Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/27/2004 10:59:07 AM EST
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was just informed by Phil from the Brick Armory that all mags over 15 rounds whether blocked or not are now ILLEGAL in NJ. The State Police can into his shop today and told him he could no longer sell them. BE WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:53:05 PM EST
BS

I guess you forgot about that little line in the constitution reguarding ex-post facto laws
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:13:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By Trey-W:
BS

I guess you forgot about that little line in the constitution reguarding ex-post facto laws



If you own something, and it becomes contraband (i.e. possession is now illegal), you still have to get rid of it. You could only claim ex post facto if they prosecuted you for possessing it before it became contraband.

jafager
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:13:55 PM EST
Sorry, this is NJ we are talking about. We have our own Constitution here in the People's Republik of NJ.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:17:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By jafager:

Originally Posted By Trey-W:
BS

I guess you forgot about that little line in the constitution reguarding ex-post facto laws



If you own something, and it becomes contraband (i.e. possession is now illegal), you still have to get rid of it. You could only claim ex post facto if they prosecuted you for possessing it before it became contraband.

jafager



Last i checked, making somthing illegal and than requireing it be turned over where failure to do so would result in jail time or a fine, sounds like an ex post facto law to me.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:22:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:
Last i checked, making somthing illegal and than requireing it be turned over where failure to do so would result in jail time or a fine, sounds like an ex post facto law to me.



Not without a very loose interpretation of "ex post facto". And not that it matters, because even if you were right, the executive branch would happily enforce it anyway, and the judicial branch would sign off on it like they always do.

The reason you see grandfather clauses is political pragmatism, not because lawmakers give a rat's ass about Constitutional implications.

jafager
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:30:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By jafager:

Originally Posted By photoman:
Last i checked, making somthing illegal and than requireing it be turned over where failure to do so would result in jail time or a fine, sounds like an ex post facto law to me.



Not without a very loose interpretation of "ex post facto". And not that it matters, because even if you were right, the executive branch would happily enforce it anyway, and the judicial branch would sign off on it like they always do.

The reason you see grandfather clauses is political pragmatism, not because lawmakers give a rat's ass about Constitutional implications.

jafager



No, the reason you see grandfather clauses is the Takings clause of the 5th Amendment.

What you have described would be an ex post facto law if they did not allow you a reasonable time to come into compliance with the law before it took effect. Additionally without such a period, you'd also have the Takings problem - government taking all economically viable use of your private property for a public purpose (ostensibly public safety).

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:35:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 2:49:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:06:30 PM EST
no shit, If you block it to 15 rounds it can be converted back to the original capacity so its illegal.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:29:32 PM EST
Can't find a link as yet. This happened at 3PM today. I do know Phil and he has no reason to make this up.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 3:42:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:

Last i checked, making somthing illegal and than requireing it be turned over where failure to do so would result in jail time or a fine, sounds like an ex post facto law to me.



You may want to check again then, since that is not ex-post facto, which was already correctly explained.

NJ outlawed silencers in the 20s', if you still have one, do you think it is legal because you owned it before they made it illegal?

NJ outlawed fireworks in the 60s', if you still have some, do you think it is legal because you owned it before they made it illegal?

Anyway, back to the original topic. How could a law like this work its way through the legisllature and get signed into law without anyone knowing? Or is this some kind of re-intepretation of an existing law?
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:46:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:23:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:06:15 PM EST
Hmm This came out of nowhere
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:18:52 PM EST
I read a post that said something about buying a orlite magazine and putting a screw through it to block it at 15rds...... that would not get approved by the ATF because you can just take the screw out.

Unless you cut the magazine down and bend new floorplate tabs so it only holds 15 rounds plan on going to jail because its illegal and always was. Get written approval from the ATF first.

It may be BS, but your state law says it cannot hold more than 15rds and your all obviously breaking that law by ordering 20 and 30rd magazines THEN blocking them. I would bet most if not all of them could easily be converted back to the original capacity.



Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:19:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Trey-W:
BS

I guess you forgot about that little line in the constitution reguarding ex-post facto laws




Since when has that stopped them?
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:28:40 PM EST
Do the NJ State Police still have those NAZI looking uniforms?

I was just wondering.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 11:18:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By JustL00king:
I read a post that said something about buying a orlite magazine and putting a screw through it to block it at 15rds...... that would not get approved by the ATF because you can just take the screw out.

Unless you cut the magazine down and bend new floorplate tabs so it only holds 15 rounds plan on going to jail because its illegal and always was. Get written approval from the ATF first.

It may be BS, but your state law says it cannot hold more than 15rds and your all obviously breaking that law by ordering 20 and 30rd magazines THEN blocking them. I would bet most if not all of them could easily be converted back to the original capacity.



I'm sorry but you simply have no idea what you're talking about. These are pre-ban mags so the ATF does not even come in play here; they are not in charge of enforcing NJ state laws or making policy on them. There has never been a ban on magazines that can be easily converted to high caps in NJ. But hell if I'm the one getting arrested by the state police to show that these mags fall outside the definition of a high cap in NJ. I wonder if they have normal capacity mags in their SIGs.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 3:11:04 AM EST
Has anyone taken apart a bushmaster mag??? They are 20 rd mags blocked to 10rds---i would be willing to work on mods for the 30's to do the same process as the bushmaster if someone would have photos of a cut down bushmaster mag.
JIMBO
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 5:40:28 AM EST
I made a 15 rounder out of a 30 a while back. A little dremeling a little hammering, works fine.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:10:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 11:06:26 AM EST by 223Rem]

Originally Posted By FMJunkie:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
Anyway, back to the original topic. How could a law like this work its way through the legisllature and get signed into law without anyone knowing? Or is this some kind of re-intepretation of an existing law?



Its something called a 'rules change' and is not a new law but an administrative clarification of previously passed legislation. It is complete and total underhanded bullshit but it is something the NJ State Police can do...



Yet our Governor can appoint an Israeli National (with no security background experience what so ever) to the top Security Position in NJ, the NJ supreme court can rule against ( actually ignore) legislation concerning the electorial process and the state police still use "profiling" as well as enforce their provisions of firearm laws without it being passed by the legislature and Governor.

Top it all off, my girlfriend and I today received letters from the state division of taxation that we did not pay out income tax for 2003. Funny thing is, we both filed online, using NJ's own system and paid via CC. This is the epitomy of "Taxation without representation". Can't wait til Monday to give them a call and chew someone a new asshole!

Link Posted: 8/28/2004 9:35:53 AM EST
NJ Governor ManGravy....shining example of the Democratic Party at work in NJ.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 2:56:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 2:58:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 2:59:21 PM EST
If you live in NJ, you are never more than an hour from PA...and we dont have stupid fkn capacity laws here....oh, and we are GARAUNTEED our right to carry concealed.

Bottom line - move. (i did)
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 4:21:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 4:36:45 PM EST
The Legistature agreed that they would not make it permenant change about a year ago, just keep quiet about temporay being ok. Same Person told me that and said that McGreevey was gay and so were several of the members of the Legistature. This could be some Trooper just saying it to sound self important.
The Temporary/Permanent has always been an administrative rule. But beware Codey is worse than McGreevey to gun owners and also LEOs.
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 10:03:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 10:05:44 PM EST by Rampart178]
Ok, here's some background on this whole messy thing. Phil at the Brick Armory was visited by the NJSP and as always, everything was ship-shape. The reason for the visit was because a customer of his got jammed up when he decided to go outside of his apartment with his ol' black rifle when he heard what he thought was gunfire (it was fireworks). Bunch of kids saw him strutting around playing ARMY and the local PD later paid him a visit. Some high caps for a different firearm (SAR-1) that was purchased through Phil were found - and they were blocked in accordance with NJ law. Problem was, they found non-blocked hi caps for several firearms as well and this stand up gentleman told them that he purchased them from Phil. That's the reason "they" were there. And again, everything on Phil's end was in order and I highly doubt that he would risk losing his business and freedom by selling non-blocked hi caps to anyone - including this apartment complex commando. If the NJSP notified local PD's like the initial post in the other forum stated, nothing has been put out where I work. I think it was a recommendation to Phil from the Firearms Unit that he might want to rethink selling the blocked hi caps - because the rule is open to interpretation.

Nothing's been passed on where I work and I don't think the State of NJ has changed it's stance on the issue. I'll check with my contacts at the Firearms Unit on Monday. Till then...

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 1:02:21 AM EST
More info from The High Road


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=1211940#post1211940

"Jimbo I was down at CJR&P today and Phil caught up with Nappen. The version he told Nappen was the State Police came into his store and told him the AG said that all hi caps including blocked are illegal and Nappen's seemed surprised to here it and that it is a preemptive move to stop the AWB repeal on 9/13.

I also heard about that guy in Wall walking around an apartment complex with an AR!!!!!.


__________________
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 1:14:04 AM EST
I am the Orlite blocker, BTW - And there are two solutions to having an evil looking mag that holds 15 rounds, that are easy to do. One, in vent a long slightly curved follower. end of story. Two, a screw/bolt/nut in an orlite in teh right position, and if this law is true, then I am simply griding down the screw head and nut to make it 'permanent'.
Top Top