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Posted: 3/11/2011 4:39:36 PM EDT
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.



If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.





Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?





If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:45:23 PM EDT
[#1]
This is a good read "kind'a-Sort'a" along those lines.

THE BIG SORT (WHY THE CLUSTERING OF LIKE-MINDED AMERICA IS TEARING US APART).
"Going far beyond the simplistic red state/blue state divide, journalist Bill Bishop (in collaboration with sociologist and statistician Robert Cushing) marshals original data and incisive reporting to show how Americans have sorted themselves geographically, economically, and politically into like-minded communities over the last three decades."

http://www.thebigsort.com/book.php
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:49:02 PM EDT
[#2]


The likely scenrio IMHO - Most of the Western States and Souteastern States break away and form a new Red State Union.  Red counties in hard blue left coast states and Midwestern states break away and join the Red State Union, leaving liberal hotspots as isolated city-states.  Most of Western Canada and the Prairie Provinces tell Quebec and Ontario to jump in a lake and join with the Red State Union, creating a new conservative nation running contiguous from Alaska to Florida.



Within a few years, the Red State Union becomes a net exporter of oil, natural gas, and coal.  It's citizens enjoy low cost electricity and motor fuel, attracting new manufacturing and production facilities from all over the world.  Meanwhile, what's left of the US remnents become third world enclaves as their societies begin to break down and anarchy rules.  Eventually, Red State Union troops march into these leftist stainholes and clean out what's left of the riff-raff and take over.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:52:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.

If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.


Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?


If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Probably wouldn't happen. If it did, most states, Kalifornistan EXCLUDED, are smart enough to realize that another superpower, like China, would be over here in a flash picking off the U.S. piecemeal. Kalifornistan would probably welcome our new masters with open arms.

But let's just say they're having their own problems. Texas would be pretty darn well off. They've got a shitpile of land, population, and about thirty military bases scattered around.

Kalifornistan, Oregon, and Washington would probably combine, as would the northeastern states. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.

Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula might form up too. They've all got quite a lot in common, but I'm sure they'd want to exclude Minneapolis. I live here and it's on a fast-track for Detroitification. Upper Peninsula, NOT the lower of Michigan. Too much Detroit in the L.P. We'd take them, but only if they agree to let North Dakota Nuke Detroit off the map. It's really the only way to be sure.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:53:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:

The likely scenrio IMHO - Most of the Western States and Souteastern States break away and form a new Red State Union.  Red counties in hard blue left coast states and Midwestern states break away and join the Red State Union, leaving liberal hotspots as isolated city-states.  Most of Western Canada and the Prairie Provinces tell Quebec and Ontario to jump in a lake and join with the Red State Union, creating a new conservative nation running contiguous from Alaska to Florida.

Within a few years, the Red State Union becomes a net exporter of oil, natural gas, and coal.  It's citizens enjoy low cost electricity and motor fuel, attracting new manufacturing and production facilities from all over the world.  Meanwhile, what's left of the US remnents become third world enclaves as their societies begin to break down and anarchy rules.  Eventually, Red State Union troops march into these leftist stainholes and clean out what's left of the riff-raff and take over.


I'll have what he's drinking.


Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:54:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.


We want Louisiana. They have the refineries and support industry for gulf drilling. Wall off New Orleans and declare it a shooting preserve.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:55:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Some States would be better off.  Some States wouldn't.

Personally, I think we just need a reset of the Federal government.  And I say "Federal" because that's what we need, but don't have.  We have a "Federal" government in name only right now.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 5:03:00 PM EDT
[#7]
I have a feeling TX would be the first to go...followed by AK.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 5:10:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.

If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.


Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?


If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Probably wouldn't happen. If it did, most states, Kalifornistan EXCLUDED, are smart enough to realize that another superpower, like China, would be over here in a flash picking off the U.S. piecemeal. Kalifornistan would probably welcome our new masters with open arms.

But let's just say they're having their own problems. Texas would be pretty darn well off. They've got a shitpile of land, population, and about thirty military bases scattered around.

Kalifornistan, Oregon, and Washington would probably combine, as would the northeastern states. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.

Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula might form up too. They've all got quite a lot in common, but I'm sure they'd want to exclude Minneapolis. I live here and it's on a fast-track for Detroitification. Upper Peninsula, NOT the lower of Michigan. Too much Detroit in the L.P. We'd take them, but only if they agree to let North Dakota Nuke Detroit off the map. It's really the only way to be sure.



 Its turning into a state bashing thread already?  Really ?  
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 5:34:29 PM EDT
[#9]
The sooner it happens the better.  I don't think our parasites will want to let the people that "owe" them a free ride stop their supporting them, but I don't care.  The Feds have changed the borders of countries all over the world.  Why not here?
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 5:36:56 PM EDT
[#10]



Quoted:




The likely scenrio IMHO - Most of the Western States and Souteastern States break away and form a new Red State Union.  Red counties in hard blue left coast states and Midwestern states break away and join the Red State Union, leaving liberal hotspots as isolated city-states.  Most of Western Canada and the Prairie Provinces tell Quebec and Ontario to jump in a lake and join with the Red State Union, creating a new conservative nation running contiguous from Alaska to Florida.



Within a few years, the Red State Union becomes a net exporter of oil, natural gas, and coal.  It's citizens enjoy low cost electricity and motor fuel, attracting new manufacturing and production facilities from all over the world.  Meanwhile, what's left of the US remnents become third world enclaves as their societies begin to break down and anarchy rules.  Eventually, Red State Union troops march into these leftist stainholes and clean out what's left of the riff-raff and take over.


Yeah, I would agree with this one.



 
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 5:49:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
This is a good read "kind'a-Sort'a" along those lines.

THE BIG SORT (WHY THE CLUSTERING OF LIKE-MINDED AMERICA IS TEARING US APART).
"Going far beyond the simplistic red state/blue state divide, journalist Bill Bishop (in collaboration with sociologist and statistician Robert Cushing) marshals original data and incisive reporting to show how Americans have sorted themselves geographically, economically, and politically into like-minded communities over the last three decades."

http://www.thebigsort.com/book.php


"...The communities that had less traditional cultures — for example, places where people were less likely to submit to traditional sources of authority — were the country's most economically vibrant cities. And, we eventually discovered, these places were growing more Democratic in presidential elections. "


I stopped reading after this.  It's obvious they are saying here that the most economically vibrant areas and smartest people are Democrats.

Not hard to figure out what their agenda is.....
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:00:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I have a feeling TX would be the first to go...followed by AK.


IDK.  Considering Alaska isn't part of the lower 48, in may go first.

Or possibly Hawaii.  They would probably end up joining Japan.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:15:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:

The likely scenrio IMHO - Most of the Western States and Souteastern States break away and form a new Red State Union.  Red counties in hard blue left coast states and Midwestern states break away and join the Red State Union, leaving liberal hotspots as isolated city-states.  Most of Western Canada and the Prairie Provinces tell Quebec and Ontario to jump in a lake and join with the Red State Union, creating a new conservative nation running contiguous from Alaska to Florida.

Within a few years, the Red State Union becomes a net exporter of oil, natural gas, and coal.  It's citizens enjoy low cost electricity and motor fuel, attracting new manufacturing and production facilities from all over the world.  Meanwhile, what's left of the US remnents become third world enclaves as their societies begin to break down and anarchy rules.  Eventually, Red State Union troops march into these leftist stainholes and clean out what's left of the riff-raff and take over.


I'll have what he's drinking.





ME TOO  
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:28:43 PM EDT
[#14]
To give you a nice comparison for the states GDP..





Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:42:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is a good read "kind'a-Sort'a" along those lines.

THE BIG SORT (WHY THE CLUSTERING OF LIKE-MINDED AMERICA IS TEARING US APART).
"Going far beyond the simplistic red state/blue state divide, journalist Bill Bishop (in collaboration with sociologist and statistician Robert Cushing) marshals original data and incisive reporting to show how Americans have sorted themselves geographically, economically, and politically into like-minded communities over the last three decades."

http://www.thebigsort.com/book.php


"...The communities that had less traditional cultures — for example, places where people were less likely to submit to traditional sources of authority — were the country's most economically vibrant cities. And, we eventually discovered, these places were growing more Democratic in presidential elections. "


I stopped reading after this.  It's obvious they are saying here that the most economically vibrant areas and smartest people are Democrats.

Not hard to figure out what their agenda is.....


Well, some of that is what it is.  New York, LA, Chicago, other large metropolitan areas DO (As a rule) tend to vote dim but I think that
has more to do with the rise in information/service companies (And their near phenomenal growth rates) that are based out of those areas
and the fact they they ALSO tend to have huge "Parasite" voting blocks (People who receive far more in gub'mint cheese than they ever
contribute).

Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:57:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Our free flow of commerce between the 50-states is our greatest strength.  Barriers to commerce between the States would harm our standard of living and ability to compete against China, Russia, and the EU.  



We either make it whole or end up accepting something less than US dominance and high standard of living.



Keep in mind our free trade agreements would be a mess as well if the US fractured.  The economic chaos that would follow would be pretty nuts. How would Southwestern USA have the influence over middle eastern oil compared to Northeastern USA?  Finite global resources and a degrading power/influence base would be bad news bears.  



No, I think if we reach the point of economic collapse then it's time to clean house not jump ship. My family came to the colonies in 1647 and built this nation so I'll die before I see it broken into a bunch of shit hole third world fragments. I'm not going to be the last of my family to live in a United States.  Too much hard work, too much blood, too much given to earn what we have to piss it away because of liberals and retreat into some corner of the country.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:59:00 PM EDT
[#17]
The .gov would shoot the 1st one of you seditious bastards!



















Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:59:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:

The likely scenrio IMHO - Most of the Western States and Souteastern States break away and form a new Red State Union.  Red counties in hard blue left coast states and Midwestern states break away and join the Red State Union, leaving liberal hotspots as isolated city-states.  Most of Western Canada and the Prairie Provinces tell Quebec and Ontario to jump in a lake and join with the Red State Union, creating a new conservative nation running contiguous from Alaska to Florida.

Within a few years, the Red State Union becomes a net exporter of oil, natural gas, and coal.  It's citizens enjoy low cost electricity and motor fuel, attracting new manufacturing and production facilities from all over the world.  Meanwhile, what's left of the US remnents become third world enclaves as their societies begin to break down and anarchy rules.  Eventually, Red State Union troops march into these leftist stainholes and clean out what's left of the riff-raff and take over.


I'll have what he's drinking.




Make that a double.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 6:59:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Our free flow of commerce between the 50-states is our greatest strength.  Barriers to commerce between the States would harm our standard of living and ability to compete against China, Russia, and the EU.  

We either make it whole or end up accepting something less than US dominance and high standard of living.

Keep in mind our free trade agreements would be a mess as well if the US fractured.  The economic chaos that would follow would be pretty nuts. How would Southwestern USA have the influence over middle eastern oil compared to Northeastern USA?  Finite global resources and a degrading power/influence base would be bad news bears.  

No, I think if we reach the point of economic collapse then it's time to clean house not jump ship. My family came to the colonies in 1647 and built this nation so I'll die before I see it broken into a bunch of shit hole third world fragments. I'm not going to be the last of my family to live in a United States.  Too much hard work, too much blood, too much given to earn what we have to piss it away because of liberals and retreat into some corner of the country.


Free flow of commerce?  One of the biggest barriers to the free flow of commerce IS our central government.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:08:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.

If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.


Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?


If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Probably wouldn't happen. If it did, most states, Kalifornistan EXCLUDED, are smart enough to realize that another superpower, like China, would be over here in a flash picking off the U.S. piecemeal. Kalifornistan would probably welcome our new masters with open arms.

But let's just say they're having their own problems. Texas would be pretty darn well off. They've got a shitpile of land, population, and about thirty military bases scattered around.

Kalifornistan, Oregon, and Washington would probably combine, as would the northeastern states. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.

Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula might form up too. They've all got quite a lot in common, but I'm sure they'd want to exclude Minneapolis. I live here and it's on a fast-track for Detroitification. Upper Peninsula, NOT the lower of Michigan. Too much Detroit in the L.P. We'd take them, but only if they agree to let North Dakota Nuke Detroit off the map. It's really the only way to be sure.


The better question is, who in the fuck would want Minnesota?  What do you guys bring to the table?  No oil, no ports, no seafood, maybe a little agriculture?  Very little, with your short growing season?  Ice fishing?  Maybe you can export balut or something?  LOFL

I doubt anyone would let you join the cool club.

LC
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:09:09 PM EDT
[#21]
I always wonder about the people who fantasize about the balkanization of our nation.  The surefire way to go from number 1 in the world to second rate or third world.  
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:14:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.

If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.


Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?


If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Probably wouldn't happen. If it did, most states, Kalifornistan EXCLUDED, are smart enough to realize that another superpower, like China, would be over here in a flash picking off the U.S. piecemeal. Kalifornistan would probably welcome our new masters with open arms.

But let's just say they're having their own problems. Texas would be pretty darn well off. They've got a shitpile of land, population, and about thirty military bases scattered around.

Kalifornistan, Oregon, and Washington would probably combine, as would the northeastern states. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.

Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula might form up too. They've all got quite a lot in common, but I'm sure they'd want to exclude Minneapolis. I live here and it's on a fast-track for Detroitification. Upper Peninsula, NOT the lower of Michigan. Too much Detroit in the L.P. We'd take them, but only if they agree to let North Dakota Nuke Detroit off the map. It's really the only way to be sure.


The better question is, who in the fuck would want Minnesota?  What do you guys bring to the table?  No oil, no ports, no seafood, maybe a little agriculture?  Very little, with your short growing season?  Ice fishing?  Maybe you can export balut or something?  LOFL

I doubt anyone would let you join the cool club.

LC



Well let's see.  The most recent recent figures I can find are from '05 but..... Minnesota received $0.72 in federal spending per $1 of tax paid.  Louisiana received $1.78.  Thankfully other states were there to float you.  In fact that last time LA was under $1 per $1 received was 1984.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:14:54 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I always wonder about the people who fantasize about the balkanization of our nation.  The surefire way to go from number 1 in the world to second rate or third world.  


True, but balkanization is a fact.  We are becoming separate nations, in spirit, in political outlook, in culture, in speech and language, in all ways by which  we define the term "nation".

I wouldn't want to see it happen, but it very well could.  A lot of it can be reversed, but it will take the will to do so, by enacting the right laws, etc.

LC
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:16:10 PM EDT
[#24]
A possible Regionalized breakup






How the GDP's would rank on a world scale









Now I would imagine this would change dramatically as laws change and new countries change how they do things to compete and thrive, as others sink.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:17:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.

If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.


Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?


If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Probably wouldn't happen. If it did, most states, Kalifornistan EXCLUDED, are smart enough to realize that another superpower, like China, would be over here in a flash picking off the U.S. piecemeal. Kalifornistan would probably welcome our new masters with open arms.

But let's just say they're having their own problems. Texas would be pretty darn well off. They've got a shitpile of land, population, and about thirty military bases scattered around.

Kalifornistan, Oregon, and Washington would probably combine, as would the northeastern states. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.

Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula might form up too. They've all got quite a lot in common, but I'm sure they'd want to exclude Minneapolis. I live here and it's on a fast-track for Detroitification. Upper Peninsula, NOT the lower of Michigan. Too much Detroit in the L.P. We'd take them, but only if they agree to let North Dakota Nuke Detroit off the map. It's really the only way to be sure.


The better question is, who in the fuck would want Minnesota?  What do you guys bring to the table?  No oil, no ports, no seafood, maybe a little agriculture?  Very little, with your short growing season?  Ice fishing?  Maybe you can export balut or something?  LOFL

I doubt anyone would let you join the cool club.

LC



Well let's see.  The most recent recent figures I can find are from '05 but..... Minnesota received $0.72 in federal spending per $1 of tax paid.  Louisiana received $1.78.  Thankfully other states were there to float you.  In fact that last time LA was under $1 per $1 received was 1984.


Never said we were perfect.  But let's face it, you Northerners can't live without the energy provided by the Gulf States.  So stick that in yer pipe and smoke it.

LC
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:21:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:22:02 PM EDT
[#27]




Quoted:

I always wonder about the people who fantasize about the balkanization of our nation. The surefire way to go from number 1 in the world to second rate or third world.




I see it as, this country will eventually all go down together or some of the freer regions will break from the sinking boat anchors that socialism brings. Its like being on a boat and a certain section continue to get fatter and fatter and their end of the boat is sinking and they are trying to forcefeed you to eat more and chaining their legs to you. If you had the option to say, ok yall have this boat and we take that boat and lets see how things work out.





Keep in mind that the premise of the thread is that the federal government defaults so the standard of living is already going kaput. People that sat that our standard of living will go to shit, then why is it that countries like Australia have a very good standard of living? New Zealand? Even Estonia?



Hard Work, Liberty and Intelligence is what makes countries great. Not size.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:22:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.

If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.


Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?


If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Probably wouldn't happen. If it did, most states, Kalifornistan EXCLUDED, are smart enough to realize that another superpower, like China, would be over here in a flash picking off the U.S. piecemeal. Kalifornistan would probably welcome our new masters with open arms.

But let's just say they're having their own problems. Texas would be pretty darn well off. They've got a shitpile of land, population, and about thirty military bases scattered around.

Kalifornistan, Oregon, and Washington would probably combine, as would the northeastern states. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.

Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula might form up too. They've all got quite a lot in common, but I'm sure they'd want to exclude Minneapolis. I live here and it's on a fast-track for Detroitification. Upper Peninsula, NOT the lower of Michigan. Too much Detroit in the L.P. We'd take them, but only if they agree to let North Dakota Nuke Detroit off the map. It's really the only way to be sure.


The better question is, who in the fuck would want Minnesota?  What do you guys bring to the table?  No oil, no ports, no seafood, maybe a little agriculture?  Very little, with your short growing season?  Ice fishing?  Maybe you can export balut or something?  LOFL

I doubt anyone would let you join the cool club.

LC



Well let's see.  The most recent recent figures I can find are from '05 but..... Minnesota received $0.72 in federal spending per $1 of tax paid.  Louisiana received $1.78.  Thankfully other states were there to float you.  In fact that last time LA was under $1 per $1 received was 1984.


Never said we were perfect.  But let's face it, you Northerners can't live without the energy provided by the Gulf States.  So stick that in yer pipe and smoke it.

LC


We could, easily, if we could get our nuke plants back online.  But you are making my point for me.  The 50 states each contribute to the nation as a whole.  I'm happy to live in the most powerful nation on earth.  Liberals and Libertarians both seek to see the end of that.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:24:24 PM EDT
[#29]




Quoted:We could, easily, if we could get our nuke plants back online. But you are making my point for me. The 50 states each contribute to the nation as a whole. I'm happy to live in the most powerful nation on earth. Liberals and Libertarians both seek to see the end of that.


I see the end coming; I advocate the Galt's Gulch approach rather then the throw up your hands and accept what we get approach.





Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:24:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.

If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.


Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?


If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Probably wouldn't happen. If it did, most states, Kalifornistan EXCLUDED, are smart enough to realize that another superpower, like China, would be over here in a flash picking off the U.S. piecemeal. Kalifornistan would probably welcome our new masters with open arms.

But let's just say they're having their own problems. Texas would be pretty darn well off. They've got a shitpile of land, population, and about thirty military bases scattered around.

Kalifornistan, Oregon, and Washington would probably combine, as would the northeastern states. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.

Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula might form up too. They've all got quite a lot in common, but I'm sure they'd want to exclude Minneapolis. I live here and it's on a fast-track for Detroitification. Upper Peninsula, NOT the lower of Michigan. Too much Detroit in the L.P. We'd take them, but only if they agree to let North Dakota Nuke Detroit off the map. It's really the only way to be sure.


The better question is, who in the fuck would want Minnesota?  What do you guys bring to the table?  No oil, no ports, no seafood, maybe a little agriculture?  Very little, with your short growing season?  Ice fishing?  Maybe you can export balut or something?  LOFL

I doubt anyone would let you join the cool club.

LC



Well let's see.  The most recent recent figures I can find are from '05 but..... Minnesota received $0.72 in federal spending per $1 of tax paid.  Louisiana received $1.78.  Thankfully other states were there to float you.  In fact that last time LA was under $1 per $1 received was 1984.


Never said we were perfect.  But let's face it, you Northerners can't live without the energy provided by the Gulf States.  So stick that in yer pipe and smoke it.

LC


We could, easily, if we could get our nuke plants back online.  But you are making my point for me.  The 50 states each contribute to the nation as a whole. I'm happy to live in the most powerful nation on earth. Liberals and Libertarians both seek to see the end of that.


I assume your point is the one in red above, which I did not see you make anywhere else.

ETA:  Ooops, my bad.  You did.

LC
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:26:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now with _A gone, perhaps we can learn something about this topic.

If America goes bankrupt and defaults or currency hyperinflates, what are the chances of the US peacefully dismanteling like the former U.S.S.R.


Does anyone doubt that the peices, are better off now that they are no longer part of the greater whole?


If this were to happen, how would it happen?  Who would be the first states to withdraw, would any regional wars breakout?  Would any states merge?  



Probably wouldn't happen. If it did, most states, Kalifornistan EXCLUDED, are smart enough to realize that another superpower, like China, would be over here in a flash picking off the U.S. piecemeal. Kalifornistan would probably welcome our new masters with open arms.

But let's just say they're having their own problems. Texas would be pretty darn well off. They've got a shitpile of land, population, and about thirty military bases scattered around.

Kalifornistan, Oregon, and Washington would probably combine, as would the northeastern states. The Southern states have so much in common they'd probably either ally or form up. By Southern I mean, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, possibly Florida, but not Louisiana. Who the fuck wants Louisiana? Maybe if they could exclude New Orleans.

Iowa, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin, and Michigan's Upper Peninsula might form up too. They've all got quite a lot in common, but I'm sure they'd want to exclude Minneapolis. I live here and it's on a fast-track for Detroitification. Upper Peninsula, NOT the lower of Michigan. Too much Detroit in the L.P. We'd take them, but only if they agree to let North Dakota Nuke Detroit off the map. It's really the only way to be sure.


The better question is, who in the fuck would want Minnesota?  What do you guys bring to the table?  No oil, no ports, no seafood, maybe a little agriculture?  Very little, with your short growing season?  Ice fishing?  Maybe you can export balut or something?  LOFL

I doubt anyone would let you join the cool club.

LC



Well let's see.  The most recent recent figures I can find are from '05 but..... Minnesota received $0.72 in federal spending per $1 of tax paid.  Louisiana received $1.78.  Thankfully other states were there to float you.  In fact that last time LA was under $1 per $1 received was 1984.


Never said we were perfect.  But let's face it, you Northerners can't live without the energy provided by the Gulf States.  So stick that in yer pipe and smoke it.

LC


We could, easily, if we could get our nuke plants back online.  But you are making my point for me.  The 50 states each contribute to the nation as a whole.  I'm happy to live in the most powerful nation on earth.  Liberals and Libertarians both seek to see the end of that.


Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:27:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:

Quoted:
I always wonder about the people who fantasize about the balkanization of our nation. The surefire way to go from number 1 in the world to second rate or third world.


I see it as, this country will eventually all go down together or some of the freer regions will break from the sinking boat anchors that socialism brings. Its like being on a boat and a certain section continue to get fatter and fatter and their end of the boat is sinking and they are trying to forcefeed you to eat more and chaining their legs to you. If you had the option to say, ok yall have this boat and we take that boat and lets see how things work out.


Keep in mind that the premise of the thread is that the federal government defaults so the standard of living is already going kaput. People that sat that our standard of living will go to shit, then why is it that countries like Australia have a very good standard of living? New Zealand? Even Estonia?

Hard Work, Liberty and Intelligence is what makes countries great. Not size.


This isn't Australia, New Zealand or Estonia.  This is the United States of America.  I would be real worried about balkanization if I were you.  You share a very large border with a violence filled narco state.  How do you see that plyin out when the full power of the US Military is no longer present?
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:28:16 PM EDT
[#33]




Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York? Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive.




Yep,  they need us much more then we need them. Fuck it we dont remotely need them.



Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:29:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:30:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:31:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York? Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive.


Yep,  they need us much more then we need them. Fuck it we dont remotely need them.



Yup.  You have it all figured out.  By cherry picking states that you don't think you need.  As usual with most other geopolitical type topics, you guys fail to see the forest through the trees.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:32:20 PM EDT
[#37]



Quoted:



Quoted:



Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.




You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.


You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.



 
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:33:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I have a feeling TX would be the first to go...followed by AK Oklahoma.


Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:34:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.

You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.
 


Oh, you act like you would have a choice.  You would be Texas until Mexico decided they want Texas.  But I'm sure you could stand a fair chance without the backing of the US Military.....

Nothing exists in a vacuum.  Be careful what you wish for.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:36:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.

You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.
 


Let's see.  The Mexican military vs. 20-30 military bases of all types in Texas.  Hmmmmm, doesn't sound like all that much of a fight to me.  Hell, even after the Alamo, the Mexicans couldn't hold onto Texas.

LC

Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:41:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.

You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.
 


Oh, you act like you would have a choice.  You would be Texas until Mexico decided they want Texas.  But I'm sure you could stand a fair chance without the backing of the US Military.....

Nothing exists in a vacuum.  Be careful what you wish for.




Which part of Mexico?  The part that depends on us sending it manufacturing jobs or the part that depends on us accepting it's peasant migrant farm workers and sending back dollars?

Or the part that depends on the drug trade?

Let's assume, tho, that Mexico DID want to conquer Texas.  How would they do it?

You're assuming:

A.  that Mexico Is not on the brink of an outright civil war (it is)
B. Has the wherewithal to launch an invasion of anyone (it doesn't, it can't even overthrow the drug warlords in some of it's own States)
C. and that Texas has no military hardware or able-bodied population to man it

Tell me, how is Mexico going to conquer and hold a country with 268,000 square miles and 25 million citizens?

Without aid from the USA, Mexico is going to have alot more on it's mind than trying to reconquer Texas.  No way in hell would they even try.

Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:41:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.

You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.
 


Let's see.  The Mexican military vs. 20-30 military bases of all types in Texas.  Hmmmmm, doesn't sound like all that much of a fight to me.  Hell, even after the Alamo, the Mexicans couldn't hold onto Texas.

LC



You assume all the bases, equipment and manpower will stay?  Maybe some of it, not anywhere close to all if it.  Remeber most of that is US Military, not Texas.

Do I have to mention the vacuum thing again?
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:42:27 PM EDT
[#43]




Quoted:

I always wonder about the people who fantasize about the balkanization of our nation. The surefire way to go from number 1 in the world to second rate or third world.




+1



Nothing good could come from balkanization.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:44:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.

You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.
 


Let's see.  The Mexican military vs. 20-30 military bases of all types in Texas.  Hmmmmm, doesn't sound like all that much of a fight to me.  Hell, even after the Alamo, the Mexicans couldn't hold onto Texas.

LC



You assume all the bases, equipment and manpower will stay?  Maybe some of it, not anywhere close to all if it.  Remeber most of that is US Military, not Texas.

Do I have to mention the vacuum thing again?


Texas has the raw materials, manufacturing base, and technical capability to be a nuclear power.

Last I checked, the tex in Pantex didn't stand for Connecticut.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:44:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
I always wonder about the people who fantasize about the balkanization of our nation. The surefire way to go from number 1 in the world to second rate or third world.


I see it as, this country will eventually all go down together or some of the freer regions will break from the sinking boat anchors that socialism brings. Its like being on a boat and a certain section continue to get fatter and fatter and their end of the boat is sinking and they are trying to forcefeed you to eat more and chaining their legs to you. If you had the option to say, ok yall have this boat and we take that boat and lets see how things work out.


Keep in mind that the premise of the thread is that the federal government defaults so the standard of living is already going kaput. People that sat that our standard of living will go to shit, then why is it that countries like Australia have a very good standard of living? New Zealand? Even Estonia?

Hard Work, Liberty and Intelligence is what makes countries great. Not size.


This isn't Australia, New Zealand or Estonia.  This is the United States of America.  I would be real worried about balkanization if I were you.  You share a very large border with a violence filled narco state.  How do you see that plyin out when the full power of the US Military is no longer present?


Texas, Arizona and New Mexico could put an epic ass whooping on Mexico by themselves. I have a feeling there would be no shortage of willing volunteers either.

Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:44:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.

You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.
 


Oh, you act like you would have a choice.  You would be Texas until Mexico decided they want Texas.  But I'm sure you could stand a fair chance without the backing of the US Military.....

Nothing exists in a vacuum.  Be careful what you wish for.




Which part of Mexico?  The part that depends on us sending it manufacturing jobs or the part that depends on us accepting it's peasant migrant farm workers and sending back dollars?

Or the part that depends on the drug trade?

Let's assume, tho, that Mexico DID want to conquer Texas.  How would they do it?

You're assuming:

A.  that Mexico Is not on the brink of an outright civil war (it is)
B. Has the wherewithal to launch an invasion of anyone (it doesn't, it can't even overthrow the drug warlords in some of it's own States)
C. and that Texas has no military hardware or able-bodied population to man it

Tell me, how is Mexico going to conquer and hold a country with 268,000 square miles and 25 million citizens?

Without aid from the USA, Mexico is going to have alot more on it's mind than trying to reconquer Texas.  No way in hell would they even try.



No, you're right, the USA is holding Texas back.  Eveything will b awsome if you guys break off.  That ticking time bomb of a narco state belo you won't be of any trouble.  On the bright side, all of the beerca revolutionaries might actually have to grab a musket and join a fight instead of quoting the Founders from behind the safety of their keyboards.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:45:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.

You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.
 


Oh, you act like you would have a choice.  You would be Texas until Mexico decided they want Texas.  But I'm sure you could stand a fair chance without the backing of the US Military.....

Nothing exists in a vacuum.  Be careful what you wish for.




Which part of Mexico?  The part that depends on us sending it manufacturing jobs or the part that depends on us accepting it's peasant migrant farm workers and sending back dollars?

Or the part that depends on the drug trade?

Let's assume, tho, that Mexico DID want to conquer Texas.  How would they do it?

You're assuming:

A.  that Mexico Is not on the brink of an outright civil war (it is)
B. Has the wherewithal to launch an invasion of anyone (it doesn't, it can't even overthrow the drug warlords in some of it's own States)
C. and that Texas has no military hardware or able-bodied population to man it

Tell me, how is Mexico going to conquer and hold a country with 268,000 square miles and 25 million citizens?

Without aid from the USA, Mexico is going to have alot more on it's mind than trying to reconquer Texas.  No way in hell would they even try.



No, you're right, the USA is holding Texas back.  Eveything will b awsome if you guys break off.  That ticking time bomb of a narco state belo you won't be of any trouble.  On the bright side, all of the beerca revolutionaries might actually have to grab a musket and join a fight instead of quoting the Founders from behind the safety of their keyboards.


lol, mad?
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:48:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:

Texas has the raw materials, manufacturing base, and technical capability to be a nuclear power.

Last I checked, the tex in Pantex didn't stand for Connecticut.


For some reason you seem to think that the USA is only CT and TX.  Why is this?  What I am trying to tell you isn't all that complex.

Manufacturing as we know it today was born in the CT river valley.  GE and UTC are both CT based companies.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:49:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:

Whatever would Texas do without Connecticut or New York?  Dear me, I don't know if we could possibly survive without the EPA trying to "punish" our industry into submission.


You wouldn't be living in Texas anymore.  You would be consumed by Mexico.  Try acting like someone who understands that nothing exists in a vacuum.

You don't understand Texas at all then.   Texans of Mexican decent do not want Mexico, no one wants Mexico.  If not for the feds, we would actually be able to protect our borders.
 


Let's see.  The Mexican military vs. 20-30 military bases of all types in Texas.  Hmmmmm, doesn't sound like all that much of a fight to me.  Hell, even after the Alamo, the Mexicans couldn't hold onto Texas.

LC



You assume all the bases, equipment and manpower will stay?  Maybe some of it, not anywhere close to all if it.  Remeber most of that is US Military, not Texas.

Do I have to mention the vacuum thing again?


Uh, I guess not, seeing as how 1Andy2 has thoroughly debunked your theory.............

LC
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 7:50:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:

lol, mad?


Not at all.  I get a laugh out of topics like this.  It reminds me that ARFCOM GD and reality are two very different places.
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