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Posted: 7/9/2001 9:02:53 AM EDT
I was reading the history of armalite and man at the beginning they where a good company with innovative firearm design and ideas and they developed quickly.. now the best they can come up with are blank firing devices, a remake of the AR-180, and bolt actions that are reminiscent of the AR-1. I can see Armalite in the near future re-releasing the AR-7 and producing lever actions as though the technology is something space age. see for yourself http://www.armalite.com/library/history/history.htm
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:16:45 AM EDT
Thems fightin words son. What has really changed in the last 20-30 years that has been inovative.Bringing back classics makes money.Ask the Italian gunmakers.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:21:32 AM EDT
HK used the AR-18 design to come up with an absolutely amazing rifle, the G36, while Armalite came out with a bolt action rifle.....
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:27:11 AM EDT
So there using the old AR18/AR180 design for a new rifle?sorry but to me the sight looks like a step backwards.Is this the one with it floating above the barrel? Not flaming just discussing.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:31:41 AM EDT
http://www.hkpro.com/G36.htm its something Armalite wishes they had the brains to come up with.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:46:49 AM EDT
New would sell too in this case.If they would or could let you buy it.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:57:44 AM EDT
Sure would be nice if they would license the G36, make it fit M16 mags. Yes, I would buy at least one.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 10:02:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 9:59:47 AM EDT by Scarecrow]
I have to wait tell fall to get my G36, If Armalite could come up with a rifle that isn't restricted or banned here in Canada is sure would be on my "to buy" list
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 10:13:14 AM EDT
Armalite is in the process of moving to a new and bigger building. My Armalite is a beautiful rifle, has always given me great satisfaction and extremely good service. Shoots anything I put through it and it's fit and finish are most desirable. Do you own one? I don't knock a product just to make noise. I am talking from personal experience. If you check the site out, there is fixable problems with most of the manufactures rifles new and old. I would not buy an AR unless it was an Armalite, not because the others are bad, but because I have had great luck with mine, why change?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 11:25:59 AM EDT
Don't blame them! Blame the '94 ban. Realistically, what motive do they have for producing something really slick under the current legal parameters. Even if they came up with something nice (new design, not resurection of an old) within the law, it would be pretty expensive to produce. Guys would start saying stuff like "Why pay for that when proven alternatives like the AR exist for less money?"
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 12:29:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:01:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: I was reading the history of armalite and man at the beginning they where a good company with innovative firearm design and ideas and they developed quickly.. now the best they can come up with are blank firing devices, a remake of the AR-180, and bolt actions that are reminiscent of the AR-1. I can see Armalite in the near future re-releasing the AR-7 and producing lever actions as though the technology is something space age. see for yourself http://www.armalite.com/library/history/history.htm
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Man, what is your deal? You probably have never owned an ArmaLite and know nothing about their products or their history. What have any of the AR makers come out with that is innovative in the last 30 years? The new 180 has a polymer lower. How's that for innovation. I have products by the original ArmaLite (AR180's) and products from the current ArmaLite/Eagle Arms, both postban and preban. They are top notch. First: They make the best damned AR on the market. Second: The re-introduction of the AR180 has been because many people begged them for years to come out with it. Third: The bolt action AR50 and AR30 are, again, the result of customer requests. Have any of the other AR makers come out with a completely different rifle lately. I don't mean adaptions of the AR15 to different configurations. The AR50 is very accurate and about half the price of most others. Fourth: I went to the address you posted and looked at the G36. It is by their own admission, a combination of AR18/180 technology and M16 technology. Again, by their own admission, nothing new, just evolution and copying other people's technology. Their claim of polymer use is not anymore than some people have now. And their claim of being more reliable than the M16/AR15 is just that, a claim. It has not been documented anywhere. They talk about polymer use, well the 180B has an entire lower that is polymer. This G36 has been around since the early 90's, so it is nothing new. It's cost to LE is $850 which means we would have to pay $1200 or more. Plus, this rifle (even in semiauto) would not be legal here due to the folding stock and other 'evil features'. What you are looking at is a rifle strictly for use by military and LE. You have no idea the cool stuff ArmaLite makes for LE and some military units. What you have done is compared apples and oranges because you don't have a clue. ArmaLite is innovative and is not focusing on just the AR type rifles, but is introducing new stuff that people want, unlike other AR makers. Besides, what the hell is wrong with bolt action? Everyone needs one or two to go with their ARs.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:12:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DriftPunch: Don't blame them! Blame the '94 ban. Realistically, what motive do they have for producing something really slick under the current legal parameters. Even if they came up with something nice (new design, not resurection of an old) within the law, it would be pretty expensive to produce. Guys would start saying stuff like "Why pay for that when proven alternatives like the AR exist for less money?"
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theres also that damn 89 import ban witch is why a aug is 4k insted or 1k like a AR
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:15:10 PM EDT
Right on, Paul-- Comparing "Armalite/Eagle Arms" to the original Armalite makes as much sense as comparing "Winchester/USRAC" to the original Winchester. They are *trademarks,* licensed to manufacturers and nothing more. I would be suprised if any of the designers currently at "Armalite" are holdovers from the Fairchild days. If the current armalite can produce a successful warmed-over AR-18 then good for Armalite. They are a civilian arms manufacturer catering to the civilian market (me). As for scintillating advances in small arms, HK tried that with the G-11, CAWS et al., and we do not see those advanced designs in production. Equally unsuccessful is Steyr's ACR. The G36 is an incremental improvement in small arms, and I don't really see how it is that much better than the Steyr AUG or Colt rifles. This may disappoint some, but I think that small arms development is going to slow for a good long while. No lasers or railguns, maybe not even caseless weapons. The advantages in killing aren't there. I think that goofy LandWarrior concept strongly suggests that we have run into a developmental wall in small arms-- designers are trying to advance the state of the art, but technology or military doctrine just isn't nearly there. Back in the mud-- does anyone have information on the status of the AN-94 Abakan rifle?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:23:03 PM EDT
Armalite is not Armalite, as Colt's is not Colt's (they're not even in their original building in Hartford any more). Winchester ceased being Winchester as under a previous poster's definition when they went bankrupt and were bought out by the Olin Corporation in the '30s. Remington ceased being Remington under this narrow definition when they went bankrupt during the nineteenth century. Smith and Wesson ceased being Smith and Wesson when the Wesson family sold them out during the '60s. That's an irrelevant point. This topic is pure-dee troll bait and needs to be locked [b][i]muy pronto!!![/i][/b]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 1:48:31 PM EDT
My future plans include another ArmaLite AR15 and I can't wait to get my hands on an AR30. Eddie
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:19:37 PM EDT
I like ArmaLite. I own a couple and will be purchasing a M15 National Match Upper in the near future. Their rifles won at Perry last year and that is good enough for me. They respond to their customers wants and needs as has been noted in previous posts. Their new camo rifles are an example of trying to please their customers and make money as well. From my perspective they have an excellent business plan and I will continue to support them.[smoke]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:31:06 PM EDT
Armalite isn't the same Armalite that was once an innovator in firearms design. Gene Stoner is dead. As far as new technology the AR-15 still makes us ga ga and its been around for over 40 years . Old design or not, I can't wait for my AR-180B to ship, but I guess I'll have to.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 2:46:30 PM EDT
Armalite isn`t making the mistake of the old Armalite. They`re making good products that sell. They introduce new products as demand and cash flow allow. What`s the point of making some gee whiz gun that doesn`t sell in a big government contract or the general civilian market?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 3:09:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 3:22:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 3:27:19 PM EDT
That new armalite is butt ugly. Tried a Cav Arms over the weekend....Most impressive !!!! [x]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 3:50:31 PM EDT
"going down the toilet?" A bit extreme, don't you think? A company that has the cojones to introduce a politically incorrect rifle like the AR180B is OK in my book. Plus, they make good stuff. I have an original 180 and a new AR10 and I am not selling either of them. I just got an AR17 shotgun, which also is pretty cool. I know, it's "old" ArmaLite vs. the new stuff, but I think both old and new are pretty cool and new is certainly not "going down the toilet." SW, now *they* have gone down the toilet. Hey garryowen I enjoyed handling the cav-15 at the show this weekend, but the silver Phillips-head screws have got to go! IMHO that is. Phillips head screws are for Ravens and Jennings. At least get something nice and black in there without a Phillips head.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 4:01:28 PM EDT
Ok people I'm not disputing quality, I own a Armalite lower on my ZM gun. I'm just saying that the time for armalite has come and gone.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 5:42:04 PM EDT
"the time for ArmaLite has come and gone." I pray, and you ought to also, that we don't start losing the ArmaLites, the Colts or the DPMS'.... If one of the "big 'uns" falls, then the rest will follow. Even the little ones...they are all here for us. If you don't like ArmaLite, don't buy it, don't look at it, don't read it. But, for Christ's sake don't wish it away. Lew(bet'cherassIshootEagles)Tippie[smash]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 6:37:15 PM EDT
Well said, Lew. Scarecrow - C'mon, man, get real!
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 6:58:15 PM EDT
I'm just stating a fact. Armalite is no longer a ground breaking company.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 7:14:23 PM EDT
I own a couple Armalites and they are great! The AR-10 is a fantastic weapon, and shoots well. Armalite has also found an innovative way to provide high-capacity magazines for their AR-10, by using converted M-14 magazines. Their guns are sturdy, well-made, and function without problems. Their customer service is also good, with knowledgeable, friendly, responsive people answering my questions whenever I call. I have ordered parts from them and received them promptly. What more can you ask of a company?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 7:40:32 PM EDT
Hey Scarecow, are you going to wait until someone comes up with a railgun that is man-portable. Get real, if you look at the entire firearms industry at a techonological view point, it is at a plateau. Unless, you can come up with a ground breaking idea. I would like to invest in it. Armalite is creating firearms that people have been asking about for years. I am happy that they have a copy of the original AR-10 and a updated AR-180 out on the marketplace. And I can't wait to get both of them.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 7:50:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 7:50:30 PM EDT by ArmaLite]
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 7:55:51 PM EDT
Nuff said. Are you getting scared Scarecrow?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:06:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:21:58 PM EDT
So what would you consider a ground breaking company? Colt? Bushmaster? What designs do you consider ground-breaking? Are you still upset because of the demise of the HK G11? Frankly, I am very glad to see ANY company taking the financial and legal risks to introduce new weapons (or new versions of old weapons). I am speaking of Robinson Armament and Armalite in particular. Speaking as a collector, I will go out of my way to reward enterprises like this for their boldness. The same old stuff gets pretty stale after awhile.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:22:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:49:18 PM EDT
Well said ArmaLite. When has the G36 been battle tested? I believe the last time the M16 was put into action(in the desert) it preformed extremely well. The M15 is a fantastic rifle. I have had no problems with mine and as for the design, it is still state of the art.
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 10:32:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 10:32:53 PM EDT by Scarecrow]
State of the art isn't 50yrs old. Even the US military did testing to see if it could get a new rifle with 100 improvements over the M16. they found many a good rifle but I don't think any reached 100 improvements. And Armalite has yet to hold any new military contracts. As for what I have done doesn't even makes sense in this topic, am I supposed to be a large arms manufacturer? am I in charge of anything involving the production or invention of firearms? No. And good for armalite to have nice people answering the consumer help line's, but that wasn't something that has to do with the topic I had brought up either. OH WOW A 40mm GRENADE LAUNCHER SHOOTING 308 BLANKS, DOES IT COME IN 20MM CANNON? And what does armalite have on the old chalk board? a potato launcher? common you have to make one if enough people ask! If you want my idea's first put a freaking mag on your 50cal, 2nd have a 37mm flare launcher in your accessories, 3rd bring back the chain feed for the AR10 or design one for the AR15, 4th How about bringing back the AR16? I'll take 3. PS: M15, the US military tested the G36 in the desert and it fired 25000 rounds without a malfunction, lets see a M16 do that, Hell lets see anything from armalite do that!
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 11:54:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2001 11:54:28 PM EDT by MatthewDaugherty]
I believe there was a test by the military recently that tested the M16 against many foreign battle rifles. The M16 did so well that they still consider it worthy of longer service. As for why Armalite does not have a military contract for M16s I don't know, but the winner usually goes to the lowest bidder. Maybe Armalite did not have the facilities to handle a large military contract. I love all of my Armalites. I feel Armalite will be around as long as our traitorous government allows us to buy beautiful weapons that Armalite has to offer. If Armalite is going down the toilet a lot of the other gun manufactures are already at the sewage facility. I think you should reconsider your views and buy a new Armalite and possibly we will forgive [O:)] you. Edited because I just saw you are from California. No new Ars for you, but you could send me the money and I'll buy one. I'll send pictures of her on a regular basis. No Slack!
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 12:03:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 12:17:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2001 12:15:49 AM EDT by GI_Brat]
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 12:24:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Jim Dandy: Armalite is not Armalite, as Colt's is not Colt's (they're not even in their original building in Hartford any more). Winchester ceased being Winchester as under a previous poster's definition when they went bankrupt and were bought out by the Olin Corporation in the '30s. Remington ceased being Remington under this narrow definition when they went bankrupt during the nineteenth century. Smith and Wesson ceased being Smith and Wesson when the Wesson family sold them out during the '60s. That's an irrelevant point. This topic is pure-dee troll bait and needs to be locked [b][i]muy pronto!!![/i][/b]
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Let's not get too carried away here. You have to admit that when all those other companies went through changes of ownership or restructuring there was quite a bit more transfered than a simple name as was the case when Eagle Arms purchased the ArmaLite name. Unlike the corporate evolutions of Colt, Remington, Winchester, or S&W, I don't believe that Eagle Arms obtained any patents, proprietary information, physical property/assetts, employees, etc. when they bought the rights to the ArmaLite name. There's quite a bit of difference in both the types and magnitudes of those transactions. I don't see why this thread has to be viewed as "troll bait", either. The guy is simply stating an opinion. If you happen to disagree, why not just say so and move on? As far as ArmaLite being innovative, I wish they would innovare some sort of normal looking rifle stock for the AR-50. If that thing looked more like a conventional rifle instead of being so damn goofy I'd have probably bought one by now.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 12:56:09 AM EDT
That G36 is one sweet rifle and the gas system is really great, just like the FAL. But, as far as what we would use one for, it doesn't make any difference because if I get a line on the bad guy carring the G36 before he gets a line on me, the end result is the same regardless of whether I'm using my AR15, or my AR7, which I still hold fond memories for.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 4:03:15 AM EDT
" THE ORIGINAL`S STILL THE BEST".......which one of the "big-uns" makes a 243 upper?.....[sniper]
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 5:10:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2001 5:09:22 AM EDT by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: Ok people I'm not disputing quality, I own a Armalite lower on my ZM gun. I'm just saying that the time for armalite has come and gone.
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Who the hell are you to decide that their time has come and gone? They have come out with more new products than any other AR maker. Who else makes a .308 or .243 AR style rifle? You won't give up will you. It's all about you.
Originally quote by Butkus51: That new armalite is butt ugly.
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You think it is ugly, Butkus? Wow, I would have never guessed.[:D]
Another goody by Scarecrow: And Armalite has yet to hold any new military contracts.
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Showing your ignorance some more. There are groups within the military that have specifically come to ArmaLite for their weapons. ArmaLite won't say who, but it is for real.
Originally posted by Boomer: . The guy is simply stating an opinion. If you happen to disagree, why not just say so and move on?
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He is not merely expressing his opinion, he has decreed this to be so. Read his posts. Hell, read his post at the top of page 2.
I'm just stating a fact. Armalite is no longer a ground breaking company.
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Sounds like a decree to me. As for moving on, he won't let go, so why should we. Every time he has been shown to be full of it, he responds with the same old drivel. He states the same thing over and over.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 6:47:59 AM EDT
I don't care about there customer service people. WOW they made an AR in another caliber, why don't they stop dragging stoner's design thru every caliber they think they can fit. can't they even come up with a new rifle design? I guess if they did they would end up selling the patent before they could make any money and spend the rest of the time wishing they hadn't. And as for coming out with more new products then any other AR company out there why don't you look at H&K, every few years they completely change there weapons, come up with new designs and create superb weapons. there are so many company's making AR-15 I don't see anything particularly special about armalite, there probably the only company taking steps backwards in the industry.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:06:32 AM EDT
*Sigh* Scarecrow: Stoner originally designed the rifle in question in .308. It was the AR-10 before there ever was an AR-15, M16, SR-25, etc. So saying Armalite is "dragging" the design through other calibers is incorrect. Second, that "butt-ugly" new AR-10 is designed to look like the original. There's nothing wrong with nostalgia. You have derailed. This is another of your posts to try to win favor for your misdirected ignorance, and until you have your own award winning firearms design, you should just be happy playing with your 5-round, semi-only, plastic AR-180 knock-off (or G36, as you like to call it). Happy (lost cause) hunting, havoc
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:09:39 AM EDT
Let see, HK is not the first weapons manufacturer for the new PDW that you are talking about. The FN P90 is the first. HK is only trying give FN a run for the money by caputring a market share for themselves. Is their system is new? Nope. It is just the same as any other firearm except with a speciality ammo that only can be purchased from one soucre at this moment. I do not what makes you high and mighty. Like I said before, try to come up with a new revolution system and you will be a rich bastard. In Canadian money, it does not mean jack sh!t.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:11:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: I don't care about there customer service people. WOW they made an AR in another caliber, why don't they stop dragging stoner's design thru every caliber they think they can fit. can't they even come up with a new rifle design? I guess if they did they would end up selling the patent before they could make any money and spend the rest of the time wishing they hadn't. And as for coming out with more new products then any other AR company out there why don't you look at H&K, every few years they completely change there weapons, come up with new designs and create superb weapons. there are so many company's making AR-15 I don't see anything particularly special about armalite, there probably the only company taking steps backwards in the industry.
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Why don't you give it a rest. Why aren't you ragging on Bushmaster, Colt, or Olympic Arms. They have done far less than ArmaLite. As for HK, all the rifles that you like cannot be bought legally in the U.S. Besides, if you read their website, they don't completely change their weapons, they just repackage them. And what is this 'every few years'. The last thing they came out with, your beloved G39, has been around since the early nineties under another name, by their own info on their website. Okay, you like HK and you, for some reason, have a hard on for ArmaLite. We all understand that, so stop rehashing the same statements over and over and over and over. Again, since you don't seem to get it, don't buy it, don't look at it, but don't ridicule something or someone about which you know absolutely nothing.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:12:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmaLite: Thanks for the kind words AR18. Contact us and we'll set you up with a nearby dealer. We can't have a fine gentleman of your obvious taste and character going without your choices now, can we?
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Is that you Mark? I talked to you the last time you were here for the gun show. Remember what I said about both rifles. I always wanted both rifles. Nuff said.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:14:06 AM EDT
Crow, you can only invent the first "modern battlefield rifle" once - just one time - and ArmaLite did that with the AR-10. Everything after that can't be the first but some sort of derivation. You share with us the fact that Eugene Stoner is deceased. I'm a large "Stoner" fan but if you care to check history, development of the AR-10 was started well before the Stoner arrival - 1955. Further Stoner did not design either the AR-18 or the AR-180. The point being that new designs did not stop at ArmaLite when Stoner departed nor at Knights' Manufacturing when he passed away. (Arguably, Eugene Stoner's finest design may well have been the M-63 while at Cadillac-Gauge.) If we look at the "New ArmaLite Company," I see a string of solid management decisions beginning with the purchase of the "ArmaLite" name and certain other assets in 1992 (?). Management decisions to offer .223 - .243 - .308 - .50 and soon .300 WinMag - .338 Laupa shows a company not only cognizant of the past but looking strongly to the future. Do I hope ArmaLite will look at the .408 Cheyenne ? You bet !! That's about the only caliber not on the drawing board worthy of mention. Looking at the bullet and not the delivery system (rifle) ain't a bad way to quickly check a company's direction and therefore their future. Crow, here is where you tell us about several other companies more forward-thinking than ArmaLite. Further, ArmaLite management has met with the U.S. Military and has met with them in the last thirty days - I don't believe the meeting concerned ArmaLite's past nor your fact (?) of no future. Exactly what in the current ArmaLite product line-up reminds you of the AR-1 - save the fact that the AR-1 has a bolt-action as do some current/future models ????? The return of the AR-180 (The AR-180B) is an example of a company listening to the desires of its' customer base - not a company relying on the past. Finally you mention the AR-7; that ancient design "IS" currently being manufactured - but not by ArmaLite!!! [-!-]
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:20:39 AM EDT
Havoc I meant the model in .243 which is the AR-10 I believe? and AR18 Firearm companies employ large groups of individuals to come up with new designs, I am but one person, and its NOT MY JOB, I'm not hired by any large arms manufacturer to make and design weapons, if I could I would love to work with armalite and put my brain to work designing weapons for all you people! but I don't have the background in the field and since I live in Canada every weapon I'd come up with would have flash hiders and folding stocks. well I would love to design a bullpup rifle but those aren't legal here. anyway I made my point, a point that I have backed up and make because the evidence is so evident if you can see it yourself then your blind. AR stands for Armalite Rerun
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:26:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: anyway I made my point, a point that I have backed up and make because the evidence is so evident if you can see it yourself then your blind. AR stands for Armalite Rerun
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You have made NO point and you have backed up NOTHING. You make statements that have no basis in fact, they are nothing but your opinion, but you present them as fact. You have presented no evidence to anything. We are not blind, you just have presented NOTHING for anyone to see. The only point that you have made is that you are as stubborn as a bulldog and won't let go no matter how wrong or ignorant of the facts you are and that you like H&K. Obviously, you are brighter than everyone else and are the only one that sees this so-called evidence.
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