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Posted: 10/22/2004 5:27:41 PM EST
WHAT IS ASATRU?

Long before Christianity came to northern Europe, the people there - our ancestors - had their own religions. One of these was Asatru. It was practiced in the lands that are today Scandinavia, England, Germany, France, the Netherlands, and other countries as well. Asatru is the original or native religious belief for the peoples who lived in these regions.

WHAT DOES THE WORD "ASATRU" MEAN?
It means, roughly, "belief in the Gods" in Old Norse, the language of ancient Scandinavia in which so much of our source material was written. Asatru is the name by which the Norsemen called their religion.

WHEN DID ASATRU START?
Asatru is thousands of years old. Its beginnings are lost in prehistory, but it is older than Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or most other religions. The spiritual impulses it expresses are as ancient as the European peoples themselves - at least 40,000 years, and perhaps much older.

WHY DO WE NEED ASATRU? AREN'T MOST PEOPLE WHO WANT RELIGION SATISFIED WITH CHRISTIANITY OR ONE OF THE OTHER "ESTABLISHED" RELIGIONS?
People are attracted to the better-known religions because they have genuine spiritual needs which must be filled. People are looking for community and for answers to the "big questions": What life is all about, and how we should live it. For many people today, the so-called major faiths do not have answers that work. Asatru has answers, but it has not been an alternative for most seekers because they haven't known about it. Once they realize that there is another way - a better, more natural, more honorable way - they will not be satisfied with anything less than a return to the religion of their ancestors.

WHY IS THE RELIGION OF OUR ANCESTORS THE BEST ONE FOR US?
Because we are more like our ancestors than we are like anyone else. We inherited not only their general physical appearance, but also their predominant mental, emotional, and spiritual traits. We think and feel more like they did; our basic needs are most like theirs. the religion which best expressed their innermost nature - Asatru - is better suited to us than is some other creed which started in the Middle East among people who are essentially different from us. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are alien religions which do not truly speak to our souls.

WHY DID ASATRU DIE OUT IF IT WAS THE RIGHT RELIGION FOR EUROPEANS?
Asatru was subjected to a violent campaign of repression over a period of hundreds of years. Countless thousands of people were murdered, maimed, and exiled in the process. The common people (your ancestors!) did not give up their cherished beliefs easily. eventually, the monolithic organization of the Christian church, bolstered by threats of economic isolation and assisted by an energetic propaganda campaign, triumphed over the valiant but unsophisticated tribes.

Or so it seemed! Despite this persecution, elements of Asatru continued down to our own times - often in the guise of folklore - proving that our own native religion appeals to our innermost beings in a fundamental way. Now, a thousand years after its supposed demise, it is alive and growing. Indeed, so long as there are men and women of European descent, it cannot really die because it springs form the soul of our people. Asatru isn't just what we BELIEVE, it's what we ARE.

WASN'T THE ACCEPTANCE OF CHRISTIANITY A SIGN OF CIVILIZATION - A STEP UP FROM BARBARISM?
No! The atrocities committed by Christians, Muslims, and Jews throughout history are hardly a step up from anything. The so-called "barbarians" who followed Asatru (the Vikings, the various Germanic tribes, and so forth) were the source of our finest civilized traditions - trial by jury, parliaments, Anglo Saxon common law, and the rights of women, to name a few. Our very word "law" comes from the Norse language, not from the tongues of the Christian lands. We simply did not and do not need Christianity to be civilized.

YOU SAY ASATRU WAS THE RELIGION OF THE VIKINGS, AMONG OTHER EARLY EUROPEAN CULTURES. WEREN'T THEY A PRETTY BLOODTHIRSTY LOT?
Modern historians agree that the Vikings were no more violent than the other peoples of their times. Remember, the descriptions of Viking raids and invasions were all written by their enemies, who were hardly unbiased. Both the Islamic and Christian cultures used means every bit as bloody, if not more so, than the Norsemen. It was a very rough period in history for all concerned!

WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE VIKINGS. DOES THIS MEAN THAT ASATRU IS ONLY FOR PEOPLE OF SCANDINAVIAN ANCESTRY?
No. Asatru, as practiced by the Norse peoples, had so much in common with the religion of the other Germanic tribes, and with their cousins the Celts, that it may be thought of as one version of a general European religion. Asatru is for all European peoples, whether or not their heritage is specifically Scandinavian.

WHAT ARE THE BASIC BELIEFS OF ASATRU?
We believe in an underlying, all-pervading divine energy or essence which is generally hidden from us, and which is beyond our immediate understanding. We further believe that this spiritual reality is interdependent with us - that we affect it, and it affects us.

We believe that this underlying divinity expresses itself to us in the forms of the Gods and Goddesses. Stories about these deities are like a sort of code, the mysterious "language" through which the divine reality speaks to us.

We believe in standards of behavior which are consistent with these spiritual truths and harmonious with our deepest being.

HOW DOES ASATRU DIFFER FROM OTHER RELIGIONS?
Asatru is unlike the better-known religions in many ways. Some of these are:

We are polytheistic. That is, we believe in a number of deities, including Goddesses as well as Gods. We do not accept the idea of "original sin", the notion that we are tainted from birth and intrinsically bad, as does Christianity. Thus, we do not need "saving".

The Middle Eastern religions teach either a hatred of other religions or a duty to convert others, often by force. They have often practiced these beliefs with cruel brutality.

We do not claim to be a universal religion or a faith for all of humankind. In fact, we don't think such a thing is possible or desirable. The different branches of humanity have different ways of looking at the world, each of which is valid for them. It is only right that they have different religions, which of course they do.

DO YOU CONSIDER THE NORSE MYTHS TO BE TRUE?
The myths are stories about the Gods and Goddesses of Asatru. They are ways of stating religious truths. That is, we would say they contain truths about the nature of divinity, our own nature, and the relationship between the two. We do not contend that the myths are literally true, as history.

WHAT ABOUT THESE GODS AND GODDESSES? ARE THEY REAL?
Yes, they are real. However, just as most Christians do not think their God is really an old bearded figure sitting on a golden chair in heaven, we do not believe Thor (for example) is actually a muscular, man-shaped entity carrying a big hammer. There is a real Thor, but we approach an understanding of him through this particular mental picture.

DO FOLLOWERS OF ASATRU PRAY TO THEIR GODS AND GODDESSES?
Yes, but not quite the way most people mean by the word. We never surrender our will to theirs or humble ourselves before them, because we see ourselves as their kin, not as inferior, submissive pawns. Nor do we beg and plead. We commune with them and honor them while seeking their blessing through formal rites and informal meditation. Living a full and virtuous live is a form of prayer in itself. Our religion affects all parts of our lives, not just those fragments that we choose to call "religious".

DON'T YOU WORSHIP STONES AND TREES AND IDOLS?
No. These objects are not Gods, so we don't worship them. We do sometimes use these items as reminders of a God or Goddess, and we believe they can become "charged" with a certain aspect of the divine energy, but we would never confuse them with the actual deities.

WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR TAUGHT IN ASATRU?
Some of the qualities we hold in high regard are strength, courage, joy, honor, freedom, loyalty to kin, realism, vigor, and the revering of our ancestors. To express these things in our lives is virtuous, and we strive to do this. Their opposites - weakness, cowardice, adherence to dogma rather than to the realities of the world, and the like - constitute vices and are to be avoided. Proper behavior in Asatru consists of maximizing one's virtues and minimizing one's vices. This code of conduct reflects the highest and most heroic ideals of our people.

DON'T ALL RELIGIONS BELIEVE IN THESE THINGS YOU'VE JUST NAMED?
No. People may honestly believe that this is the case, but examination does not bear this out. They believe in freedom, yet their scriptures say they are slaves to their God. They accept that joy is good, but their teachings laden them with guilt because of some imaginary "original sin". Their instinct is to understand Nature's world from verifiable evidence, yet they are trained to believe black is white, round is flat, and natural instincts are evil without question when the teachings of their church conflict with reason or with known facts.

Many of us instinctively believe in the values of Asatru because they have been passed down to us from our ancestors. We want to believe that other religions espouse those values, so we see what we want to see. Most people just haven't yet realized that the major religions are saying things that conflict with the values we know in our hearts are right. To find northern European virtues, one should look where those virtues have their natural home - Asatru.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT GOOD AND EVIL?
Good and evil are not constants. What is good in one case will not be good in another, and evil in one circumstance will not be evil under a different set of conditions. In any one instance, the right course of action will have been shaped by the influence of the past and the present. The result may or may not be "good" or "evil", but it will still be the right action.

In no case are good and evil dictated to us by the edicts of an alien, authoritarian deity, as in the Middle East. We are expected to use our freedom, responsibility, and awareness of duty to serve the highest and best ends.

WHAT DOES ASATRU TEACH ABOUT AN AFTERLIFE?
We believe that there is an afterlife, and that those who have lived virtuous lives will go on to experience greater fulfillment, pleasure, and challenge. Those who have led lives characterized more by vice than by virtue will be separated from kin and doomed to an existence of dullness and gloom. The precise nature of the afterlife - what it will look like and feel like - is beyond our understanding and is dealt with symbolically in the myths.

There is also a tradition in Asatru of rebirth within the family line. Perhaps the individual is able to choose whether or not he or she is re-manifested in this world, or there may be natural laws which govern this. In a sense, of course, we all live on in our descendents quite apart from an afterlife as such.

We of Asatru do not overly concern ourselves with the next life. We live here and now, in this life. If we do this and do it well, the next life will take care of itself.

DOES ASATRU INVOLVE ANCESTOR WORSHIP?
Asatru says we should honor our ancestors. It also says we are bonded to those ancestors in a special way. However, we do not actually worship them.

We believe our forebears have passed to us certain spiritual qualities just as surely as they have given us various physical traits. They live on in us. The family or clan is above and beyond the limits of time and place. Thus we have a reverence for our ancestry even though we do not involve ourselves in ancestor worship as such.

DOES ASATRU HAVE A HOLY BOOK, LIKE THE BIBLE?
No. There are written sources which are useful to us because they contain much of our sacred lore in the form of myths and examples of right conduct, but we do not accept them as infallible or inspired documents. Any religion which does this is deceiving its members about the purity and precision of the written word. The various competing factions of Middle Eastern religions are proof of this. Their conflicting interpretations can not all be correct!

There are two real sources of holy truth, and neither expresses itself to us in words. One is the universe around us, which is a manifestation of the underlying divine essence. The other is the universe within us, passed down from our ancestors as instinct, emotion, innate predispositions, and perhaps even racial memory. By combining these sources of internal and external wisdom with the literature left us by our ancestors, we arrive at religious truths. This living spiritual guidance is better than any dusty, dogmatic "holy book", whose writings are often so ambiguous that even clerical scholars disagree and whose interpretations change with the politics of the times.

ASATRU HAS BEEN DESCRIBED AS A "NATURE RELIGION". WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
We treasure the spiritual awe, the feeling of "connecting" with the Gods and Goddesses, which can come from experiencing and appreciating the beauty and majesty of Nature. Our deities act in and through natural law. By working in harmony with Nature we can become co-workers with the Gods. This attitude removes the opposition between "natural" and "supernatural" and between religion and science.

For us, following a "Nature religion" means recognizing that we are part of Nature, subject to all its laws, even when that offends our Christian-influenced misconceptions. We may be Gods-in-the-making, but we are also members of the animal kingdom - a noble heritage in its own right. Our ancestors and their predecessors prevailed through billions of years of unimaginable challenges, a feat which must awe even the Gods themselves.

WHERE DID THE UNIVERSE COME FROM, ACCORDING TO ASATRU?
Our myths describe the beginning of the universe as the unfolding of a natural process, rather than one requiring supernatural intervention. Followers of Asatru need not abandon modern science to retain their religion. The old lore of our people describes the interaction of fire and ice and the development of life from these - but this is symbolic, and we will leave it to our scientists to discover how the universe was born.

WHAT ARE THE RUNES, AND WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO DO WITH ASATRU?
Runes are ancient Germanic symbols representing various concepts or forces in the universe. Taken together, they express our ancestors' world view. Their meanings are intimately connected with the teachings of Asatru. Our myths tell how Odin, father of the Gods, won them through painful ordeal so that Gods and humans alike might benefit from their wisdom.

HOW IS ASATRU ORGANIZED?
Asatru is non-authoritarian and decentralized, expressing our love of freedom. While we do have definite tenets, we have little dogma. There is no all-powerful spiritual leader whose word is law, no "pope" of Asatru to dictate truth. No guru or priest has an exclusive direct line to the Gods. The Gods live in you!

WE FOLLOW THE GODS AND GODDESSES OF ASATRU.

Asatru is the original, pre-Christian religion of the peoples of northern Europe. It was followed by the various tribes that became today's Englishmen, Germans, Scandinavians, Dutch, and related groups. A similar religion and way of life was practiced by the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Baltic, and Slavic peoples. Because of this overlap and the movement of peoples in ancient and modern times, it is fair to make a general statement that Asatru is a religion that expresses the heritage of people of northern European descent as a whole. In short, this is the faith of your ancestors! Because it is our native belief, it best expresses our way of looking at the world.

Our forebears believed in a number of Gods and Goddesses. Some of us think of them as real in the most literal sense, and others of us view them as symbols that help us understand the divine aspects of the universe. However you consider them, it is useful to know the names and functions of the main ones.

* ODIN - father of the Gods, associated with wisdom, poetry, victory
* THOR - a God of strength and might, defender of the Gods and men
* FRIGGA - mother of the Gods, wise, involved with family and children
* TYR - one-handed God renowned for sacrifice, valor, and war prowess
* BALDER - most beautiful of the Gods, soft-spoken, bold, and good
* SKADI - mountain-dwelling Goddess who hunts on skis
* HEIMDAL - watchman guarding the Rainbow Bridge to the realm of the Gods
* IDUN - Goddess who keeps the magic apples that renew the Gods' youth
* FREYA - Goddess of love, fertility and procreation, but with a warrior aspect also
* FREY - virile fertility God whose domain includes love, joy, prosperity
* NJORD - God connected with the sea as a source of food and prosperity through trade

Most of these Gods and Goddesses belong to the family or tribe we call the Aesir, but the last three are of another line, the Vanir.

What does our religion value? We preach and practice courage, honor, the importance of the family and ancestral bonds, strength, freedom, the preservation of our kind, and joyful, vigorous life.

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:36:14 PM EST
I posted in another thread that i wanted the name Thor.

CW
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:38:28 PM EST
After reading a few web sites on Asatru I feel like this is it, the one I've really been living all of my life. It's like if I started my own religion it'd be just like this. Now I've got to try and find others that feel the same way.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:49:08 PM EST
Believe it or not, there are practicing groups out there you just have to look around.
Not that I am pagan in any way or anything because that would make me an evil person according to ARFCOM custom. But if you are actually interested, there are resources available.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:51:46 PM EST
Jesus loves you. You can stop searching now.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:55:04 PM EST
Asatru stoly? I no bereive.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:00:05 PM EST
Asafalse!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:02:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:06:50 PM EST
Guess ya'll didn't read this part:

HOW DOES ASATRU DIFFER FROM OTHER RELIGIONS?
Asatru is unlike the better-known religions in many ways. Some of these are:

We are polytheistic. That is, we believe in a number of deities, including Goddesses as well as Gods. We do not accept the idea of "original sin", the notion that we are tainted from birth and intrinsically bad, as does Christianity. Thus, we do not need "saving".

The Middle Eastern religions teach either a hatred of other religions or a duty to convert others, often by force. They have often practiced these beliefs with cruel brutality.

We do not claim to be a universal religion or a faith for all of humankind. In fact, we don't think such a thing is possible or desirable. The different branches of humanity have different ways of looking at the world, each of which is valid for them. It is only right that they have different religions, which of course they do.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:11:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:13:22 PM EST
Sounds a whole lot like Odinism
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:15:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Damn!

It's too bad for Asatru that Klebold and Harris are both dead now.

They would have made wonderful poster boys for the revival of this religion, eh?

Kinda of like the High Priests of Our Lady Of The Tec-9.

Eric The(Facetious)Hun



I thought Eric and Dylan were athetiests
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:17:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:18:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Sounds a whole lot like Odinism



Same thing. You obviously knew that though.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:18:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:21:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By hatebreed:

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Sounds a whole lot like Odinism



Same thing. You obviously knew that though.



I did my research back in my younger days, BTW your the poster I made certain remarks to involving the band skrewdriver right? Once again, I apologize
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:58:43 PM EST
Well, gee, let's not stop now. Heck, I'm getting used to 90% of ya'll not having anything productive to say in your posts on my topic. Why is your myth, the Christian myth the greatest thing since sliced bread but my myth, which pre-dates your myth by about 35,000 years, not worth following? Odin hung on a tree for 9 days and nights in order to get the magic of the runes to help mankind. He also gave up an eye to gain wisdom. But then you don't believe that but you will believe that your God did things and that's ok, that's the "truth". The only thing that makes it true is your faith so why can't my faith make what I believe just as true. I'm not Middle Eastern, I'm Irish and Yugoslavian so why should I follow a religion that's middle eastern when I have roots in a religion that works for me? Sometimes you guys are just too much.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:08:06 PM EST
TNFrank:

Sorry I joke too much. I sounds like your religion teaches tolerance, something most other religions lack.

I am an atheist but I do not judge others unless they try to judge me.

Keep up your faith, in whatever you believe.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:15:00 PM EST
Jesus 2000. The more you worship, the more you get saved!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:31:37 PM EST
Actually, my brother is all in to that shit. I just made him a ring with his "clans" emblem on the top and three little runes at the 3, 6 and 9 o clock position on the band. Two tone gold, with a diamond studs in each rune and one above his emblem. I'm kind of an unreligious guy either way, so it's not really for me but it seems to speak to him. If you're sincerely interested shoot me an email and I will see what I can do about having some correspondence sent to you for further research, if you wish.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:32:37 PM EST
Asatru is a religion, and joining it is no different than
becoming an Episcopalian, a Muslim, or a Wiccan. Asatru is no
more 'European' than Islam is 'Arabic' or Buddhism is 'Asian.'"


This is a modern fantasy. No indigenous group really believes that
its religion is just a set of practices and abstract concepts,
separate from membership in the community, to be adopted or set aside
at will by outsiders. People may decide to become a Baptist or a
Lutheran, but no one looks in the mirror while brushing their teeth
in the morning, and thinks "Hey, I'm tired of being a Catholic. I
think I'll become a Lakota Sioux."

Native religion is not something apart from the life of the tribe.
Religion, politics, economics, values and customs are all part of one
thing. There is no real separation among them. Taken as a whole, this
aggregate is the "Way" of the group; religion becomes one particular
fraction of "the way the tribe is in the world, and what the tribe
does."

Some religions, in contrast, are not based on the experience of a
particular group, but on abstract philosophy or a revelation divorced
from any tribal or national group. The monotheistic religions are the
best examples of these. One can drift from Methodism to Mormonism, or
from Catholicism to Islam, based on abstract reasoning or emotional
attachment. It is here, not in indigenous belief, that the
proposition of our critics finds its natural home. Those who attack
Asatru because of its Folkish basis still carry with them the mental
assumptions of Christianity and the other philosophical, universalist
sects.


Shedding the Psychic Remnants of Christianity

Most of the lore-based arguments against our Folkish worldview are
based on the four presented above. In general, they show a common
thread - namely, Christian thinking!

First, the idea that all humans spring from Ask and Embla may be
appealing from a simplistic viewpoint, but it implies the non-
existence of other peoples' Gods and thus reflects the same religious
imperialism we find in historical Christianity.

Likewise, to propose that the Aesir and Vanir have sex outside
their "race" (species?) is to use the Eddic texts in the literal way
that fundamentalist Christian uses the Bible.

Finally, to suggest that religions can be chosen in the same way one
chooses a hat or a new car is to divorce the group of people from
their Way, which is characteristic of the monotheistic religions.

Those who reject the Folkish viewpoint often accuse us of not really
being true to the Aesir and Vanir. Ironically, though, a closer look
shows their arguments against us to be much more in line with
Christianity than with the inherently tribal and ethnocentric nature
of indigenous religions!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:36:26 PM EST
I think there is an Ass er two on this site
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:42:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:

Originally Posted By hatebreed:

Originally Posted By Mmanwitgun:
Sounds a whole lot like Odinism



Same thing. You obviously knew that though.



I did my research back in my younger days, BTW your the poster I made certain remarks to involving the band skrewdriver right? Once again, I apologize



Not a problem. I actually didn't take it as an insult. I do in fact enjoy Skrewdriver, it just had little bearing on the argument at hand and would have been taken out of context if discussed in that specific thread anyway. My personal politics are much to broad to be summed up by most peoples narrow ideas on what certain things "mean." No harm no foul, and certainly no hard feelings on my part.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:43:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By CNS_Hit:
I think there is an Ass er two on this site



I agree , you can always tell who they are because they knock everyones religion but their own. They think that they're so right and everyone else is wrong. Well, I've got news for them, I'm just as right in what I believe as they are.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:44:08 PM EST
Isn't the Asatru revival often linked to white seperatism/ supremacy?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:45:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:47:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rabid_Coyote:
Isn't the Asatru revival often linked to white seperatism/ supremacy?



Something like that. But then again Christianity could be linked to the KKK if one chose to limit their perceptions to that. After all the Klan is a "Christian organization." At least that's what THEY say.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:47:21 PM EST
Fuck, the old goat presents a real challenge to any argument of "Believe what you wanna believe its all the sam"
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:53:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:53:45 PM EST
"New Age", where did you get the idea that Asatru is "New Age"? It pre-dates Judism and Christianity by thousands of years so wouldn't that make it "Old Age" and your Christianity "New Age" by comparison? And as far as it being the religion of "white supremacy", well, some misguided people have joined the Asatru movement but then again, there's been quite a few nuts that were of the "Christian" faith as well, weren't their? As far as it being a step backwards to the "darkest period in European History", if you're talking about the Vikings then you're a little late. Many of the Vikings in the 1000AD period had converted to Christianity, heck, Lief Erickson was a Christian. Asatru even pre-dates the Roman occupation of Europe.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:55:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By CNS_Hit:
I think there is an Ass er two on this site



That has never built one orphanage to help children in its entire existence?

One that has never operated a school, college, university, or any sort of center for higher education?

One that have never organized food relief to help feed a single human being?

One that has never added one iota to the advancement of civilization in the Western World?

One that lacks any distinction or history that would recommend it as a belief system of any possible improvement in the human condition?

Eric The(Honest)Hun



So, for my religion to be credible I must first build an orphangae and feed the hungry? Basically, if I'm a Satanist, but I build a school and an orphanage and feed some hungry folks you're going to cut me a break? HA! And you will claim that the Vikings never added one iota of advancement to the civilization of the western world? Evidence leads many to believe they were HERE hundreds of years before Columbus, but hey, that's not alot. Our days of the week are mostly named for these people of Norse lore, but that's a insignifigant impact on the world. I could continue but I'm sure your high school teachings of Norse mythology covered it all. Go read a book on Vikings and get back to me on that whole "never contributed to civilized western society" thing.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:56:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By ilikelegs:
Can I just have my own fucken tree to hug?
Thats all I ask for is my own fucken tree.

xzodus.com/gifs/shutithippy.gif



Guess you missed this part:

DON'T YOU WORSHIP STONES AND TREES AND IDOLS?

No. These objects are not Gods, so we don't worship them. We do sometimes use these items as reminders of a God or Goddess, and we believe they can become "charged" with a certain aspect of the divine energy, but we would never confuse them with the actual deities.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:59:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:59:07 PM EST
Sounds interesting, but I prefer my mutt religion.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:00:40 PM EST
Oh, and here's one you'll really like, of course I've felt this way all of my life but it may be news to you so here goes:

DOES ASATRU HAVE A HOLY BOOK, LIKE THE BIBLE?

No. There are written sources which are useful to us because they contain much of our sacred lore in the form of myths and examples of right conduct, but we do not accept them as infallible or inspired documents. Any religion which does this is deceiving its members about the purity and precision of the written word. The various competing factions of Middle Eastern religions are proof of this. Their conflicting interpretations can not all be correct!

There are two real sources of holy truth, and neither expresses itself to us in words. One is the universe around us, which is a manifestation of the underlying divine essence. The other is the universe within us, passed down from our ancestors as instinct, emotion, innate predispositions, and perhaps even racial memory. By combining these sources of internal and external wisdom with the literature left us by our ancestors, we arrive at religious truths. This living spiritual guidance is better than any dusty, dogmatic "holy book", whose writings are often so ambiguous that even clerical scholars disagree and whose interpretations change with the politics of the times.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:03:11 PM EST
Mythology may, in a real sense, be defined as other people's religion. And religion may, in a sense, be understood as a popular misunderstanding of mythology.

Mythology is a system of images that endows the mind and the sentiments with a sense of participation in a field of meaning. The different mythologies define the possible meanings of a person's experience in terms of the knowledge of the historical period, as well as the psychological impact of this knowledge diffused through sociological structures on the complex and psychosomatic system known as the human being.

In traditional mythology, or, if you like, traditional religious system, the imagery and the rituals through which that imagery is integrated into a person's life are presented authoritatively through parents or religious evangelization and the individual is expected to experience the meaning and the sentiments intended.

If, as has happened in the contemporary world, all of the backgrounds of the images of our religious heritage have been transformed, as occurs when we find ourselves in a world of machines rather than in a world of pastoral life, these changed images really cannot and do not communicate the feelings, the sentiments, and the meanings that they did to the people in the world in which these images were developed.

A system of mythological symbols only works if it operates in the fields of a community of people who have essentially analogous experiences, or to put it another way, if they share the same realm of experience.

How, in the contemporary period, can we evoke the imagery that communicates the most profound and most richly developed sense of experiencing life? These images must point past themselves to that ultimate truth which must be told: that life does not have any one absolutely fixed meaning. These images must point past all meanings give, beyond all definitions and relationships, to that really ineffable mystery that is just the existence, the being of ourselves and of our world. If we give that mystery and exact meaning we diminish the experience of its real depth. But when a poet carries the mind into a context of meanings and then pitches it past those, one knows that marvelous rapture that comes from going past all categories of definition. Here we sense the function of metaphor that allows us to make a journey we could not otherwise make, past all categories of definition.


Joseph Campbell

And don't think for a moment that this doesn't apply to Christianity simply because it employs the word "mythology."
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:04:16 PM EST
Sounds somewhat like the Akashik (sp?) records. Okay, I'll stop posting one-sentence posts now. See?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:06:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By TNFrank:
Guess ya'll didn't read this part:

HOW DOES ASATRU DIFFER FROM OTHER RELIGIONS?
Asatru is unlike the better-known religions in many ways. Some of these are:

We are polytheistic. That is, we believe in a number of deities, including Goddesses as well as Gods. We do not accept the idea of "original sin", the notion that we are tainted from birth and intrinsically bad, as does Christianity. Thus, we do not need "saving".

The Middle Eastern religions teach either a hatred of other religions or a duty to convert others, often by force. They have often practiced these beliefs with cruel brutality.

We do not claim to be a universal religion or a faith for all of humankind. In fact, we don't think such a thing is possible or desirable. The different branches of humanity have different ways of looking at the world, each of which is valid for them. It is only right that they have different religions, which of course they do.





You've been in this RELIGION for about 15 seconds, and now its "We beleive..."

It took me most of my life to accept God's plan for me.

Sounds like a cult. I give it a week before they ask for a large sum of money to
"PROVE" that your faithful and that money does not rule you.

Be careful.

The reason its gone? This is the FORD PINTO of religions. Seemed like a good Idea at the time.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:10:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 8:12:24 PM EST by TNFrank]

Originally Posted By azcopwannabee:

Originally Posted By TNFrank:
Guess ya'll didn't read this part:

HOW DOES ASATRU DIFFER FROM OTHER RELIGIONS?
Asatru is unlike the better-known religions in many ways. Some of these are:

We are polytheistic. That is, we believe in a number of deities, including Goddesses as well as Gods. We do not accept the idea of "original sin", the notion that we are tainted from birth and intrinsically bad, as does Christianity. Thus, we do not need "saving".

The Middle Eastern religions teach either a hatred of other religions or a duty to convert others, often by force. They have often practiced these beliefs with cruel brutality.

We do not claim to be a universal religion or a faith for all of humankind. In fact, we don't think such a thing is possible or desirable. The different branches of humanity have different ways of looking at the world, each of which is valid for them. It is only right that they have different religions, which of course they do.





You've been in this RELIGION for about 15 seconds, and now its "We beleive..."

It took me most of my life to accept God's plan for me.

Sounds like a cult. I give it a week before they ask for a large sum of money to
"PROVE" that your faithful and that money does not rule you.

Be careful.
The reason its gone? This is the FORD PINTO of religions. Seemed like a good Idea at the time.



No, I've felt this way my entire life, I've just found out what it's called as of late. As far as being a "cult" there is no offical body that heads this religion so no, it's not a cult. In fact, if I can get 3 people in my area together I can head my own "Kinder" and petetion for recognition to the Allience. Here's a good web site for more info. I'm getting tired of using cut and paste.
www.asatru.org/

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:13:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By azcopwannabee:

Originally Posted By TNFrank:
Guess ya'll didn't read this part:

HOW DOES ASATRU DIFFER FROM OTHER RELIGIONS?
Asatru is unlike the better-known religions in many ways. Some of these are:

We are polytheistic. That is, we believe in a number of deities, including Goddesses as well as Gods. We do not accept the idea of "original sin", the notion that we are tainted from birth and intrinsically bad, as does Christianity. Thus, we do not need "saving".

The Middle Eastern religions teach either a hatred of other religions or a duty to convert others, often by force. They have often practiced these beliefs with cruel brutality.

We do not claim to be a universal religion or a faith for all of humankind. In fact, we don't think such a thing is possible or desirable. The different branches of humanity have different ways of looking at the world, each of which is valid for them. It is only right that they have different religions, which of course they do.





You've been in this RELIGION for about 15 seconds, and now its "We beleive..."

It took me most of my life to accept God's plan for me.

Sounds like a cult. I give it a week before they ask for a large sum of money to
"PROVE" that your faithful and that money does not rule you.

Be careful.

The reason its gone? This is the FORD PINTO of religions. Seemed like a good Idea at the time.


I don't think you understand a few things. He's not joining PTL or anything. He's not watching that freaky chick with the pink hair on TBN. No one has asked him for any money.

He's found this system on his own. He's found a system which speaks to him. He doesn't necessarily have to find a group of people to join. He doesn't even need to practice it. He's found something which defines that which he already knew and couldn't explain quite as well as this system. He can take comfort that he's not alone. Someone out there has already known this stuff and he's not nuts (so to speak). Kudos to him, I say!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:16:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 8:24:44 PM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:24:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 8:26:34 PM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:27:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
So, the greatest culture that could be said to have been embued with Asatru, abandoned it for.... Christianity?
Cool!
Yey, Jesus!
Eric The(Historical)Hun



It was either that or be tortured to death for their "Pagan" believes. Spanish Inquisition anyone? Christians have had a long history of killing people that they couldn't convert, same as the Muslims. Hmm, Christians, Muslims, Middle Eastern, seems that there's a pattern in there somewhere.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:44:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By TNFrank:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
So, the greatest culture that could be said to have been embued with Asatru, abandoned it for.... Christianity?
Cool!
Yey, Jesus!
Eric The(Historical)Hun



It was either that or be tortured to death for their "Pagan" believes. Spanish Inquisition anyone? Christians have had a long history of killing people that they couldn't convert, same as the Muslims. Hmm, Christians, Muslims, Middle Eastern, seems that there's a pattern in there somewhere.


Gotta love Irenaeus...

wordiq.com
The word "heresy" comes from the Greek ÉøÉ«ÉœÉ?É–É«V, hairesis (from ÉøÉ«ÉœÉ?ÉÕÉ ÉøÉ«, haireomai, "choose"), which means either a choice of beliefs or a faction of dissident believers. It was given wide currency by Irenaeus in his tract Contra haeresis to descibe and discredit his opponents in the early Christian Church. He described his own position as orthodox (from ortho- "straight" + doxa "thinking") and his position eventually evolved into the position of the early Roman Catholic Church.
...............

In the early church, heresies were sometimes determined by a council of bishops, or ecumenical council, such as the First Council of Nicaea. The orthodox position was established at the council, and all who failed to adhere to it would thereafter be considered heretics. The church had little power to actually punish heretics in the early years, other than by excommunication, a spiritual punishment. To those who accepted it, an excommunication was the worst form of punishment possible, as it separated the individual from the body of Christ, his Church, and prevented salvation. Excommunication, or even the threat of excommunication, was enough to convince many a heretic to renounce his views. Priscillian achieved the distinction of becoming the first Christian burned alive for heresy in 385 at Treves.

In later years, the Church instituted the Inquisition, an official body charged with the suppression of heresy. The Inquisition was active in several nations of Europe, particularly where it had fervent support from the civil authority. The Albigensian Crusade (1209-1229) was part of the Roman Catholic Church's efforts to crush the Cathars. It is linked to the movement now known as the Medieval Inquisition. The Spanish Inquisition was particularly brutal in its methods, which included the burning at the stake of many heretics. However, it was initiated and substantially controlled by King Ferdinand of Spain rather than the Church; King Ferdinand used political leverage to obtain the Church's tacit approval.

Perhaps the last person to be burned alive at the stake on orders from Rome was Giordano Bruno, executed in 1600 for a collection of heretical beliefs including Copernicanism and (probably more important) an unlimited universe with innumerable inhabited worlds.

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:46:15 PM EST
Worth posting again

"I don't think you understand a few things. He's not joining PTL or anything. He's not watching that freaky chick with the pink hair on TBN. No one has asked him for any money.

He's found this system on his own. He's found a system which speaks to him. He doesn't necessarily have to find a group of people to join. He doesn't even need to practice it. He's found something which defines that which he already knew and couldn't explain quite as well as this system. He can take comfort that he's not alone. Someone out there has already known this stuff and he's not nuts (so to speak). Kudos to him, I say!"
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:46:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 8:49:30 PM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:50:02 PM EST
In no particular order:
Asatru
Astarte
Asherah
Ashteroth­
Ishtar
Isus
estrus
Ostara
Est­er
Eostre
Easter

Lots of cultures, lots of years, lots of commonality


Occam/Ocham's razor applied here might suggest this is the one true path?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:57:43 PM EST
"How much good can be traced to that occurrence?"
Can you say 9, Sept. 2001? If there'd never been Christians and Muslims then we'd not have had 9/11 or the war that followed. More crap has been stirred up because of the religions of the Middle East then you'd care to shake a stick at. Buddism, Taoism, Shintoism, all the other "isms" combined haven't shead one tenth of the blood that the religions of the Middle East has shead.
And another thing while we're on the subject. Your Christian God must be Bi-Polar or something because if you compare the way that he is in the Old Testement to the way that he is in the New Testement something really strange is going on there. In the OT he's having his chosen people, the Jews, kill everything in site, even women and childern, heck, even the animals that were taken were killed. In the NT he does a total about face and starts talking about "love and peace". It's almost like it's not the same god or something. And just give a thought to your OT YHVH and all of the animals that had their throats cut and were bled out to apease his anger every year. Sounds kind of "Pagan" to me.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 9:11:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By CNS_Hit:
I think there is an Ass er two on this site

Where's The Sarge?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 9:14:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 9:19:53 PM EST

And one of the 'isms' you left out, atheism, was surely the direct cause of the greatest number of murders in the annals of human history.



I know this guy on another forum who spouts that religion is the direct cause of the greatest number of murders in the annals of human history. I'm half tempted to go to that forum and post some of his stuff for you. He's an atheist, by the way.

You're both wrong, of course, but that's beside the point.
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