03 AM EST by 230grains]
This happened to me a long time ago, it turns out I owed a bank 50 dollars from a checking account I neglected to close. I went to open a new account at a bank and it got turned down, they gave me a number to call from something like "check system", I called the number and they sent me a letter stating what I owed and to what bank.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:37:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By str8tshooter:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
My point is, what are the odds the bank just made this up? It used to be common for people to overdraw a checking account, run up huge fees, then just walk away and open another account down the street at a different bank. For many years now banks have communicated amongst themselves to protect all of us from deadbeats who do this. The consequences for walking away are the inability to do business at a bank. This keeps costs lower for those of us who handle our affairs responsibly.

Obviously there COULD be an error here, but the OP doesn't address what his wife says about this. I find that odd.



It is, however, possible to think you've closed an account but there still be some couple cents in there. If it were an account with a monthly fee that account would continue to be charged that fee. Statements would still be going out also so it does seem strange that the wife doesn't know about it? But I've never had a creditor tell me I owe them money without telling me why. That is weird. All kinds of weird in here.


The OP is offline, so hopefully he will clarify, but he doesn't say the wife doesn't know about it. He really doesn't say much of anything about the situation regarding the details.

I'd bet the wife DOES know about it. A simple "my wife never had an account there" would put me strongly on his side. Lacking that bit of info makes me think she does owe the $200, but is trying to weasel out of it by forcing the bank to come up with old records they would be reasonable to purge after a reasonable period of time. Keeping old records is expensive––doubly so when the account is unlikely to be resolved.

On my own job (insurance agent) I just had to complete a brief course on records retention. As I said, keeping and maintaining old records is expensive for a company. There are laws which must be followed regarding this, and companies are required to have a policy in force for the handling of this kind of thing. It's extremely likely the bank has followed both the law and its policy for this situation.

Someone above said the banks may just do this at random––that is absurd.


You have excellent points as usual, I just find it highly suspect they can assure him he owes $200, but cannot tell him why he owes them $200.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:48:03 AM EST
Dont waste time with their customer service. Get a manager.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:52:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:52:33 AM EST
I have an issue like this.
Some bank says I owe $134 or some nonsense.

They keep two sets of books on it as well.
When I went to open an account I was told that I had to clear this up first.
The service that the banks use to keep track of these things told the bank I was trying to open an account at that I owed the other bank money.
That same service sent me a letter saying that they had no records on me.
I took that to my new bank and they accepted it as me 'having cleared' the issue and opened my account.

I began finger fucking my file because she left it on the desk, and I saw the paperwork they had been sent saying that I owed money.
I asked for a copy and they told me customers weren't even supposed to see that paperwork.


If I had the time and effort to bother, I'm sure there's a fair reporting suit against the info provider in there somewhere



Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:56:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By JMichael99:
I tried to add her to my bank account and they wont because they said she owes another bank over $200. we called the bank and they gave the amount and when we asked about details of the transaction they said "the history has already been cleared so we cannot give any info" i say bull shit.. if they cant give details how to we know its a valid charge. Im also sure there is a statue of limitations on something like this too..

im going to call them on monday and demand complete details of the account and transaction in question. and when they cant provide it explain they need to release her from this or ill sue them.. would you all agree?er an old checking account

fyi this is all over an old checking account. NOT a loan...


They are MANDATED by law to provide documentation if you request it in writing, they must show statements, how they came to that charge etc etc. But you have to request it, in writing.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 7:59:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 8:00:57 AM EST by California_Kid]
Banks retain transaction history indefinitely. They may have to go to microfiche, but unless they are complete fuckups they have a record somewhere.

If they can't produce proof of the debt, a small-claims court judge will nullify it. If they won't sue your wife, she should sue them to get her name cleared.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:05:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By California_Kid:
Banks retain transaction history indefinitely. They may have to go to microfiche, but unless they are complete fuckups they have a record somewhere.

If they can't produce proof of the debt, a small-claims court judge will nullify it. If they won't sue your wife, she should sue them to get her name cleared.


This is really true.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:07:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 8:09:45 AM EST by jeffers_mz]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By str8tshooter:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
My point is, what are the odds the bank just made this up? It used to be common for people to overdraw a checking account, run up huge fees, then just walk away and open another account down the street at a different bank. For many years now banks have communicated amongst themselves to protect all of us from deadbeats who do this. The consequences for walking away are the inability to do business at a bank. This keeps costs lower for those of us who handle our affairs responsibly.

Obviously there COULD be an error here, but the OP doesn't address what his wife says about this. I find that odd.



It is, however, possible to think you've closed an account but there still be some couple cents in there. If it were an account with a monthly fee that account would continue to be charged that fee. Statements would still be going out also so it does seem strange that the wife doesn't know about it? But I've never had a creditor tell me I owe them money without telling me why. That is weird. All kinds of weird in here.


The OP is offline, so hopefully he will clarify, but he doesn't say the wife doesn't know about it. He really doesn't say much of anything about the situation regarding the details.

I'd bet the wife DOES know about it. A simple "my wife never had an account there" would put me strongly on his side. Lacking that bit of info makes me think she does owe the $200, but is trying to weasel out of it by forcing the bank to come up with old records they would be reasonable to purge after a reasonable period of time. Keeping old records is expensive––doubly so when the account is unlikely to be resolved.

On my own job (insurance agent) I just had to complete a brief course on records retention. As I said, keeping and maintaining old records is expensive for a company. There are laws which must be followed regarding this, and companies are required to have a policy in force for the handling of this kind of thing. It's extremely likely the bank has followed both the law and its policy for this situation.

Someone above said the banks may just do this at random––that is absurd.


I think it is absurd to accuse a bank of maxing dead account holder's credit cards, and keeping the interest too, but that is what Citibank did.

Then they fired the computer tech who "notified" them that this was going on.

Then they paid $14 million dollars out to the estates of the dead people they stole from.

Search it, its not hard to find.

Absurd to think bankers can steal, just like anybody else?

Fat chance.



Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:11:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/14/2009 7:30:42 PM EST by VA-gunnut]
Edited...VA-gunnut
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:15:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 8:17:25 AM EST by Hawken50]

Originally Posted By daemon734:
wachovia did the same thing to me.

I closed my account with them when I deployed. they now have put two statements on my credit report saying we owe them $200 total. Im not sure how you can close an account while you owe money, but apparently thats what happened. my balance was at zero when I left, thats why I closed it, less things to worry about.

they sold the debt to some fly by night company that refuses to respond to requests to validate the debt and my JAG told me they cant help me.

Really? I had a collections agengy after me for $30,000+ in Med bills (I was active duty and the bills should have been paid by Tri-care, but the hospital was too stupid to figure that out).

Even though I had been out of the service almost a year when the collection agency caught up to me, I got in touch with a JAG and he handed the collection agency it's ass. got them charged with violating the Servicemans Protection Act. Fined the shit outta them.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 8:15:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By 1shott:
Originally Posted By tankdriver:
Gee,

IF she owes it, how about paying rather than cheating a compnay out of 200 bucks........


I am sure they would pay it, if they did indeed owe it.

But look at it like this, how many people would just pay up and not question it? Alot, thats what the bank is counting on, IMO.



I started my reply with a cap "IF". But most replies have been just how to get out of it. I'm sure she remembers what it is for if it is real. The OP never says what she remembers.

IF she owes it pay it......

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