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Posted: 3/13/2014 7:35:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2014 12:40:20 PM EDT by Natalbany_River]
Sadly, yesterday the Oklahoma Legislature passed HJR 1082 which reads "HJR 1082, as introduced, puts to a vote of the people a proposal for a state Constitutional Convention to convene in 2015 and provides for the selection of delegates.".  

Oklahoma, if this passes the OK Senate, will be the 19th state calling for a state Constitutional Convention.

What is bad about this is that when a sufficient number of states have Constitutional Conventions for their state they can continue and effortlessly call one for the US Government.  MAKE NO MISTAKE, THIS IS A COORDINATED EFFORT by our "government leaders" to back door a Constitutional Convention on a federal level that is supported by dems and RINOS.  

My own legislator, Sean Roberts, voted for this despite being warned.  His response and reasoning is to pass laws to fix the bad things happening in government....how naïve he is.  If they won't respect the laws we have now why later?  

FACT IS that we may be about to massively lose our rights and U.S. Constitution.  This has been a quiet movement that you guys need to know about...we got blindsided about a week ago.  

When a Constitutional Convention is called "We the people" have no control.  Period.  The delegates can do what they want and don't be so silly as to think you control them or that they will do the right thing.

Our God given rights may lose their Constitutional protections.  If a Constitutional Convention is called do you not imagine what the liberal/progressive/socialists will do?  We can, legally by vehicle of our current U.S. Constitution, become a Communist nation or legally sanctioned Oligarchy at the extreme.

We're fighting with what we have left now to keep this from happening.   You guys need to be aware to help stop or repeal it in your states.

This is Colorado, New York and Connecticut on a truly nuclear scale when it comes to the right to bear arms, have free speech, personal ownership of home and property, being innocent until proven guilty, etc.
Link Posted: 3/13/2014 12:35:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Natalbany_River:
This is Colorado, New York and Connecticut on a truly nuclear scale when it comes to the right to bear arms, have free speech, personal ownership of home and property, being innocent until proven guilty, etc.
View Quote

Don't forget the political prisoners NJ is now detaining......

Link Posted: 3/13/2014 5:48:32 PM EDT
Wait what....??

Are you aware that most of the Republican states are very small in population compared to Democratic states?

A Constitutional Convention actually favors Republicans because each state, regardless of size, gets one vote.

It would be like doing an electoral college where California didn't get 54 votes and North Dakota and Wyoming get 3... but instead everyone gets one vote.

It is actually your only chance to get Amendments like sanctity of marriage, fetus rights, and a balanced budget passed... because it will never happen in Congress.

It is being pushed by liberals to overturn Citizen's United so people like the Koch's can't usurp our democratic process with unlimited money. Republicans should also be in favor of it so people like Soros can't do the same.

And a slight correction, but the rights bestowed upon you in the Constitution do not come from God. Ask any black man if he thinks God had a hand in writing the Constitution by counting 3/5's of his ancestors.

But with 70% of the country being Christian anyways, maybe you can for once make an Amendment declaring us to once and for all, be a Christian Nation.
Link Posted: 3/13/2014 8:14:37 PM EDT
First, you have the right to believe in God or not and whether our rights are God given or not.  I have my opinion, you have yours and you are free to state your opinion.  When you run on with the editorial comments concerning God you, whether you realize it or not, do that as an attempt to belittle me.  I don't make fun of your beliefs, I expect the same from you.  

Next, I don't think we can count on "Republicans" to vote conservative.  We had both houses of Congress and a Republican President just a few years ago and it didn't move the "political needle".  I can't fathom any path that allows for a correct choice from the people who sent people like Obama and the sellouts Boehner and McConnell to office to do better selecting constitutional convention candidates.  Why should I think delegates will be any better than congressmen who lie, cheat and steal?

Since the foundation of this movement is instigated and promoted by liberal/progressives hiding in the Democratic party and is endorsed by the RINO's I don't see where it matters that Republicans are favored.  On the surface I'd have to believe the Republicans would have a backbone and there is no evidence that the Republican leadership, who will be influential in selection of candidates, will grow a spine.  Repub leaders and Dems are on the same path....just different trajectories.  


Link Posted: 3/13/2014 8:38:47 PM EDT
So what I think I heard you say is that, if liberals/progressives are for something, there is no possible way an honest conservative could also be for it too?

Getting money out of politics does nothing for you at all?
Link Posted: 3/14/2014 1:20:04 PM EDT
More like there are not enough honest conservatives, progressives, independents or liberals or whatever in leadership that anyone can trust a process.  Each group stands to lose rights protected under the current constitution, like free speech, property ownership issues, and 2A as well as other protected rights we tank for granted in our everyday lives.

Current Republican and Democrat leaders are, as I believe, in it to benefit themselves and cronies not to benefit "We the people...".  It would be a stretch to believe delegates they help select (by political meddling or appointments) would have interests in what benefits the people.  

Doubt abounds that a new nation, in essence, that has a new political process will fix current problems with new laws, rules, regulations or by reduced rights to secure safety.  The current leadership ignores current law and legal process....why would anyone think they will honor a new legal system of their own construction (at least without rigging it for themselves)?  Politicians on both sides have played people the last 5 or 6 decades by promoting new laws to "fix an injustice or travesty" that was already covered by law....it's what lawyers do...and in the process it's hard for anyone to escape committing serial felonies on a day to day basis that are the unintended consequences of not prosecuting old law that has been replaced or enhanced with new law.
Link Posted: 3/15/2014 9:01:01 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gravitas73:

It is being pushed by liberals to overturn Citizen's United so people like the Koch's can't usurp our democratic process with unlimited money. Republicans should also be in favor of it so people like Soros can't do the same.
View Quote


The Koch brothers rank dead last in money lobbying. Democrats aren't going to do a thing to their lobbying money.
Link Posted: 3/15/2014 11:24:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By DooMsDaYRangeR:


The Koch brothers rank dead last in money lobbying. Democrats aren't going to do a thing to their lobbying money.
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Originally Posted By DooMsDaYRangeR:
Originally Posted By gravitas73:

It is being pushed by liberals to overturn Citizen's United so people like the Koch's can't usurp our democratic process with unlimited money. Republicans should also be in favor of it so people like Soros can't do the same.


The Koch brothers rank dead last in money lobbying. Democrats aren't going to do a thing to their lobbying money.


That's interesting then since its the democrats that are trying to overturn Citizen's United here.. you'd think if their money was so much greater than Koch money given to Republicans, it would be the Republicans wanting to overturn Citizen's United. Think.
Link Posted: 3/21/2014 4:56:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2014 4:57:42 PM EDT by Dave_A]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gravitas73:



Wait what....??





Are you aware that most of the Republican states are very small in population compared to Democratic states?





A Constitutional Convention actually favors Republicans because each state, regardless of size, gets one vote.





It would be like doing an electoral college where California didn't get 54 votes and North Dakota and Wyoming get 3... but instead everyone gets one vote.





It is actually your only chance to get Amendments like sanctity of marriage, fetus rights, and a balanced budget passed... because it will never happen in Congress.





It is being pushed by liberals to overturn Citizen's United so people like the Koch's can't usurp our democratic process with unlimited money. Republicans should also be in favor of it so people like Soros can't do the same.





And a slight correction, but the rights bestowed upon you in the Constitution do not come from God. Ask any black man if he thinks God had a hand in writing the Constitution by counting 3/5's of his ancestors.





But with 70% of the country being Christian anyways, maybe you can for once make an Amendment declaring us to once and for all, be a Christian Nation.
View Quote



A Con-Con throws the entire baby out with the bathwater...





Just like the first one (bye-bye horribly flawed Articles of Confederation, hello functional Constitutional Republic)...





We could come out of it with a Parliament & prime minister, a king, whatever - so long as the states would ratify it (Yes, this is sarcasm/agumentum-ad-absurdum - but it's to make a point)...





I, for one, have ZERO confidence that a Constitutional Convention would produce an even slightly recognizable government - let alone one that would be more conservative, able to pay it's debts, able to maintain the Dollar as world-reserve-currency, or able to do anything other than put us in to an Europe-style death-spiral...





BAD, BAD JU-JU....





 
Link Posted: 4/3/2014 7:20:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

A Con-Con throws the entire baby out with the bathwater...

Just like the first one (bye-bye horribly flawed Articles of Confederation, hello functional Constitutional Republic)...

We could come out of it with a Parliament & prime minister, a king, whatever - so long as the states would ratify it (Yes, this is sarcasm/agumentum-ad-absurdum - but it's to make a point)...

I, for one, have ZERO confidence that a Constitutional Convention would produce an even slightly recognizable government - let alone one that would be more conservative, able to pay it's debts, able to maintain the Dollar as world-reserve-currency, or able to do anything other than put us in to an Europe-style death-spiral...

BAD, BAD JU-JU....
 
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Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By gravitas73:
Wait what....??

Are you aware that most of the Republican states are very small in population compared to Democratic states?

A Constitutional Convention actually favors Republicans because each state, regardless of size, gets one vote.

It would be like doing an electoral college where California didn't get 54 votes and North Dakota and Wyoming get 3... but instead everyone gets one vote.

It is actually your only chance to get Amendments like sanctity of marriage, fetus rights, and a balanced budget passed... because it will never happen in Congress.

It is being pushed by liberals to overturn Citizen's United so people like the Koch's can't usurp our democratic process with unlimited money. Republicans should also be in favor of it so people like Soros can't do the same.

And a slight correction, but the rights bestowed upon you in the Constitution do not come from God. Ask any black man if he thinks God had a hand in writing the Constitution by counting 3/5's of his ancestors.

But with 70% of the country being Christian anyways, maybe you can for once make an Amendment declaring us to once and for all, be a Christian Nation.

A Con-Con throws the entire baby out with the bathwater...

Just like the first one (bye-bye horribly flawed Articles of Confederation, hello functional Constitutional Republic)...

We could come out of it with a Parliament & prime minister, a king, whatever - so long as the states would ratify it (Yes, this is sarcasm/agumentum-ad-absurdum - but it's to make a point)...

I, for one, have ZERO confidence that a Constitutional Convention would produce an even slightly recognizable government - let alone one that would be more conservative, able to pay it's debts, able to maintain the Dollar as world-reserve-currency, or able to do anything other than put us in to an Europe-style death-spiral...

BAD, BAD JU-JU....
 


So, yesterday happened, and the Koch's and Adelson's and McCutcheon's and Soros', and all of the special interests and politicians they support, won in a 5-4 Supreme Court decision, despite the fact that Scalia and Thomas like to hang out with the Kochs and didn't feel the need to recuse themselves, but anyways..

I think this will end up being a major element in the next presidential election. Democrats are calling it their number one priority to get money out of politics.

I also think Republicans will have a hard time selling it to the American people that we should be more concerned about the "freedom" for the uber wealthy to hijack our political process, rather than the harm that comes crashing down on us when those wealthy get their political agendas pushed through Congress by their bought and paid for puppets.

The Kochs want the oil industry deregulated and EPA abolished so they can maximize profit at the expense of the public and environmental health around their factories and refineries, while lowering their tax liability by billions of dollars that they inherited from daddy's oil empire. (A bit of trivia, but as Fred Koch's oil business started, it was the established oil barons and the government they controlled at the time that forced the entrepreneur Fred Koch to take his product overseas and sell to both sides of the war in WW2.)

The "kids" have even more sinister political agendas as well, but the point is, when people like them can single handedly pick who we have the option of voting for, our democratic process is dead. It's almost like their entire goal is to intentionally undermine our democracy as much as possible so that we will embrace an anarcho-capitalist fantasy they adore even more than being mere plutocrat puppet masters.

So to respond to the quoted response above, I have one question. If 3/4's of the States of this country can actually agree something should be in the Constitution, how can you argue against that?

I am a big advocate of gun rights and I am not afraid at all that 3/4's of the states in this country would agree to abolish the 2nd so I am not sure what you are afraid would come from a Con-Con that would make matters WORSE than they already are?

I could see a greater chance that a balanced budget Amendment could be passed by the states since state legislatures by their nature are typically more fiscally responsible than the federal government who can print as much money as they can get away with.

Otherwise, with as divided as the country is on so many issues already, and the apparent lack of compromise in our elected leaders to work together, maybe it is best the two ideologies can split into their own sovereign countries. If both believe their values are best, then they should have the better society. Blue states can make a country to give entitlements and pay for it with high taxes, and red states can make another Confederation, and providing that we can maybe learn from our history and not repeat it by killing each other again, we can find out who is right and stand the test of time.

For myself, I'd first rather give the states a chance at fixing the country, peacefully and in tact, since the three branches of the federal government have already failed repeatedly for decades.

I happen to think getting money out of politics is a part of that solution.
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