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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/26/2006 10:45:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 10:49:25 AM EDT by ImplementOfWar]
CNN Article
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Authorities have found what they call the largest tunnel running into the United States along the U.S.-Mexican border.

About 2 tons of marijuana were inside the tunnel, the Drug Enforcement Administration said, indicating that it appears to have been used to transport drugs.

DEA and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents discovered the tunnel Wednesday night. It runs from Tijuana, Mexico, to Otay Mesa, California.

Officials said the tunnel is about seven-tenths of a mile (1,148 meters) or more than 1,200 yards long. Initial reports said it is 5 feet high and 3.5 feet wide.

Made of concrete, the passageway had lighting, electricity, ventilation and a pump to remove water, said Lauren Mack, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Most of the marijuana was uncovered on the Mexican side, but some of it was in the United States, Mack said.

"It's definitely expected to be related to a major drug cartel in Mexico," she said. No arrests have been made.

An investigation is under way to determine who helped build the passageway.

Mack said human intelligence led to the discovery of the underground structure. Agents then used ground-penetrating radar technology from the military to find anomalies in the soil, she said.

Earlier this month, U.S. border patrol agents investigating a caved-in road discovered another tunnel between Mexico and the United States, west of the San Ysidro, California, port of entry.

It was the third such tunnel found in three years near the San Ysidro port, Mack said. Others were discovered in 2003 and 2004, she said.

"We found trash and other evidence indicating people had been inside recently," Mack said in a phone interview January 11, describing the passage as "primitive."

Tightened border security since the September 11, 2001, attacks is the likely cause for the increase in the tunneling, Mack said.

At least 15 tunnels have been uncovered in California and Arizona since 9/11, she added.

"We've now got a dedicated tunnel task force, which works with the DEA and border patrol to proactively look for tunnels," Mack said.



What a joke border security is. How do we know that WMD's or terrorists arent being smuggled in through these tunnels(along with the drugs)?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:46:28 AM EDT
If your going to dig a tunnel that large, why only make it 5ft high?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:47:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:
About 2 tons of marijuana were inside the tunnel, the Drug Enforcement Administration said, indicating that it appears to have been used to transport drugs.


Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:51:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
If your going to dig a tunnel that large, why only make it 5ft high?



Mexicans are not that tall?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:57:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
If your going to dig a tunnel that large, why only make it 5ft high?



Maybe China is using the tunnel to smuggle sleepr operatives into our country for the coming invasion? It would explain the low ceiling
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 10:57:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 10:57:59 AM EDT by macman37]

What a joke border security is. How do we know that WMD's or terrorists arent being smuggled in through these tunnels(along with the drugs)?


What do you mean?

The wall everyone evidently wants wouldn't do any good against a tunnel! Jeeze. If they put a 20' wall up with a 10' anti-tunnel wall underground, and the coyotes were lobbing people over the wall with a big slingshot you'd complain about "what a joke border security is"...

Where there is a will, there is a way. People have broken out of maximum security prisons, too.

I am not saying that things are fine as they are, just don't buy into the hype.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:01:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

What a joke border security is. How do we know that WMD's or terrorists arent being smuggled in through these tunnels(along with the drugs)?


What do you mean?

The wall everyone evidently wants wouldn't do any good against a tunnel! Jeeze. If they put a 20' wall up with a 10' anti-tunnel wall underground, and the coyotes were lobbing people over the wall with a big slingshot you'd complain about "what a joke border security is"...

Where there is a will, there is a way. People have broken out of maximum security prisons, too.

I am not saying that things are fine as they are, just don't buy into the hype.



Periodic anti-tunnel explosions all along the border might help. Relocate our Army artillery ranges to a narrow strip just across the border, inside Mexico.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:02:01 AM EDT
Someone's having to build smuggling tunnels that Americnas simply won't build themselves.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:03:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 11:04:48 AM EDT by ImplementOfWar]

Originally Posted By macman37:

What a joke border security is. How do we know that WMD's or terrorists arent being smuggled in through these tunnels(along with the drugs)?


What do you mean?

The wall everyone evidently wants wouldn't do any good against a tunnel! Jeeze. If they put a 20' wall up with a 10' anti-tunnel wall underground, and the coyotes were lobbing people over the wall with a big slingshot you'd complain about "what a joke border security is"...

Where there is a will, there is a way. People have broken out of maximum security prisons, too.

I am not saying that things are fine as they are, just don't buy into the hype.



All of the tax money that goes into defense, I would expect our scientists could come up with a half decent earth penetrating radar to find all of these tunnels. And I would expect a little more attention to protecting the country (the border is an obvious place we want to invest defense in).

Which makes our border security useless because we dont have the right 'tools' and 'strategy' for the job.

And last I checked we didnt have a wall and a 10 foot deep anti tunnel barrier so it makes your point a little moot, I am not complaining about mexicans and drugs being slingshotted over the border.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:05:20 AM EDT
Isn't this like the 3rd or 4th tunnel they've found in the past year or so??

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:07:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:


Periodic anti-tunnel explosions all along the border might help. Relocate our Army artillery ranges to a narrow strip just across the border, inside Mexico.



Declare the border zone a test range for GBU-28 Bunker Busters.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:07:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 11:08:35 AM EDT by StrkAliteN]

Originally Posted By triburst1:
If your going to dig a tunnel that large, why only make it 5ft high?




Increasing the height by a mere 6"-1 foot would mean a 15-20% increase in labor / time and volume of earth material soil to dispose of.

Considering the length of the tunnel is approx 3/4 mile long, a rough estimate is approx an extra 10,000 dump trucks FULL of soil to dispose of.

edited for spelling
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:31:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:

All of the tax money that goes into defense, I would expect our scientists could come up with a half decent earth penetrating radar to find all of these tunnels. And I would expect a little more attention to protecting the country (the border is an obvious place we want to invest defense in).

Which makes our border security useless because we dont have the right 'tools' and 'strategy' for the job.

And last I checked we didnt have a wall and a 10 foot deep anti tunnel barrier so it makes your point a little moot, I am not complaining about mexicans and drugs being slingshotted over the border.



You make decent points. However, I was simply drawing an analogy about the wall.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:52:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

What a joke border security is. How do we know that WMD's or terrorists arent being smuggled in through these tunnels(along with the drugs)?


What do you mean?

The wall everyone evidently wants wouldn't do any good against a tunnel! Jeeze. If they put a 20' wall up with a 10' anti-tunnel wall underground, and the coyotes were lobbing people over the wall with a big slingshot you'd complain about "what a joke border security is"...

Where there is a will, there is a way. People have broken out of maximum security prisons, too.

I am not saying that things are fine as they are, just don't buy into the hype.



You haven't seen my wall. The footings are deeeeep.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 11:54:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
You make decent points. However, I was simply drawing an analogy about the wall.



Yeah and I was just saying your analogy was ridiculous and not really reasonable in the context of the article and my opinions.

Your analogy persuaded that I was complaining uneccesarily and ridiculously. Which was kind of a moronic statement.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 12:11:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 12:12:19 PM EDT by macman37]

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:

Originally Posted By macman37:
You make decent points. However, I was simply drawing an analogy about the wall.



Yeah and I was just saying your analogy was ridiculous and not really reasonable in the context of the article and my opinions.

Your analogy persuaded that I was complaining uneccesarily and ridiculously. Which was kind of a moronic statement.



Now that you mention it, it is kind of unnecessary.

Why?

Because no matter what you do, someone is going to sneak in. There is no totally secure border anywhere. Whether they fly a big kite over and drop someone off or simply step around it or forge documents and fly in on a commercial airliner... The border isn't going to be 100% secure. And to start banging around with a ground penetrating radar for that massive length of a border is going to be expensive. I'm sure you don't want your taxes to go up to pay for it, do you?

I also drew an analogy to people breaking out of prison. If people can break out of Alcatraz or some other Maximum Security prison, don't you think they can find a chink in the armor of a border the size of the one US and Mexico share?

Moronic statement? Nah. Just the truth. NO border is 100% secure. There are many things the US could do to shore up our border defenses- this I freely admit- but the tunnel was 7/10ths of a mile long! They could take a little more time, go twice as far underground and tunnel right under an armored brigade! (That was an example too - I'm not down for breaking Posse Comitatus, don't get your manties in a wad)
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 12:19:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Now that you mention it, it is kind of unnecessary.

Why?

Because no matter what you do, someone is going to sneak in. There is no totally secure border anywhere. Whether they fly a big kite over and drop someone off or simply step around it or forge documents and fly in on a commercial airliner... The border isn't going to be 100% secure. And to start banging around with a ground penetrating radar for that massive length of a border is going to be expensive. I'm sure you don't want your taxes to go up to pay for it, do you?

I also drew an analogy to people breaking out of prison. If people can break out of Alcatraz or some other Maximum Security prison, don't you think they can find a chink in the armor of a border the size of the one US and Mexico share?

Moronic statement? Nah. Just the truth. NO border is 100% secure. There are many things the US could do to shore up our border defenses- this I freely admit- but the tunnel was 7/10ths of a mile long! They could take a little more time, go twice as far underground and tunnel right under an armored brigade! (That was an example too - I'm not down for breaking Posse Comitatus, don't get your manties in a wad)




How would it be expensive to scan the border with a ground penetrating radar?

Oh you mean the country would get charged 100000X more then it would actually cost by greedy companies and corruption?

Your right, thats what our defense industry is like now. I agree with you. Screw the border and screw the country. There is no possible hope to fix the ethics in this country.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 12:26:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:

Originally Posted By macman37:
Now that you mention it, it is kind of unnecessary.

Why?

Because no matter what you do, someone is going to sneak in. There is no totally secure border anywhere. Whether they fly a big kite over and drop someone off or simply step around it or forge documents and fly in on a commercial airliner... The border isn't going to be 100% secure. And to start banging around with a ground penetrating radar for that massive length of a border is going to be expensive. I'm sure you don't want your taxes to go up to pay for it, do you?

I also drew an analogy to people breaking out of prison. If people can break out of Alcatraz or some other Maximum Security prison, don't you think they can find a chink in the armor of a border the size of the one US and Mexico share?

Moronic statement? Nah. Just the truth. NO border is 100% secure. There are many things the US could do to shore up our border defenses- this I freely admit- but the tunnel was 7/10ths of a mile long! They could take a little more time, go twice as far underground and tunnel right under an armored brigade! (That was an example too - I'm not down for breaking Posse Comitatus, don't get your manties in a wad)




How would it be expensive to scan the border with a ground penetrating radar?

Oh you mean the country would get charged 100000X more then it would actually cost by greedy companies and corruption?

Your right, thats what our defense industry is like now. I agree with you. Screw the border and screw the country. There is no possible hope to fix the ethics in this country.



Now you're doing what you accused me of doing.

For starters, how long is the border? How big are ground penetrating radars? How easy are they to fool (subterranean rock formations, etc.)?

Greedy corporations? "What our defense industry is like now?"

Call me when you have a point. Your debate skills are sorely lacking. Sayonara.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 12:29:39 PM EDT

Made of concrete, the passageway had lighting, electricity, ventilation and a pump to remove water,



Mack said in a phone interview January 11, describing the passage as "primitive."


Not exactly what I'd call primitive. I got money says the mexican military was heavily involved at most, or at the least got paid off to look the other way.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:00:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:

How would it be expensive to scan the border with a ground penetrating radar?



Because it would be very expensive to have to invent it first.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:01:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By imposter:

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:
About 2 tons of marijuana were inside the tunnel, the Drug Enforcement Administration said, indicating that it appears to have been used to transport drugs.







And the "Holy Logical Conclusions, Batman!" Award goes to....

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:06:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FITTER:

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:

How would it be expensive to scan the border with a ground penetrating radar?



Because it would be very expensive to have to invent it first.




I read a yahoo article today that said the tunnel was FOUND by ground penetrating radar..
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:09:12 PM EDT
Well, then it MUST be true.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:10:38 PM EDT
If there is one there are many more or will soon be built.

If POWs under constant guard can build multiple tunnels with lighting and ventilation, doing from Mexico to the US is not that hard of a feat with modern equipment and endless labor.

They need to explode some ordnance every so often cave in the tunnels.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:22:33 PM EDT
The only way to stop it is to end the pain and suffering that forces the illegals to some here. Yes, Mexico is a corrupt, racist society where the meztiso population (Native Americans) is constantly on the lowest rung of society. Here in the US, we give Native Americans special rights. In Mexico, they get nothing. Here Natives can open casinos, sell tax free tobacco and alcohol and live fat and rich if they want. In Mexico, they cannot do anything but farm.

You see, we need to invade and conquer Mexico, getting rid of its corrupt political machine that oppresses the Natives.

Unless we are willing to impose the same ill will to these illegal aliens that their home country is imposing on them, no wall will keep them out. Pain is the universal motivator and that is LIFE.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:23:18 PM EDT
Okay, so they found 15 tunnels since 9/11 so I wonder how many have not been found yet?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:27:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 2:28:23 PM EDT by C-4]
Gee, I wonder if ImplementOfWar is the same fucking troll from Rhode Island that got into a fight with his father and now has a domestic violence conviction that prevents him from ever buying firearms again. His adversarial writing style is the same. His hatred for .gov is still there.

1)What would cause you to become a domestic terrorist?

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=426354

2)Do we have an innaffective intelligence agency?

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=427872

3) How come the federal government regulates arms that are not related to interstate commerce?

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=427631

So tell us, ImplementOfWar, are you still having to defend yourself with harsh words. I don't usually gloat over someone losing their gun rights but for asshole trolls like you I make an exception.

We'd love to hear about what you and your father were arguing about that night?



Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:29:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 2:33:43 PM EDT by TequilaReseva1800]

Originally Posted By triburst1:
If your going to dig a tunnel that large, why only make it 5ft high?

Short Mexicans make short tunnels/child labor
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:29:50 PM EDT
So, if I read some of the posts correctly, this successful find is proof that the .gov is doing nothing??!?

The finding of this tunnel sounds like a good thing to me.

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:30:47 PM EDT
This sucks.

Max
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:35:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 2:37:38 PM EDT by Lord_Grey_Boots]

Originally Posted By FITTER:

Originally Posted By ImplementOfWar:

How would it be expensive to scan the border with a ground penetrating radar?



Because it would be very expensive to have to invent it first.




Um, Ground Penetrating radar has been around for years.

A quick google search shows they can reach up to 100 meters under ground, and vehicle mounted applications...

Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:37:07 PM EDT
but all the reports of the Border Situation are overblown


They're only digging the drug smggling tunnel Americans wont
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:40:57 PM EDT
And the oil industry has been using a variety of strata detection and plotting systems for years.

Variety of things, passive sound detection gear, active echo ranging looking for a pattern change. relatively simple systems could be used say around Otay Mesa (San Diego area) this just pushes them further in to the bad terrain, of course once you got up into the mountains the logistics challenges of tunneling becomes much greater. Otay Mesa area is probably just dirt, mountains east of there get a lot more rocky, plus you have to hide both the entrance and exit from detection, and the dirt going somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:45:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 2:53:55 PM EDT by Da_Bunny]
Ground Penetrating Radar

G-P-R.com


Depth of investigation varies from less than one meter in mineralogical clay soils like montmorillonite to more than 5,400 meters in polar ice. Depth of investigation increases with decreasing frequency but with decreasing resolution. Typical depths of investigation in fresh-water saturated, clay-free sands are about 30 meters.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:53:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
You see, we need to invade and conquer Mexico, getting rid of its corrupt political machine that oppresses the Natives.



AGAIN?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 2:54:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2006 2:56:26 PM EDT by Da_Bunny]

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
You see, we need to invade and conquer Mexico, getting rid of its corrupt political machine that oppresses the Natives.



AGAIN?



As in, take over. 20% of the population has fled the country, to the US, there is something very wrong down there.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:10:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
Gee, I wonder if ImplementOfWar is the same fucking troll from Rhode Island that got into a fight with his father and now has a domestic violence conviction that prevents him from ever buying firearms again. His adversarial writing style is the same. His hatred for .gov is still there.



I'm calling you out ImplementOfWar. Are you going to defend yourself or are you a coward?
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 5:51:46 PM EDT
We could stick those bright yellow plastic flowers in the ground along the border, they are supposed to scare away Moles and might work on illegals underground.
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