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Posted: 11/4/2009 2:05:52 PM EST
Ballmer finally confesses: Vista sucks
Wed Oct 7, 2009 12:02PM EDT

What were we thinking!?

That's the essence of the message from Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer this week, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/6263248/Microsoft-never-recovered-from-Vista-blow-says-Steve-Ballmer.html who made some remarkably candid comments (for Microsoft, anyway) about the failures of Windows Vista and his hopes for the future.

In new comments, Ballmer referred to the Vista debacle as having been an issue of "some uneven reception" because "we made some design decisions to improve security at the expense of compatibility."

That's putting it mildly –– Vista was initially hampered by massive hardware incompatibility problems, awful performance, and interface changes that often felt random, all leading to savage reviews and a massive user backlash –– but it is at least a recognition, however slight, that Vista hasn't been a runaway success, an idea that Microsoft has been crazily clinging to ever since Vista launched.

But in Ballmer's view, this is all good news. With PC sales down up to 15 percent from their high, Microsoft is hoping that Windows 7's release a mere two weeks from now will unleash a torrent of demand for computers and, of course, all of Microsoft's software products as well.

Will it pan out that way? While Windows 7 has started to see the first signs of a backlash, with a few critical reports bubbling up as we get closer to launch, the outlook still seems overwhelmingly positive, with high hopes that Windows 7 will be a hit. Whether that is due to Win 7's merits alone or because users are so extremely jaded with the capabilities of Windows Vista and will accept anything so they can be rid of it remains to be seen.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:08:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:08:15 PM EST by MaddMan]
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:10:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1

I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:15:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1

I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.


It is, trust me.

I just moved a netbook over to it and it runs faster and flawless and my monster laptop loves it too.



Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:19:19 PM EST
I've never had any problems with XP or Vista. I don't plan on upgrading either my laptop (Vista) or my desktop (XP) to 7.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:20:38 PM EST
Rotten dorks should give everyone w/vista a new operating system of their choice for free!
It is crap!
It was so bad it made this house an Apple house. I-MAC.

My wife's had her new Apple for a few weeks when they came out with a new operating system snow leopard.
Because her computer was not that old she got the new operating system for $10 and some change.

Microsoft would want $100 plus even though they stiffed everyone with a POS Vista!
Sell me Windows 7 for $29.00 and I would think about it.
Otherwise Microsoft can stuff it!


Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:20:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1

I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.


I've been a harsh critic of Vista. Win7 is the real deal.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:22:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By boknows20:
Originally Posted By max229:
Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1
I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.
It is, trust me.

I just moved a netbook over to it and it runs faster and flawless and my monster laptop loves it too.

I currently work as a computer tech / net admin so I'm sure I'll have more than enough chance to work with it before too long.

I hope you are right that it turns out to be a great OS as XP is starting to get a bit long in the tooth.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:23:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1

I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.


I've been a harsh critic of Vista. Win7 is the real deal.


Yup
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:24:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:24:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
I've never had any problems with XP or Vista. I don't plan on upgrading either my laptop (Vista) or my desktop (XP) to 7.


I liked Vista.


But windows 7 is awesome. If you install it, you'll love it.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:25:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1

I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.
Have you used it?

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:25:57 PM EST
as a recreational vista user, i never saw what was so bad about it. never saw what was so good about it either.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:26:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1

I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.


The security improvements of Vista alone makes it superior to XP. Problem with Vista was they put too much security on and relied too much on prefetching. Windows 7 fixes those problems.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:29:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:29:56 PM EST by max229]

Originally Posted By jcarrel:
Originally Posted By max229:
Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1
I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.
Have you used it?

Only on a limited basis. I have always been late to upgrade my own stuff.
I like to get a chance to really see how something works in the field before I jump in.

If all goes well with my client's computers I will probably upgrade in the spring.

ETA: How are the memory usage stats compared with XP and Vista?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:32:30 PM EST
I did a clean x64 install on a 2009 tablet PC. I did the install from a USB stick and it took all of 7 minutes. I rebooted, it found all of the ThinkPad drivers and away I went.

I've been running it since September; it's a good stable OS.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:45:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By boknows20:
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
When Vista first came out i told everyone it was ME 2.0 it was going to be riddled with flaws but in the end would lead to a very nice operating system once we get WIN7SP1

I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.


It is, trust me.

I just moved a netbook over to it and it runs faster and flawless and my monster laptop loves it too.




Yup, 7 is much faster and more stable than XP.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:51:34 PM EST
Hmmm.....

So is Microsoft going to give everyone that a faulty product in Vista their money back?

I will just continue using my old Dell laptop running PCLinux07.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:04:30 PM EST
Good Grief. The last thing I want to do is be put in the position of apologist for MS, cause I think most of their software blows chunks. But "massive hardware incompatibilities" are not 100% the fault of the company that writes the OS. Vista was 2 years late. Solid RCs were in the hands of hardware manufacturers THREE YEARS before it's final release. Blaming MS for the fact that HP, Canon, etc, etc, didn't have drivers ready for their own hardware is NOT MS's fault. Personally I had little trouble with Vista, but as an IT person I was exposed to a lot of it and had to deal with it. It wasn't as bad as it was made out to be, but it wasn't anywhere near as good as it should have, and could have been. Vista, much like Bob, will be a footnote in history and mostly forgotten long before Obama is out of office.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:08:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 3:08:41 PM EST by 3rdpig]

Originally Posted By sigman68:
Hmmm.....

So is Microsoft going to give everyone that a faulty product in Vista their money back?

I will just continue using my old Dell laptop running PCLinux07.

Get fucking real, which software/hardware company returns money for a faulty product? I've got a $1200 notebook sitting here that's 6 weeks out of the warranty period and has a known fault, a fault verified by the manufacturer of the chip, nVidia. nVidia paid HP a shitload of money to repair those notebooks but HP took it on themselves to refuse to fix a known fault except when the notebook was within the original warranty period, and despite the fact that they were being fully reimbursed to do it.

This is the high tech industry today. Get off your high Linux horse and get used to it, or keep using your old POS Dell notebook until it finally croaks.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:53:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 3:55:29 PM EST by paris-dakar]
Wouldn't it be ironic if MS continued supporting XP with upgrades after it stopped supporting Vista? [://

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:55:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Wouldn't it be ironic if MS continued supporting XP with upgrades after it stopped supporting Vista? [://]

That will most likely happen considering the number of business users who still have XP and are notoriously slow to upgrade.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 3:59:18 PM EST
Windows 7 on my platter drive is faster than my install of XP on my high speed SSD drive.

No compatibility issues, no BSODs , no freezing or problems yet, one in a while the program will shut down , 7 will change some config, then load back up.

All i need to do now is migrate from xp to 7.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:06:05 PM EST
Vista is ok if you do nothing to it,add on old programs or,like me,run some from other countries and it all goes to shit quick

I got Vista ripped out of my PC and stuck in XP Ultimate.

Win 7? call me in two years,then we'll see if all the bugs are out

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:12:47 PM EST
My 18-month-old laptop's HDD is failing.

I've ordered a new drive. Should I load it with Windows 7 and skip the "reinstall" of XP?

What do you IT guys think?

John
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:14:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By Templar223:
My 18-month-old laptop's HDD is failing.

I've ordered a new drive. Should I load it with Windows 7 and skip the "reinstall" of XP?

What do you IT guys think?

John

Just reinstall XP, most laptop manufacturers suck with driver support for new OSes.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 4:57:54 PM EST
So basically, you have to wait until the next version of software comes out before you
can get the truth on the previous version being crap.

But then again, maybe that is just a sales tactic to drive sales to the newer version.

That's been the same since Windows 3.1
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:13:21 PM EST
I have 7 Ultimate on all my machines...

It is fantastic.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:17:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 5:22:10 PM EST by Howie_Phelterbush]
Originally Posted By avenger44:
Rotten dorks should give everyone w/vista a new operating system of their choice for free!
It is crap!
It was so bad it made this house an Apple house. I-MAC.

My wife's had her new Apple for a few weeks when they came out with a new operating system snow leopard.
Because her computer was not that old she got the new operating system for $10 and some change.

Microsoft would want $100 plus even though they stiffed everyone with a POS Vista!
Sell me Windows 7 for $29.00 and I would think about it.
Otherwise Microsoft can stuff it!




this.

I spent hours last week figuring out which update was keeping Vista from installing ANY updates on the system. in XP if an update failed it simply failed and the system went on to the next one. Not vista. Finally got the system to install the 2 vista service packs and now it runs ok.

REALLY WOW $10!!!!!!

Oh wait if you bought a PC a month or two ago the upgrade for WIn7 is FREE.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:20:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 5:22:21 PM EST by NimmerMehr]

Originally Posted By boknows20:
Originally Posted By max229:

I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.

It is, trust me.

I just moved a netbook over to it and it runs faster and flawless and my monster laptop loves it too.

There is something umm, well. I wish they would stay with windows 2000 shell and backport many of the internal changes to they've made over the years.

Instead, to get better drivers and under-the-hood stuff, you also have to buy the fucking eye candy + other stupid shit.


Originally Posted By max229:

I currently work as a computer tech / net admin so I'm sure I'll have more than enough chance to work with it before too long.

I hope you are right that it turns out to be a great OS as XP is starting to get a bit long in the tooth.
How is it long in the tooth, what do you mean by that, software doesn't decay.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:22:09 PM EST
I've been using a Win 7 notebook since Monday (my 4 year old Vaio gave up the ghost on Saturday) and I have no complaints so far. fwiw, It's a Dell Inspiron 1545 with a Pentium dual core T4300 (2.1ghz) with 4 gigs of ram. It came with Dell Dock installed, which is actually pretty convenient. The UI is definitely a step up from XP. It's much faster than my old 1.73ghz Pentium M (duh), but the most system-taxing thing I've done is photo editing.

I have a Studio XPS 1645 on the way, if the fucks at dell ever get around to making it.

As for memory usage, about 1.5gigs of ram are occupied right now, with firefox, smart defrag, and avast open.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:24:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nick29:
I've been using a Win 7 notebook since Monday (my 4 year old Vaio gave up the ghost on Saturday) and I have no complaints so far. fwiw, It's a Dell Inspiron 1545 with a Pentium dual core T4300 (2.1ghz) with 4 gigs of ram. It came with Dell Dock installed, which is actually pretty convenient. The UI is definitely a step up from XP. It's much faster than my old 1.73ghz Pentium M (duh), but the most system-taxing thing I've done is photo editing.

I have a Studio XPS 1645 on the way, if the fucks at dell ever get around to making it.

As for memory usage, about 1.5gigs of ram are occupied right now, with firefox, smart defrag, and avast open.


which actually isn't accurate. Win 7 grabs a bunch of ram by default in order to better manage apps. its really not using it as it using it as a cache for apps.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:25:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 5:27:28 PM EST by The_Macallan]

Vista hasn't acted up even once on my laptop I got last year.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:25:59 PM EST
But....... But.........

I thought Vista was going to be the OS to end all OS's!
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:26:43 PM EST
My current machine is running Vista. It is a couple of years old now and is the best PC I've had yet.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:27:06 PM EST
Big deal, it's not news.

Everything Microsoft makes is a piece of crap. Always has been, always will be.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:27:59 PM EST
I have friends who have the Beta version and they love it! Not buying another computer till it comes out
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:28:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter:
I've never had any problems with XP or Vista. I don't plan on upgrading either my laptop (Vista) or my desktop (XP) to 7.


This. I've got Vista on my laptop and XP on my desktop and have had zero problems that weren't "dumbass user" related.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:28:27 PM EST
never had any problems with Vista
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:28:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By TinLeg:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
I've never had any problems with XP or Vista. I don't plan on upgrading either my laptop (Vista) or my desktop (XP) to 7.


I liked Vista.


But windows 7 is awesome. If you install it, you'll love it.


I like Vista, too, but I think I'll upgrade to Windows 7 anyway.

HH
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:29:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:
Originally Posted By boknows20:
Originally Posted By max229:
I have yet to be convinced of Win7's superiority to XP.
It is, trust me.

I just moved a netbook over to it and it runs faster and flawless and my monster laptop loves it too.
There is something umm, well. I wish they would stay with windows 2000 shell and backport many of the internal changes to they've made over the years.

Instead, to get better drivers and under-the-hood stuff, you also have to buy the fucking eye candy + other stupid shit.
Originally Posted By max229:

I currently work as a computer tech / net admin so I'm sure I'll have more than enough chance to work with it before too long.

I hope you are right that it turns out to be a great OS as XP is starting to get a bit long in the tooth.
How is it long in the tooth, what do you mean by that, software doesn't decay.

Drivers and software compatibility is starting to decline on some of the newer programs and hardware.

If you still use all your old programs on an old machine XP will last a lifetime.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:30:22 PM EST
I just got a new workstation with 7. My laptop has XP. We never did the Vista thing at my work.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:42:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By Howie_Phelterbush:
Originally Posted By Nick29:
I've been using a Win 7 notebook since Monday (my 4 year old Vaio gave up the ghost on Saturday) and I have no complaints so far. fwiw, It's a Dell Inspiron 1545 with a Pentium dual core T4300 (2.1ghz) with 4 gigs of ram. It came with Dell Dock installed, which is actually pretty convenient. The UI is definitely a step up from XP. It's much faster than my old 1.73ghz Pentium M (duh), but the most system-taxing thing I've done is photo editing.

I have a Studio XPS 1645 on the way, if the fucks at dell ever get around to making it.

As for memory usage, about 1.5gigs of ram are occupied right now, with firefox, smart defrag, and avast open.


which actually isn't accurate. Win 7 grabs a bunch of ram by default in order to better manage apps. its really not using it as it using it as a cache for apps.


I didn't mean to say it as if I'm concerned. There's still plenty of memory free. It'll be even less of a concern when I get my next machine: 6gigs of ram FTW!


Originally Posted By offuuu:
I have friends who have the Beta version and they love it! Not buying another computer till it comes out


The final release came out on 10/22. If you buy a computer now it will come with 7.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 5:44:50 PM EST
Vista sucks fucking monkey balls.

Windows 7 is OK...managed to blue screen the damned thing a few times.

If your organization is running MS on the desktop, 7 does have an excellent feature for corporate wireless networks....wireless single sign on:

Basically, the wireless single sign on feature allows you to login as if you are on a wired connection without the addition of special third party software.
This feature combined with the ratification of 802.11N and the vast improvements in recent years in the areas of wireless security, manageability and client capacity will lead to even more use of wireless infrastructure in the corporate arena...

In some areas of my organization, I am starting to see a slow migration away from the cabled infrastructure. Once Windows 7 is deployed on a large scale, I predict this may accelerate this migration.

(I'm the wireless geek where I work)

Anyhow, for home use, I'm not going to waste my money...why bother with 7, when Ubuntu works just fine..it's stable, fast, secure, and I can do everything that I could do with Windows without dropping any coin

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 6:18:45 PM EST
I just upgraded to Snow Leopard. I will NEVER own a piece of shit windows machine EVER again.
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