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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 5/4/2004 11:50:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 11:52:23 AM EDT by Tactical_Jew]
NYC Transit: Bags May Be Terror Test Runs


NEW YORK (AP) - A transit system security memo warned that five suspicious bags left at spots around the city within one week could be a test run for terrorist bombings.

The memo, issued by a security unit of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, asked security patrols to report any similar findings of unattended bags. The alert was first reported Sunday by The New York Post.


The city has remained at its maximum security level since the 2001 World Trade Center attack, and the March train bombings in Spain led to further jitters. At Grand Central Terminal, a hub for subway and commuter trains, recorded announcements routinely remind riders that unattended bags will be confiscated and searched.

``In this day and age, you can't take any chances,'' MTA spokesman Tom Kelly said Monday, stressing that the memo was issued as a precaution.


FBI spokesman Jim Margolin said some of the bags were empty and others had non-threatening contents; it appeared at least one of the bags belonged to a homeless person, he said Monday.


The bags were discovered over about a week in late March and early April, said Kelly. They included an empty, beat-up suitcase found in the main waiting room of Penn Station, and another empty bag discovered the same day near a federal building that houses the FBI's New York office.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 11:53:35 AM EDT
I dont get it. They had to test run leaving bags laying around? What would that achieve other than to give away "the plan?"
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 11:56:14 AM EDT
This was discussed earlier.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 11:56:28 AM EDT
See where they get found and where they don't. If you are going to be a suicide bomber it doesn't matter if they get found or not. But if you want to be successful and NOT a martyr, security reactions is of interest.

Or another possibility is a news organization live testing for an expository story, and the effort flooped when the bags were found.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 11:56:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
I dont get it. They had to test run leaving bags laying around? What would that achieve other than to give away "the plan?"



Sounds pretty stupid to me. What type of retarded terrorist needs to 'pratice' dropping a bag on the ground and walking away???
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 11:57:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
I dont get it. They had to test run leaving bags laying around? What would that achieve other than to give away "the plan?"


They now know where the bags will be found. Thus, they know where not to place the real bombs (if indeed this is a test).

Hoppy8420
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:01:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
See where they get found and where they don't. If you are going to be a suicide bomber it doesn't matter if they get found or not. But if you want to be successful and NOT a martyr, security reactions is of interest.



But if you are going to place a bomb in a crowded area to indiscriminately kill innocents, why not just drop the real thing and see how many you get?

Unless you're targeting a specific person or group of person, I don't see what good a practice run does. You just put yourself in danger of getting caught on tape or IDed by a bystander.

Maybe I'm completely wrong here, since I don't know the way a terrorist's mind works.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:02:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
I dont get it. They had to test run leaving bags laying around? What would that achieve other than to give away "the plan?"

The bags aren't the plan. They are diversions for the plan aka bait.
The bags would get emergency personnel all riled up and clustered up, as well as a crowd gathered watching. The crowd and clustered personnel would be a nice big target.
That kind of shit scares the hell out of me. This has been done many times before. One emergency attracts workers and onlookers, then a second emergency makes casualties out of a whole bunch of people.
Bad. Very bad.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:05:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoppy8420:
They now know where the bags will be found. Thus, they know where not to place the real bombs (if indeed this is a test).

Hoppy8420



Again, unless they're targeting a specific person, they have all the time in the world. They drop the bomb whenever they like, catch a cab and they're out of the area in a matter of minutes (assuming they don't get stuck in traffic). Set the timer/fuse/whatever for a short delay, that way you don't have to worry about the bag being found.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:09:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
See where they get found and where they don't. If you are going to be a suicide bomber it doesn't matter if they get found or not. But if you want to be successful and NOT a martyr, security reactions is of interest.



But if you are going to place a bomb in a crowded area to indiscriminately kill innocents, why not just drop the real thing and see how many you get?

Unless you're targeting a specific person or group of person, I don't see what good a practice run does. You just put yourself in danger of getting caught on tape or IDed by a bystander.

Maybe I'm completely wrong here, since I don't know the way a terrorist's mind works.

Remember that part of the goal of terrorists is to disrupt normal operations as much as possible. As is exceedingly obvious to me, all you have to do is SUGGEST a threat and you force a response. Then you discover where the emergency gathering areas are. Where everybody is standing around, impatient to get back to work. Making a big soft target.
The disruption that threats cause are getting so bad that business is having to make the choice to NOT evacuate a building unless it is a specific threat. The general threats are so commonplace that all somebody has to do to make a site lose hours of work and millions of dollars is make a phone call.
Remember that the first time you hear that a bomb went off and killed a bunch of people, DESPITE the fact that a general threat was phoned in an hour before the explosion. Terrorism is expensive.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:17:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Remember that part of the goal of terrorists is to disrupt normal operations as much as possible. As is exceedingly obvious to me, all you have to do is SUGGEST a threat and you force a response. Then you discover where the emergency gathering areas are. Where everybody is standing around, impatient to get back to work. Making a big soft target.
The disruption that threats cause are getting so bad that business is having to make the choice to NOT evacuate a building unless it is a specific threat. The general threats are so commonplace that all somebody has to do to make a site lose hours of work and millions of dollars is make a phone call.
Remember that the first time you hear that a bomb went off and killed a bunch of people, DESPITE the fact that a general threat was phoned in an hour before the explosion. Terrorism is expensive.



That makes sense, I guess I'd make a horrible terrorist.

I would think that you'd cause just as much confusion, panic, etc. by hitting multiple smaller targets with more frequency instead of going for the 'big one' every couple years. Murphy's law and all, the more complicated and intricate your plan, the more likely it will fail. Unfortunately 9/11 did not fall victim to Murphy's law...

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:17:35 PM EDT
I just dont see them doing test runs of this. If its to test it as a diversion, the authorities now know to go high alert if bags are found.

Not their style at all.

Im more inclined to believe it was some retarded teenagers being jackasses.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:28:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Remember that part of the goal of terrorists is to disrupt normal operations as much as possible. As is exceedingly obvious to me, all you have to do is SUGGEST a threat and you force a response. Then you discover where the emergency gathering areas are. Where everybody is standing around, impatient to get back to work. Making a big soft target.
The disruption that threats cause are getting so bad that business is having to make the choice to NOT evacuate a building unless it is a specific threat. The general threats are so commonplace that all somebody has to do to make a site lose hours of work and millions of dollars is make a phone call.
Remember that the first time you hear that a bomb went off and killed a bunch of people, DESPITE the fact that a general threat was phoned in an hour before the explosion. Terrorism is expensive.



That makes sense, I guess I'd make a horrible terrorist.

I would think that you'd cause just as much confusion, panic, etc. by hitting multiple smaller targets with more frequency instead of going for the 'big one' every couple years. Murphy's law and all, the more complicated and intricate your plan, the more likely it will fail. Unfortunately 9/11 did not fall victim to Murphy's law...


What's their plan? They simply want to cause the maximum amount of disruption possible and cost as many agencies and businesses as much money as possible. Even if the response from business and emergency personnel is effective enough to prevent ANY loss of life, they STILL have cost a lot of people a LOT of money.

If you design a plan with 20 levels of disruption, which range from simply making people come and sniff around and check out the scene to killing 3000 people, but the deadly facet of your plan is neutralized, then you still have caused a public safety response and effected an evacuation.

The only way a plan could fail totally is if NOBODY paid attention to a mere threat which doesn't have a dealy plan behind it.

If nobody pays attention to a mere threat which has a deadly plan behind it, then it still succeeds when the deadly plan goes off as planned and a lot of people die.

Simply put? No matter what, the terrorists WILL succeed to some degree.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:44:20 PM EDT
[Imbroglio]They were placed by the RNC.[/Imbroglio]
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 12:49:27 PM EDT
Or another possibility is a news organization live testing for an expository story, and the effort flooped when the bags were found.

Remember guys this is "sweeps" month for ratings for all the TV stations in the country. I wouldn't put it past a TV crew to try something like this to "test" .gov's response.

If it ain't the TV folks though I wonder where the 5 bags are that they didn't find.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:31:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
I dont get it. They had to test run leaving bags laying around? What would that achieve other than to give away "the plan?"



By implementing a dry run of this nature, they are possibly testing the security and how observant people are. If this is the type of testing they are using to probe security, it is not original.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:53:37 PM EDT
Keep leaving bags laying around, do it enough times and people start to think about the boy who cried wolf. You may not worry about the next one.
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