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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 12/22/2003 7:04:02 AM EST
Armed F-16 Now in the skies patrolling NYC, I think they are expecting something similar to 9-11
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:06:28 AM EST
link? pic?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:09:12 AM EST
There go my teeth fillings again! Noisy things aren't they?

Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:09:48 AM EST
Air Force or National Guard?
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:42:59 AM EST
I am willing to bet that F-16 and other planes are always in the sky around NYC and DC ever since 9-11

SGtar15
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:49:09 AM EST
Where are they orbiting?  I haven't seen them yet and I have 240 degree unobstructed view from Brooklyn to Tappan Zee.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:03:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By peekay:
link? pic?
View Quote


U.S. officials told NBC News that Air Force fighter jets would remain on constant patrol over New York City, Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles for the duration of the orange alert, which they said was expected to continue through January. Random patrols were to be conducted over other U.S. cities and anti-aircraft missile batteries would once more be deployed around Washington, D.C., said the officials, speaking on condition of anonymity.

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[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3776558/]MSNBC[/url]
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:03:53 AM EST
NORAD has had planes on random CAP (Combat Air Patrol) over selected cities in the US since 9/11.  The majority of them are ANG squadrons put on higher states of readiness since the original attacks.  Most of them are F-16s, but there are a few squadrons w/F15Cs. The NYC CAPs, IIRC, come from Otis ANGB in Mass., they are F-15Cs there.

On 9/11, there were 14 planes (all on ground alert, none in the air) to defend the entire continental US.  Now, the number of planes has gone way up from there,

Sgtar15, for approx a year after 9/11 there were permanent CAPs over DC and NYC, but they became random too just a couple of months ago.  Now, with a hightened terrorist threat, the plan under Operation NOBLE EAGLE is to have permanent CAPs over DC and NYC again, as well as increased random CAPs over the rest of the country, and more aircraft on higher states of ground alert.  Not very often heard or seen are the tanker and AWACS orbits to support the fighters, which also increased at higher states of readiness.

I was stationed at NORAD headquarters for 9/11, and spent the next three months putting together the long-term plan for air defense of North America at the NORAD Battlestaff.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:11:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I am willing to bet that F-16 and other planes are always in the sky around NYC and DC ever since 9-11

SGtar15
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Haven't been on patrol around DC for some time.  I live under their "racetrack" and I haven't felt them YET.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 8:52:01 AM EST
How can you tell it's armed? What color are the indicator bands on the weapons? Does it have any ammunition for the gun?

People freak out over the stupidest stuff...

We send aircraft on training sorties all the stinking time with INERT weapons on them.

Chill out, and let us do our job.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:14:46 AM EST
Prolly F15s from Otis, my College Roomate is a Lt.Col. commanding a squadron or some other such unit there.  They fly these sorts of missions all the time.  Nothing to see here, move along please.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:15:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 9:26:08 AM EST by limaxray]
Originally Posted By W-W:
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I am willing to bet that F-16 and other planes are always in the sky around NYC and DC ever since 9-11

SGtar15
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Haven't been on patrol around DC for some time.  I live under their "racetrack" and I haven't felt them YET.
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When they're flying their CAPs, they stay pretty high (20-30K ft).  That gets them above the majority of local traffic (wouldn't want an air-to-air) and allows them quicker response if they have to move to another location.  For example, if the Denver CAP needs to respond to something over Colorado Springs, it's easier to accelerate and head in the right direction (especially if they have to break Mach 1) at 30K than if they are down around 10K ft.  

LD--live missiles are normally painted white or grey, inert are painted blue.  Here's a photo of F16s loaded with war shots doing Noble Eagle patrol over the Pentagon:

[img]http://www.af.mil/media/photodb/web/web_011205_F-3869J-023.jpg[/img]

Here's a hi-res version, it's like 2x the size of the screen:

[url]http://www.af.mil/media/photodb/photos/011205_F-3869J-023.jpg[/url]

Edited to add:  As for the cannon, I'm not sure what the day-to-day status is, but I recall being told they aren't loaded until needed. But, I do know that the ones doing CAP are fully armed, including cannon.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:20:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By StariVojnik:
There go my teeth fillings again! Noisy things aren't they?

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WUSS!! Try standing directly under 2 B-1 Bombers @ 500 ft climbing out in full burn!
That is loud, and quite awsome.

This Centinnial of flight moment brought to you by the Belfry Express.  "When it has to get there in the most retarded way possible, send it Belfry Express"
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:23:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
Chill out, and let us do our job.
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Huh? [>:/]
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:28:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
How can you tell it's armed? What color are the indicator bands on the weapons? Does it have any ammunition for the gun?

People freak out over the stupidest stuff...

We send aircraft on training sorties all the stinking time with INERT weapons on them.

Chill out, and let us do our job.
View Quote


Go gather your intelligence before speaking.  YES, they are armed, because they've been patroling the skies since 9/11.  THIS IS NOTHING NEW!  They've been around for quite awhile and will be around until the muslim menace is destroyed.  

I remember the summer after 9/11, a jet did a low altitude fly by on the city and woke most of Manhattan up.  It was funny only after you found out there was nothing happening and the city wasn't under attack.  They usually fly too high to even see, but we always hear them.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:44:59 AM EST
Great! If you're on a hijacked airplane, you're fvcked! If the terrorists don't do you in, the USAF or ANG will.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:54:21 AM EST

What would you rather have happen? Let it fly into a building? [rolleyes]

Bob


Originally Posted By warlord:
Great! If you're on a hijacked airplane, you're fvcked! If the terrorists don't do you in, the USAF or ANG will.
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 9:54:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:

Chill out, and let us do our job.
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  You should not have the job you have...
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 10:29:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 10:31:58 AM EST by TheRealSundance]
Originally Posted By W-W:
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
I am willing to bet that F-16 and other planes are always in the sky around NYC and DC ever since 9-11

SGtar15
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Haven't been on patrol around DC for some time.  I live under their "racetrack" and I haven't felt them YET.
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They fly CAPS around DC everyday.  Andrew's is busier than ever launching armed ANG F-16's and Naval reserved FA-18's.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 10:32:24 AM EST
I think the ONG/ANG at Toledo Express has there F16s out on the tarmac.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 10:40:48 AM EST
When I was out at lunch time, we heard a fighter jet fly over the west suburbs of Chicago.  We couldn't see the palne because it is over cast, but the noise was not from a cemmercial jet.
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 10:50:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By Belfry_Express:
Originally Posted By StariVojnik:
There go my teeth fillings again! Noisy things aren't they?

View Quote

WUSS!! Try standing directly under 2 B-1 Bombers @ 500 ft climbing out in full burn!
That is loud, and quite awsome.

This Centinnial of flight moment brought to you by the Belfry Express.  "When it has to get there in the most retarded way possible, send it Belfry Express"
View Quote


Wuss? I think you have some bats in your belfry...  For us city dwellers, just the sight and sound of fighter planes is something we rarely see flying over head, especially 4 F16 units...and that to me is quite exhilarating!  I never seen a B1 flying over the city...it would probably shatter all the windows in mid-town.  [:)]    
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 11:16:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2003 11:39:30 AM EST by PaDanby]
The F-16s can be from either active, Reserve or Guard (NJ and Mass IIRC) Squadrons.  They rotate around.

NJ Air Guard has 16s at Atlantic City.  My son is down at Shaw AFB, an Egress Tech on 16's, and their birds have been used up there and over DC and other mid-Atlantic stations in the near past.  Staged from Atlantic City in the past. He however is getting mightily bored.  It appears he will stay the entire war in South Carolina.  (Although fine by me and his Ma and Grandma, he would at least like to shake some sand out of his boots.)  Talked to him last night and his Squadrons aren't doing anything right now.  Lot's of people out for Holidays and he's still bored lack of work.  

There's been at least minimum CAP up since 9/11.

Fresh update (fielding calls about the Central CA earthquake from friends and relatives in other areas  San Simeon area a 6.5, knocked a few old downtown buildings down in Paso Robles for those of you that spent time at Ft. Ord, Hunter-Ligget, or Camp Roberts.)  As of 15 minutes ago.  All the Shaw F-16s were on the ground. Probably the "Green Mountain Boys" from Vermont Air Guard.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 8:18:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By limaxray:

I was stationed at NORAD headquarters for 9/11, and spent the next three months putting together the long-term plan for air defense of North America at the NORAD Battlestaff.
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Thats some great info limaxray.  Thanks for the input.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 8:38:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
How can you tell it's armed? What color are the indicator bands on the weapons? Does it have any ammunition for the gun?

People freak out over the stupidest stuff...

We send aircraft on training sorties all the stinking time with INERT weapons on them.

Chill out, and let us do our job.
View Quote

I once spoke to a f16 pilot, and he says that flying & manuvering with a full battle load really tough, so they practice all the time with dummies to simulate the weight of real bombs & rockets.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 8:42:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
How can you tell it's armed? What color are the indicator bands on the weapons? Does it have any ammunition for the gun?

People freak out over the stupidest stuff...

We send aircraft on training sorties all the stinking time with INERT weapons on them.

Chill out, and let us do our job.
View Quote



Your job.......What do you do exactly?


Link Posted: 12/23/2003 8:43:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 8:46:12 AM EST by DzlBenz]
Originally Posted By bear3351:
[red]Armed[/red] F-16 Now in the skies patrolling NYC, I think they are expecting something similar to 9-11
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Well, it'd be pretty silly to have [red]unarmed[/red] ones, now, wouldn't it?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 9:06:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By warlord:
Great! If you're on a hijacked airplane, you're fvcked! If the terrorists don't do you in, the USAF or ANG will.
View Quote


If you're on a hijacked plane, you should get up and beat them to death with your laptop, or your shoe, or the cane of the little old lady next to you...  

You get the idea now?  Don't MAKE the USAF/AFNG shoot your plane down.  Take it back.  I'm not going down with a fight... I don't know about the rest of you.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 9:14:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Alex_F:
You get the idea now?  Don't MAKE the USAF/AFNG shoot your plane down.  Take it back.  I'm not going down with a fight... I don't know about the rest of you.
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Indeed, the French have a phrase that fits...

"Pour encourage les Autres" or something similar.

I'm surprised I havent seen any air-rage victims beaten to death by passengers by now actually.

/Phil
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:14:03 AM EST
I was on a large Naval Air Station this am and they had more damn fighter planes on the tarmac than I can remember .  Not a good feeling.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:18:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By u-baddog:
I was on a large Naval Air Station this am and they had more damn fighter planes on the tarmac than I can remember .  Not a good feeling.
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Since you are in VA I would assume that was Oceana NAS?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 10:20:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By KY-Bob:

What would you rather have happen? Let it fly into a building? [rolleyes]

Bob


Originally Posted By warlord:
Great! If you're on a hijacked airplane, you're fvcked! If the terrorists don't do you in, the USAF or ANG will.
View Quote
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I agree with Bob and will add that your statement is moronic.

You are going to die either way.  Apparently, you would rather take a lot of other people on the ground along with you.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:21:20 PM EST
Lots of fighters on the ground is a good thing.  1.  Means the Squadron or Squadrons are home for Christmas.

2.  They didn't get tagged for any homeland CAP.

Me I tend to get nervous when there are extra armed people around, they either know what they are doing and that means there is something nasty around or maybe?? They don't know what they are doing and the innocent bystander role is available for me.

I'm not armed and out of the loop.  Sorry but the most of the last thirty years, when that was the situation, I was armed and in the loop.  Not being there makes me nervous, cuz I know what was happening the other times.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:40:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By AR_Rifle:
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
How can you tell it's armed? What color are the indicator bands on the weapons? Does it have any ammunition for the gun?

People freak out over the stupidest stuff...

We send aircraft on training sorties all the stinking time with INERT weapons on them.

Chill out, and let us do our job.
View Quote



Your job.......What do you do exactly?


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And how, exactly, are we preventing you from doing it?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:45:26 PM EST
Those planes are from the North Dakota ANG. Wonder why they are in Washington, deployed to areas where strikes are more likely to happen?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:58:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 1:01:15 PM EST by limaxray]
After 9/11, we took all the units tagged under the Unified Command Plan to provide support to CDRUSELEMNORAD (Commander, US Element, NORAD--NOT the same thing as CINCNORAD.  It's the same guy, but there's a legal difference in directing US forces) for Operation NOBLE EAGLE, CONUS air defense.  Those units, primarily ANG and some Reserve, have the PRIMARY mission of CONUS air Defense.

Earlier, I mentioned we only had 14 planes defending the country on 9/10/01.  In order to get full US coverage on 9/11 and after, it was easier to mobilize the units already tagged for this mission and deploy them to various airports around the country than to get another unit organized, trained and equipped for the same thing.

Therefore, rather than teach the 1st FW at Langley how to prep and spot a plane for ground alert, train the maintenance folks to do that, train the pilots for the CONUS air defense mission, the ground controllers at Langley how to interact with the FAA to get planes off the deck in a hurry, etc. (you get the idea), it was easier to send the Happy Hooligans to the East Coast to set up shop, and do their thing in just a couple of weeks.

Granted, I've been away from NORAD since Jun of 02, but as far as I know they (all the ANG squadrons) still have deployments of 4-5 aircraft all over the place to provide coverage.

Edited to add:  Crimson Tide, to answer your question directly--they are OVER Washington, not necessarily stationed there.  It doesn't take them long to fly from a base at, say, Chicago Int'l, do their CAP over DC, then fly back home.  They are directed by the NORAD battle staff at Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado as to when and where they do their CAPs.  And, yes, after the increase in terrorist threat level, they are doing constant CAPs over both DC and NYC.

Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:17:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 1:21:51 PM EST by billparadise]
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
What color are the indicator bands on the weapons?
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http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14014/css/14014_182.htm

edited to add:

in this pic www.af.mil/media/photodb/photos/011205_F-3869J-023.jpg from an earlier post if you look closely at the missile you will notice a yellow band near the middle (it has a live warhead) and 2 brown bands near the back (it has a live rocket motor). It is the real deal.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:32:01 PM EST
Yep, the missle in the pic is for reals, and not a dummy used for flying around for pratice. Can anybody tell what the name of missle it is?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:47:16 PM EST
The little missle is an Aim-9.

One time on a TDY me and 2 other crew chiefs successfully put one up on an F-15. We figured we seen the weapons troops do it thousands of times and it couldn't be that hard. It was just a dummy but we did it right, looking back we could have got in a sh*tload of trouble if the damned thing fell off.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 5:56:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By eswanson:
Originally Posted By AR_Rifle:
Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
How can you tell it's armed? What color are the indicator bands on the weapons? Does it have any ammunition for the gun?

People freak out over the stupidest stuff...

We send aircraft on training sorties all the stinking time with INERT weapons on them.

Chill out, and let us do our job.
View Quote



Your job.......What do you do exactly?


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And how, exactly, are we preventing you from doing it?
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Well, lapdance, we are waiting.  Who the fuck are you and who the hell is "we"?

How are we interfering?

I don't think we will get an answer from the troll.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:12:13 PM EST
Three different times today Army helicopters went flying past our office.

Usually this only happens a couple times a month.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:14:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By SS109:
Three different times today Army helicopters went flying past our office.

Usually this only happens a couple times a month.
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Santa escorts.[<|:d>]
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:14:34 PM EST
I think if they hijack an Air France plane, then we're fvcked.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:27:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Duffy:
I think if they hijack an Air France plane, then we're fvcked.
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Funny you said that.... My thoughts exactly.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 6:29:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Duffy:
I think if they hijack an Air France plane, then we're fvcked.
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Q: How can you tell the difference between a hijacker and an Air France flight attendant?

A: The hijacker isn't really all that rude.
Link Posted: 12/24/2003 1:13:23 AM EST
[LOLabove]    [ROFL2]
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