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Posted: 8/23/2006 1:34:20 AM EDT
littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22204_BBC_Admits_Engaging_in_Staged_Photos&only

BBC Admits Engaging in Staged Photos
In this Lebanon report, the BBC (probably inadvertently) admits that they stood by and took photographs as Hizballah put a child’s life in danger: Dangers await Lebanon returnees. (Hat tip: USS Neverdock.)
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:38:54 AM EDT
[#1]
So he's standing by a dud… so?

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:42:10 AM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:
So he's standing by a dud… so?

ANdy


Think of it as a hangfire, but on a much larger scale.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:43:10 AM EDT
[#3]

Quoted:
So he's standing by a dud… so?

ANdy


You see no problem with posing a kid besides an unexploded bomb?
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:46:51 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So he's standing by a dud… so?

ANdy


You see no problem with posing a kid besides an unexploded bomb?


I saw news footage of Israeli kids looking at hizbollah katushkas sticking out the ground that were duds too…and?

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:51:45 AM EDT
[#5]

Israeli schoolkids writing on shells at an IDF front line artillery battery… live shells + kids in a war zone

That bomb that hit that house was probably not even armed or tore up the fuze as it punched through the concrete… it happens.

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 2:01:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Again, you need to consider them more a hangfire than a "dud". Dud gives the indication that the round can't or won't go off at all. In many cases you'll find that due to the slightly more complex nature of a bomb fuse they can and will go off unexpectedly. I personally know an individual who got his leg blown to hell earlier this year because the static generated from his shoes set off a "dud" fuse.
When you see pics of people screwing around with UXOs of their own volition, well that's what's called natural selection. When someone forces you to pose next to one for a damn photo op, that's called negligence.  --ST
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 2:08:23 AM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/060718_060724/060718_IsraelGirls_Wide.hlarge.jpg
Israeli schoolkids writing on shells at an IDF front line artillery battery… live shells + kids in a war zone

That bomb that hit that house was probably not even armed or tore up the fuze as it punched through the concrete… it happens.

ANdy


You realize the difference in safety between an unfired shell and one that's been fired and has slammed into the ground, right?
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 2:57:56 AM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/060718_060724/060718_IsraelGirls_Wide.hlarge.jpg
Israeli schoolkids writing on shells at an IDF front line artillery battery… live shells + kids in a war zone

That bomb that hit that house was probably not even armed or tore up the fuze as it punched through the concrete… it happens.

ANdy


You realize the difference in safety between an unfired shell and one that's been fired and has slammed into the ground, right?



Yes, and I certainly know that having children standing around hundreds of live 155mm shells on an artillery site within counter battery range of the opossing forces is hardly safe either…

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 3:08:29 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
Again, you need to consider them more a hangfire than a "dud". Dud gives the indication that the round can't or won't go off at all. In many cases you'll find that due to the slightly more complex nature of a bomb fuse they can and will go off unexpectedly. I personally know an individual who got his leg blown to hell earlier this year because the static generated from his shoes set off a "dud" fuse.
When you see pics of people screwing around with UXOs of their own volition, well that's what's called natural selection. When someone forces you to pose next to one for a damn photo op, that's called negligence.  --ST


My old man did EOD clearance duties for 20 odd years, and as he said, if you leave them alone they are safe enough. Now if the kid was SITTING or STANDING on the bomb I'd be agreeing with the post, but standing looking at it is no big deal.

Unxploded bombs turn up regularly enough over here courtesy of WWII, people go look at them while waiting for the EOD guys, it's no biggie, done it myself.

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 3:17:23 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:
My old man did EOD clearance duties for 20 odd years, and as he said, if you leave them alone they are safe enough. Now if the kid was SITTING or STANDING on the bomb I'd be agreeing with the post, but standing looking at it is no big deal.

Unxploded bombs turn up regularly enough over here courtesy of WWII, people go look at them while waiting for the EOD guys, it's no biggie, done it myself.

ANdy


Arright, quit sandbaggin' us-is he the chap on the left, or the right?

Link Posted: 8/23/2006 3:53:27 AM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
Yes, and I certainly know that having children standing around hundreds of live 155mm shells on an artillery site within counter battery range of the oposing forces is hardly safe either…

ANdy


When Israeli school children are on buses, they are within firing range....



Link Posted: 8/23/2006 3:58:50 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yes, and I certainly know that having children standing around hundreds of live 155mm shells on an artillery site within counter battery range of the oposing forces is hardly safe either…

ANdy


When Israeli school children are on buses, they are within firing range....

www.usefulwork.com/shark/bus180_110603ap.jpg



What's this got to do with NEWS PHOTOGRAPHERS on both sides photographing kids beside ordnance?

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:04:05 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
So he's standing by a dud… so?

ANdy


Sometimes all it takes is that last final movement for it to functions.  Some items with pezio- electric fuses are so sensitive that a change it temp or a shadow cast on the items can cause it to function.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:05:31 AM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/060718_060724/060718_IsraelGirls_Wide.hlarge.jpg
Israeli schoolkids writing on shells at an IDF front line artillery battery… live shells + kids in a war zone

That bomb that hit that house was probably not even armed or tore up the fuze as it punched through the concrete… it happens.

ANdy


Yes but they haven't been fired. Most ordnance needs to experience set-back and rotation (both of which occur once ifred) to function.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:06:54 AM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/060718_060724/060718_IsraelGirls_Wide.hlarge.jpg
Israeli schoolkids writing on shells at an IDF front line artillery battery… live shells + kids in a war zone

That bomb that hit that house was probably not even armed or tore up the fuze as it punched through the concrete… it happens.

ANdy


You realize the difference in safety between an unfired shell and one that's been fired and has slammed into the ground, right?



Yes, and I certainly know that having children standing around hundreds of live 155mm shells on an artillery site within counter battery range of the opossing forces is hardly safe either…

ANdy


Hezbolla has counter battery?
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:12:53 AM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Again, you need to consider them more a hangfire than a "dud". Dud gives the indication that the round can't or won't go off at all. In many cases you'll find that due to the slightly more complex nature of a bomb fuse they can and will go off unexpectedly. I personally know an individual who got his leg blown to hell earlier this year because the static generated from his shoes set off a "dud" fuse.
When you see pics of people screwing around with UXOs of their own volition, well that's what's called natural selection. When someone forces you to pose next to one for a damn photo op, that's called negligence.  --ST


My old man did EOD clearance duties for 20 odd years, and as he said, if you leave them alone they are safe enough. Now if the kid was SITTING or STANDING on the bomb I'd be agreeing with the post, but standing looking at it is no big deal.

Unxploded bombs turn up regularly enough over here courtesy of WWII, people go look at them while waiting for the EOD guys, it's no biggie, done it myself.

ANdy



Just because you did it doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:15:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:20:17 AM EDT
[#18]
I wonder if bomb disposal units would pose for photos around unexploded, fired artillery shells?  I also agree that having kids come sign shells in what would represent a military target is not real bright either.



Let me ask this.  Has one ever exploded on it's own hours after it landed?
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:24:55 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:
So he's standing by a dud… so?

ANdy
Unbelievable.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 5:41:06 AM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
I wonder if bomb disposal units would pose for photos around unexploded, fired artillery shells?  I also agree that having kids come sign shells in what would represent a military target is not real bright either.

Yes I have seen UXO / EOD pose for photos. They know the risk, they can ID the item  and determine the chances of it functioning.  A child can't




Let me ask this.  Has one ever exploded on it's own hours after it landed?

Yes.  It can happen after years. Usaully it invovles someone messing with it, kicking it, picking-it up, something hitting it.





Link Posted: 8/23/2006 7:25:12 AM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22204_BBC_Admits_Engaging_in_Staged_Photos&only

BBC Admits Engaging in Staged Photos
In this Lebanon report, the BBC (probably inadvertently) admits that they stood by and took photographs as Hizballah put a child’s life in danger: Dangers await Lebanon returnees. (Hat tip: USS Neverdock.)


I r confused  (not unusual) did the BBC stage the photo, as the headline suggests on that blog, or did they "just" not say anything when the kid walked up to the ordinance?



I think the latter fills the bill Flightless Fowl…

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 7:28:13 AM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Sections/Newsweek/Components/Photos/060718_060724/060718_IsraelGirls_Wide.hlarge.jpg
Israeli schoolkids writing on shells at an IDF front line artillery battery… live shells + kids in a war zone

That bomb that hit that house was probably not even armed or tore up the fuze as it punched through the concrete… it happens.

ANdy


Yes but they haven't been fired. Most ordnance needs to experience set-back and rotation (both of which occur once ifred) to function.



Yes they do, but all those neat bagged charges don't…

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 7:31:14 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wonder if bomb disposal units would pose for photos around unexploded, fired artillery shells?  I also agree that having kids come sign shells in what would represent a military target is not real bright either.

Yes I have seen UXO / EOD pose for photos. They know the risk, they can ID the item  and determine the chances of it functioning.  A child can't



The article says they are waiting for Hizbullah to take it away… I would bet it's already been policed up by one of their guys and declared safe.


Let me ask this.  Has one ever exploded on it's own hours after it landed?

Yes.  It can happen after years. Usaully it invovles someone messing with it, kicking it, picking-it up, something hitting it.

Which is exactly what that kid is not doing…they've lived with UXB's for many years in Lebanon and no the drill.





Link Posted: 8/23/2006 7:32:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 7:37:03 AM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22204_BBC_Admits_Engaging_in_Staged_Photos&only

BBC Admits Engaging in Staged Photos
In this Lebanon report, the BBC (probably inadvertently) admits that they stood by and took photographs as Hizballah put a child’s life in danger: Dangers await Lebanon returnees. (Hat tip: USS Neverdock.)


I r confused  (not unusual) did the BBC stage the photo, as the headline suggests on that blog, or did they "just" not say anything when the kid walked up to the ordinance?



I think the latter fills the bill Flightless Fowl…

ANdy



Sounds to me like somebody pushed the kid next to it for the photo.


The shell is huge, bigger than the young boy pushed forward to stand reluctantly next to it while we get our cameras out and record the scene for posterity.


Probably Hezbollah. If it went off, well, another kid they can claim the IDF killed.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 9:22:59 AM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22204_BBC_Admits_Engaging_in_Staged_Photos&only

BBC Admits Engaging in Staged Photos
In this Lebanon report, the BBC (probably inadvertently) admits that they stood by and took photographs as Hizballah put a child’s life in danger: Dangers await Lebanon returnees. (Hat tip: USS Neverdock.)


I r confused  (not unusual) did the BBC stage the photo, as the headline suggests on that blog, or did they "just" not say anything when the kid walked up to the ordinance?



I think the latter fills the bill Flightless Fowl…

ANdy


I guess my thought was since the photographer is presumably pretty close to the bomb also, a dumb photographer taking a picture of a kid walking up to a bomb isn't exactly the same thing as asking the kid to walk over next to the bomb ie doing nothing (or maybe not knowing that he should do anything) is not EXACTLY the same thing as taking an affirmative action to create the scene.

Kind of splitting hairs, I admit.

edit I guess "not warning" a kid is not the same thing as "posing" the kid as the blog seems to allege, even then you are assuming the photographer knew to the warn the kid, if he did he presumably enters the dangerous area himself to get the picture.

Again, kind of splitting hairs.



As you say, Blogs splittting hairs to make a story out of a non story,

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 9:25:26 AM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22204_BBC_Admits_Engaging_in_Staged_Photos&only

BBC Admits Engaging in Staged Photos
In this Lebanon report, the BBC (probably inadvertently) admits that they stood by and took photographs as Hizballah put a child’s life in danger: Dangers await Lebanon returnees. (Hat tip: USS Neverdock.)


I r confused  (not unusual) did the BBC stage the photo, as the headline suggests on that blog, or did they "just" not say anything when the kid walked up to the ordinance?



I think the latter fills the bill Flightless Fowl…

ANdy



Sounds to me like somebody pushed the kid next to it for the photo.

.



have to push my kids to get them to stand in family photos!

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 9:31:19 AM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So he's standing by a dud… so?

ANdy
Unbelievable.


Not really...
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 9:35:22 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:
I wonder if bomb disposal units would pose for photos around unexploded, fired artillery shells?  I also agree that having kids come sign shells in what would represent a military target is not real bright either.



Let me ask this.  Has one ever exploded on it's own hours after it landed?



Experience has shown that an Israeli military installation is statistically the safest place to be standing when terrorists fire rockets into Israel.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 9:37:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 9:41:08 AM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 9:44:29 AM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
I wonder if bomb disposal units would pose for photos around unexploded, fired artillery shells?  


Yes, no big deal as long as you don't piss them off.  I have several photos of dud ordnance that I took out on impact areas.

The exceptions would be ordnance that has a long time delay fuzing, influence fuzing, and of course chem/nuke.


Link Posted: 8/23/2006 9:50:22 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wonder if bomb disposal units would pose for photos around unexploded, fired artillery shells?  


Yes, no big deal as long as you don't piss them off.  I have several photos of dud ordnance that I took out on impact areas.

The exceptions would be ordnance that has a long time delay fuzing, influence fuzing, and of course chem/nuke.


Yea but you are not new agency supposedly reporting news when instead they are fabricating it... OK for you… unethical for the BBC.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:29:08 PM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:
When I was a kid in Belfast, we used to go to the cordons to watch the bombs go off.
It was something to do


Oh to be young...........



I used to watch the bombs too… got it wrong once.

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 1:32:25 PM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wonder if bomb disposal units would pose for photos around unexploded, fired artillery shells?  


Yes, no big deal as long as you don't piss them off.  I have several photos of dud ordnance that I took out on impact areas.

The exceptions would be ordnance that has a long time delay fuzing, influence fuzing, and of course chem/nuke.

members.cox.net/eodtech2000/EOD/ClusterBomb.JPG
members.cox.net/eodtech2000/EOD/Rockeye.JPG



So what are you saying here… that kid would have been in more danger crossing the road that just standing there looking at the bomb?

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 2:11:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Not trying top defend the ROP'rs

But...

Staging war photos has been going on since the American Civil War.
Many Civil War pics were staged.
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