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Posted: 8/16/2004 5:19:02 AM EST
I know I can buy this right now. All it has is a detach clip.



But what I want to buy is this. As I read the AWB, I think its illegal as it has pistol grip, folding stock, and detach clip.


My question is, can I buy the second one after the ban sunsets? Is that folding stock and pistol grip stuff only banned by the awb or does some other federal law apply to such features as well?

If I can buy the second one after the ban sunsets, can I legally purchase it, but have a ffl hold it for me? Don't want the JBT's to throw my ass in jail.

any info would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 5:40:46 AM EST
after the ban you can get the good one
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 6:01:46 AM EST
You'll have to have it converted and US-partsed, as they won't be importable for civvy use (89 import ban)...

www.ak-103.com (AK-USA) does this for the Saiga rifles, I see no reason why they won't do it for the shotguns...

Oh, and you'll be able to buy 8rd shotgun mags, too...
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:16:44 PM EST
thanks for the link.

Does that mean it needs a certain number of domestic parts to not be considered an import?

Link Posted: 8/16/2004 10:55:13 PM EST
Yes.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 9:16:30 AM EST
My concern is that eventually the ATF will define a feature set that classifies a SG as a DD. Once the AWB does go away, we'll be able to legally make SG's that are functionally equivalent as those that were already declared DD by name.

Rocko
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 4:12:48 PM EST
yeah, its my understanding that the streetsweeper is functionally no different than the saiga 12 aside from magazine capacity. So really the only thing keeping them from declaring the saiga 12 a dd is that it looks enough like a traditional shotgun and it accepts 5 round clips(though I've heard that you can modify a different 8 round shotgun clip to fit in the saiga 12).

fortunately, once the awb goes away so does all the atf opinion letters that cited the awb as their basis.


heres a question: If I ordered a saiga 12 with the evil features(after the ban lapse of course) and upon its arrival, had my gunsmith install enough US components to make it comply with import laws, would that be legal? Or can it even be delivered into the US with too many russian components?

Or would it be cheaper/easier just to buy a basic saiga 12 from a domestic dealer and modify it however I want to?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 12:44:23 PM EST
I would leave the gun in the first configuration if I were to play shoot the burglar. A prosecutor would have a field day with the second configuration. My house gun is a mossberg 500 in 12 gauge with a 20 inch barrel and wood stocks. No reason to scare some idiot in the Jury box.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 1:02:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

heres a question: If I ordered a saiga 12 with the evil features(after the ban lapse of course) and upon its arrival, had my gunsmith install enough US components to make it comply with import laws, would that be legal? Or can it even be delivered into the US with too many russian components?

Or would it be cheaper/easier just to buy a basic saiga 12 from a domestic dealer and modify it however I want to?



If you had one converted it would have to be assembled with some non imported parts in order to comply with 18 U.S.C. section 922(r). If you were to buy a factory Saiga 12-C you would not have to have any non imported parts, it would be legit as is, under Federal law that is, milage may vary according to State law.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 1:14:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:03:54 PM EST
er... what is it?
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:15:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
I know I can buy this right now. All it has is a detach clip magazine.
www.izhmash.ru/pix/saiga12.jpg




I think it was Jeff Cooper who said, "if it CONTAINS a spring it's called a magazine, if it IS a spring it's called a clip"
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 8:47:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Girlieman:
Concider one of these???
img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/Girlieman/valtro1_sm.jpg



The short barrel makes it a no-no without the proper permit.
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