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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 5/5/2004 8:31:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 8:58:08 AM EDT by Matt_B]
Article 15-6 Investigation of the 500th Military Police Bridage

BTW, I found the link on FARK.com which lead me to The Smoking Gun. I hope I haven't opened up a Pandora's box.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:36:44 AM EDT
Secret/no foreign access? Where did you get this?
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:38:44 AM EDT
Never mind, coffee hasn't kicked in yet.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:44:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 8:45:33 AM EDT by eodtech2000]

Originally Posted By tjmz:
Secret/no foreign access? Where did you get this?



Not Secret anymore!

Well, someone in the investigation has leaked this, I am going to give it a read!
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:16:11 AM EDT
This document is a good read and MI is also implicated!!!!


I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included
the following acts:
a. Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;
b. Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;
c. Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for
photographing;
d. Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several
days at a time;
e. Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;
f. Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being
photographed and videotaped;

g. Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;
h. Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and
attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;
i. Writing “I am a Rapest” (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly
raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;
j. Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a
female Soldier pose for a picture;
k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;
l. Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten
detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;
m. Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:17:44 AM EDT
Whoever leaked that 's ass is grass...
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:19:50 AM EDT
Too many pages, don't really care anyways!
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:01:23 AM EDT
Just finished reading the whole document, pages 36 and onward are EYE-OPENING! I think the Army is going to have to add another leadership FM just on these dumbf#$%s, "800th MP Brigade, lessons on the lack of leadership"

This document I believe was intentionally leaked to counter BG Karpinski's claims on TV the other day on how it was all MI's fault! Just read pages 36 onward as I am at a loss of words to describe this clusterfuck!


Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:50:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:


k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;




That is RAPE and many of the "patriots" here seem to think that this behavior is like what happens in fraternities and summer camp.

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

I would like to hear the rationalizations by the "patriots" about this. When nypd cops did the same thing to a prisoner it resulted in their criminal trials.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:13:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:22:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 11:22:36 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Well, let's suppose that this was all part of a super-secret CIA interrogation project (yeah, in conjunction with some Army reserve MPs).

If that was the case, then those who photographed the "interrogations", and released the photos to the public should be charged with espionage.
It's one thing to mishandle Top-Secret info, but to record and release said info?
That's a major crime.

Or perhaps, it's what I suspect.
A bunch of undisciplined, poorly trained, poorly led shitbird soldiers, doing what comes natural.

I agree with Mr. Imbroglio, there's no defending this behavior.
Hard Labor.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:28:21 AM EDT
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:32:59 AM EDT
Maybe I'm behind the times or something, but I heard on Neal Boortz today that there was talk of impeaching Bush for this issue, or making Rumsfield resign. Now, while dispicable as this is (if true), wouldn't this still be an internal army matter that is resolved through the army's courts? On what grounds would Congress be able to do that?
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:42:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.


You should care.
I has nothing to dio with the alleged harm done to the Iraqi prisoners (not much).
The harm done, was to the overall war effort, and the image of the American Soldier, here and abroad.

To film these things, and make them public is a SERIOUS OpSec violation.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:45:01 AM EDT
A Pentagon spokesman referred to the guards as "the six morons who lost the war." Indeed this may be true but it points out the incredibly fragile psyche of the Arab world that they are prepared to believe that this will equate to decades of murder and worse by an "elected" President that so far overshadows these incidents it is beyond comprehension. Maybe it is the "he's our bastard leader" mentality that says that for Arabs to abuse each other is kosher but let an infidel do it and the heavens have fallen. And maybe it is that incredibly fragile psyche that makes them opt for Islamo-Fascism or an iron-fisted dictator. They know or suspect they are weak individually and incapable of self-government.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:46:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.



People in fraternities participate in these acts in their OWN FREE WILL. I would like to know what type of hazings your have seen that included RAPE and forced SODOMY.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:48:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.


You should care.
I has nothing to dio with the alleged harm done to the Iraqi prisoners (not much).
The harm done, was to the overall war effort, and the image of the American Soldier, here and abroad.

To film these things, and make them public is a SERIOUS OpSec violation.



I agree and thats what I meant by "backlash" in my last sentence.
I would prosecute the offenders for security violations long before worrying about what happened to the cockroaches. I would think they could be defined as traitors or charged with some form of espionage or giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
I am afraid this will spawn many more jihadist cockroaches as well, which IMO, will be on the traitors and CBS's hands.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:50:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:52:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.



Well the Military is NOT FRAT HOUSE! The United States Army is not a bunch of Orderless Brigands doing what they f'ing please for their amusement.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:52:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.



People in fraternities participate in these acts in their OWN FREE WILL. I would like to know what type of hazings your have seen that included RAPE and forced SODOMY.



Back in the early eighties, the high school I attended was busted for allowing senior hazing of new football team members.
This included physical and mental abuse as well as sodomy with broomsticks.
The new kids had NO IDEA this was going to happen and that's how it came out and those involved were prosecuted.
I have also read MANY accounts of hazings where rape, sodomy, physical and mental abuse are standard.
You need to get out more imbro.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:55:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.



Well the Military is NOT FRAT HOUSE! The United States Army is not a bunch of Orderless Brigands doing what they f'ing please for their amusement.



No shit ???........really ??
I said I don't condone the actions but rather I was comparing said actions to those of our enemy.
The differences are quite clear.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:59:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.



People in fraternities participate in these acts in their OWN FREE WILL. I would like to know what type of hazings your have seen that included RAPE and forced SODOMY.



Back in the early eighties, the high school I attended was busted for allowing senior hazing of new football team members.
This included physical and mental abuse as well as sodomy with broomsticks.
The new kids had NO IDEA this was going to happen and that's how it came out and those involved were prosecuted.
I have also read MANY accounts of hazings where rape, sodomy, physical and mental abuse are standard.
You need to get out more imbro.



I need to get out more and do what? Hang around sexual predators so I can become as blase about rape as yourself?
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:14:36 PM EDT
Its amazing (not really)BG Karpinski how she ever attained the rank she did!


1. (U) That BG Janis L. Karpinski, Commander, 800th MP Brigade be Relieved
from Command and given a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand for the
following acts which have been previously referred to in the aforementioned
findings:
• Failing to ensure that MP Soldiers at theater-level detention facilities
throughout Iraq had appropriate SOPs for dealing with detainees and that
Commanders and Soldiers had read, understood, and would adhere to these
SOPs.
• Failing to ensure that MP Soldiers in the 800th MP Brigade knew, understood,
and adhered to the protections afforded to detainees in the Geneva Convention
Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War.
• Making material misrepresentations to the Investigation Team as to the
frequency of her visits to her subordinate commands.
• Failing to obey an order from the CFLCC Commander, LTG McKiernan,
regarding the withholding of disciplinary authority for Officer and Senior
Noncommissioned Officer misconduct.
• Failing to take appropriate action regarding the ineffectiveness of a
subordinate Commander, LTC (P) Jerry Phillabaum.
• Failing to take appropriate action regarding the ineffectiveness of numerous
members of her Brigade Staff including her XO, S-1, S-3, and S-4.
• Failing to properly ensure the results and recommendations of the AARs and
numerous 15-6 Investigation reports on escapes and shootings (over a period
of several months) were properly disseminated to, and understood by,
subordinate commanders.
• Failing to ensure and enforce basic Soldier standards throughout her
command.
• Failing to establish a Brigade METL.
• Failing to establish basic proficiency in assigned tasks for Soldiers
throughout the 800th MP Brigade.
• Failing to ensure that numerous and reported accountability lapses at detention
facilities throughout Iraq were corrected.

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:54:58 PM EDT
WHY IN THE HELL HASN'T A MOD/ STAFF SHIT CANNED THIS THREAD?
LINK TO CLASSIFIED INFO IS IN THIS THREAD AND NOONE GIVES A SHIT?


PEOPLE PISSED AND MOANED ABOUT DEFEATING M1A1 ARMOR AND HOW THAT WAS GIVING AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY, BUT THIS IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE.


DELETE THIS THREAD NOW!

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:01:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 1:02:52 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:02:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Yea it was wrong and we should be better than the cockroaches we are fighting, blah, blah, blah......
BUT......I have seen A LOT WORSE in fraternity and sports hazings.
Lets see here........We got caught humiliating some captured cockroaches.
Our esteemed enemy openly kills, mutilates, tortures and EXECUTES our prisoners and willingly kills innocent civilians to suit their tastes.
Other than the backlash that will come from this, Fuck Them !! I couldn't care less.


You should care.
I has nothing to dio with the alleged harm done to the Iraqi prisoners (not much).
The harm done, was to the overall war effort, and the image of the American Soldier, here and abroad.

To film these things, and make them public is a SERIOUS OpSec violation.



There's a lot of interservice animosity over the things that have happened last month. The Army's pissed at the USMC for ho it handled Fallujah, the USMC is pissed at all the shit caused by the Army's managment of the Abu Ghaib prison. Sad to see.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
WHY IN THE HELL HASN'T A MOD/ STAFF SHIT CANNED THIS THREAD?
LINK TO CLASSIFIED INFO IS IN THIS THREAD AND NOONE GIVES A SHIT?


PEOPLE PISSED AND MOANED ABOUT DEFEATING M1A1 ARMOR AND HOW THAT WAS GIVING AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY, BUT THIS IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE.


DELETE THIS THREAD NOW!


This report was released by the government to the public (or so I heard) anyway it's on smoking gun, NPR'S website etc



In the Washington Post or Times too,
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:06:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Rip_Roarin_Wacko:
WHY IN THE HELL HASN'T A MOD/ STAFF SHIT CANNED THIS THREAD?
LINK TO CLASSIFIED INFO IS IN THIS THREAD AND NOONE GIVES A SHIT?


PEOPLE PISSED AND MOANED ABOUT DEFEATING M1A1 ARMOR AND HOW THAT WAS GIVING AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY, BUT THIS IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE.


DELETE THIS THREAD NOW!


This report was released by the government to the public (or so I heard) anyway it's on smoking gun, NPR'S website etc



In the Washington Post or Times too,



You are correct. This report is also being hosted on NPR's site as well.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:31:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:


k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;




That is RAPE and many of the "patriots" here seem to think that this behavior is like what happens in fraternities and summer camp.

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

I would like to hear the rationalizations by the "patriots" about this. When nypd cops did the same thing to a prisoner it resulted in their criminal trials.



You make the asinine assumption that simply because someone supports the military and is in favor of the war, that means they support the abuses of a few individuals. It's not your first asinine assumption and I think we can all rest assured that it won't be your last.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:44:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
A Pentagon spokesman referred to the guards as "the six morons who lost the war." .



This unfortuately may be all too true, we have won the battles, but this may undermine and lose us the peace… it's kicking up a real shitstorm in the middle east.

Andy
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:46:47 PM EDT
All the military Police involved in these "war crimes against the Iraqi people" should be taken out into the street and kicked,shot,mutilated,burned,draged behind cars and beheaded to death before hanging them upside down on a bridge wjhile al jizzzzera films and the Iraqis cheer and laugh.Then maybe the world would see us as being "civilized" like the rest of the fucking a-rab world.


Lets hunt down and kill all US servicemen who have been accused of anything approaching this,and kill them too. In fact lets all take our whiney, fat, liberal asses over there and second guess our soldiers and be real armchair warriors.Maybe it will discourage the rest of the a-rab terrorists who caused 911,and then they will know that we are like little girls when it comes to killing terrorist asses and would really like to kiss their asses and suck their dicks to make up for all the "inhumanity"we have caused in some POW prison to a bunch of murdering asswipes who should have been shoot in the head long before now.


Oh, the inhumanity of it.I can feel the purple piss squirting from my liberal heart just thinking about Sadamms murdering Fadakheen soldiers brutally attacked by some 5'tall MP kunt,while they were naked.How will we ever be able to lift our heads in the United Nations again.Ohhhhhhh woe is we.The moral highground is lost.Bring in the Lawyers and start the million dollar P.I.lawsuites.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:48:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:


k. A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;




That is RAPE and many of the "patriots" here seem to think that this behavior is like what happens in fraternities and summer camp.

g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

I would like to hear the rationalizations by the "patriots" about this. When nypd cops did the same thing to a prisoner it resulted in their criminal trials.



You make the asinine assumption that simply because someone supports the military and is in favor of the war, that means they support the abuses of a few individuals. It's not your first asinine assumption and I think we can all rest assured that it won't be your last.



You make your own an asinine assumption and are attempting to assign it to me. How refreshing. NOT.
You are still my friend though.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:49:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dinkydow:
Bring in the Lawyers and start the million dollar P.I.lawsuites.



They already are… they are already offering compensation payments to released Iraqi detainees.

Andy
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:53:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
There's a lot of interservice animosity over the things that have happened last month.
The Army's pissed at the USMC for how it handled Fallujah

What have they to be pissed about?
The Marines foughthard, fought well, and comported themselves with honor.

, the USMC is pissed at all the shit caused by the Army's managment of the Abu Ghaib prison.

Most Marines know that the Army is too big to prevent the occaisional bad apple syndrome (Abu Ghaib, the 507th...)
I do think, that the Army SHOULD be very ashamed of how their soldiers in that prison performed, and were led.

Sad to see.

It's sad that the incompetence and lack of discipline of a FEW, will lead to the deaths of many.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 3:20:49 PM EDT
Anything that pisses off A-rabs must be good.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 3:27:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:

Originally Posted By raven:
There's a lot of interservice animosity over the things that have happened last month.
The Army's pissed at the USMC for how it handled Fallujah

What have they to be pissed about?
The Marines foughthard, fought well, and comported themselves with honor.

, the USMC is pissed at all the shit caused by the Army's managment of the Abu Ghaib prison.

Most Marines know that the Army is too big to prevent the occaisional bad apple syndrome (Abu Ghaib, the 507th...)
I do think, that the Army SHOULD be very ashamed of how their soldiers in that prison performed, and were led.

Sad to see.

It's sad that the incompetence and lack of discipline of a FEW, will lead to the deaths of many.



Nicely put as usual, Cincinnatus!

Well, here are some personnel and units under the 800th MP Brigade who had LEADERSHIP and were PROFESSIONALS!


Throughout the investigation, we observed many individual Soldiers and some
subordinate units under the 800th MP Brigade that overcame significant obstacles,
persevered in extremely poor conditions, and upheld the Army Values. We
discovered numerous examples of Soldiers and Sailors taking the initiative in the
absence of leadership and accomplishing their assigned tasks.


a. (U) The 744th MP Battalion, commanded by LTC Dennis McGlone,
efficiently operated the HVD Detention Facility at Camp Cropper and met
mission requirements with little to no guidance from the 800th MP Brigade.
The unit was disciplined, proficient, and appeared to understand their basic
tasks.

b. (U) The 530th MP Battalion, commanded by LTC Stephen J. Novotny,
effectively maintained the MEK Detention Facility at Camp Ashraf. His
Soldiers were proficient in their individual tasks and adapted well to this
highly unique and non-doctrinal operation.

c. (U) The 165th MI Battalion excelled in providing perimeter security and force
protection at Abu Ghraib (BCCF). LTC Robert P. Walters, Jr., demanded
standards be enforced and worked endlessly to improve discipline throughout
the FOB.

4. (U) The individual Soldiers and Sailors that we observed and believe should be
favorably noted include:

a. (U) Master-at-Arms First Class William J. Kimbro, US Navy Dog Handler,
knew his duties and refused to participate in improper interrogations despite
significant pressure from the MI personnel at Abu Ghraib.

b. (U) SPC Joseph M. Darby, 372nd MP Company discovered evidence of abuse
and turned it over to military law enforcement.

c. (U) 1LT David O. Sutton, 229th MP Company, took immediate action and
stopped an abuse, then reported the incident to the chain of command.

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 3:41:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Imbroglio:
You make your own an asinine assumption and are attempting to assign it to me.



Incorrect. I assumed nothing other than you meant what you wrote...though I know, with you, that's sometimes a dangerous assumption.
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