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Posted: 10/27/2006 7:43:23 AM EDT
I'm looking for a suitable sub for ballistic gel that has the same 'penetration coefficient' as the gel.

I searched for factual data comparing, for instance, a phone book and gel as far as penetration goes.

Most info was anecdotal or lacking a satisfactory level of professionalism.  I'm looking for a factual, unbiased, comparison by a reputable source.

I'm sure it's out there - my search-fu is weak.

Thanks.

Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:44:28 AM EDT
[#1]
human flesh?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:45:15 AM EDT
[#2]
soylent green?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:45:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:46:08 AM EDT
[#4]
You looking for penetration only or temp cavity vs perm cavity?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:46:23 AM EDT
[#5]
Bacardi 151
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:47:22 AM EDT
[#6]
Ballistic Gelatin is a substitute for human flesh. You want a substitute for a substitute?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:49:20 AM EDT
[#7]
"Fackler box"  Buy generic 1 gallon ziplock bags.  Fill with water.  Arrange in a box that keeps them mostly vertical.  You can estimate penetration and wound cavity.  Best on pistol class rounds.

Another type uses prickly pear cactus pads.  About the thorns...use a large blowtorch.  
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:49:24 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
What exactly are you trying to do?  I might be able to help out.


Got some time on my hands, so want to find the penetration of various reloads, factory rounds.  Chrono reloads, etc.

Bunch of stuff, actually.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:49:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Gallon jugs of water / assorted wood / Tman if necessary.

Shooting stuff is fun.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:50:11 AM EDT
[#10]
I remember a while back some guy got the PETA goons all worked up for shooting hogs with bulletproof vest on.

-JTP
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:50:22 AM EDT
[#11]
<sarcasm

According to the Main stream Media children's school books are a suitable substitute, at least that's what they were saying on the news the other day.

</sarcasm
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:50:43 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
human flesh?


Know any volunteers?  

(That's a can of worms question, considering where I live)
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:51:43 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
I remember a while back some guy got the PETA goons all worked up for shooting hogs with bulletproof vest on.

-JTP


Goat labs are quite instructional.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:53:26 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
"Fackler box"  Buy generic 1 gallon ziplock bags.  Fill with water.  Arrange in a box that keeps them mostly vertical.  You can estimate penetration and wound cavity.  Best on pistol class rounds.

Another type uses prickly pear cactus pads.  About the thorns...use a large blowtorch.  


Interesting.

I'm familar with Fackler, and have never heard of the bags.  I'll check that out.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:55:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Violent criminals?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:55:58 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
"Fackler box"  Buy generic 1 gallon ziplock bags.  Fill with water.  Arrange in a box that keeps them mostly vertical.  You can estimate penetration and wound cavity.  Best on pistol class rounds.

Another type uses prickly pear cactus pads.  About the thorns...use a large blowtorch.  


Interesting.

I'm familar with Fackler, and have never heard of the bags.  I'll check that out.

Google "Fackler Box".
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:57:23 AM EDT
[#17]
We have a surplus of wild pigs here in Cali.  They're suspected of being the vector that transferred deadly E. coli bacteria from a cattle feed lot to spinach farms in September.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 7:59:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:00:11 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
What exactly are you trying to do?  I might be able to help out.


Got some time on my hands, so want to find the penetration of various reloads, factory rounds.  Chrono reloads, etc.

Bunch of stuff, actually.


If you're mostly looking for penetration figures, use bags of water like has already been suggested.  To find the equivalent tissue penetration, remember that water penetration is about 1.6-1.8 times farther (depending on who tells you).  I've read both figures, but I never cared enough to test it for myself, since I always use gel.


Outstanding.

Thanks, everyone.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:00:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Jello.  Use the cheap store brand.  Mix in shredded paper from your household shredder.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:13:20 AM EDT
[#21]
Midway started selling a ready-mixed and formed balllistic jello substitute, called the Bullet Test Tube.

Looks expensive as hell..  http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=739849

Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:15:51 AM EDT
[#22]
I believe that the company my mother runs is one of the suppliers to the manufacturer in Souix City.  I might be able to arrange the purchase of some gel.

As a kid growing up one of her customers was the Troll candy factory in Iowa.  I used to get 5 pound bags of gummy worms and lots of other gummy products before the hit the market.  Maybe that is why I have so many fillings in my teeth today.  

SBG
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 10:08:02 AM EDT
[#23]
theboxotruth.netfirms.com/forums/nfphpbb/

Old-Painless uses bottled water jugs....if you haven't arlready, read through his BoT's and you'll learn a lot.

HH
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:00:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:07:11 PM EDT
[#25]
I just climbed the windmill and shot into the stock tank.

.44 Special lead hollowpoints make BEAUTIFUL mushrooms
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:07:18 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
What exactly are you trying to do?  I might be able to help out.


Got some time on my hands, so want to find the penetration of various reloads, factory rounds.  Chrono reloads, etc.

Bunch of stuff, actually.


If you're mostly looking for penetration figures, use THIN bags of water like has already been suggested.  Find the thinnest plastic baggies you can.  Remember that thichker plastic will skew results.  To find the equivalent tissue penetration, remember that water penetration is about 1.6-1.8 times farther (depending on who tells you).  I've read both figures, but I never cared enough to test it for myself, since I always use gel.


While we're on the subject, where does one get ballistic gel, and how hard is it to work with?
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 2:20:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:19:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Anyone tried this product?
www.thebullettesttube.com/products.html

Midway has it on sale.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:22:41 PM EDT
[#29]
Fresh Dead Pigs.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:44:24 PM EDT
[#30]

Quoted:
Fresh Dead Pigs.


Once shot a spoiled ham with a 50 gr. nosler bt.

The results were... spectacular. Although I somehow doubt that it's an accurate representation of what it will do on a person.

We picked up rotten ham a good 30 feet from the table.
Link Posted: 10/27/2006 8:50:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:03:32 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
theboxotruth.netfirms.com/forums/nfphpbb/

Old-Painless uses bottled water jugs....if you haven't arlready, read through his BoT's and you'll learn a lot.

HH


BTRT -  thanks for the reminder though - as I had forgotten about the 1.6 - 2 inch deal.
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:05:06 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:
I just climbed the windmill and shot into the stock tank.

.44 Special lead hollowpoints make BEAUTIFUL mushrooms


HA!

I remember the .41 with fondness...
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:15:53 AM EDT
[#34]
I found this on Google.

www.myscienceproject.org/gelatin.html

Altho, this link was a hell of a lot funner.  



Vulcan94
Link Posted: 10/28/2006 7:22:19 AM EDT
[#35]
I hunt....most of deer-sized (or bigger) critters I've bagged got a single pistol shot to the chest cavity....'just to make sure it's dead' if a game warden ever asks.


I've gone as far as to place denim, t-shirts, leather, or a mix over the carcass before firing.   I don't lose much meat,  I get to satisfy my morbid curiosity, and I have absolute confidence in the realistic terminal effects of my carry ammo through clothing/skin/flesh/bone..




(230gr Gold Dots perform extremely well)



Link Posted: 10/28/2006 8:18:46 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
I found this on Google.

www.myscienceproject.org/gelatin.html

Altho, this link was a hell of a lot funner.  



Vulcan94


I've read that last week...HAHA!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:59:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Actually in my opinion there are two very good substitutes for GEL:

1. Illegal Aliens

2. Terrorists

These will give you a  much better idea of how the human body will react to the test bullets you're using IMHO

height=8
Quoted:
I'm looking for a suitable sub for ballistic gel that has the same 'penetration coefficient' as the gel.

I searched for factual data comparing, for instance, a phone book and gel as far as penetration goes.

Most info was anecdotal or lacking a satisfactory level of professionalism.  I'm looking for a factual, unbiased, comparison by a reputable source.

I'm sure it's out there - my search-fu is weak.

Thanks.

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