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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/5/2006 6:44:14 PM EDT
I seen a picture today from Iraq, and its of an Army soldier with a 1st Marine Division patch on his right shoulder. I was wondering, what are soldiers doing with Marine patches on their sleeves? I have another question, why dont Marines wear patches like the Army? They have them, they just dont wear them. I have always wondered that so any help would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:55:42 PM EDT
I'm not sure, but he could have been a former Marine turned army.

It might signify the unit he last did combat with.

(I forgot which sleeve is which)
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:56:56 PM EDT
pics would be helpful if you could find some
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:00:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 7:05:39 PM EDT by USMC88-93]
Most likely he is an Army soldier attached to the Marine unit for operational purposes and as a result being in the Army he would wear the patch of the unit he is attached to (Even if that patch happened to be a marine unit.)

And the Marine Corps just doesnt see the need to put all the unit and orginazational crap all over the uniform. It was blasphemy when we had to finally put nametapes on the utility uniform. The USMC with the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor should have remained sufficient.

PS Do a search on the subject in the Archives I believe this subjuct was discussed recently by a Former Marine now in the Army that wanted to know if he would be authorized to wear the 1st Mar Div patch since he was once in it. He could not since he was not in the Army when the patch was authorized.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:00:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:02:22 PM EDT
if you were in an army unit that went into combat under the jurisdiction of the marines, ie 1st brigade 1st id when they went to oif worked under the marines in ramadi, you are authorized to wear that marine division patch on you uniform as a former wartime service patch.

the stupid part of that is that if you went to combat with the marines as a marine and then get otu and join the army you cannot wear the patch, because you were not in the army when you earned it.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:02:59 PM EDT
Army units that were attatched to the First Marine Divison did a good enough job with the Marines that the Marines requested to the Sec Army that those Army units be allowed to wear the First Marine Division patch as their combat patch. That permission was granted, so they are allowed to wear that patch instead of the one they would normally wear.

I have no idea why the Marines have patches they can't wear, nor why they don't wear patches, but I'm sure they have a reason.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:03:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 7:44:12 AM EDT by Hoplite]
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:03:59 PM EDT
When I was in the Guard during the late 80's, there was a guy who wore a 1st Marine Airwing "combat patch". He was in the USMC in Vietnam. I had my doubts about it being authorized but it was the NG and back then, they still did things their own way.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:14:29 PM EDT
It was probably the 1st Infantry Division Patch ( The Big Red One )
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:19:47 PM EDT
A unit patch on the right sholder of a Army uniform is a "combat" unit patch. The unit patch on the left sholder is his/ her current unit.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:22:50 PM EDT
I'm a former Marine, and if I remember my Corps history correctly, those division patches were never "official" anyway.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:25:38 PM EDT
Soldiers who served with the Marines during the seige of Fallujah are authorized to wear the 1st Marine Division patch... period!

It is NOT the Big Red 1 patch!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:56:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JackBurton:
Soldiers who served with the Marines during the seige of Fallujah are authorized to wear the 1st Marine Division patch... period!

It is NOT the Big Red 1 patch!



How do you know that the particular soldier the author is talking about is NOT wearing a Big Red 1 patch? Were you there to see THAT particular soldier? The author makes NO statement that says if he knew or didn't know of THAT soldier served with the Marines during the siege of Fallujah, so, there can be no conclusion without knowing more... "PERIOD"...

A piccy will be necessary to finally make this determination.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:06:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:21:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JackBurton:
Soldiers who served with the Marines during the seige of Fallujah are authorized to wear the 1st Marine Division patch... period!

It is NOT the Big Red 1 patch!



really? has this happened before in the past conflicts??
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:58:08 PM EDT
My friend was in Ramadi last year with 2ID. He said he was authorized (?) to wear some Marine patch if he wanted to since they worked with them so much. I'm not 100% clear on what he said, but it sounds similar to some of what has been written above.

Btw, I don't think he wears the patch.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:00:47 AM EDT
This is the first time that the Army has allowed the wear of USMC unit patches. Anyone wearing them before was in violation of AR670-1, the regulation of the wear and appearance of uniforms.

While Marines like to brag that the US Marines tape is all they need, they forget to mention that they are a pretty small force, with only three or four divisions TOTAL, to include their Reserve, while the Army has currently ten Active divisions, a couple separate brigades, and the separate cav regiments, as well as the command, and training units. Plus the reserve and guard units.

It does seem sort of dumb that a former Marine can't wear his Marine unit patch as a combat patch if he switches to the Army, but a Soldier that was right next to him in that battle can. But it's because the Marines don't wear patches at all. If the Marines were to wear patches, and "combat patches," I'm certain it would be allowed.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:08:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 12:10:08 AM EDT by DVCAPI]

Originally Posted By inferno715:
My friend was in Ramadi last year with 2ID. He said he was authorized (?) to wear some Marine patch if he wanted to since they worked with them so much. I'm not 100% clear on what he said, but it sounds similar to some of what has been written above.

Btw, I don't think he wears the patch.



If I was still in the Army and authorized to wear the 1st Marine Div combat patch I would because of the rarity of it.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:40:05 AM EDT
Probably 15-20 soldiers here in our battalion wear it from previous service.

Most of my company meets the requirement for wearing 3rd Marine Division from this deployment if they felt like asking the USMC to draft the paperwork. I don't think anybody has bothered however.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:58:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 1:01:26 AM EDT by dc306]
My former Army Platoon Sergeant in 1989 was a Vietnam Vet, Marine Force Recon and absolutely wore his gold wings and divers helmet insignia on his Army uniform. If memory serves, he was in Vietnam in 1969-1970 and came into the Army in 1973 after flipping burgers didn't cut it for him in the soft civilian life. Good guy, I still remember him to this day.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:04:33 AM EDT
There was a soldier i served with in my first unit that wore
a 1st MARDiv patch on the right.

AFAIK it was authorized after DS if you were OPCON
to the Marines.

Similarly, if a Soldier, say, from 1st ID that is OPCON to
say...2nd ID, they have a choice as to which patch to wear.
This used to be true when I was in at least, as a number of
guys I knew from 8th ID were OPCON to 1st AD, I believe, and
they chose to wear 8th ID patches, becasue the unit was stood down right after the war.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:12:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 1:20:30 AM EDT
I didn't even know Marines wore patches...
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:43:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 4:43:34 AM EDT by USMC88-93]

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I didn't even know Marines wore patches...




They dont, except avation units. Pilots wear their squadron patches on their flight suits.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:57:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC88-93:

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I didn't even know Marines wore patches...




They dont, except avation units. Pilots wear their squadron patches on their flight suits.



Correct, but not complete. Pilots, enlisted aircrew, and maintenance personnel all wear squadron patches on our organizational issue uniforms (flight suits and coveralls). It should be emphasized that we do not wear that on our personal uniforms, and to an extent, we are not even allowed to wear those same organizational uniforms away from the flight line.

Here is my last squadrons patch (I'm now in a HQ element):
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:01:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GySgtD:

Originally Posted By USMC88-93:

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I didn't even know Marines wore patches...




They dont, except avation units. Pilots wear their squadron patches on their flight suits.



Correct, but not complete. Pilots, enlisted aircrew, and maintenance personnel all wear squadron patches on our organizational issue uniforms (flight suits and coveralls). It should be emphasized that we do not wear that on our personal uniforms, and to an extent, we are not even allowed to wear those same organizational uniforms away from the flight line.

Here is my last squadrons patch (I'm now in a HQ element):
www.3maw.usmc.mil/mag16/hmh466/Images/hmh466.gif



Not to hijack, but was HMH-466 originally at MCAS Tustin? I ws there from 89-93

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:04:36 AM EDT
I've seen other branches wearing Army patches. Mainly Air Force.. and I want to say they were filling some sort of combat operations role, like PJ's attached to a unit or something to that effect.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:04:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 5:05:53 AM EDT by GySgtD]
"Not to hijack, but was HMH-466 originally at MCAS Tustin? I ws there from 89-93"



Yes, and so was I.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:04:56 AM EDT
My unit was authorized to wear the 1st marine division patch. That was before I got here though.

There was a marine on these boards a while back that deployed with the Marines to Iraq, and some time later joined a component of the Army, and was asking if he could wear the 1st marine division patch as his combat patch and discovered that it wasn't authorized.

Basically, you cant earn a combat patch as a marine, period.

If I end up switching over to the Air Force, I'll be sure to wear my 101st combat patch, as well as my air assault wings.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:06:02 AM EDT


1st Gulf War - US Air Force Wx personnel wore combat and divisional patches of the US Army units they where assigned to. Don't know if the practice still happens but back in 1991 I confused a lot of Air Force guys walking into the BX w/screaming eagles on both sides of my shoulders and the ever growing assortment of Air Force pacthes on my BDU's.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:15:55 AM EDT
Here at FOB AR-Ramadi, I see soldiers with the 2nd MarDiv patch all the time. As the 1st MarDiv comes into place, they will be able to wear the 1stMarDiv patch. It is my understanding that the Army authorizes two patches :one for current unit serving (right shoulder) and one for the unit one saw combat with (left shoudler). Since the current batch of soldiers are serving with 2MarDiv (1st MarDiv shortly), they are authorized to wear the patch. (I've a rather nice looking, blonde, female captain (medical corps) sitting next to me who has just explained the whole situation.)
Camp Ramadi is fairly interesting: a 50/50 USMC/ARMY mix. I'm part of a Navy FRSS (surgical) attached to an Army medical company.
Good day today: no friendly casualties!
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:46:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:48:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NavyDoc1:
I've a rather nice looking, blonde, female captain (medical corps) sitting next to me who has just explained the whole situation.



I think I can speak for the rest of us when I say....
WE WANT PICS!
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 10:22:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I've seen other branches wearing Army patches. Mainly Air Force.. and I want to say they were filling some sort of combat operations role, like PJ's attached to a unit or something to that effect.



Correct. Our USAF FACs on the ground in their HMMWVs wore our brigade patch as they were permanently assigned to the Army organisation.

There was some dispute over the length of time the Marine patch could be worn. Talking to some of the lads in my battalion who went to Fallujah, they said that the authorisation was theater-specific: i.e. upon return to the US they would have to remove the 1MARDIV patch and replace with an Army one.

That doesn't sound right to me though. He may have been the victim of misinformation. Our Bde HQ was very cold on people wearing combat patches for any unit other than the Bde, regardless of who we actually worked for.

NTM
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 10:42:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC88-93:
Most likely he is an Army soldier attached to the Marine unit for operational purposes and as a result being in the Army he would wear the patch of the unit he is attached to (Even if that patch happened to be a marine unit.)

And the Marine Corps just doesnt see the need to put all the unit and orginazational crap all over the uniform. It was blasphemy when we had to finally put nametapes on the utility uniform. The USMC with the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor should have remained sufficient.

PS Do a search on the subject in the Archives I believe this subjuct was discussed recently by a Former Marine now in the Army that wanted to know if he would be authorized to wear the 1st Mar Div patch since he was once in it. He could not since he was not in the Army when the patch was authorized.

That was me.

Due to the regulation, I had a 1st MarDiv patch sewn into my patrol cap. It got spotted by my platoon sergeant, who spoke with the CO about it and told me to "wear it on your sleeve if you want to, we'll back you up".
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 10:49:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 10:52:24 AM EDT by 53vortec]

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
This is the first time that the Army has allowed the wear of USMC unit patches. Anyone wearing them before was in violation of AR670-1, the regulation of the wear and appearance of uniforms.

While Marines like to brag that the US Marines tape is all they need, they forget to mention that they are a pretty small force, with only three or four divisions TOTAL, to include their Reserve, while the Army has currently ten Active divisions, a couple separate brigades, and the separate cav regiments, as well as the command, and training units. Plus the reserve and guard units.

It does seem sort of dumb that a former Marine can't wear his Marine unit patch as a combat patch if he switches to the Army, but a Soldier that was right next to him in that battle can. But it's because the Marines don't wear patches at all. If the Marines were to wear patches, and "combat patches," I'm certain it would be allowed.



Negative. The Marine combat patch (aka Guadalcanal patch or 1st Marine Division patch) that soldiers are wearing is the Marine combat patch originally worn by US Army soldiers who served under Marine command in Guadalcanal in WWII.

The patch worn today is that same patch - a diamond with the number "1" (for the 1st Marine Division) in the center, and "Guadalcanal" written vertically down the center of the numeral. There are stars in the field around the star (I forget left or right, been a while since I really looked at one) that I believe signify the four landings performed by the Army under Marine command at Guadalcanal.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 10:57:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NavyDoc1:
Here at FOB AR-Ramadi, I see soldiers with the 2nd MarDiv patch all the time. As the 1st MarDiv comes into place, they will be able to wear the 1stMarDiv patch. It is my understanding that the Army authorizes two patches :one for current unit serving (right shoulder) and one for the unit one saw combat with (left shoudler). Since the current batch of soldiers are serving with 2MarDiv (1st MarDiv shortly), they are authorized to wear the patch. (I've a rather nice looking, blonde, female captain (medical corps) sitting next to me who has just explained the whole situation.)
Camp Ramadi is fairly interesting: a 50/50 USMC/ARMY mix. I'm part of a Navy FRSS (surgical) attached to an Army medical company.
Good day today: no friendly casualties!



WRONG, left sholder=current unit- right sholder=combat unit. Now they can be the same patch on both sholders too, if your current unit is the same as your combat unit.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 11:07:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 53vortec:

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
This is the first time that the Army has allowed the wear of USMC unit patches. Anyone wearing them before was in violation of AR670-1, the regulation of the wear and appearance of uniforms.

While Marines like to brag that the US Marines tape is all they need, they forget to mention that they are a pretty small force, with only three or four divisions TOTAL, to include their Reserve, while the Army has currently ten Active divisions, a couple separate brigades, and the separate cav regiments, as well as the command, and training units. Plus the reserve and guard units.

It does seem sort of dumb that a former Marine can't wear his Marine unit patch as a combat patch if he switches to the Army, but a Soldier that was right next to him in that battle can. But it's because the Marines don't wear patches at all. If the Marines were to wear patches, and "combat patches," I'm certain it would be allowed.



Negative. The Marine combat patch (aka Guadalcanal patch or 1st Marine Division patch) that soldiers are wearing is the Marine combat patch originally worn by US Army soldiers who served under Marine command in Guadalcanal in WWII.
The patch worn today is that same patch - a diamond with the number "1" (for the 1st Marine Division) in the center, and "Guadalcanal" written vertically down the center of the numeral. There are stars in the field around the star (I forget left or right, been a while since I really looked at one) that I believe signify the four landings performed by the Army under Marine command at Guadalcanal.

Wrong, It is the actual patch of the 1st Marine Division. It was authorized for wear by Marines until 1947.

Here's the full story: www.gnt.net/~jrube/patch.htm

There are 5 stars around it.

It's the Southern Cross, an constellation visable from the islands in the Pacific, and elsewhere in the Southern Hemisphere.

Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:31:55 PM EDT
Ok I found the picture but im not sure how to put it up here. i've never done it before
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:34:36 PM EDT
Put the url for the image into the popup that you get when you click on the image button.

The image button looks like a picture of a mountain.
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