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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:44:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:47:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: if some dude squeezes my nuts at the airport you are going to see me on the news. Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:48:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. So if they squeeze, and you drop into a fetal position, you may board? |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:48:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
BTW, my pregnant wife decided not to go through the backscatter machine and was whisked through a standard metal detector with no pat down. there's your solution |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:50:54 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm not into nekkid dudes so naked Pitchers at an Airport are definitely not going to do it for me. Stoner Student on the other hand..........
 
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:52:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country.  |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:53:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
BTW, my pregnant wife decided not to go through the backscatter machine and was whisked through a standard metal detector with no pat down. there's your solution Sounds nice until it's not an option. You're also missing the threat of the thorough feel-up. I just remembered that on the outbound flight, the guy in charge of the carry-on x-ray machine required further screening of about every 5th or 6th bag. My bag had to be opened because of what I assume was an unusual rectangular homogeneous substance, a loaf of homemade bread. The plus was that the supervisor that handled that secondary review was very quick and courteous. Its too bad they let the slow guy operate the machine and slow the process down so much. If that had been at a small airport with a single security line it would have been a nightmare. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:53:50 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Quoted: if some dude squeezes my nuts at the airport you are going to see me on the news. Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. No kidding. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:55:46 PM EDT
[#9]
I've often wondered about terrorists surgically implanting bombs into their bodies. I wonder if that would be even possible. Sure would make the backscatter x-ray useless.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 1:57:18 PM EDT
[#10]
In before the Tough Guy claims..... whoops! Too late!
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:07:56 PM EDT
[#11]
It's not right and you know it. I'm not going through it and neither are my kids.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:10:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. But questioning Hispanics about their citizenship is offensive. Hax |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:13:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: if some dude squeezes my nuts at the airport you are going to see me on the news. Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. Holy fuck I lol'd! |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:18:26 PM EDT
[#14]
.,,
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:20:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. But questioning Hispanics about their citizenship is offensive. Hax Unless your selling them a gun in Texas. 
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:29:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks, but I'll just stay home, video conference, drive or take the train. I refuse to subject myself to the level of bullshit required to fly thanks to a joint program from our utterly useless federal government and the ROP.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:30:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I've often wondered about terrorists surgically implanting bombs into their bodies. I wonder if that would be even possible. Sure would make the backscatter x-ray useless. You don't need to surgically implant anything. Most people have enough holes to be filled as it is. I wonder what the news will call the first haji who gets caught trying to board a plane with an assfull of explosives. A descriptive title like "shoe bomber" is certainly out... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:33:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: I believe this happened you would be amazed how well the human body will absorb a bunch of the explosion. Quoted: I've often wondered about terrorists surgically implanting bombs into their bodies. I wonder if that would be even possible. Sure would make the backscatter x-ray useless. You don't need to surgically implant anything. Most people have enough holes to be filled as it is. I wonder what the news will call the first haji who gets caught trying to board a plane with an assfull of explosives. A descriptive title like "shoe bomber" is certainly out... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:33:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've often wondered about terrorists surgically implanting bombs into their bodies. I wonder if that would be even possible. Sure would make the backscatter x-ray useless. You don't need to surgically implant anything. Most people have enough holes to be filled as it is. I wonder what the news will call the first haji who gets caught trying to board a plane with an assfull of explosives. A descriptive title like "shoe bomber" is certainly out... You'd be able to carry a greater amount of explosives through surgical implantation. Your butt-hole shouldn't be THAT big. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:35:02 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:35:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
if some dude squeezes my nuts at the airport you are going to see me on the news.
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. No kidding. +1 |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:37:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Easy solution, stop flying. Haven't been on a plane since before 9-11.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:41:27 PM EDT
[#23]
shOuld have given them a little helicopter action
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:43:45 PM EDT
[#24]
So does anyone know of any explanation why one would need to remove their belt and empty their pockets first?
ETA: While googling "backscatter x-ray take off belt" to try and find out more info on this, this thread was the third result. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:48:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: So does anyone know of any explanation why one would need to remove their belt and empty their pockets first? I think the reason is that the normal x-ray your bags go through is better at looking at objects like your belt and the stuff in your pockets, plus the screeners can see these items easily with their own eyes if they need to. For example a weapon or explosives sewn into a belt may not be visible in the backscatter but should turn up on the other x-ray. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:49:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
if some dude squeezes my nuts at the airport you are going to see me on the news.
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. "Whoops, sorry about my involuntary reflex action. I'm sure the blood will stop soon..."
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:50:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Someone who isnt a cute chick with a few drinks in her grabs my ball they are gonna get a boot in theirs followed by a punch in their cock sucker.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:53:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I've often wondered about terrorists surgically implanting bombs into their bodies. I wonder if that would be even possible. Sure would make the backscatter x-ray useless. They've already done that in Saudi Arabia and you're right...makes the machine useless. But don't let that stop the govenrment from using them to abandon all common sense. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:54:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I believe this happened you would be amazed how well the human body will absorb a bunch of the explosion.
Quoted:
I've often wondered about terrorists surgically implanting bombs into their bodies. I wonder if that would be even possible. Sure would make the backscatter x-ray useless. You don't need to surgically implant anything. Most people have enough holes to be filled as it is. I wonder what the news will call the first haji who gets caught trying to board a plane with an assfull of explosives. A descriptive title like "shoe bomber" is certainly out... I doubt it will be long until you are no longer allowed to go to the bathroom by yourself on a plane - too much risk you could pull that bomb out of you @ss. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:55:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. if some dude squeezes my nuts at the airport you are going to see me on the news. This 
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:56:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I recently came across one of these new backscatter x-ray systems at a relatively small airport when returning from vacation. A thorough pat down was threatened if you refused to go through the machine. To smooth things along I went through the backscatter machine and they demanded that I take my belt off and remove everything from my pockets. What the fuck is the point of this gizmo if it can't tell what is in my pockets is!!!!!!! Then I had to stand in a specific spot under personal guard getting airport foot fungus while someone looked at the image for a minute. I saw Total Recall and the idea of passing through security without having to disrobe or empty your pockets seemed pretty reasonable. Instead we have a system that is apparently totally worthless and just increases my risk of cancer without being able to see anything. As with most things TSA, a gigantic CF. BTW, my pregnant wife decided not to go through the backscatter machine and was whisked through a standard metal detector with no pat down. Because the machine does not take 'naked pictures', it merely shows if you're hiding anything. 'Remove everything from your pockets' is just like 'remove your laptop and electronics from their bags - it eliminates false positives... And the 'increased risk of cancer' is just as  as the 'naked' crap... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:56:30 PM EDT
[#32]
And this is why I no longer fly or have a desire to fly.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:56:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. Thank the underbomber for that... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:57:28 PM EDT
[#34]
So walk through with wood every time.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:58:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
if some dude squeezes my nuts at the airport you are going to see me on the news.
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. Yup. I am no fan of the nudie pic-generating machines, either. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 2:59:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: I've often wondered about terrorists surgically implanting bombs into their bodies. I wonder if that would be even possible. Sure would make the backscatter x-ray useless. Maybe AQ doesn't have good enough doctors, to do this and have the guy survive long enough without symptoms/suspicious behavior.... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:00:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
So does anyone know of any explanation why one would need to remove their belt and empty their pockets first? Because even though TSA has spent a cubic assload of taxpayer money on the machines, they still have to pay those unionized, walking lobotomies at the airports to do something (aka losing your watch, wallet, jewelry, and cell phone while you walk through the machine ) |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:04:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I recently came across one of these new backscatter x-ray systems at a relatively small airport when returning from vacation. A thorough pat down was threatened if you refused to go through the machine. To smooth things along I went through the backscatter machine and they demanded that I take my belt off and remove everything from my pockets. What the fuck is the point of this gizmo if it can't tell what is in my pockets is!!!!!!! Then I had to stand in a specific spot under personal guard getting airport foot fungus while someone looked at the image for a minute. I saw Total Recall and the idea of passing through security without having to disrobe or empty your pockets seemed pretty reasonable. Instead we have a system that is apparently totally worthless and just increases my risk of cancer without being able to see anything. As with most things TSA, a gigantic CF. BTW, my pregnant wife decided not to go through the backscatter machine and was whisked through a standard metal detector with no pat down. Because the machine does not take 'naked pictures', it merely shows if you're hiding anything. 'Remove everything from your pockets' is just like 'remove your laptop and electronics from their bags - it eliminates false positives... And the 'increased risk of cancer' is just as as the 'naked' crap...
Have you seen the images they generate? I think it's pretty retarded to require that I remove my laptop from a fabric case too. Convenience is important. If it's not, then why not just make me take off all but my boxers? you may say it is a small increase in risk, but it is certainly an increase in risk. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:08:21 PM EDT
[#39]
When I was flying out of Albuquerque, I switched security lines out of the nad scanner line into a standard metal detector line, mostly because it is so slow. Most other airports use them to replace frisking not the metal detectors. BTW ABQ has the slowest security that I've seen, plan ahead if you are unfortunate to travel through there.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:12:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: So does anyone know of any explanation why one would need to remove their belt and empty their pockets first? ETA: While googling "backscatter x-ray take off belt" to try and find out more info on this, this thread was the third result. 1) Due to (understandable) privacy concerns, the machines do not show full-resolution 'naked pictures'. The price is having to take stuff out of pockets, and remove belts.. 2) It is possible that items in pockets - or a belt - made of the right materials, would be able to 'shield' something prohibited. 3) Do you really want the TSA 'determining' weather that's a gun in your pocket, or (whatever)? By eliminating things that WILL generate a return it makes things easier... |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:17:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I recently came across one of these new backscatter x-ray systems at a relatively small airport when returning from vacation. A thorough pat down was threatened if you refused to go through the machine. To smooth things along I went through the backscatter machine and they demanded that I take my belt off and remove everything from my pockets. What the fuck is the point of this gizmo if it can't tell what is in my pockets is!!!!!!! Then I had to stand in a specific spot under personal guard getting airport foot fungus while someone looked at the image for a minute. I saw Total Recall and the idea of passing through security without having to disrobe or empty your pockets seemed pretty reasonable. Instead we have a system that is apparently totally worthless and just increases my risk of cancer without being able to see anything. As with most things TSA, a gigantic CF. BTW, my pregnant wife decided not to go through the backscatter machine and was whisked through a standard metal detector with no pat down. Because the machine does not take 'naked pictures', it merely shows if you're hiding anything. 'Remove everything from your pockets' is just like 'remove your laptop and electronics from their bags - it eliminates false positives... And the 'increased risk of cancer' is just as as the 'naked' crap...Have you seen the images they generate? Yes. Looks like monocrhorme bad late-90s video-game graphics... There are 3 types of 'Body Scan' pictures on the web: 1) The actual airport ones 2) A much more detailed image, from the military-grade equipment used in Iraq/AFG 3) A specific, FAKE picture that isn't a body-scan at all, but rather a 'shopped photo of a naked chick made to look like a body-scan I think it's pretty retarded to require that I remove my laptop from a fabric case too. Well, Capitalisim has solved that one - there are now 'TSA certified' laptop bags that do not require you to remove the laptop. Once again though, 'shields' are the concern... Not an issue with clothes, but an issue with almost everything else... Convenience is important. If it's not, then why not just make me take off all but my boxers? Which is why we have body scans instead of pat-downs you may say it is a small increase in risk, but it is certainly an increase in risk. Totally different. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:19:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've often wondered about terrorists surgically implanting bombs into their bodies. I wonder if that would be even possible. Sure would make the backscatter x-ray useless. You don't need to surgically implant anything. Most people have enough holes to be filled as it is. I wonder what the news will call the first haji who gets caught trying to board a plane with an assfull of explosives. A descriptive title like "shoe bomber" is certainly out... You'd be able to carry a greater amount of explosives through surgical implantation. Your butt-hole shouldn't be THAT big. You're just trying to take out a thin-skinned airliner, not take out a city block. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:19:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So does anyone know of any explanation why one would need to remove their belt and empty their pockets first? ETA: While googling "backscatter x-ray take off belt" to try and find out more info on this, this thread was the third result. 1) Due to (understandable) privacy concerns, the machines do not show full-resolution 'naked pictures'. The price is having to take stuff out of pockets, and remove belts.. 2) It is possible that items in pockets - or a belt - made of the right materials, would be able to 'shield' something prohibited. 3) Do you really want the TSA 'determining' weather that's a gun in your pocket, or (whatever)? By eliminating things that WILL generate a return it makes things easier... 1) I've seen pictures from these scanners that clearly show balls and nipples, I suppose you would argue that shitty porn isn't a naked picture because it's too low a resolution. 2) Is it not possible that my clothing could "shield" something? Do my clothes not generate a return? The images I have seen make it very clear that they can distinguish a belt or car keys from a gun. If it can't do that, then it's not as good as the old metal detector. 3) I don't want TSA "determining" anything based on a machine that can see my dick but can't tell my belt from a gun or a bomb. The problem here is that it doesn't make things easier. Rather than increasing the pain in the ass for everyone, they could use it as a screening tool to identify potential problems that they want to investigate further, just like they do the baggage x-ray. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:28:02 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So does anyone know of any explanation why one would need to remove their belt and empty their pockets first? ETA: While googling "backscatter x-ray take off belt" to try and find out more info on this, this thread was the third result. 1) Due to (understandable) privacy concerns, the machines do not show full-resolution 'naked pictures'. The price is having to take stuff out of pockets, and remove belts.. Wrong. The machines show full res. The reason that you have to remove belts and empty your pockets is because anything more dense than fabric will bounce the energy back. Quoted:
2) It is possible that items in pockets - or a belt - made of the right materials, would be able to 'shield' something prohibited. A piece of paper will shield the signal. Quoted:
3) Do you really want the TSA 'determining' weather that's a gun in your pocket, or (whatever)? Nope, I want them in the welfare line. Quoted:
By eliminating things that WILL generate a return it makes things easier... Well, anything to make their lives easier.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:28:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I recently came across one of these new backscatter x-ray systems at a relatively small airport when returning from vacation. A thorough pat down was threatened if you refused to go through the machine. To smooth things along I went through the backscatter machine and they demanded that I take my belt off and remove everything from my pockets. What the fuck is the point of this gizmo if it can't tell what is in my pockets is!!!!!!! Then I had to stand in a specific spot under personal guard getting airport foot fungus while someone looked at the image for a minute. I saw Total Recall and the idea of passing through security without having to disrobe or empty your pockets seemed pretty reasonable. Instead we have a system that is apparently totally worthless and just increases my risk of cancer without being able to see anything. As with most things TSA, a gigantic CF. BTW, my pregnant wife decided not to go through the backscatter machine and was whisked through a standard metal detector with no pat down. Because the machine does not take 'naked pictures', it merely shows if you're hiding anything. 'Remove everything from your pockets' is just like 'remove your laptop and electronics from their bags - it eliminates false positives... And the 'increased risk of cancer' is just as as the 'naked' crap...
Have you seen the images they generate? Yes. Looks like monocrhorme bad late-90s video-game graphics... There are 3 types of 'Body Scan' pictures on the web: 1) The actual airport ones 2) A much more detailed image, from the military-grade equipment used in Iraq/AFG 3) A specific, FAKE picture that isn't a body-scan at all, but rather a 'shopped photo of a naked chick made to look like a body-scan I think it's pretty retarded to require that I remove my laptop from a fabric case too. Well, Capitalisim has solved that one - there are now 'TSA certified' laptop bags that do not require you to remove the laptop. Once again though, 'shields' are the concern... Not an issue with clothes, but an issue with almost everything else... Convenience is important. If it's not, then why not just make me take off all but my boxers? Which is why we have body scans instead of pat-downs you may say it is a small increase in risk, but it is certainly an increase in risk. Totally different. images of people with no clothes on = naked pictures http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/08/imaging-technolgy-bigger-picture.html So fabric clothing isn't a shield, but a fabric bag and a piece of paper in my pocket are? So, do you admit it is an increase in risk now after you previously said it wasn't? |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:32:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
if some dude squeezes my nuts at the airport you are going to see me on the news.
Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. This. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:32:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Oh, it gets better. Two airports are testing 'enhanced' pat downs. Where they will then squeeze your nuts to make sure they are real. I'm so glad I live in a free country. Someone is going to end up with their fist stuck in the top of some TSA dude's skull  |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:33:30 PM EDT
[#48]
flew out of aberdeen, south dakota after a hunting trip. I removed boots and belt emptied pockets and all the bs. My buddy left his shoes on after the TSA dude told him he might want to remove them. For some reason my buddy was "randomly" selected for a secondary screening and i made the joke, the TSA dude just wants to feel you up. Everyone in ear shot busted out laughing but my buddy said, "i think you are right cause he just grazed my nutsack" I didnt think we were going to be able to get on our flight with the looks we were getting from that agent.
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:34:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I recently came across one of these new backscatter x-ray systems at a relatively small airport when returning from vacation. A thorough pat down was threatened if you refused to go through the machine. To smooth things along I went through the backscatter machine and they demanded that I take my belt off and remove everything from my pockets. What the fuck is the point of this gizmo if it can't tell what is in my pockets is!!!!!!! Then I had to stand in a specific spot under personal guard getting airport foot fungus while someone looked at the image for a minute. I saw Total Recall and the idea of passing through security without having to disrobe or empty your pockets seemed pretty reasonable. Instead we have a system that is apparently totally worthless and just increases my risk of cancer without being able to see anything. As with most things TSA, a gigantic CF. BTW, my pregnant wife decided not to go through the backscatter machine and was whisked through a standard metal detector with no pat down. Because the machine does not take 'naked pictures', it merely shows if you're hiding anything. 'Remove everything from your pockets' is just like 'remove your laptop and electronics from their bags - it eliminates false positives... And the 'increased risk of cancer' is just as as the 'naked' crap...Have you seen the images they generate? Yes. Looks like monocrhorme bad late-90s video-game graphics... There are 3 types of 'Body Scan' pictures on the web: 1) The actual airport ones 2) A much more detailed image, from the military-grade equipment used in Iraq/AFG 3) A specific, FAKE picture that isn't a body-scan at all, but rather a 'shopped photo of a naked chick made to look like a body-scan I think it's pretty retarded to require that I remove my laptop from a fabric case too. Well, Capitalisim has solved that one - there are now 'TSA certified' laptop bags that do not require you to remove the laptop. Once again though, 'shields' are the concern... Not an issue with clothes, but an issue with almost everything else... Convenience is important. If it's not, then why not just make me take off all but my boxers? Which is why we have body scans instead of pat-downs you may say it is a small increase in risk, but it is certainly an increase in risk. Totally different. images of people with no clothes on = naked pictures http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/08/imaging-technolgy-bigger-picture.html That's the 'late 90s video-game graphics' I was talking about... Naked pictures = 'NSFW'/pornographic... Those are certainly neither... So fabric clothing isn't a shield, but a fabric bag and a piece of paper in my pocket are? The fabric bag could conceivably be fabric-over-metal. Clothing, that's unlikely. Plain 'fabric' is not an x-ray shield, which is why 'TSA-certified' laptop bags are now being sold. - you don't have to take your laptop out of one of those. So, do you admit it is an increase in risk now after you previously said it wasn't? No. See above. |
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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:38:56 PM EDT
[#50]
So if you were to shove 5 pounds of semtex up your ass then choose a seat directly over a vulnerable aircraft component would it act as a shaped charge?
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