Atheist Civilizations

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Atheist Civilizations

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:56:59 PM EDT

I heard the other day that there has been no civilizations discovered that were atheist
and did not worship some kind of gods. I've been trying to think of one but come up empty.
I'm pretty sure the Inca's,Mayans,Greeks,Romans,Persians,American Indians,Hindu's,Egyptians
all had gods. What about the Mongol's,did they worship gods. Anyone have any ideas?

Posted: 8/5/2005 7:57:43 PM EDT

[#1]

no.

Sgastr15

Posted: 8/5/2005 8:07:24 PM EDT

[#2]

.

Posted: 8/5/2005 10:06:28 PM EDT

[#3]

I can't think of any civilization that hasn't had some form of religion followed by the majority of the population.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:00:32 PM EDT

[#4]

I guess it is true. With all the people who claim there is no God you
would think there was one somewhere. It kinda proves we were created
to worship God. Just seems like alot of people get off track and start making
their own gods to worship.

Posted: 8/6/2005 9:05:27 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I guess it is true. With all the people who claim there is no God you
would think there was one somewhere. It kinda proves we were created
to worship God. Just seems like alot of people get off track and start making
their own gods to worship.

I don't think it proves we were created to worship any god.

What I think it DOES show is that humans have a need to understand and explain phenomenon around them, even if they have no basis to do so. Thus, the ancient civilizations worshiping the sun, moon, gods of war, love, etc. They could not explain why things happened, so they attributed events to gods they created.

As for being off-track and "making their own gods to worship" -- who is to say they're not right? Who is to say which religion is right? Look around -- we have christians vs catholics, christians vs jews, muslims vs everyone, and thats just whats been going on in the last few of decades. (not trying to be a troll, I just don't understand how one religion can be "correct" or "right" for everyone -- if your faith is "right" for you, then good for you, but your faith might not be "right" for everyone)

Posted: 8/6/2005 10:33:15 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
I guess it is true. With all the people who claim there is no God you
would think there was one somewhere. It kinda proves we were created
to worship God. Just seems like alot of people get off track and start making
their own gods to worship.

****Deleted****<va-gunnut>

Posted: 8/6/2005 11:01:48 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

****Deleted****<va-gunnut>

So millions upons millions of people with one set of beliefs were all wrong but you are right.

Is that what you are saying?

Hmm/

SGat1r5

Posted: 8/7/2005 12:05:52 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:

if you look throughout history people have been "worshipping" "gods" that fit their culture and beliefs of a "afterlife". so people not knowing any better, either go along with it,

So millions upons millions of people with one set of beliefs were all wrong but you are right.

Is that what you are saying?

Hmm/

SGat1r5

****Deleted****<va-gunnut>

Posted: 8/7/2005 12:31:45 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

So millions upons millions of people with one set of beliefs were all wrong but you are right.

Is that what you are saying?

That about sums it up.

Posted: 8/7/2005 1:09:38 AM EDT

[#10]

You'll never find a atheist civilization or a civilization that has any particular god, you'll always have individuals's who do not follow the main stream... It doesn't prove or disprove a god

You may find some popular gods in the old days such as with the Aztecs and Egypt but the entire population didn't follow the same belief system.

Posted: 8/7/2005 3:16:24 AM EDT

[#11]

mobius, do you understand the rules for posting in this forum?

Posted: 8/7/2005 6:24:12 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess it is true. With all the people who claim there is no God you
would think there was one somewhere. It kinda proves we were created
to worship God. Just seems like alot of people get off track and start making
their own gods to worship.

I don't think it proves we were created to worship any god.

What I think it DOES show is that humans have a need to understand and explain phenomenon around them, even if they have no basis to do so. Thus, the ancient civilizations worshiping the sun, moon, gods of war, love, etc. They could not explain why things happened, so they attributed events to gods they created.

As for being off-track and "making their own gods to worship" -- who is to say they're not right? Who is to say which religion is right? Look around -- we have christians vs catholics, christians vs jews, muslims vs everyone, and thats just whats been going on in the last few of decades. (not trying to be a troll, I just don't understand how one religion can be "correct" or "right" for everyone -- if your faith is "right" for you, then good for you, but your faith might not be "right" for everyone)

good post.

Posted: 8/7/2005 6:31:51 AM EDT

[#13]

Not exactly true, USSR, Mao's Communist China, and Kymer Rouge Cambodia. They actually had official athiest policy and set about erradicating religion in their society to include those with religion.

Sterling human rights records.

Posted: 8/7/2005 10:48:35 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
mobius, do you understand the rules for posting in this forum?

it appears that any person who has a rational thought on why people " worship" a so called "god" is a "heritic". so his views are wiped off.......and they say the inquisition is dead.

Posted: 8/7/2005 10:53:11 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Not exactly true, USSR, Mao's Communist China, and Kymer Rouge Cambodia. They actually had official athiest policy and set about erradicating religion in their society to include those with religion.

Sterling human rights records.

That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure if he meant ancient civilizations only. On that note, I cannot think of a Commie country that is not -- officially or unofficially -- atheistic.

Being atheistic countries, I wouldn't expect them to always recognize basic human rights. It's simply up to them how they should treat their people. After all, if there is no God, humanity is ultimately worthless, life itself is ultimately meaningless, and there are no objective moral values. On the atheistic view, those governments aren't obligated in the least to treat their people with false dignity and recognize rights that aren't really there.

Posted: 8/7/2005 11:33:38 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
mobius, do you understand the rules for posting in this forum?

it appears that any person who has a rational thought on why people " worship" a so called "god" is a "heritic". so his views are wiped off.......and they say the inquisition is dead.

Please, give me a break.

You're welcome to believe what you want to. You are welcome to disagree with others about religion. You are not allowed to come in here and share your views by insulting others or their beliefs. If you have a point to make, then make it with fact or at least a reasonable discussion.

Since you are know aware of the rules for posting in here, please follow them. If you find that too difficult too do, stay out of this forum. If that is still to difficult to accomplish, then it will be done for you.

Posted: 8/8/2005 8:02:54 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Not exactly true, USSR, Mao's Communist China, and Kymer Rouge Cambodia. They actually had official athiest policy and set about erradicating religion in their society to include those with religion.

Sterling human rights records.

That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure if he meant ancient civilizations only. On that note, I cannot think of a Commie country that is not -- officially or unofficially -- atheistic.

such a load of BS

USSR = Eastern Orthodox

China = has always been and will always be a 3 fold mixture of Confuscianism, Taoism, and Buddhism.

Cambodia = Theravada Buddhism, Buddhism is the state religion as well. The suppression of Buddhism was not based on atheism. Hang Ngor, author of A Cambodian Odyssey, on which the movie The Killing Fields was based, wrote of his work assignment to destroy the temple of Phum Phnom. The monks were denounced as “parasites” he reported: “Buddhism was the old religion we were supposed to discard, and Angka was the new ‘religion’ we were supposed to accept."

To say that the civilization was non-religious when 95% of the population is religious is either a sign of profound ignorance or the worst sort of untruth.

If your case is so strong, why the need to lie about it?

Posted: 8/8/2005 8:05:04 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:

****Deleted****<va-gunnut>

So millions upons millions of people with one set of beliefs were all wrong but you are right.

Is that what you are saying?

Hmm/

SGat1r5

Not sure what he said, but I would say with millions of people all with widely different beliefs the odds of the atheist view of God being correct are just as good.

Its probably more likely that noone, atheists included, is correct.

Posted: 8/8/2005 10:31:34 AM EDT

[#19]

As to no communist countries having a religion, I can give at least one counterargument: Cuba. Cuba is by and large religious, with a large percentage of Catholics and many people practicing a mishmash of various religions (like how most Japanese are a combination of Shinto and Buddhist). Cuba was officially atheist until 1992, but are now officially secular, and the government does not attempt to suppress religion.

Back to the main discussion: most cultures do have some form of religion or other, and I can't think of a single ancient culture that didn't. Humans seem to have something in them that requires an explanation, and big people in the sky seem to have been a good explanation for about everybody until the advent of scientific explanations, where we are now seeing a split off of people who think that a god cannot or does not exist, and choose atheism, or those who think that there is no evidence that god does or does not exist, or they simply do not care, and therefore choose agnosticism, since there are now explanations for the sun moving about and humans coming to exist that do not involve deities.

Posted: 8/8/2005 12:02:15 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not exactly true, USSR, Mao's Communist China, and Kymer Rouge Cambodia. They actually had official athiest policy and set about erradicating religion in their society to include those with religion.

Sterling human rights records.

That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure if he meant ancient civilizations only. On that note, I cannot think of a Commie country that is not -- officially or unofficially -- atheistic.

such a load of BS

USSR = Eastern Orthodox

China = has always been and will always be a 3 fold mixture of Confuscianism, Taoism, and Buddhism.

Cambodia = Theravada Buddhism, Buddhism is the state religion as well. The suppression of Buddhism was not based on atheism. Hang Ngor, author of A Cambodian Odyssey, on which the movie The Killing Fields was based, wrote of his work assignment to destroy the temple of Phum Phnom. The monks were denounced as “parasites” he reported: “Buddhism was the old religion we were supposed to discard, and Angka was the new ‘religion’ we were supposed to accept."

To say that the civilization was non-religious when 95% of the population is religious is either a sign of profound ignorance or the worst sort of untruth.

If your case is so strong, why the need to lie about it?

I did not say that these countries' populations were non-religious. I merely said that I could not think of a Communist country that was not also, officially or unofficially, atheistic. I was talking about atheism on a national level. The Soviet Union was an officially atheistic state -- no doubt about it. People's Republic of China: officially atheist. I'll take your word that Buddhism is the state religion of Cambodia. It doesn't matter, that is still atheistic. Buddhism, as well as Confucianism and Taoism, in the strictest sense, are very much atheistic religions (or at least non-theistic). Of all people, I'd think you'd know that atheistic doesn't equal non-religious.

If your case is so strong, why the need to lie about it?

What "case" are you talking about? I was not trying to argue; I was just making a comment. Also, I did not lie. Now I may be mistaken, or you could have misunderstood me (which looks to be the case), but I am not in the buisness of delibaerately trying to decieve people. If you want to correct me, I am totally OK with that, but please don't accuse me of lying.

Posted: 8/8/2005 12:16:11 PM EDT

[#21]

Didn't say no communist countries guys I listed three with a historical tract record and policy of no relgion and programs to erradicate it more often than not brutally.

The fact they failed has little to do with their ideals as the falicy of their philosophy.

Suggested reading The Communist Manifesto by Marx and The Little Red Book by Mao.

Communism called for the removeal of "Absolute Morality" as a basis of it's doctrine. It follows that any man who has religion thus is in direct conflict with communist doctrine. It's not as simple as the communist doctrine was against relion but the religous.

Heck you want an interesting study, read communist doctrine as it applys to the family.

No not all people subject to these regemes I mentioned were not relgious but the regemes sure the hell were.

Not knowing this shows a lack of knowledge on the topic.

Tj

Posted: 8/8/2005 12:20:27 PM EDT

[#22]

Before I can answer this, what is the official Arfcom definition of "Civilization?"

Posted: 8/8/2005 12:22:39 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
As to no communist countries having a religion, I can give at least one counterargument: Cuba. Cuba is by and large religious, with a large percentage of Catholics and many people practicing a mishmash of various religions (like how most Japanese are a combination of Shinto and Buddhist). Cuba was officially atheist until 1992, but are now officially secular, and the government does not attempt to suppress religion.

You're right. Cuba is not an atheist state anymore. From 1962 it was officially an atheist state until 1992 which it amended its constitution to become formally a secular state. I stand corrected . . .

Back to the main discussion: most cultures do have some form of religion or other, and I can't think of a single ancient culture that didn't. Humans seem to have something in them that requires an explanation, and big people in the sky seem to have been a good explanation for about everybody until the advent of scientific explanations, where we are now seeing a split off of people who think that a god cannot or does not exist, and choose atheism, or those who think that there is no evidence that god does or does not exist, or they simply do not care, and therefore choose agnosticism, since there are now explanations for the sun moving about and humans coming to exist that do not involve deities.

Quick note: While I do not believe in "big people in the sky", I cetainly don't think science is as sufficaint as you make it out to be, either.

Posted: 8/8/2005 12:22:41 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Before I can answer this, what is the official Arfcom definition of "Civilization?"

BLING! POINT SCORED AND COUNTED!

Posted: 8/8/2005 12:36:23 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not exactly true, USSR, Mao's Communist China, and Kymer Rouge Cambodia. They actually had official athiest policy and set about erradicating religion in their society to include those with religion.

Sterling human rights records.

That's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure if he meant ancient civilizations only. On that note, I cannot think of a Commie country that is not -- officially or unofficially -- atheistic.

such a load of BS

USSR = Eastern Orthodox

China = has always been and will always be a 3 fold mixture of Confuscianism, Taoism, and Buddhism.

Cambodia = Theravada Buddhism, Buddhism is the state religion as well. The suppression of Buddhism was not based on atheism. Hang Ngor, author of A Cambodian Odyssey, on which the movie The Killing Fields was based, wrote of his work assignment to destroy the temple of Phum Phnom. The monks were denounced as “parasites” he reported: “Buddhism was the old religion we were supposed to discard, and Angka was the new ‘religion’ we were supposed to accept."

To say that the civilization was non-religious when 95% of the population is religious is either a sign of profound ignorance or the worst sort of untruth.

If your case is so strong, why the need to lie about it?

I did not say that these countries were non-religious. I merely said that I could not think of a Communist country that was not also offically or unofically atheistic. I was talking about atheism on a national level. The Soviet Union was an officially atheistic state -- no doubt about it. People's Republic of China: officially atheist. I'll take your word that Buddhism is the state religion of Cambodia. It doesn't matter, that is still atheistic. Buddhism, as well as Confuscianism and Taoism, in the strictest sense, are very much atheistic religions (or at least non-theistic). Of all people, I'd think you'd know that atheistic doesn't equal non-religious.

actualy it depends on the sect both in Taoism and Buddhism. Confuscianism is hard to pinpoint because it is less complete than Taoism and Buddhism and its almost always intermixed with one or both of the more robust religions.

I know enough about atheism to know that atheism doesn't lead to anything other than a lack of belief in a deity. It takes a belief in something, whether a religion like Islam or Christianity, or belief system like fascism or communism to enable people to to commit truly horrible crimes.

Atheism is amoral, not immoral. It is not a fully functional belief system like a religion.

If an atheist does something immoral or moral its not due to atheism, but to whatever belief system he holds to. I do volunteer work distributing second hand furniture to needy families. Does atheism get credit for that or does Unitarian Universalism (my religion).

If a Christian bombs an abortion clinic, does the blame fall on Christianity?

Totalitarian dictators tend to kill people in job lots regardless of their religous affilation (or lack thereof).

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