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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 1/24/2002 5:01:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/24/2002 5:09:29 PM EST by 1GUNRUNNER]
Wondering what the breakdown of movie viewers that saw it was. Military or former and non military. 1989 U.S. planes shoot down two Libyan fighters over international waters in Mediterranean (Jan. 4). Emperor Hirohito of Japan dead at 87 (Jan. 7). George Herbert Walker Bush inaugurated as 41st U.S. president (Jan. 20). Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini declares author Salman Rushdie's book The Satanic Verses offensive and sentences him to death (Feb. 14). Ruptured tanker Exxon Valdez sends 11 million gallons of crude oil into Alaska's Prince William Sound (March 24). Tens of thousands of Chinese students take over Beijing's Tiananmen Square in rally for democracy (April 19 et seq.). U.S. jury convicts Oliver North in Iran-Contra affair (May 4). More than one million in Beijing demonstrate for democracy; chaos spreads across nation (mid-May et seq.). Mikhail S. Gorbachev named Soviet president (May 25). Thousands killed in Tiananmen Square as Chinese leaders take hard line toward demonstrators (June 4 et seq.).1gunrunner graduates, Army general Colin R. Powell is first black chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff (Aug. 9). P. W. Botha quits as South Africa's president (Aug. 14). Voyager 2 spacecraft speeds by Neptune after making startling discoveries about the planet and its moons (Aug. 29). Deng Xiaoping resigns from China's leadership (Nov. 9). After 28 years, Berlin Wall is open to West (Nov. 11). Czech Parliament ends Communists' dominant role (Nov. 30). Romanian uprising overthrows Communist government (Dec. 15 et seq.); President Ceausescu and wife executed (Dec. 25). U.S. troops invade Panama, seeking capture of Gen. Manuel Noriega (Dec. 20); resistance to U.S. collapses (Dec. 24). Dalai Lama wins Nobel Peace Prize.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:09:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:20:31 PM EST
I've seen it twice, once with a fellow ex-mil and once with a never-mil. I got choked up almost to tears both times. "Tell my parents I fought hard" THAT is a warrior.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:44:03 PM EST
I saw it this past Sunday and it really moved me. I was totally amped up and my legs shook the whole two and a half hours. It really hit home hard dut to the fact that A. Im part of the green machine B. It was a real campaign and most importantly!! C. A good friend of mine served proud on that bloody day and made it home churning and burning the Mogadishu Mile. The movie does our boys justice and sheds the light on what happened in that miserable place and why. BHD - That trash was fucking good to hook!!! Semper-Fi Do or Die, 03 out!! [sniper]
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 5:57:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By FMJunkie: "Tell my parents I fought hard"
View Quote
That almost got me also. That's what I would want my folks to know too.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:19:49 PM EST
Saw it opening weekend with the wife. Read the book over the past couple of nights. Saw it again today with a buddy. I will say that this may go down as one of, if not THE, best combat flick ever!
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 6:39:00 PM EST
Two times. So far. I never thought I could possibly hate Clinton more than I did before I saw this movie. I was wrong. He should be forced to sit in a theater and watch this movie with the families of those dead Soldiers. Damn him to hell for not giving them the equipment to do the job right.
Link Posted: 1/24/2002 11:04:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 2:05:23 AM EST
Check this out! ************ OnLine Journal January 3, 2002 "Black Hawk Down" Hollywood drags bloody corpse of truth across movie screens By Larry Chin True to its post-9/11 government-sanctioned role as US war propaganda headquarters, Hollywood has released "Black Hawk Down," a fictionalized account of the tragic 1993 US raid in Somalia. The Pentagon assisted with the production, pleased for an opportunity to "set the record straight." The film is a lie that compounds the original lie that was the operation itself. Somalia: the facts According to the myth, the Somalia operation of 1993 was a humanitarian mission, and a shining example of New World Order morality and altruism. In fact, US and UN troops waged an undeclared war against an Islamic African populace that was hostile to foreign interests. Also contrary to the legend, the 1993 Somalia raid was not a "Clinton foreign policy bungle." In fact, the incoming Clinton administration inherited an operation that was already in full swing -- planned and begun by outgoing President George Herbert Walker Bush, spearheaded by deputy national security adviser Jonathan Howe (who remained in charge of the UN operation after Clinton took office), and approved by Colin Powell, then head of the Joint Chiefs. The operation had nothing to do with humanitarianism or Africa-love on the part of Bush or Clinton. Several US oil companies, including Conoco, Amoco, Chevron and Phillips were positioned to exploit Somalia's rich oil reserves. The companies had secured billion-dollar concessions to explore and drill large portions of the Somali countryside during the reign of pro-US President Mohamed Siad Barre. (In fact, Conoco's Mogadishu office housed the US embassy and military headquarters.) A "secure" Somalia also provided the West with strategic location on the coast of Arabian Sea. UN military became necessary when Barre was overthrown by warlord Mohammed Farrah Aidid, suddenly rendering Somalia inhospitable to US corporate interests. Although the pretext for the mission was to safeguard food shipments, and stop the "evil Aidid" from stealing the food, the true UN goal was to remove Aidid from the political equation, and form a pro-Western coalition government out of the nation's warring clans. The US operation was met with "surprisingly fierce resistance" -- surprising to US officials who underestimated Somalian resolve, and even more surprising to US troops who were victims and pawns of UN policy makers. The highly documented series by Mark Bowden of the Philadelphia Inquirer on which the film is based, focuses on the participants, and the "untenable" situation in which troops were placed. But even Bowden's gung-ho account makes no bones about provocative American attacks that ultimately led to the decisive defeat in Mogadishu. [i](more)[/i]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 2:08:14 AM EST
[i](continue)[/i] Bowden writes: "Task Force Ranger was not in Mogadishu to feed the hungry. Over six weeks, from late August to Oct. 3, it conducted six missions, raiding locations where either Aidid or his lieutenants were believed to be meeting. The mission that resulted in the Battle of Mogadishu came less than three months after a surprise missile attack by U.S. helicopters (acting on behalf of the UN) on a meeting of Aidid clansmen. Prompted by a Somalian ambush on June 5 that killed more than 20 Pakistani soldiers, the missile attack killed 50 to 70 clan elders and intellectuals, many of them moderates seeking to reach a peaceful settlement with the United Nations. After that July 12 helicopter attack, Aidid's clan was officially at war with America -- a fact many Americans never realized." Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Somalis were killed in the course of US incursions that took place over three months. In his book The New Military Humanism, Noam Chomsky cites other under-reported facts. "In October 1993, criminal incompetence by the US military led to the slaughter of 1,000 Somalis by American firepower." Chomsky writes. "The official estimate was 6-10,000 Somali casualties in the summer of 1993 alone, two-thirds women and children. Marine Lt. Gen. Anthony Zinni, who commanded the operation, informed the press that 'I'm not counting bodies . . . I'm not interested.' Specific war crimes of US forces included direct military attacks on a hospital and on civilian gatherings. Other Western armies were implicated in serious crimes as well. Some of these were revealed at an official Canadian inquiry, not duplicated by the US or other governments." Bowden's more forgiving account does not contradict Chomsky's in this regard: "Official U.S. estimates of Somalian casualties at the time numbered 350 dead and 500 injured. Somalian clan leaders made claims of more than 1,000 deaths. The United Nations placed the number of dead at "between 300 to 500." Doctors and intellectuals in Mogadishu not aligned with the feuding clans say that 500 dead is probably accurate. [i](more)[/i]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 2:11:44 AM EST
[i](continue)[/i] The attack on Mogadishu was particularly vicious. Quoting Bowden: "The Task Force Ranger commander, Maj. Gen. William F. Garrison, testifying before the Senate, said that if his men had put any more ammunition into the city 'we would have sunk it.' Most soldiers interviewed said that through most of the fight they fired on crowds and eventually at anyone and anything they saw." After 18 US Special Forces soldiers were killed in the final Mogadishu firefight, which included the downing of a US helicopter, television screens filled with the scene of a dead US soldier being dragged through the streets by jubilant Somalis. Clinton immediately called off the operation. US forces left Somalia in disgrace. Some 19,000 UN troops remained for a short period, but eventually left in futility. The Somalia defeat elicited howls of protest and rage from the military brass, congressional hawks, and right-wing provocateurs itching for an excuse to declare political war on the "liberal" Clinton administration. The "Somalia syndrome" would dog Clinton throughout his presidency, and mar every military mission during his tenure. Today, as right-wing extremist George W. Bush occupies the White House, surrounded by his father's operatives, and many of the architects of the original raid, military fanaticism is all the rage. A global war "without end" has just begun. What a perfect moment to "clean up" the past. Hollywood to the rescue In promoting the film, producer Jerry Bruckheimer (who rewrote another humiliating episode of US military history with "Pearl Harbor") is seeking to convince Americans that the Somalia operation was "not America's darkest hour, but America's brightest hour;" that a bungled imperialist intervention was a noble incident of grand moral magnificence. CNN film reviewer Paul Tatara describes "Black Hawk Down" as "pound for pound, one of the most violent films ever released by a major studio," from "two of the most pandering, tactless filmmakers in Hollywood history (Jerry Bruckheimer and Ridley Scott)" who are attempting to "teach us about honor among soldiers." [i](more)[/i]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 2:12:40 AM EST
[i](continue)[/i] More important are the film's true subtexts, and the likely emotional reaction of viewers. What viewers see is "brave and innocent young American boys" getting shot at and killed for "no reason" by "crazy black Islamists" that the Americans are "just trying to help." Subtext one: America is good, and it is impossible to understand why "they hate us." Subtext two: "Those damned ungrateful foreigners." Subtext three: "Those damned blacks." Subtext four: "Kill Arabs." What viewers will remember is a line spoken by one of the "brave soldiers" about how, in the heat of combat, "politics goes out the window." Subtext one: there is no need for thought; shoot first, talk later. Subtext two: it is right to abandon one's sanity, morality and ethics when faced with chaos. Subtext three: when the Twin Towers went down on 9/11, America was right in embracing radical militarism and extreme violence, throwing all else "out the window." [i](more)[/i]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 2:13:55 AM EST
[i](continue)[/i] In the currently lethal political climate, in which testosterone rage, mob mentality, and love of war pass for normal behavior (while reason, critical thinking, and tolerance are considered treasonous), "Black Hawk Down" will appeal to the most violent elements of American society. Many who have seen the film report leaving the theater feeling angry, itching to "kick some ass." In short, the film is dangerous. And those who "love" it are dangerous. Considering the fact that Somalia is one of the targets in the next phase of the Bush administration's "war on terrorism," the timing of the film is no coincidence. As Herbert London of the Hudson Institute said of "Black Hawk Down," "I would never deny the importance of heroism in battle, but just as we should recognize and honor heroes, we should also respect the truthfulness of the events surrounding their heroic acts. In the case of 'Black Hawk Down,' we get a lot of the former and almost nothing of the latter." ******************************************* [i](THE END)[/i]
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:22:31 AM EST
Ha!! I made it 50-50 with my vote.
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 5:56:06 AM EST
I saw it last night as I don't wade through the "first to see it crowd" and this film deserved more respect than that. With that said, there was only one other person in the theater. I didn't come dressed in my BDU's, they are hanging in my closet and there they will stay. I didn't draw any attention to the fact I served. No one but God should know. What I remember from that time was an overwheming push from the leftist controlled media to send aid to Somalia and the contention that we wouldn't because unlike Kuwait, there was no "big oil interests". This snide attitude forced Bush 41 into action. I don't buy any of that "new world order" bs nor was there any push by oil interests. The failure of the mission rightly deserves to fall under Clinton responsibility. While Bush 41 did indeed send our forces into that country, Clinton felt it was his responsibility to control all attacks : his method was through the controled resupply of men and materiel. Clinton was fighting his own agenda; providance of light armor and Air Force support would simply escalate the conflict and function as a roadblock to his domestic agenda. The real truth, that is the identification of the person or persons who refused to authorize the equipment requested by General Garrison, should be known. I salute the soldiers who took part in this battle. I curse the politics that send such fine men into battle, hoping to limit the outcome by limiting the input. Limited warfare is suicide for the party that embraces it. Limited warfare is what Patton meant by "letting the other bastard die for his country"
Link Posted: 1/25/2002 7:35:38 AM EST
This is what i posted on a another foru, While i was waiting for the movie to get to me..i took the time to read the book again. I don´t know if it made the movie worse or not, but i had now the situations clearly in mind to spot where they differed in the movie. I can understand why the former TFR vets have seen parts of the movie as doing unjustice for some men(ie. the Yurek, Twombly and Nelson parts). But in general the movie showed a lot fore even those who had not read the book, many things were explained(ie: The delay in radio traffic etc..) so the audience would understand better. There were many errors which i spotted, but i didn´t let them bother me for long, the movie just rolled on. Im not going to even start tell about what MSG Gordon and SFC Shughart did, there are no words in me to tell them correctly. I think at some point they must have figured, that the land convoy isnt going to arrive...like they say when the going gets tough, the tough get going and that is just what they did. Fighting till the last bullet for their friends in arms The death of Smith was hard to watch, i can imagine what it will be for those who served with him or to his family. I have never seen such a good display of military operation, tactics and bravery that is shown in this movie. One thing i´d like to add, how are people complaining in the negative reviews they couldn´t tell the actors apart even with the name tags, i watched the movie with a bad resolution and even worse sound and i can still name every guy in the movie. Hoo-ah Rest In Peace: CWO Cliff Wolcott CWO Donovan Briley Staff Sergeant Daniel Busch Staff Sergeant William Cleveland Staff Sergeant Thomas Field CWO Raymond Frank Sergeant Dominick Pilla Private First Class James Martin Corporal Jamie Smith Sergeant First Class Earl Fillmore Sergeant First Class Randy Shughart Master Sergeant Gary Gordon Sergeant Cornell Houston Sergeant Casey Joyce Spec. James Cavaco Private First Class Richard Kowalewski Sergeant Lorenzo Ruiz Master Sergeant Tim Martin And killed in a mortar attack two days after the operation.. Sergeant First Class Matt Rierson
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