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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/1/2005 4:26:55 PM EDT
... I've got some questions about bass cabinets - here's a little background:


I recently traded up from a Peavey Mark III to a Mark VIII head, and have been using a Peavey 115 BX BW cabinet with a Black Widow in it for a top cabinet, and a Paradise Soundworks bottom cabinet loaded with a 15" ElectroVoice speaker... I really like the new head - LOTS of power, clean, and a balanced line out for the PA - only thing is, it doesn't seem to get the highs that the Mark III did(although I can EQ it in by really jacking up the upper EQ freqs) - so I'm planning on making it up with a little speaker adjustment... Ideally, I'd like to trade my bottom cabinet with the EV in it for another Peavey 115 BX BW, and add a Peavey 410 - but just can't swing that right now... I have a chance to swap my EV (speaker only) for a freshly built(and warranteed)Black Widow(speaker only) - and am leaning that way - but I'm pretty sure I want a 410, too... Here's the question:


In your experience, IF I trade the bottom cabinet(with the 15" EV) for a Peavey 410, will I loose some of the body shaking low end I'm getting now with two 15s??? I've had people tell me that the 410 will produce atleast as much bottom end as a 115(if not more), AND get better upper end response - is that true??? I'm playing in a band that plays mostly heavy stuff - Sabbath, Metallica, Godsmack, Tool, Helmut, etc... - I like a punchy, powerful low end sound that has very clear, crisp upper end as well - like the sound that Pantera or Korn's bass players get - to give you an idea of what I'm shooting for...


Sooo, what I guess I'm asking is - will a 115 and a 410 set-up get me where I want to go, or should I stick to (2) 15s for now - and swap out the EV speaker for a Black Widow(for added brightness), then add the 410 later on when I can afford it???


Eventually, I'm sure I want two 115 BX BWs, and two 410s - but I've gotta make some $$$ 1st...



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:32:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:33:11 PM EDT by djgolus]

Originally Posted By georgestrings:
... I've got some questions about bass cabinets - here's a little background:


I recently traded up from a Peavey Mark III to a Mark VIII head, and have been using a Peavey 115 BX BW cabinet with a Black Widow in it for a top cabinet, and a Paradise Soundworks bottom cabinet loaded with a 15" ElectroVoice speaker... I really like the new head - LOTS of power, clean, and a balanced line out for the PA - only thing is, it doesn't seem to get the highs that the Mark III did(although I can EQ it in by really jacking up the upper EQ freqs) - so I'm planning on making it up with a little speaker adjustment... Ideally, I'd like to trade my bottom cabinet with the EV in it for another Peavey 115 BX BW, and add a Peavey 410 - but just can't swing that right now... I have a chance to swap my EV (speaker only) for a freshly built(and warranteed)Black Widow(speaker only) - and am leaning that way - but I'm pretty sure I want a 410, too... Here's the question:


In your experience, IF I trade the bottom cabinet(with the 15" EV) for a Peavey 410, will I loose some of the body shaking low end I'm getting now with two 15s??? I've had people tell me that the 410 will produce atleast as much bottom end as a 115(if not more), AND get better upper end response - is that true??? I'm playing in a band that plays mostly heavy stuff - Sabbath, Metallica, Godsmack, Tool, Helmut, etc... - I like a punchy, powerful low end sound that has very clear, crisp upper end as well - like the sound that Pantera or Korn's bass players get - to give you an idea of what I'm shooting for...


Sooo, what I guess I'm asking is - will a 115 and a 410 set-up get me where I want to go, or should I stick to (2) 15s for now - and swap out the EV speaker for a Black Widow(for added brightness), then add the 410 later on when I can afford it???


Eventually, I'm sure I want two 115 BX BWs, and two 410s - but I've gotta make some $$$ 1st...



- georgestrings



My speaker cabinet are as follow: 1) 1985 Carvin 2x15 and 1) 1983 Carvin 4x12B. I get the earth shattering lows as well as the highs, but I agree, either get a 8x10 or 4x10/1x15 . Even if you were to trade your 1x15 for a 2x10 with a horn will give you a wider range. The only thing the 4x10 would be better for is a louder sound since there are more speakers. I drive my cabinets with a Marshall VBA 400 head. I personally prefer the 12" speakers, but the 15's I have a excellent sound too (the 2x15 cabinet is loaded with EV's too and the 4x12B cabinet is loaded with Peerless speakers).

Hope this helps.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:55:45 PM EDT
First of all, it's not usually a good idea to just swap speakers straight up, because each speaker is built with a specific box volume in mind, and having a cab that is too big or too small can leave you with a muddy sound, or a large lack of low end.

Now, Peavey cabs, especially the old 410tx's have a huge bottom end, I think the speakers have something like a 30hz minimum frequency, which is around what the low B on a 5 string produces.

The only problem I have with most Peavey cabs and heads is there lack of articulate high end, I've never played a Mark 8 head, but if you're not getting the high end you need that could be the problem. Another thing about Peavey cabs is that the horn and crossover aren't as well designed as their speakers are.

I run a Peavey 4x10tx on top of an Avatar 1x15 with an Eminence Neo speaker in it. The 4x10 has a crazy amount of punch to it, and the 1x15 puts out a lot of low end.

I shut the tweeter off on the 410 and run the attentuater about about 40% on the 1x15 and it gives me the little bit of high end I need to make my notes more defined. When I turn it up some more I get a good slapping and popping tone.

Now remember this, 4 10 inch speakers have more surface area than just 1 15 does so you'll get a small amount more volume, but it isn't very noticeable. Some 4x10 cabs have a better low end than 2x15 cabs! But it depends on so much that the only real way to tell is to A/B them in person. Different basses/amps/pickups/speakers and even cables can make a difference in lots of big ways.

One thing you might try is a compressor pedal or rack module, this should tighten up your low end and make your highs a little crisper, but that depends on the amp too.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:00:06 PM EDT
Thanks for the replys, gents - it is appreciated... The vibe I'm getting thus far is that I'd probably be better off trading the whole cab with the 15" EV in it for a 4-10, then later on adding another 115 BX BW - only problem with that strategy is that I'll probably take a bath on the deal - can't win 'em all...


"First of all, it's not usually a good idea to just swap speakers straight up, because each speaker is built with a specific box volume in mind, and having a cab that is too big or too small can leave you with a muddy sound, or a large lack of low end."


That makes sense - but my thinking was, the speaker swap would likely be even up, and would temporarily brighten me up a bit - then, when I get the cabinets of my choice(a 4-10 and two 1-15s), I could use the "swapped" 15" Black Widow for a spare 15, should I have a problem with one later on... I suppose I *could* try the 15" Black Widow I currently have in my Peavey cabinet, in the Paradise Soundworks cabinet, to see how it sounds before doing any "swapping"...

Things that make you go, hmmm....


Thanks again,



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:37:01 PM EDT
Look into these cabinets. I have ultimate praise and confidence in Carvin Stuff... I have a bass head and Wachuwan cabinets loaded with Carvin speakers... NICE!

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:27:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Look into these cabinets. I have ultimate praise and confidence in Carvin Stuff... I have a bass head and Wachuwan cabinets loaded with Carvin speakers... NICE!

www.carvin.com/images/thumb/RL1015.jpg




Sweet rig, Doc - I can't tell by looking at the pic, though - is that a 4-10 on top of a 1-15???



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:34:51 AM EDT
I've got a Peavey Firebass with the 410 and 115 cabs - that I use for rehersals now - have never been able to get the sound I really wanted out of it. I bought a Ampeg SVT3 Pro and SVT 810 cab and have never looked back!

The Peavey cabs are ported which give tons of lows but in some clubs, the lows were muddy and very difficult to control.

The Ampeg 810 is a non ported cab with plenty of bottom and lots of punch to cut thru the mix.

If I were you, I'd look at the Ampeg SVT410 to see if it would work in your application. Non ported like the 810, just half the size and weight!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:40:32 AM EDT
You may also want to consider a 2x12 cab as an option. I use a HArtke 3500 head through a Hartek 2200 cab (2x12 and one horn). I get all the highs I need and then some from the horn and the aluminum twelves plus enough bass to shake the roof down.

Aguilar, HArtke, and several others make nice and portable 2x12 cabs.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:47:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By daddy_steve:
I've got a Peavey Firebass with the 410 and 115 cabs - that I use for rehersals now - have never been able to get the sound I really wanted out of it. I bought a Ampeg SVT3 Pro and SVT 810 cab and have never looked back!

The Peavey cabs are ported which give tons of lows but in some clubs, the lows were muddy and very difficult to control.

The Ampeg 810 is a non ported cab with plenty of bottom and lots of punch to cut thru the mix.

If I were you, I'd look at the Ampeg SVT410 to see if it would work in your application. Non ported like the 810, just half the size and weight!



I run an Ampeg head (an Ampeg B-4R) into my cabs, the fact that the cabs are ported doesn't have that much to do with muddy-ness in certain clubs (unless they're rear ported and you set the ports close to a wall!) It's all about how you EQ your setup. Since bass isn't directional, it bounces off everything and sounds like it is coming from all around you. Sound waves bouncing off the back of the club mix with what is coming from your rig and it sounds mushy. However, when you fill the space in front of you with people, they soak up a lot of the sound that is bouncing back at you.

Sometimes when I run into this problem I either confer with the soundman on EQ settings, or I just run DI to the PA, pre-EQ, and let the sound guy deal with it and just use my rig for stage monitoring.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:49:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:53:28 AM EDT by Daytona955i]

Originally Posted By cyoung:
You may also want to consider a 2x12 cab as an option. I use a HArtke 3500 head through a Hartek 2200 cab (2x12 and one horn). I get all the highs I need and then some from the horn and the aluminum twelves plus enough bass to shake the roof down.

Aguilar, HArtke, and several others make nice and portable 2x12 cabs.



+1 on 2x12's, a pair of 12's, designed for bass, are a nice mix between punch and lows/highs, especially if the cab has a tweeter.

I think a 2x12 is the best option for a stand alone cab, but if you want more than one cab, a 10's and 15 mix is excellent too.

I personally don't like the sound of aluminum speakers, but they naturally do offer better highs and high mids (most of the time).

If you think you want new cabs, check out Avatar Speakers, they are the best value in new bass cabs out there. I own one of the new 15 neo cabs, and it sounds better than cabs that are twice it's price. (They can be found on Ebay sometimes for even less than on the website.)



Here's the Avatar with my Peavey 4x10 on top and my Ampeg on top of that. It's a bad quality picture.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:59:19 AM EDT
It's been a few years since I played, but I went through several setups.
2x15
4x12
2x15 with an 18and2x10
18 with 4 10s
2x15 with 4x10s

Settled with an 8x10 Ampeg setup... with an Ampeg head.
I was extremely pleased with that setup.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:59:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By georgestrings:

Originally Posted By DrFrige:
Look into these cabinets. I have ultimate praise and confidence in Carvin Stuff... I have a bass head and Wachuwan cabinets loaded with Carvin speakers... NICE!

www.carvin.com/images/thumb/RL1015.jpg




Sweet rig, Doc - I can't tell by looking at the pic, though - is that a 4-10 on top of a 1-15???



- georgestrings



Yes, that is a 4x10 on top of a 1-15.. Now that is NOT my rig...although I wish it were. I have a a Peavey Mark III on top of a 1-15

--and--

a Carvin head on top of two custom cabinets
Top Cabinet has 1-10" and 1-12"
Bottom Cabinet has 1-15"

Gives me the highs and lows that i need HOWEVER I sure like the SVT 810 cab that Daddy_Steve is talking about. My only gripe about it is a HEAVY MF'er to lug around but it pays off when you get it to its destination and get the sound you want.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:02:10 PM EDT
Here is Carvin's version of the ampeg:

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:12:33 PM EDT
Thanks for all the input, everyone - it just goes to show, that once again - the collective knowledge of ARFcom is a force to be reckoned with... I'm relatively sure I want to swap my bottom cab with the 15" EV in it, for a Peavey 410 - then eventually add another Peavey 115 BX BW - I just have to figure out how to do that without losing my ass in the deal - I'll probably try to sell the EV cab outright, then buy the 4-10 I want... On the bright side:


I played my set-up in band practice today for the 1st time since I got the Mark VIII head, and with EQ'ing I was able to get a sound that's workable - so it's not an absolute emergency that I do anything(speaker-wise) immediately... I'll bring the EV cab to a shop I do most of my dealing with, and if they'll take it and $50 for a Peavey 4-10, I'll go for it - if not, I'll put the EV cab in the local swapsheet and see if I can sell it outright... I'm pretty happy with the Mark VIII head - TONS of power that's clean, and plenty of EQ range - and the balanced line out will be nice when we start playing out - probably by month's end, BTW....


Thanks again,



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:23:50 PM EDT
"My only gripe about it is a HEAVY MF'er to lug around but it pays off when you get it to its destination and get the sound you want."


I know what you mean - I used to have a Combo 300 that I really liked, but weighed SO much it was a pain in the neck to move around.... I swear that was the heaviest combo amp I've ever seen - and without a doubt, it was the reason why I ended up with a head and 2 cabinets...



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:59:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 3:03:59 AM EDT by FourStringSlinger]

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:
First of all, it's not usually a good idea to just swap speakers straight up, because each speaker is built with a specific box volume in mind, and having a cab that is too big or too small can leave you with a muddy sound, or a large lack of low end.

Now, Peavey cabs, especially the old 410tx's have a huge bottom end, I think the speakers have something like a 30hz minimum frequency, which is around what the low B on a 5 string produces.

The only problem I have with most Peavey cabs and heads is there lack of articulate high end, I've never played a Mark 8 head, but if you're not getting the high end you need that could be the problem. Another thing about Peavey cabs is that the horn and crossover aren't as well designed as their speakers are.

I run a Peavey 4x10tx on top of an Avatar 1x15 with an Eminence Neo speaker in it. The 4x10 has a crazy amount of punch to it, and the 1x15 puts out a lot of low end.

I shut the tweeter off on the 410 and run the attentuater about about 40% on the 1x15 and it gives me the little bit of high end I need to make my notes more defined. When I turn it up some more I get a good slapping and popping tone.

Now remember this, 4 10 inch speakers have more surface area than just 1 15 does so you'll get a small amount more volume, but it isn't very noticeable. Some 4x10 cabs have a better low end than 2x15 cabs! But it depends on so much that the only real way to tell is to A/B them in person. Different basses/amps/pickups/speakers and even cables can make a difference in lots of big ways.

One thing you might try is a compressor pedal or rack module, this should tighten up your low end and make your highs a little crisper, but that depends on the amp too.



Agreed....Although I hate compression.

4x10+1x15 is a versatile setup and should get you where you want to be tone wise.

Some of my stuff:

Main rig, Mesa/Boogie 400+ with Korg tuner and Furman power conditioner, powering an Ampeg SVT 8x10:



Pedalboard:



Backup head, Ampeg SVT III pro with Korg tuner:



'92 Wal Mach II:



'77 Wal Pro 1e:



80's Spector:



Not pictured...'78 Fender P-bass with Rio Grande pickup.

Oh...and DrFrige, the 8x10 is the way for rock. There is no substitute...trust me, I have searched long and hard for something more convenient, but it dosen't exsist....
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:40:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 5:42:50 AM EDT by Daytona955i]

Originally Posted By FourStringSlinger:
Agreed....Although I hate compression.

4x10+1x15 is a versatile setup and should get you where you want to be tone wise.

Some of my stuff:

Main rig, Mesa/Boogie 400+ with Korg tuner and Furman power conditioner, powering an Ampeg SVT 8x10:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_9.jpg

Pedalboard:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_3.jpg

Backup head, Ampeg SVT III pro with Korg tuner:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_4.jpg

'92 Wal Mach II:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_2.jpg

'77 Wal Pro 1e:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_1.jpg

80's Spector:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_11.jpg

Not pictured...'78 Fender P-bass with Rio Grande pickup.

Oh...and DrFrige, the 8x10 is the way for rock. There is no substitute...trust me, I have searched long and hard for something more convenient, but it dosen't exsist....




Nice rigs!

I bet the rack with your MB in it weighs as much as your 8x10!

If my band ever hits the road with some major tours I'm trading my cabs in for the Mesa Roadready Powerhouse 1000, it's a 1x15 with 4 10's in the corners all packed into a road case already, and weighs in at about 140lbs.

Although I should stick my Ampeg head into a rack with a power conditioner and a tuner before that.

There's just too much good sounding gear out there for me to make up my mind. Although when the cost of a new tube job is as much as I paid for my 4x10, I'm glad I don't have a 400+.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 9:49:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Daytona955i:

Originally Posted By FourStringSlinger:
Agreed....Although I hate compression.

4x10+1x15 is a versatile setup and should get you where you want to be tone wise.

Some of my stuff:

Main rig, Mesa/Boogie 400+ with Korg tuner and Furman power conditioner, powering an Ampeg SVT 8x10:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_9.jpg

Pedalboard:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_3.jpg

Backup head, Ampeg SVT III pro with Korg tuner:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_4.jpg

'92 Wal Mach II:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_2.jpg

'77 Wal Pro 1e:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_1.jpg

80's Spector:

i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/4StringSlinger/09_06_11.jpg

Not pictured...'78 Fender P-bass with Rio Grande pickup.

Oh...and DrFrige, the 8x10 is the way for rock. There is no substitute...trust me, I have searched long and hard for something more convenient, but it dosen't exsist....




Nice rigs!

I bet the rack with your MB in it weighs as much as your 8x10!

If my band ever hits the road with some major tours I'm trading my cabs in for the Mesa Roadready Powerhouse 1000, it's a 1x15 with 4 10's in the corners all packed into a road case already, and weighs in at about 140lbs.

Although I should stick my Ampeg head into a rack with a power conditioner and a tuner before that.

There's just too much good sounding gear out there for me to make up my mind. Although when the cost of a new tube job is as much as I paid for my 4x10, I'm glad I don't have a 400+.



LMAO yeah, that head is heavy...although it's mounted in one of those SKB dolly cases, has an extendable handle and wheels like luggage. Makes it tolerable.

There are def drawbacks to the all-tube [retubing costs being one of 'em] but the tone is amazing. The Mesa is generally more reliable than the ampeg SVT tube heads [and lighter]...it's kinda like an improved, hotrodded SVT in some respects.

I like the Mesa Powerhouse 1000. A good friend of mine has one, and it smokes! I also know a guy that's using the 2x15 roadready, and it's a great sounding cab too. Those are probably the only cabs I would consider getting rid of the 8x10 for...but, like all mesa stuff...they ain't cheap!
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