Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Posted: 4/19/2016 4:05:41 PM EST
I've noticed that both on ARFCOM, and with people I know in real life, we tend to focus on rifle marksmanship. There isn't anything wrong with that. I coach rifle and consider myself above average with a rifle, and yet it is still usually the focus of my training.

Today at work, I overheard someone behind me as I was stepping up to the line tell another coworker to "Watch RockHard13F, he is a pistol badass- accurate and stupid fast too." This really bothered me, because I am NOT that great with a pistol- nor am I all that fast. There are so many people, much, much better with a handgun than I am. It occurred to me then, that if I really am not all that great- what does that make the people I work with comparatively? Do you ever feel like your pistol skills are inadequate? I am confident in my ability to hit what I am aiming at, generally speaking, but I have never felt like my pistol skills are really up to par where they should be.

Is it just me, or does it seem that the vast majority of people (even those who are regular shooters) really are terrible shots with their pistols?
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:07:41 PM EST
I'm the opposite due to ammo costs. I can blast all day with 9mm or .45 without feeling the cost, but to do the same with .556 actually twinges a bit.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:08:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 4:10:11 PM EST by TxLewis]
I am adequate. But I've never really practiced pistol training drills.

Txl
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:11:06 PM EST
I've been shooting for almost 30 years.

I'd like to think I'm above average... since it's just a learned skill, like anything else.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:12:28 PM EST
I don't concern myself with the marksmanship of others not in my family.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:12:42 PM EST
I can make subsequent, consistent hits on man size targets out to 200 yards with a 1911, or a smith revolver.

I think I'm proficient.

I dare someone to call bullshit.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:14:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:14:04 PM EST
I absolutely SUCK with a pistol. My buddy is always saying that if I'm in a life or death situation I'm shooting someone in the nuts. I'm marginally OK with a rifle. That same friend tells me that he wouldn't want to be downrange of me with a scoped rifle; but open sights I'm probably dead. Overall, I suck. But I have a lot of fun.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:14:18 PM EST
I am required to shoot/train for work

I think I'm a pretty solid shooter.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:14:19 PM EST
Two instances:

#1 Right after I retired from the Air Force I landed a part time job as a range master at a local gun store with an indoor range. Part of our duties was to run casino security guards through their qualification course of fire. Full sized B-2 silhouettes at 5, 7, and10 yards. Some of those monkeys couldn't even put all 30 shots on paper.

#2 My current employer has a heavily armed sub-contractor to provide security. I've been on the range with some of them and DAMN, they're no better than example #1
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:15:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:
I can make subsequent, consistent hits on man size targets out to 200 yards with a 1911, or a smith revolver.

I think I'm proficient.

I dare someone to call bullshit.
View Quote



BULLSHIT!

What do I win?
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:16:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 4:16:47 PM EST by chase45]
I pride myself on my pistol shooting ability actually.

However there are also several things I could work on.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:16:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:
I can make subsequent, consistent hits on man size targets out to 200 yards with a 1911, or a smith revolver.

I think I'm proficient.

I dare someone to call bullshit.
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:18:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AL-BOB:
Two instances:

#1 Right after I retired from the Air Force I landed a part time job as a range master at a local gun store with an indoor range. Part of our duties was to run casino security guards through their qualification course of fire. Full sized B-2 silhouettes at 5, 7, and10 yards. Some of those monkeys couldn't even put all 30 shots on paper.

#2 My current employer has a heavily armed sub-contractor to provide security. I've been on the range with some of them and DAMN, they're no better than example #1
View Quote



serious? my first pistol was a 9mm. right before i took my CCL test i bought a used Glock 23. never shot it until i took my test and got an almost perfect. i consider myself an OK shooter, but need alot of improvement. no idea how they cant even hit paper.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:19:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 4:20:19 PM EST by ken_mays]
We all know that 95% of pistol owners do little more than fire a few boxes of ammo in their lifetimes. Even an OK pistol shooter can look like magic compared to that.

I was at my club's covered pistol range a while back, test firing a new pistol I'd built. There was another gent on the line, maybe 10 years older than me. We shot for a while. I'd shot a series of 2" groups at 15 yards which said more about the gun than me. I couldn't see much about how he was doing because his targets were pretty shot up, so I didn't pay much attention when he began packing up and approached me. He said something like, "For a minute or two I thought you may have been Rob Leatham because not only do you look like him, you shoot like him too!"

We both had a good laugh at that. I ain't in no ways anywhere close to RL in skill, a mediocre competitor at best, but this guy was apparently impressed.

I don't put nearly as much time in on rifles. Where I live, I figure I am far more likely to use a pistol to defend myself than anything else.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:19:49 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:
I can make subsequent, consistent hits on man size targets out to 200 yards with a 1911, or a smith revolver.

I think I'm proficient.

I dare someone to call bullshit.
View Quote


I believe you, and that's impressive. I used to hit a piece of 20" wide by 14" high steel plate at about 110 yards out at the farm, with an old Ruger P95, about half the time, standing. If you can hit a 8'x11" piece of paper at 15 yards, you can probably do it at 25, or 50. Just takes practice and some front sight focus.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:20:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:
I can make subsequent, consistent hits on man size targets out to 200 yards with a 1911, or a smith revolver.

I think I'm proficient.

I dare someone to call bullshit.
View Quote


I installed a RMR on my m&p one guy I know was able to hit a steel man size target with it a few times, me not so much. I did get the one at 100 a few times
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:21:17 PM EST
I'm well above most people I see on ranges in my AO. I felt great about myself.

Then I started shooting USPSA.

Now I realize that I'm not good, its just that everyone else sucks.

Now I'm never satisfied, and I always try to improve.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:22:47 PM EST
Yes, I feel inadequate. Yes, I have noticed that at the range I shoot better than most of the other schlubs out there.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:23:00 PM EST

But are we talking competitive shooting pistol skills?
Cause LAV said that could get you killed in a real life gunfight



Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:23:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 4:28:28 PM EST by brasidas]
I thought I was pretty handy with a pistol, until I took a pistol class. Then I realized I knew as much as Jon Snow.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:24:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:
I can make subsequent, consistent hits on man size targets out to 200 yards with a 1911, or a smith revolver.

I think I'm proficient.

I dare someone to call bullshit.
View Quote

That's not impossible to do once you're dialed in.

Can you do it with someone shooting back at you? THAT'S the hard part
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:24:23 PM EST
Im no tier one operator and for a guy that gets out and shoots handguns once a month Im not a bad shot. When I sit at the range and watch people shoot I sometimes think maybe i am better than just average. Or most people just suck at shooting and im somewhere in between. Probably the later.



Seriously though watching people shoot shotgun patterns at 15 feet is kind of pathetic , but at least they are trying.


My rifle skills are decent when I get a chance to use them at the 50 or 100 yard line , but iron sights are killing me as I get older.

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:25:09 PM EST
I feel much more confident with a handgun than a rifle.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:25:25 PM EST
Definitely a perishable skill.

I can be pretty darned good with my handguns, but if I've not practiced for a month or more It takes a little while to get in the groove again. Rifle seems to stick with me when it comes to drills and such.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:30:06 PM EST
The vast majority of shooters are shockingly bad with pistols, including the military and police.

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:35:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:36:04 PM EST
The most frustrating thing for me is that my skills are fine, but my eyesight sucks these days. I manage with trifocal's, but damned if it doesn't take all the fun out of shooting these days.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:36:16 PM EST
Most of my shooting experience comes from pistols so my competitive pistol skills are excellent but my combat skills are just above average. I can hold my own with a rifle in a competition but I'm not the top shooter at those matches. If I ever need to defend myself with either firearm I feel sorry for the poor bastard on the wrong end of the gun.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:37:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:

I'm getting old.

I used to be much better at almost everything I used to do.
View Quote



this is what I came here to post, but still, getting old is better than the alternative.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:37:48 PM EST
I was in a USPSA practice session last night. Yes, I am disappointed with my pistol skills

I'd like to think I'm better than your average joe, but there are many many many that can shoot faster and more accurately than I can.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:40:11 PM EST
If you're outshooting everyone around you, seek new company.

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:45:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By connor327:



serious? my first pistol was a 9mm. right before i took my CCL test i bought a used Glock 23. never shot it until i took my test and got an almost perfect. i consider myself an OK shooter, but need alot of improvement. no idea how they cant even hit paper.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By connor327:
Originally Posted By AL-BOB:
Two instances:

#1 Right after I retired from the Air Force I landed a part time job as a range master at a local gun store with an indoor range. Part of our duties was to run casino security guards through their qualification course of fire. Full sized B-2 silhouettes at 5, 7, and10 yards. Some of those monkeys couldn't even put all 30 shots on paper.

#2 My current employer has a heavily armed sub-contractor to provide security. I've been on the range with some of them and DAMN, they're no better than example #1



serious? my first pistol was a 9mm. right before i took my CCL test i bought a used Glock 23. never shot it until i took my test and got an almost perfect. i consider myself an OK shooter, but need alot of improvement. no idea how they cant even hit paper.



Proficient should mean that you know that your skill level is up to the task that you have identified. You worried about using a pistol in a real life "Social Situation"? then you should be able to draw and get at least one hit, upper chest, in 1.5 seconds because that's the minimum time you can count on for a threat to cover that distance. Can you protect your head and draw to retention and make chest area hits from 1-2 yards if you are in the worst case of being pinned and having to defend yourself as you draw? Can you do a transition to the off hand and still make successive chest area hits in a reasonable amount of time (1-3 seconds) in case you injure your dominant hand? Do all of the above using the light source of your preference? All under what will probably be a much less stressful situation than doing it for real where your skill level can suffer.

Those are probably the most necessary benchmarks. Yes, you should be able to reload, multiple threats, move and shoot, fix a malfunction, make hits from 10-25 yards from cover ect., but those fall down on the list of what you will probably need to do to defend yourself, so I would say concentrate on those core skills until you are truly proficient then add to the tool box. We we all have limits on the time and money necessary to develop the necessary skills. You have to make choices so I would say triage from most to least probable.

If you don't test yourself with a timer and a defined realistic metric you will "know" that your "good" until a metric is forced on you and you find out that you're not. I've seen this hundreds of times with student.

All of the Qualifications I've seen or shot are generous enough on either the time or the distance to make sure that just about everyone can qual. They are not a measure of what you really need to be able to do based on real world metrics. Draw and get 2 COM hits in 4 seconds at 7 yards when it take 1.5-2.5 for a threat to cover that distance, what does that accomplish besides an arbitrary level of proficiency.

I know what the tactical Timmys will say but if you want a real gauge of what your skill level is competition can't be beat. You will shoot against other really good shooters on the same stage on the same day and you get a direct comparison. Do it for several months years and you will see the change in your skill level over time. If you can't mentally separate a fun day on the range from a life or death confrontation and behave accordingly you need to check your head space.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:46:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
Is it just me, or does it seem that the vast majority of people (even those who are regular shooters) really are terrible shots with their pistols?
View Quote


The vast majority are unsafe about everything to do with guns (not just pistols) and borderline incompetent outside of occasionally hitting a milk jug at 10 yards with a pistol. Watch someone take 40 rounds to hit a clay pigeon at 50 yards with a rifle then brag about being able to hit a clay at 200 yards then you won't be baffled at why they consider someone who trains once in a while to possess god like abilities.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:46:15 PM EST
I'm disappointed with myself
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:50:11 PM EST
I could stand to be better at both. My current FAST drill time is about 6 seconds.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:54:03 PM EST
I think most pistol shooters vastly over estimate their skills. Usually because they have no problem making hits on a pie plate target standing at the range. Most usually fail to consider the effects of stress on their skills.

For me, USPSA really opened my eyes to how bad my skills under stress were, and how much I needed to improve.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:55:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:56:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pukindog:



this is what I came here to post, but still, getting old is better than the alternative.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pukindog:
Originally Posted By Waldo:

I'm getting old.

I used to be much better at almost everything I used to do.



this is what I came here to post, but still, getting old is better than the alternative.



True. But, then, there's coming to "the realization that your enemies no longer consider you dangerous."
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:57:32 PM EST
As I age, my skills decline, regardless of rounds put downrange to stay sharp. It is disappointing, but better than the alternative!
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 4:58:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spectre210:
The most frustrating thing for me is that my skills are fine, but my eyesight sucks these days. I manage with trifocal's, but damned if it doesn't take all the fun out of shooting these days.
View Quote


This is a large part of my curse, as well. I feel your pain.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:00:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 5:03:48 PM EST by AJE]
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:01:15 PM EST
I'm an average pistol shooter, above average on a really good day. Just casual observation of the shooters' targets next to mine at the indoor range tells me that the people around me suck. It was downright scary watching people try to qualify at my CWP class. I firmly beleive that mastering handgun basics takes considerably more effort than with a rifle and most people don't have the time or interest in getting proficient,

The last couple I took to the range had terrible handgun skills. " my daddy was a cop and he taught me how to shoot " kind of mentality. Did not want to be instructed to improve skill or safety. The girl almost lost her thumb because she had it sticking up behind the slide as she was ready to fire. Good thing I gently intervened...

I've had people at the range tell me or my wife that I'm a good shooter, even when I'm having an off day... The only reply I have for them is " lots of practice "...

1DD
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:07:51 PM EST
I am a decent pistol shot. My biggest problem is that I have too many pistols and I have never really gotten as familiar as I should with any of them, the exception being smith revolvers. One of my goals this year is to change that.

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:11:17 PM EST
It really depends on the pistol. I am not so great with my Glock, yet I keep that pistol. I am much better with my HK P2000. I don't shoot my pistols enough really. I can't carry, so I don't spend a lot of time worrying about my marksmanship. If I can hit a six inch area from 10 yards, I'm done. My rifles I shoot for the sheer sexual thrill, so it's much easier to improve my marksmanship with them. When I pack up to go to the range, honestly pistols are an afterthought.

When I get out of California and can actually carry, I might be more interested in pistols, but for now, meh.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:13:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bailagent100:



True. But, then, there's coming to "the realization that your enemies no longer consider you dangerous."
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bailagent100:
Originally Posted By pukindog:
Originally Posted By Waldo:

I'm getting old.

I used to be much better at almost everything I used to do.



this is what I came here to post, but still, getting old is better than the alternative.



True. But, then, there's coming to "the realization that your enemies no longer consider you dangerous."


I don't have any enemies of which I am aware, and if I did then they are probably getting old just like me

But seriously, I realized some time ago that I am no spring chicken.

My only hope is that my fading skill is better than the likely "lack of skills" of most criminals I might encounter.

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:14:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By the_ak_kid:
I can make subsequent, consistent hits on man size targets out to 200 yards with a 1911, or a smith revolver.

I think I'm proficient.

I dare someone to call bullshit.
View Quote


Bullshit!

(you dared, I had to)

Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:16:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By connor327:



serious? my first pistol was a 9mm. right before i took my CCL test i bought a used Glock 23. never shot it until i took my test and got an almost perfect. i consider myself an OK shooter, but need alot of improvement. no idea how they cant even hit paper.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By connor327:
Originally Posted By AL-BOB:
Two instances:

#1 Right after I retired from the Air Force I landed a part time job as a range master at a local gun store with an indoor range. Part of our duties was to run casino security guards through their qualification course of fire. Full sized B-2 silhouettes at 5, 7, and10 yards. Some of those monkeys couldn't even put all 30 shots on paper.

#2 My current employer has a heavily armed sub-contractor to provide security. I've been on the range with some of them and DAMN, they're no better than example #1



serious? my first pistol was a 9mm. right before i took my CCL test i bought a used Glock 23. never shot it until i took my test and got an almost perfect. i consider myself an OK shooter, but need alot of improvement. no idea how they cant even hit paper.


Totally serious. A large number of them never practice. They shoot their pistols once a year, to qualify. They are security guards because it's a job and carrying a pistol is part of the dress code.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:17:09 PM EST
Sucking at pistol shooting is what makes it fun for me-

A lot more fun to shoot at cans and other targets in the sandpits with a pistol than with a rifle, IMO.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:17:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Formergrunt94:
I'm well above most people I see on ranges in my AO. I felt great about myself.

Then I started shooting USPSA.


Now I realize that I'm not good, its just that everyone else sucks.


Now I'm never satisfied, and I always try to improve.
View Quote
Basically this
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 5:18:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 5:24:44 PM EST by sslocal]
I do better with a rifle but I shoot a pistol almost daily in my back yard.

Before anyone gets all jelly it is a pellet pistol that I shoot from inside the house to a target backed by phone books.
All you can hear is the pellet hitting the phonebook.

BTW: I still can't hit shit.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Top Top