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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/8/2001 9:46:18 AM EDT
Seems to me that our guys in China are getting damn near the definition of being hostages. I know in these diplomacy-heavy times, that word is a last resort, especially when dealing with China. The time is quickly approaching, if it hasn't already arrived where our boys are going to have to be thought of as hostages. What are your thoughts, and what should the U.S. do if China fails to release the crew?
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 10:07:14 AM EDT
when the media become patriots........
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 10:10:28 AM EDT
When they kill one to prove a point. Until then, they will be "Detainee's"
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 10:18:37 AM EDT
By my definition they have been hostages since they landed.
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 12:17:47 PM EDT
The minute China refused to return them when we first asked they be returned. Send a team to So. America and kidnap the Chinese Premier; bring him to the US and say lets make a deal!
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 12:58:36 PM EDT
I think the US Navy could say "let's make a deal" so much more effectively!
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 1:08:04 PM EDT
"I think the US Navy could say "let's make a deal" so much more effectively!" Yep, and the 82nd Airborne out of C-17's to deliver the message in person. This upcoming week WILL tell the tale about our president...
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 1:30:18 PM EDT
you meant they aren't yet??????????
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 2:00:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By patriot_dave: By my definition they have been hostages since they landed.
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Amen! If someone is held against their will and the takers demand something for thier release. That means they are hostages since day one.
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 2:19:37 PM EDT
If you are walking on a nature trail (international waters)... And you sprain your ankle (emergency) and cut thru my yard (land in Hainang)... And at gunpoint/force/duress I take you inside and make you stay as neogotiators coem in and talk to you and me... I WILL be charged as kidnapping, and you WILL be labeled a hostage..... OUT HERE....
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 2:35:41 PM EDT
As far as I'm concerned, they were "hostages" when they were removed from the plane at gunpoint.
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 3:07:43 PM EDT
This is when: Main Entry: hos·tage Pronunciation: 'häs-tij Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from hoste Date: 13th century 1 a : a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge that promises will be kept or terms met by the other party b : a person taken by force to secure the taker's demands 2 : one that is involuntarily controlled by an outside influence Lest you be tempted to use the 2d definition first, remember that if another word better expresses it, use it: Main Entry: de·tain·ee Pronunciation: di-"tA-'nE, "dE- Function: noun Date: circa 1928 : a person held in custody especially for political reasons They are detainees, not hostages, until their release is explicitly conditioned upon something.
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 3:27:44 PM EDT
rhetoric- when you piss on my head and tell me its raining....
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 3:45:14 PM EDT
If the Chinese were saying, we will release the crew after we complete our investigation, then that might be acceptable. The Chinese are saying that they will release the crew when we apologize, admit fault, honor their supposed 200-mile economic zone and quit reconnaissance flights. This is clearly a hostage situation.
Link Posted: 4/8/2001 6:47:45 PM EDT
They've been hostages ever since they could have been returned and it didn't happen. There is no reason to even say thye need to complete their investigation. The investigation will drag on and on. Basically the Chinese will milk this until it becomes a serious problem for them. We need to take action now. They've had their chance to be "diplomatic". Now we need to get serious. I expected more from Colin Powell. What can we do locally to send a messge to the enemy? [red][size=4] P.R.K.
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 5:36:39 AM EDT
Magic, after seeing the news late last night, I agree. They are being held in lieu of an apology. They are now hostages.
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 5:43:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet: rhetoric- when you piss on my head and tell me its raining....
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Amen...and amen!!!!!!!!! First off, if ANY other nation was doing this to us (Not that any other nation would) I would be inclined to "give peace a chance." However, I am convinced that China is poised for our destruction. And you don't make deals with the devil. You don't barter with terrorists. That said, I would hate to see a military solution implemented, due to escalation, and the potential for MASSIVE loss of life. But then, how are you SUPPOSED to treat those who are your sworn enemies????
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 6:30:59 AM EDT
they are clearly hostages if you dom't believe me ask the soldiers on board the plane, oh thats right you can't they are hostages.
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 7:37:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cible: This is when: Main Entry: hos·tage Pronunciation: 'häs-tij Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from hoste Date: 13th century 1 a : a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge that promises will be kept or terms met by the other party b : a person taken by force to secure the taker's demands 2 : one that is involuntarily controlled by an outside influence Lest you be tempted to use the 2d definition first, remember that if another word better expresses it, use it: Main Entry: de·tain·ee Pronunciation: di-"tA-'nE, "dE- Function: noun Date: circa 1928 : a person held in custody especially for political reasons They are detainees, not hostages, until their release is explicitly conditioned upon something.
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Cible- The Chinese [b]HAVE[/b] put their release upon the condition that a) we "apologize", b) cease coastal patrols. Therefore, by the defintions you posted on this board, THEY ARE HOSTAGES.
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 7:47:24 AM EDT
I'd say that this proves they are hostages Chinese pilot sought permission to shoot down US plane: HK newspaper HONG KONG, April 9 (AFP) - A Chinese fighter pilot requested permission to shoot down a US spy plane after seeing it collide with his comrade's jet, a Hong Kong newspaper said Monday. Pilot Zhao Yu was refused permission and instead manouevred to force the American plane, which was attempting to fly away from China, to land at an airbase, the South China Morning Post quoted Chinese sources as saying. The 24 crew members of the US crew and their EP-3 Aries surveillance plane have been detained in the southern province of Hainan for more than a week. The sources also told the English language paper that when the American plane landed at the Lingshui airbase, a Chinese officer wrestled a US airman to the ground to gain access to the craft. Zhao told Chinese television on Friday that he and fellow pilot Wang Wei had been tracking the spy plane closely in their fighter jets when the larger aircraft veered abruptly, smashing into Wang's plane. Wang parachuted from his stricken jet, but has been missing, presumed dead, since the collision eight days ago. The Post's source said, however, that after the collision, in international air space, Zhao radioed to military ground control for permission to shoot down the spy plane, which was refused. "The officials at ground control were cool headed," one source told the paper. "It would have been an act of war, whereas the collision was an accident." After the collision the US plane attempted to fly northeast, away from China, the sources said, but Zhao forced it to land in Hainan. When the American plane landed, its crew refused to allow the Chinese onto the craft without US diplomats present, the sources added. "Then a senior officer arrived, walked up the stairs and wrestled a US crew member guarding the entrance. The officer threw the airman to the ground, enabling the PLA (People's Liberation Army) to enter," the paper reported. hope you take notice of the forced them to land part........
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 8:27:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2001 8:34:23 AM EDT by platform389]
"At What Point Will They Be Considered Hostages???" OR... At What Point Do WE Consider these actions warlike? I simply cannot understand why Bush continues to play softball with these fools. Maybe he is in over his head... I don't like to think so, but it sure doesn't look promising thus far. From CNN.com today They said that such flights must stop -- adding, however, that U.S. tourists were welcome on the island. Yes, "tourists" wearing boots and camo should arriving soon. By airdrop...
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 9:35:39 AM EDT
After the first day! I'm starting to get mad!
Link Posted: 4/9/2001 1:30:12 PM EDT
If you are held in a foreign country against your will you are either a prisoner or a hostage. Pick one. Detainee is just another word for "hand job" which is what this whole incident is. I'm not exactly sure what China has in mind...but they aren't doing themselves any good. But then again, these are the same people who kill newborn girl babies and shoot political prisoners so they can harvest, make that...CUT OUT their organs.
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