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Posted: 10/27/2004 7:30:16 PM EST
I was told by an Army Ranger on leave from Afganistan that they have been told by the Army that the 1911-45 Auto will be issued again in the future. Front runner to get contract is an American Company.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:30:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:43:25 PM EST
After 93 years the 1911 and .45 ACP combo shall be crowned king once again.

Stuff that in your Plastic Crock and smoke it.

-Nugz
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:44:00 PM EST
Giddy Up. Hell yea.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:44:36 PM EST
Im guessing....Springfield.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:45:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nugz:
After 93 years the 1911 and .45 ACP combo shall be crowned king once again.

Stuff that in your Plastic Crock and smoke it.

-Nugz


Special Forces still carry the 45. Look for them in Lumpy's posts of pics
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:46:23 PM EST
Personally for me, I don't believe it. The USA military has only a few working 1911s. When the Beretta 92F was being adopted, most of the 1911s were worn out beyond easy and inexpensive repair.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:49:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By copenhagen:
I was told by an Army Ranger on leave from Afganistan that they have been told by the Army that the 1911-45 Auto will be issued again in the future. Front runner to get contract is an American Company.



Could SIG's new 1911 "Granite" pistol be in the running?
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:51:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:52:14 PM EST
I hope this turns out to be the truth. This Ranger I was talking about has been in the Army for several enlistments. Sniper qualified. Taught Sniper School at Fort Benning for two years. I dont really know exactly where he got the info but he knew the leading companys name for contract. 45 auto would be a step up from the 9mm round.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:52:32 PM EST
Not at $1,000 a pop.....unfortunatly.

I bet it has a rail though.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:54:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By brouhaha:

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Originally Posted By copenhagen:
I was told by an Army Ranger on leave from Afganistan that they have been told by the Army that the 1911-45 Auto will be issued again in the future. Front runner to get contract is an American Company.



Could SIG's new 1911 "Granite" pistol be in the running?



I bet the Mk 23 Mod 1 will be. It's a USP Compact 45 with a threaded barrel.



I know the Mk 23 is quite large to be a standard sidearm. So the Mod 1 is thinner and smaller?
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:57:06 PM EST
I would hope Colt or Kimber would get the nod if this ever happened.
A better chance is for HK and the USP series. HK seems to have the inside track with the DOD right now with the XM8 and other stuff, so they might push the USPs.
I think the USP would make a great U.S. sidearm.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:57:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 7:58:55 PM EST by Dave_A]
Rumor mill...

Fortunately, .45ACP is DEAD, GONE, NOT COMING BACK...

For the same reasons there will be NO 6.8mm in general issue, you will never see either the 1911 or the .45ACP cartridge returned to general issue...

Geeze, what's next, a reccommendation to re-issue 45-70 govt?

P.S. If Springfield ever gets a US Govt contract (and they have never had one, as the 'Springfield' we know has NOTHING to do with the former US arsenal besides the name), then we can give up all hope wrt procurement... Might as well buy SW-5s or V-15s
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:06:03 PM EST
I heard that they are bringing back the "Lazer Tag" guns and putting bigger Li-ion batteries in them for more power. Supposidly you can melt someones brain with it, thats why our troops will have to wear the special helmets.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:08:30 PM EST
so you heard the rumors about a 45-70 ar upper i see, supposed to be issued this year to the uber tactical types, secret stuff yunno
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:12:18 PM EST
Special Ops, Force Recon and the Marine Expeditionary Force have Had the MEUSOC for a few years now. I beleive Kimber is the referenced front runner or it may well be Springfield Armory the U.S. Army's former largest WELFARE CONTRACT. As I understand it the weapon in question is an expanded capaity 1911. You will need the extra capaciy because far less recruits now come to the service with any weapons handling experience, compared to generations past. The Berretta was adopted supposedly so wemon and weaker recruits could handle it more easily, the real reason I was told had something to do with keeping Army and Air bases in Italy!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:13:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:
I heard that they are bringing back the "Lazer Tag" guns and putting bigger Li-ion batteries in them for more power. Supposidly you can melt someones brain with it, thats why our troops will have to wear the special helmets.

img-srv.everestwebworks.com/w2/Pictures/My%20Product%20Images/1022260.1/LT_Helmet.jpg




Oh man I had a lazer tag helmet just like that back in the 80's. It's been forever since I've seen one of those.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:13:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mattl:
Special Ops, Force Recon and the Marine Expeditionary Force have Had the MEUSOC for a few years now. I beleive Kimber is the referenced front runner or it may well be Springfield Armory the U.S. Army's former largest WELFARE CONTRACT. As I understand it the weapon in question is an expanded capaity 1911. You will need the extra capaciy because far less recruits now come to the service with any weapons handling experience, compared to generations past. The Berretta was adopted supposedly so wemon and weaker recruits could handle it more easily, the real reason I was told had something to do with keeping Army and Air bases in Italy!!!!!!!!



I've hear that as well. If it weren't for political considerations, the standard sidearm would likely have been a SIG 226.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:14:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
I would hope Colt or Kimber would get the nod if this ever happened.



I think Kimber is making 1911 patterns for the marine corp There was a article on it in american rifleman a couple months back.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:15:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 8:21:15 PM EST by Lee0302]

I was told by an Army Ranger on leave from Afganistan that they have been told by the Army that the 1911-45 Auto will be issued again in the future. Front runner to get contract is an American Company.


Bullshit. Lets see some documentation, purchase order, something official.

Some updated 1911 alternatives: Sig P220, HK USP 45, Glock 21.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:16:28 PM EST
Everyone in my unit that carries an M9 just bitches about it. We'd all love to see the 1911 come back.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:17:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:18:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
I would hope Colt or Kimber would get the nod if this ever happened.



I think Kimber is making 1911 patterns for the marine corp There was a article on it in american rifleman a couple months back.



Yup, I meant for general issue though.
Thats the DET1 pistol and Kimber has the contract for those. Kimber is coming out with a copy for us civvies in a month or so as well.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:19:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lee0302:
Bullshit. Lets see some documentation, purchase order, something official.



Specify who exactly your saying is full of shit??? Please
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:19:38 PM EST
He was blowing smoke.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:19:45 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:21:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By gaspain:
Im guessing....Springfield.



No no no...Auto Ordnance



N-n-n-o, wait....Colt reproduction WWI models.


No, wait.....I just have gas.



And I was blaming the dog at my feet.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:21:44 PM EST
As much as I'd like to see the Colt .45 become the standard US military sidearm again, it's not going to happen. None of our UN/NATO allies use .45ACP. The reason we switched over to 9mm was higher magazine capacity and compatibility with our allies in the field. If the Americans run out of ammo, but the British reinforcements arrive with their own supply, there will be plenty of 5.56 and 9mm ammo with the limeys, but no .45ACP.

If I ever end up in Iraq, I'd like to take a 1911 with me, but a 9mm would be my primary sidearm just so I could carry more ammo into battle and take rounds off of my buddies when I ran low.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:22:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 8:24:39 PM EST by JackBurton]

Originally Posted By gaspain:
I heard that they are bringing back the "Lazer Tag" guns and putting bigger Li-ion batteries in them for more power. Supposidly you can melt someones brain with it, thats why our troops will have to wear the special helmets.

img-srv.everestwebworks.com/w2/Pictures/My%20Product%20Images/1022260.1/LT_Helmet.jpg



Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:22:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
As much as I'd like to see the Colt .45 become the standard US military sidearm again, it's not going to happen. None of our UN/NATO allies use .45ACP. The reason we switched over to 9mm was higher magazine capacity and compatibility with our allies in the field. If the Americans run out of ammo, but the British reinforcements arrive with their own supply, there will be plenty of 5.56 and 9mm ammo with the limeys, but no .45ACP.

If I ever end up in Iraq, I'd like to take a 1911 with me, but a 9mm would be my primary sidearm just so I could carry more ammo into battle and take rounds off of my buddies when I ran low.



Umm, allies? In case ya missed it, most of our allies right now still issue the Makarov
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:24:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:26:38 PM EST
This one's gonna be all over the map.

If the M9 9mm would've been a SIG, that would've been OK? M11 is a SIG, right?

The .45's comin' back...and HK is the next issue rifle? Wonder what brand the .45's will be?

For political reasons, we should tell foreign gun makers to go fuck themselves and we'll pull our bases outta their backyards ( ALL YOUR BASE BELONG TO US ).

The 1911 platform is to be the next U.S. .45? Would the newer DA versions be better?


I'm just throwing out some ideas and comments I thought of while reading the previous posts.
Who knows WHAT will happen or what we'll get --- YET.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:26:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
He was blowing smoke.




Nah. If he's a sniper, he knows what he's talking about when it comes to weapons. Every one The Neutral Observer has ever met has been an expert, and by that The Neutral Observer means that they knew more than the engineers who designed the weapons.

Whether it's for general issue or just as a specialized weapon is another question.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:28:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 8:33:25 PM EST by Lee0302]

Special Ops, Force Recon and the Marine Expeditionary Force have Had the MEUSOC for a few years now. I beleive Kimber is the referenced front runner or it may well be Springfield Armory the U.S. Army's former largest WELFARE CONTRACT. As I understand it the weapon in question is an expanded capaity 1911. You will need the extra capaciy because far less recruits now come to the service with any weapons handling experience, compared to generations past. The Berretta was adopted supposedly so wemon and weaker recruits could handle it more easily, the real reason I was told had something to do with keeping Army and Air bases in Italy!!!!!!!!


Only Force Recon Marines assigned to the Direct Action Platoon and MARSOC Det 1 are issued the MEUSOC 1911s. The Marine Expeditionary Force is a Marine Infantry division augmented with a Marine Air Wing, Force Serve Support Group, and a Headquarters element. Sorry, the Marine Corps has very little in the way of a ninja force. The rest of us get issued the wonderful M-9 Beretta.

By the way, the Marine Air Ground Task Force is composed of four elements (infantry, air, support, & headquarters) and in three sizes: the smallest being the Marine Expeditionary Unit based on an infantry battalion, the Marine Expeditionary Brigade based on an infantry regiment, and the largest being the Marine Expeditionary Force based on an infantry division.

Enjoy!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:29:24 PM EST
I think they would have to change the current rules for it to happen. One of the requirements are the ability to perform a second strike. If you pull the trigger and it clicks, you can pull it again (DA).

My bet would be HK. the USP or maybe the new P2000
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:04:06 PM EST
Auto Ordinance was the company mentioned.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:04:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 9:32:55 PM EST by Nugz]

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By dskeet:
Everyone in my unit that carries an M9 just bitches about it. We'd all love to see the 1911 come back.



If it was the 1911's I saw in the Army, I would just as soon be issued a small sack of rocks, my unit had a few of htem, and they were so worn out that they could not be safely fired. When you did fire them they jammed and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.



I highly doubt the US ARMED FORCES would contract NEW worn out 1911's that come from the factory in various states of disrepair.

I would look for any contracted 1911's to be closer in quality to the "Match Grade" based units used by various units related to Special Operations Command (SOCOM). The sidearms currently favored by these units include the H&K Mark 23, Sig 226, and the Springfield Match Grade based 1911.

DISCLAIMER: What I have just said is pure speculation on my behalf. I just watched Modern Marvels: Terror Tech this evening and those were the sidearms discussed by the operators interviewed for the show.

The Springfield 1911 they featured was a CQB version equipped with an "alternative force block" which allowed the operator to use it as a contact weapon by jamming it into the enemies body and firing or simply using it to shove a threat back with the muzzle. Interesting stuff.

-Nugz

ETA: LINK TO THE ALTERNATIVE FORCE BLOCK
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:11:03 PM EST
If America would only annex its Allies, we could tell 'em 'what it is' and 'make it so'.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:14:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By drew5337:
Not at $1,000 a pop.....unfortunatly.

I bet it has a rail though.



Remember this is what the market price is. I have a feeling these $1000 1911s are a lot cheaper to produce. After all it's pretty much a 1911 design.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:15:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By BusMaster007:
If America would only annex its Allies, we could tell 'em 'what it is' and 'make it so'.



How does the saying go?

"Lead, follow or get out of the way."

America is the leader in this case.

-Nugz

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:18:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nugz:

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By dskeet:
Everyone in my unit that carries an M9 just bitches about it. We'd all love to see the 1911 come back.



If it was the 1911's I saw in the Army, I would just as soon be issued a small sack of rocks, my unit had a few of htem, and they were so worn out that they could not be safely fired. When you did fire them they jammed and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.



I highly doubt the US ARMED FORCES would contract NEW worn out 1911's that come from the factory in various states of disrepair.

I would look for any contracted 1911's to be closer in quality to the "Match Grade" based units used by various units related to Special Operations Command (SOCOM). The sidearms currently favored by these units include the H&K Mark 23, Sig 226, and the Springfield Match Grade based 1911. The Springfield 1911 they featured was a CQB version equipped with an "alternative force block" which allowed the operator to use it as a contact weapon by jamming it into the enemies body and firing or simply using it to shove a threat back with the muzzle. Interesting stuff.


DISCLAIMER: What I have just said is pure speculation on my behalf. I just watched Modern Marvels: Terror Tech this evening and those were the sidearms discussed by the operators interviewed for the show.

-Nugz

ETA: LINK TO THE ALTERNATIVE FORCE BLOCK



Thanks for that link and info!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:28:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By NightWatchman:


Thanks for that link and info!



My pleasure.

-Nugz
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:36:38 PM EST
No no, they are going to issue USP Tacticals to go with their M-8s
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 9:43:51 PM EST
Just for the sake of debate....



In The cities, like Baghdad, how much room clearing goes on? Is it as much as I would think? (a lot)
Is a carbine preferable in such a situation, or is a handgun, like a 1911 more efficient for mobility?
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 11:17:17 PM EST
doubtfully.....

unless its only for selected folks--i.e specaial forces, etts; no regular grunt will ever be re-issued a .45 1911a1 while we are part of NATO

stupid poitics
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 11:18:49 PM EST
doubtfully.....

unless its only for selected folks--i.e specaial forces, etts; no regular grunt will ever be re-issued a .45 1911a1 while we are part of NATO

stupid poitics


hopefully it WONT be springfiled; that company DONT even make any of thier guns in the US of A!!
they are all made overseas now
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:15:01 AM EST
Maybe Neutral Observer`s friend was referring to the new MEU(SOC) pistol trial? As most of us know, Kimber recieved the no bid contract for the ICQB pistol for the USMC`s Det 1 for Socom. Presently multiple bidders are awaiting the results of the trials to replace the current inventory of old 1911A1s. From what I`ve read on the internet, the specs called for a 1911 type pistol with an integral rail. Colt, Kimber, and Springfield were among the bidders, IIRC.
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:20:09 AM EST
They are only doing it -----

because someone saw a Navy Seal carrying one ---

Link Posted: 10/28/2004 5:32:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/28/2004 8:13:00 AM EST
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