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Posted: 11/1/2009 6:16:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 6:18:26 PM EST by anekrel]
"That's why you came to me, isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing? Well, it worked. And you'll get what you want: a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant. And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain." - Garak, In The Pale Moonlight

Just got done watching this episode again. Damn fine writing. One of the best Star Trek episodes ever.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:17:44 PM EST
DS9?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:18:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:19:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Molotov357:
DS9?

Indeed it is.. Man that was the best series ever put on TV... At least in the 90's.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:19:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 6:30:23 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Molotov357:
DS9?

Yep...

Sisko and the 'humble tailor' engineer a Romulan-Klingon-Federation alliance against the Dominion/Cardassians

Other great Garak quotes

(While playing James Bond with Bashir on the holodeck, and seeing Mr Bond's apartment with guns/'supplied' girl)

'I believe I may have joined the wrong intelligence service'

(Episode was 'Our Man Bashir'... Cpt Sisko as 'Dr No', Dax & Kira as the obligatory 'Bond Girls', and so on down the line)

Although 'funny' to a point, it also set the stage for Bashir actually getting to be a spy, for Section 31
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:20:28 PM EST
Garak is one of the best ST characters ever written. They always kept you guessing and thus kept the character fresh even after season upon season.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:20:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheRocketmac:

Originally Posted By Molotov357:
DS9?

Indeed it is.. Man that was the best series ever put on TV... At least in the 90's.
They don't make TV like that any more.

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:21:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheRocketmac:

Originally Posted By Molotov357:
DS9?

Indeed it is.. Man that was the best series ever put on TV... At least in the 90's.


I'm a big TNG fan, but I have to agree with you, there. After Season 4, DS9 outclassed TNG in every aspect, imo.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:22:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheRocketmac:

Originally Posted By Molotov357:
DS9?

Indeed it is.. Man that was the best series ever put on TV... At least in the 90's.


It had it's moments. It could have been way, way better tho.

The main story arc episodes had very little continuity.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:22:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By anekrel:
Just got done watching this episode again. Damn fine writing. One of the best Star Trek episodes ever.
If not the best episode ever. Absolutely powerful television.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:23:47 PM EST
Fortune favors the bold
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:24:00 PM EST
I'm not much of a trek fan, but I liked DS9. Lots of action and solid writing. I liked it when lots of ships had space fights with lots of other ships.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:26:36 PM EST
$%^& DS9. Arrrgh! It was ahead of its time and started slow, but it had much. Lotsa depth and plot twists. Kinda like a BSG.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:26:51 PM EST
DEEP SPACE NINE: "Way... Warrior" - REV. 07/18/95 - ACT SIX 89B.

QUARK: And the worst part is, my only hope for salvation... is the Federation.

GARAK: I know precisely how you feel.

Quark suddenly gets an idea.

QUARK: Here, I want you to try something for me.

Quark pulls out a glass and fulls it with a foamy brown
liquid.

QUARK: Take a sip of this.

Garak looks skeptically at the drink.

GARAK: What is it?

QUARK: A human drink. It's called root beer.

GARAK: (eyes it suspiciously) I don't know...

QUARK: Go ahead. Aren't you just a little bit curious?

Garak hesitates a beat, but then takes a sip. He immediately makes a face.

QUARK: What do you think?

GARAK: It's vile.

Quark is glad that someone agrees with him.

QUARK: I know. It's so bubbly and cloying and happy.

GARAK: Just like the Federation.

QUARK: But you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you start to like it.

GARAK: It's insidious.

QUARK: Just like the Federation.

There's a long beat as the two aliens share their common bond.

GARAK: Do you think they'll be able to save us?

QUARK: (defeated) I hope so.

Quark takes a sip of the root beer, then shudders.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:27:02 PM EST
Sisko's final speech, along with the Garak speech you quoted, helped make the episode.

And make the point.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:27:16 PM EST
Another great episode of Trek.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:27:28 PM EST
Once the whole conflict with the Dominion got rolling, DS9 got really, really good. Garek was my favorite character.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:35:54 PM EST
Garak is arguably one of the most interesting characters in all of the star trek realm.
DS9 was darker, subtler and more interesting, more often than the other trek franchises.

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:40:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:47:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By thexrayboy:
Garak is arguably one of the most interesting characters in all of the star trek realm.
DS9 was darker, subtler and more interesting, more often than the other trek franchises.



I like how they used this series as an engine to really bring the Star Trek Universe down to reality, and poke some holes in that utopia.

I love Garak, and Sisko has actually been my favorite commander for some time. I love Kirk, and I love Picard, but I really appreciated Sisko the most. Picard I don't think could have made the decision in this episode that Sisko did.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:49:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 7:07:13 PM EST by BigFellor]
Forgot how much I enjoyed DS9. Added to my NetFlix queue. Sisko was one of my favorite Trek characters.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:56:28 PM EST
(explaining the story of the boy who cried wolf)

Bashir: "The point is, if you lie all the time, no one will believe you."

Garak: "Are you sure that's the point, doctor?"

Bashir: "Of course. What else would it be?"

Garak: "That you should never tell the same lie twice."
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:04:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By anekrel:
Originally Posted By thexrayboy:
Garak is arguably one of the most interesting characters in all of the star trek realm.
DS9 was darker, subtler and more interesting, more often than the other trek franchises.



I like how they used this series as an engine to really bring the Star Trek Universe down to reality, and poke some holes in that utopia.

I love Garak, and Sisko has actually been my favorite commander for some time. I love Kirk, and I love Picard, but I really appreciated Sisko the most. Picard I don't think could have made the decision in this episode that Sisko did.


Picard was perfectly content on not one, but TWO occasions to allow an entire planet of innocent people to go extinct without stepping in to prevent it.

The first time, Worf's adopted brother saved some of the natives and Picard decided not to beam them into space to die with the rest of their civilization, but went through an elaborate hoax to transplant them to another world without them knowing advanced aliens had saved them.

The second time, Picard once again decides to sit on his ass and "not interfere" when a planet is threatened with extinction, but Data forces him to hear a little girl beg for her life and guilts him into preventing the disaster that would destroy their world, also without the locals realizing that they were saved by advanced aliens.

Janeway did the same shit. "They're going to die unless we get involved? Fuck 'em, if they want us to save them, they'd better have something I want."

Sisko would have stepped in and prevented mass extermination of whole species on general principle. Kirk would do it without hesitation.

As for using WMD's or murder to win a war and save millions or billions of lives...

Sisko did it. He felt guilty afterward, but like he said, given the same choice he'd have done it again.

Kirk wouldn't have gone along with murder, but he'd come up with some brilliant method of getting it all done anyway. As for bombing the shit out of the enemy, he'd be up for that in a heartbeat.

Picard? He was ordered to infect the Borg with a computer virus that would destroy them, and refused. Funny how he changed his mind about that later.

Janeway only had principals she wouldn't violate when it meant preventing the ship from getting home, thereby ensuring the crew was trapped with her and forced to suffer her every whim, mwa ha ha. When it came to getting something she wanted, she was perfectly content with killing off whoever got in her way and she'd sleep just fine the following night.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:07:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 7:08:02 PM EST by 1Andy2]
The WMD thing was sisko launching chemical warheads against human Maquis colonies, wasn't it?

Meh. I rooted for the Maquis every episode they were in. Fuck the Federation. Bunch of Orwellian group-thinking hypocrites.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:08:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 7:10:24 PM EST by Ahiodsohi]
Since no one else has posted the YouTube of this scene, here ya go.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:08:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By macpherson:
Garak is one of the best ST characters ever written. They always kept you guessing and thus kept the character fresh even after season upon season.


Played by Andy Robinson, a great actor who also played the psychotic killer Scorpio in Dirty Harry.

For the bonus round, what is his connection to another Star Trek alumnus?
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:14:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
The WMD thing was sisko launching chemical warheads against human Maquis colonies, wasn't it?

Meh. I rooted for the Maquis every episode they were in. Fuck the Federation. Bunch of Orwellian group-thinking hypocrites.


I rooted for them, too, and cheered when Lieutenant Ro went off to join them.

Swindle: Perfect assessment.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:21:51 PM EST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YoPXogkXsk
Worf kills Weyoun #7 - Damar has some of the best lines!

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:22:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Originally Posted By macpherson:
Garak is one of the best ST characters ever written. They always kept you guessing and thus kept the character fresh even after season upon season.


Played by Andy Robinson, a great actor who also played the psychotic killer Scorpio in Dirty Harry.

For the bonus round, what is his connection to another Star Trek alumnus?


I knew that voice and those eyes were familiar, I just never connected the dots.

I fail the bonus round too.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:24:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 7:36:58 PM EST by anekrel]
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Originally Posted By macpherson:
Garak is one of the best ST characters ever written. They always kept you guessing and thus kept the character fresh even after season upon season.


Played by Andy Robinson, a great actor who also played the psychotic killer Scorpio in Dirty Harry.

For the bonus round, what is his connection to another Star Trek alumnus?


I know he did an episode of CHiPs. Michael Dorn had a recurring role in that show, but I don't remember if he was on that specific ep.

And an episode of Columbo, which Kate Mulgrew was a part of.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:32:02 PM EST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G83AOPFhPC4
The Magnificent Ferengi
(Fast forward to 5:13) - "I HATE - Ferengi"
(Fast forward to 6:50) - The Vorta meat puppet

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:33:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By hobbsar:
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Originally Posted By macpherson:
Garak is one of the best ST characters ever written. They always kept you guessing and thus kept the character fresh even after season upon season.


Played by Andy Robinson, a great actor who also played the psychotic killer Scorpio in Dirty Harry.

For the bonus round, what is his connection to another Star Trek alumnus?


I knew that voice and those eyes were familiar, I just never connected the dots.

I fail the bonus round too.


Andy Robinson and Kate Mulgrew played siblings Frank and Mary Ryan on the soap opera Ryan's Hope.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:36:28 PM EST


Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:06:13 PM EST
It is amazing how good that show was.
I wish there would be another decent ST show on the air.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:18:47 PM EST
Another good ep I almost completely forgot about is, "The Siege of AR-558".

Ezri Dax: It's just a few hours ago, we thought of these mines as the kind of ruthless weapon that only the Dominion would use, but now...
Reese: ...they become a whole lot friendlier.
Sisko: Sooner or later, the Jem'Hadar are going to come through those barracades and when they do, the fewer there are the better the chances of our survival.

I love Nog in this episode, too. Very powerful.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:20:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 8:21:35 PM EST by 1Andy2]
Originally Posted By anekrel:
Another good ep I almost completely forgot about is, "The Siege of AR-558".

Ezri Dax: It's just a few hours ago, we thought of these mines as the kind of ruthless weapon that only the Dominion would use, but now...
Reese: ...they become a whole lot friendlier.
Sisko: Sooner or later, the Jem'Hadar are going to come through those barracades and when they do, the fewer there are the better the chances of our survival.

I love Nog in this episode, too. Very powerful.


Another one of those missions that's so crucial to the outcome of the war (and the story arc) that it's never mentioned again. Except for the whole Nog losing a leg thing. That merits a vacuous holodeck episode.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:53:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By anekrel:
Another good ep I almost completely forgot about is, "The Siege of AR-558".

Ezri Dax: It's just a few hours ago, we thought of these mines as the kind of ruthless weapon that only the Dominion would use, but now...
Reese: ...they become a whole lot friendlier.
Sisko: Sooner or later, the Jem'Hadar are going to come through those barracades and when they do, the fewer there are the better the chances of our survival.

I love Nog in this episode, too. Very powerful.


Another one of those missions that's so crucial to the outcome of the war (and the story arc) that it's never mentioned again. Except for the whole Nog losing a leg thing. That merits a vacuous holodeck episode.


Very true.

The moment when Quark realizes the gravity of the situation, and why Nog chose to fight.

I also love Sisko's words at the end to Major Kira. Very moving.

I really need to buy this show
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 10:26:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Originally Posted By anekrel:
Originally Posted By thexrayboy:
Garak is arguably one of the most interesting characters in all of the star trek realm.
DS9 was darker, subtler and more interesting, more often than the other trek franchises.



I like how they used this series as an engine to really bring the Star Trek Universe down to reality, and poke some holes in that utopia.

I love Garak, and Sisko has actually been my favorite commander for some time. I love Kirk, and I love Picard, but I really appreciated Sisko the most. Picard I don't think could have made the decision in this episode that Sisko did.


Picard was perfectly content on not one, but TWO occasions to allow an entire planet of innocent people to go extinct without stepping in to prevent it.

The first time, Worf's adopted brother saved some of the natives and Picard decided not to beam them into space to die with the rest of their civilization, but went through an elaborate hoax to transplant them to another world without them knowing advanced aliens had saved them.

The second time, Picard once again decides to sit on his ass and "not interfere" when a planet is threatened with extinction, but Data forces him to hear a little girl beg for her life and guilts him into preventing the disaster that would destroy their world, also without the locals realizing that they were saved by advanced aliens.

Janeway did the same shit. "They're going to die unless we get involved? Fuck 'em, if they want us to save them, they'd better have something I want."

Sisko would have stepped in and prevented mass extermination of whole species on general principle. Kirk would do it without hesitation.

As for using WMD's or murder to win a war and save millions or billions of lives...

Sisko did it. He felt guilty afterward, but like he said, given the same choice he'd have done it again.

Kirk wouldn't have gone along with murder, but he'd come up with some brilliant method of getting it all done anyway. As for bombing the shit out of the enemy, he'd be up for that in a heartbeat.

Picard? He was ordered to infect the Borg with a computer virus that would destroy them, and refused. Funny how he changed his mind about that later.

Janeway only had principals she wouldn't violate when it meant preventing the ship from getting home, thereby ensuring the crew was trapped with her and forced to suffer her every whim, mwa ha ha. When it came to getting something she wanted, she was perfectly content with killing off whoever got in her way and she'd sleep just fine the following night.


I agree. Kirk and Sisko I could respect.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 2:57:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 2:57:44 AM EST by Brohawk]
You know good things had to happen with Hawk running the station.


I know it's fluffy, but one of my favorite DS9 episodes was the one they interwove with "The Trouble With Tribbles" from the original series.

They did a great job having the DS9 actors interact with the original footage.



ETA: And anything with the Bad Kira from the parallel universe!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:27:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
You know good things had to happen with Hawk running the station.


I know it's fluffy, but one of my favorite DS9 episodes was the one they interwove with "The Trouble With Tribbles" from the original series.

They did a great job having the DS9 actors interact with the original footage.



ETA: And anything with the Bad Kira from the parallel universe!


I liked, "Take Me Out To The Holosuite" where they played a softball game against an all-Vulcan ship.

Death to the opposition!
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:41:09 AM EST
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