Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/24/2004 4:00:25 PM EST
I'm interested in scanning police bands in NJ and NY
Dice?
No Dice?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:07:59 PM EST
Probably a bad idea.

That noise you heard in the bushes, it wasn't the neighbors cat!!!!

Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:09:51 PM EST
Yes it is most likely legal. Though in NJ and NY you never can tell. There are some magazenes dedciated to scanning that have some neat info in them.

Now I wouldn't have a scanner on me if I was commiting a crime, some states have statutes that add on a charge for that.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:12:24 PM EST
It's only kosher if you get your scanner blessed by a rabbi.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:17:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:19:59 PM EST
My FFL has one playing in his shop. His LEO customers don't seem to mind and listen to see if anyone they know is responding.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:20:49 PM EST
I've read stories about Ham's getting busted by the New York State Police because their amature radios (2 meters with wide receive capability) are able to receive Police freq's. No shit! And Ham's are exempt from the law, but since when are cops legal experts on everything???

Mobile scanners are a major no-go in NY, probably NJ too.

People have gotten ticketed for consenting to a midnight search of their car trunk and the trooper found a Radio Shack hand held scanner with batteries in it in a duffle bag. NY considers police scanners as a burlary tool. Go figure.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:22:27 PM EST
Radio Shack, universal radio, betty bearcat freq guide, police call from radio shack and a good outdoor antenna and your good to go. You can use the antenna that comes with it but once you stick up a rooftop antenna you'll throw the little one away
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:45:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I'm interested in scanning police bands in NJ and NY
Dice?
No Dice?



This is a good site for getting frequencies in the northeast: www.fordyce.org/scanning/

Look up state/city/county and you'll get all LEO/Hospital/etc. frequencies. Some of the conversations are hilarious in a "I'm glad I'm not that guy" sort of way. IIRC, you're not allowed to listen to cell phone conversations. I have no idea about legality in NJ or NY but you may get info from the site above.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:58:17 PM EST
Eh, you're allowed to listen to anything, but you're not allowed to tell others what you've heard.

Anyhow, even if my local cops said anything, I got my ham radio license. Pound sand or talk to my lawyer.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 5:03:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:
I've read stories about Ham's getting busted by the New York State Police because their amature radios (2 meters with wide receive capability) are able to receive Police freq's. No shit! And Ham's are exempt from the law, but since when are cops legal experts on everything???

Mobile scanners are a major no-go in NY, probably NJ too.

People have gotten ticketed for consenting to a midnight search of their car trunk and the trooper found a Radio Shack hand held scanner with batteries in it in a duffle bag. NY considers police scanners as a burlary tool. Go figure.




In Michigan we Hams are exempt.

Bobwrench
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 6:10:18 PM EST
ny frequencies by county
nf2g.com/scannist/index.html
completely legal. might get in trouble in a car, unless you have a ham license

Section 397 of the Vehicle and Traffic Law makes it unlawful to equip a motor vehicle with "a radio receiving set capable of receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for police use" unless one is a Peace Officer or a licensed amateur radio operator.

This section provides for obtaining a mobile monitoring permit from the police, but the average citizen is not likely to be granted such a permit. They have been issued to newsgathering organizations and to companies that serve the public and can demonstrate a need for mobile monitoring.

Many ham operators are of the opinion that the so-called "ham exemption" to Section 397 only applies to amateur transceivers that incidentally receive frequencies outside of the ham bands. I believed that reasoning myself until I did a little bit of research. As it turns out, Section 397 was passed into law before there were any ham rigs with built-in extended VHF coverage. Therefore, it was not likely the Legislature's intent to exempt equipment that did not yet exist.

Different local courts and police agencies have varying ideas about the actual meaning of Section 397. The law is not clear and there are no Court of Appeals cases that control statewide interpretation of this statute. I am researching the issue and preparing an article about it for submission to a law journal. When the article is published, I will announce it here.

Link Posted: 8/24/2004 7:44:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 8:06:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By anothergene:
More police are either "scrambling" transmissions or have went digital, meaning, you can't get it anyway.


Doubtful that they're encrypted. They've probably gone to trunk systems, which analog or digital,
are still capable of being received if you have the freqs, and a trunk scanner. Available at RatShack
for abt $350, ISTR.

Here in VA, I can listen all I want to the various freqs, I'm just not supposed to tell anybody what I
hear. Yeah, whatever......

I can attest to the fact that people talk about all kinds of shit on the various phones that I sure
wouldn't want to be talking about if I knew that somebody might be listening. But in their case, I
guess that ignorance is bliss. It's hilarious, they banned scanners several years back that could
intercept certain freqs (namely cell phones at the time) then modern technology changed it to a
different band, that the new ones can pick up. Go figure.....
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 8:29:54 PM EST
The new digital trunked systems require a scanner that will actually follow and decode the digital signal. Analog will not work, even if you just have it on one frequency. The PRO-96 and Uniden 296D are the two HTs most people have. Both have positives and negatives as to what systems they can follow (e.g., EDACS, LTR, Ericsson, Motorola). They haven't really been perfected yet and the audio sucks a lot of the time. One person will be real soft and another real loud. The local PD around here are almost all digital and do encrypt most of their hot calls (e.g., domestic violence, fights, robbery). It's enough that I probably won't buy one at all.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 8:48:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama:
Eh, you're allowed to listen to anything, but you're not allowed to tell others what you've heard.

Anyhow, even if my local cops said anything, I got my ham radio license. Pound sand or talk to my lawyer.



Sorry, it is illegal to intercept cellular phone transmissions.

If you can find anything out here, this is where it would be:

Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 10:29:09 PM EST
Analog scanners work, but you need a high-band converter and run fast scan. It's tough because you have to figure out the two ends of the call. It's a cheap way out instead of a trunking scanner, which is more $$$. Cellular phones are radio telephones, yes, you can legally listen in and users are advised they shouldn't expect privacy in the small print. Calls were scanned and recorded by a citizen during the Klinton administration and no charges were ever brought. Tape was turned in to LE. Carrying scanners in the vehicle is of course like guns, a state by state issue. Get an issue of Popular Communications at your mag store and get on board, there are many other facets to amateur radio other than police/cell scanning - packets, sw, etc.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 10:53:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2004 11:00:31 PM EST by PaDanby]
Cellular Freqs - Yes you can listen, however, it is illegal to sell radios that receive that band. Modifying radios can be an FCC rule violations, and most guys can't do it right.

Encryption - yes, common on digital signals, it's easy to do and hard for the non-professional to overcome. Take the analog voice information convert to a digital data group. That is "easy" to read if the radio can read digital, add a simple algorithm to the digital signal, a "scanner" converts to analog directly and produces crap, an authorized receiver has the correct de-algorithm to filter it off, now a clean digital signal, run it back through a converter and out comes a legible voice.

3rd party - The Federal Law basically says you can listen to anything you can hear, divulging to 3rd parties is illegal.

Many states, counties, cities prohibit possesion of radios that receive police freqs, can they supercede Federal law. Has yet to be all the way to SCOTUS for a variety of reasons, most places don't enforce because of the ambiguity. The exceptions for Hams in many places are because case has more or less been developed that Amaateur Radio is governed by the FCC Regs and that the Feds are override. Also there are a lot of Ham groups that support LEO and Emergency activities, and although it is of doubtful technical legality, many agencies issue their band radios to Hams for emergency purposes. Normally you have to be licensed for the band you transmit on, but there is a great big "IN EMERGENCIES" loophole that some drive through with marginal definitions of emergency.

I never worried about the police freqs in my radios when traveling in NJ and NY because I had id for my emergency work and figured that if I was somehow stopped, that was my out.

At the higher freqs, say 460 mhz and up they are used all over the place, generally low power line of sight so you might have agencies less than 50 miles apart using the same freqs. You put a sub-audible tone squelch and your radio won't pass signals without that tone and vice versa. Scanners that can't use the tone may hear both but generally only the strongest (FM feature)

So get a Ham license, it's not that hard, and you pretty much insulate yourself. Unless you use for illegal purposes and then the Ham protection or any protection goes away.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:39:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 12:40:23 AM EST by chapperjoe]
I just realized the downright funniest thing! (COULDN'T make it up if I tried)


Are radio scanners kosher



So get a Ham license, it's not that hard, and you pretty much insulate yourself. Unless you use for illegal purposes and then the Ham protection or any protection goes away.



Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:53:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tanker06:
Doubtful that they're encrypted. They've probably gone to trunk systems, which analog or digital,
are still capable of being received if you have the freqs, and a trunk scanner. Available at RatShack
for abt $350, ISTR.



Depends on the agency. Some are digitally encrypted. We used to have an encrypt capability we could manually activate, but it never worked right.
When we put the MDT system in back in '95, most sensitive stuff started goping out over the MDT. Now that that system has broken down and is awaiting replacement, any sensitive stuff goes out on cell phones or face-to-face.
We pretty much figure anything over the radio is going to be heard in scannerland and plan accordingly.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 1:09:59 AM EST
Funniest thing heard on scanner:

Seattle PD during the WTO session some years back....

A call was made to the PD....

A man fitting x description by the name of xxxx, xxxx rented a room at hotel such-and-such.

While room service was cleaning the room they found firearms and other "anarchist paraphenalia".

The man was denied access to the hotel room after that until the PD arrved.

He returned to the hotel with several friends and a pit bulldog.

He "intimated" that if he could not enter the room, the dog would be used as a weapon.

Responding PD officer to Lt.

"Request permission to shoot the dog, repeat, request permission to shoot the dog".

Lt. to officer

"Hold until I arrive, repeat, do nothing until I arrive".

This was written up in several of the papers.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 5:41:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I just realized the downright funniest thing! (COULDN'T make it up if I tried)


Are radio scanners kosher



So get a Ham license, it's not that hard, and you pretty much insulate yourself. Unless you use for illegal purposes and then the Ham protection or any protection goes away.


instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifinstagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifinstagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifinstagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifinstagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifinstagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifinstagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifinstagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gifinstagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/blackeye/lol.gif



THAT'S JUST AWFUL!!!!!

This one time at band camp my mom and my aunt and uncle and I went to a nice brunch for Mothers day.

Now, we are all from NYC, and very aware (but not Jewish) of "kosher" foods.

So we are all sitting down eating and my mom is carrying on about how she loves motza's and it's tough to find good ones in WI, and then she proceedes to put some ROAST PORK on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We all laughed at her for hours!!!!!

[/hijack]

...and it is illegal to intercept cellular phone calls. The story about someone taping a conversation and turning it in to the police happend to a US Representative and some folks were following him and taping his calls. I forget the specifics, but I seem to recall his conversation was about some kind of illegal activity and the people who taped it were operatives of the oposing party.

Yes you can do it. But you can also CCW in Chicago right up till you get caught.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:31:20 AM EST
There was a thread a few weeks ago where some members suggested particular trunking models and some online retailers with good prices.

I can't find it, and I don't know if the thread already scrolled off into history. Anyone remember the specifics or able to post it again?

Thanks
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:40:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 6:41:27 AM EST by sharky30]
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:40:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I'm interested in scanning police bands in NJ and NY
Dice?
No Dice?



I'm new to this and please verify this with other sources, but my understanding is that at a state level, LE scanning is okay in NJ, but not in particular towns if you're mobile. Don't have a list of those towns.

In NY, mobile scanning of LE bands is illegal, as is even having a LE band capable reciever in a vehicle, even if unplugged and in the trunk. Only loophole is for licensed amateurs, but there is an often overlooked restriction on that loophole. Licensed amateurs are allowed to travel with _transcievers_ which include LE band reception capabilities, but a reciever-only is not allowed.

In other words, being a HAM won't let you have a scanner in your car in New York. But being a HAM will let you have a HAM radio in your car, even if that HAM radio includes the ability to listen to LE freq's.

Again, please verify, but I'm pretty confident of the fact that being a HAM won't let you drive with a scanner in NY, despite common misinterpretations that make people think they can.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:45:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 6:45:55 AM EST by Tanker06]

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:

Originally Posted By Tanker06:
Doubtful that they're encrypted. They've probably gone to trunk systems, which analog or digital,
are still capable of being received if you have the freqs, and a trunk scanner. Available at RatShack
for abt $350, ISTR.


Depends on the agency. Some are digitally encrypted. We used to have an encrypt capability we could manually activate, but it never worked right.


That's why I said that. I know that TECHNICALLY, a lot of the agencies have the CAPABILITY,
but whether it really works (equipment) or the users were paying attention during the class is
another story. A few guys that I know, who deal with this say it's a toss-up.

When we put the MDT system in back in '95, most sensitive stuff started goping out over the MDT.
Now that that system has broken down and is awaiting replacement, any sensitive stuff goes out on cell phones or face-to-face.
We pretty much figure anything over the radio is going to be heard in scannerland and plan accordingly.


Exactly. We do the same thing for EMS patient info or fire calls.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:48:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 6:52:26 AM EST by nationwide]



Hanging out on ARFCOM has me feeling a little


<------------------------------------------


Originally Posted By BoreSighted:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I'm interested in scanning police bands in NJ and NY
Dice?
No Dice?



I'm new to this and please verify this with other sources, but my understanding is that at a state level, LE scanning is okay in NJ, but not in particular towns if you're mobile. Don't have a list of those towns.

In NY, mobile scanning of LE bands is illegal, as is even having a LE band capable reciever in a vehicle, even if unplugged and in the trunk. Only loophole is for licensed amateurs, but there is an often overlooked restriction on that loophole. Licensed amateurs are allowed to travel with _transcievers_ which include LE band reception capabilities, but a reciever-only is not allowed.

In other words, being a HAM won't let you have a scanner in your car in New York. But being a HAM will let you have a HAM radio in your car, even if that HAM radio includes the ability to listen to LE freq's.

Again, please verify, but I'm pretty confident of the fact that being a HAM won't let you drive with a scanner in NY, despite common misinterpretations that make people think they can.



No city or state can make ANY LAW interfering with my privilges to operate radio transmitting and receiving equipment, including limitations on antenna structures, power output levels, and mobile operation of ANY equipment capable of receiving amature frequencies for which I have a license to operate on. This includes my Bearcat scanner with 2m freq's plugged in, or just set for scanning 144-148 mHz.

My licensce is issued by the Federal Communications Commission, an agency of the Federal Gov't. Local and State Gov'ts have NO JURISDICTION over my excercising these privliges. Period. End of debate.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:52:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By lawsec:
Funniest thing heard on scanner:

Seattle PD during the WTO session some years back....

A call was made to the PD....

A man fitting x description by the name of xxxx, xxxx rented a room at hotel such-and-such.

While room service was cleaning the room they found firearms and other "anarchist paraphenalia".

The man was denied access to the hotel room after that until the PD arrved.

He returned to the hotel with several friends and a pit bulldog.

He "intimated" that if he could not enter the room, the dog would be used as a weapon.

Responding PD officer to Lt.

"Request permission to shoot the dog, repeat, request permission to shoot the dog".

Lt. to officer

"Hold until I arrive, repeat, do nothing until I arrive".

This was written up in several of the papers.


This was funny how?
Had the officer actually had to shoot the dog after the owner used him against the officer, I am sure the cop haters on the internet would have gone bonkers over "that JBT that had to needlessly shoot another family pet".
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:25:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 8:15:41 AM EST by Garand_Shooter]
In NY and other states that prohibit scanners you cannot have a scanner with a ham license, but you CAN have an amateur transciever that is also capable of scanning and recieving public safety as well. This is per FCC regulations that have basicly overidden any state or local laws.

And despite what PaDandy says, state and local laws CANNOT overridde that federal regulation. The reason it hasn't reached the SCOTUS is because the law and precendent is solid and the localities that attempt to prosecute hams have been solidly trounced when they do so, and the DA's aren't about to pursue the case once the realize they really don't have one. If need be I will post the entire text of the ruling and the law behind it.

The local authorities cannot regulate what equipment a person licensed by the FCC uses in accordance with that license, no more than they could up and issue themselves a permit to use any radio frequency they want, they have no jurisdiction.... thats why a ham transciever that can also recieve public safety is exempted, but a scanner is not (scanner is not made for transmitting on amatuer frequencies.)
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:29:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:


Hanging out on ARFCOM has me feeling a little


<------------------------------------------


Originally Posted By BoreSighted:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
I'm interested in scanning police bands in NJ and NY
Dice?
No Dice?



I'm new to this and please verify this with other sources, but my understanding is that at a state level, LE scanning is okay in NJ, but not in particular towns if you're mobile. Don't have a list of those towns.

In NY, mobile scanning of LE bands is illegal, as is even having a LE band capable reciever in a vehicle, even if unplugged and in the trunk. Only loophole is for licensed amateurs, but there is an often overlooked restriction on that loophole. Licensed amateurs are allowed to travel with _transcievers_ which include LE band reception capabilities, but a reciever-only is not allowed.

In other words, being a HAM won't let you have a scanner in your car in New York. But being a HAM will let you have a HAM radio in your car, even if that HAM radio includes the ability to listen to LE freq's.

Again, please verify, but I'm pretty confident of the fact that being a HAM won't let you drive with a scanner in NY, despite common misinterpretations that make people think they can.



No city or state can make ANY LAW interfering with my privilges to operate radio transmitting and receiving equipment, including limitations on antenna structures, power output levels, and mobile operation of ANY equipment capable of receiving amature frequencies for which I have a license to operate on. This includes my Bearcat scanner with 2m freq's plugged in, or just set for scanning 144-148 mHz.

My licensce is issued by the Federal Communications Commission, an agency of the Federal Gov't. Local and State Gov'ts have NO JURISDICTION over my excercising these privliges. Period. End of debate.



Read my above post, radios capable of transmitting on the amatuer bands (any of them) that can also receive public safety are covered by your license, but equipment strictly for receiving is not.

Then again, I have a homebrewed 2m transceiver that uses a trunktracking scanner as its reciving section.... and that is covered. So as long as your creative you are good to go.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:41:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 7:44:48 AM EST by lawsec]

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:
This was funny how?
Had the officer actually had to shoot the dog after the owner used him against the officer, I am sure the cop haters on the internet would have gone bonkers over "that JBT that had to needlessly shoot another family pet".



I was listening at the same time. I guess you had to hear it.

Have you ever heard one of your greenies on the radio trying to sound very serious when you can tell they are overreating to a situation? That's what the experienced Lt. heard, and very emphatically told him not to do anything.

What didn't make it into the published report was when the Lt. switched to another TG for supervisors and said he had to "go control another greenie who is itching to pull the trigger".

See, the officer was not yet on scene. He made the request immediately after getting dispatched on the call - didn't even miss a beat. That was what made it so funny to the public and why it got noted. The tone of voice he used was the clincher - he was referred to as Barney Fife in a later conversation on the supers group.

Of course, even without actually shooting the dog [which it turned out was not a pit bull] , the anti-PD folks out there could easily use him as an example of PD power gone overboard. I have used him as an example in training classes in both radio procedure and situational evaluation.

It was funny to hear on the radio if you didn't think about the underlying problem.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:43:25 AM EST
ok, that info makes more sense than the original post did.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:54:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 7:55:05 AM EST by QuietShootr]

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Read my above post, radios capable of transmitting on the amatuer bands (any of them) that can also receive public safety are covered by your license, but equipment strictly for receiving is not.




That's not true here. Scanners, or "Portable Police Radios" as defined by Indiana Code, are not permitted to be carried in a MV unless you're a) a cop or b) have a permit issued by the police chief of your locality or c) have an Amateur Radio license. They don't address whether the radio is capable of transmitting or not.

I keep a copy of my license laminated to the back of this:


IC 35-44-3-12
Unlawful use of a police radio; exemptions; "police radio" defined
Sec. 12. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally:
(1) possesses a police radio;
(2) transmits over a frequency assigned for police emergency purposes; or
(3) possesses or uses a police radio:
(A) while committing a crime;
(B) to further the commission of a crime; or
(C) to avoid detection by a law enforcement agency;
commits unlawful use of a police radio, a Class B misdemeanor.
(b) Subsection (a)(1) and (a)(2) do not apply to:
(1) a governmental entity;
(2) a regularly employed law enforcement officer;
(3) a common carrier of persons for hire whose vehicles are used in emergency service;
(4) a public service or utility company whose vehicles are used in emergency service;
(5) a person who has written permission from the chief executive officer of a law enforcement agency to possess a police radio;
(6) a person who holds an amateur radio license issued by the Federal Communications Commission if the person is not transmitting over a frequency assigned for police emergency purposes;
(7) a person who uses a police radio only in the person's dwelling or place of business;
(8) a person:
(A) who is regularly engaged in newsgathering activities;
(B) who is employed by a newspaper qualified to receive legal advertisements under IC 5-3-1, a wire service, or a licensed commercial or public radio or television station; and
(C) whose name is furnished by his employer to the chief executive officer of a law enforcement agency in the county in which the employer's principal office is located;
(9) a person engaged in the business of manufacturing or selling police radios; or
(10) a person who possesses or uses a police radio during the normal course of the person's lawful business.
(c) As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes and that:
(1) can be installed, maintained, or operated in a vehicle; or
(2) can be operated while it is being carried by an individual.

The term does not include a radio designed for use only in a dwelling.
As added by Acts 1977, P.L.342, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.162-1994, SEC.1.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:58:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 7:59:41 AM EST by Garand_Shooter]

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Read my above post, radios capable of transmitting on the amatuer bands (any of them) that can also receive public safety are covered by your license, but equipment strictly for receiving is not.




That's not true here. Scanners, or "Portable Police Radios" as defined by Indiana Code, are not permitted to be carried in a MV unless you're a) a cop or b) have a permit issued by the police chief of your locality or c) have an Amateur Radio license. They don't address whether the radio is capable of transmitting or not.

I keep a copy of my license laminated to the back of this:


IC 35-44-3-12
Unlawful use of a police radio; exemptions; "police radio" defined
Sec. 12. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally:
(1) possesses a police radio;
(2) transmits over a frequency assigned for police emergency purposes; or
(3) possesses or uses a police radio:
(A) while committing a crime;
(B) to further the commission of a crime; or
(C) to avoid detection by a law enforcement agency;
commits unlawful use of a police radio, a Class B misdemeanor.
(b) Subsection (a)(1) and (a)(2) do not apply to:
(1) a governmental entity;
(2) a regularly employed law enforcement officer;
(3) a common carrier of persons for hire whose vehicles are used in emergency service;
(4) a public service or utility company whose vehicles are used in emergency service;
(5) a person who has written permission from the chief executive officer of a law enforcement agency to possess a police radio;
(6) a person who holds an amateur radio license issued by the Federal Communications Commission if the person is not transmitting over a frequency assigned for police emergency purposes;
(7) a person who uses a police radio only in the person's dwelling or place of business;
(8) a person:
(A) who is regularly engaged in newsgathering activities;
(B) who is employed by a newspaper qualified to receive legal advertisements under IC 5-3-1, a wire service, or a licensed commercial or public radio or television station; and
(C) whose name is furnished by his employer to the chief executive officer of a law enforcement agency in the county in which the employer's principal office is located;
(9) a person engaged in the business of manufacturing or selling police radios; or
(10) a person who possesses or uses a police radio during the normal course of the person's lawful business.
(c) As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes and that:
(1) can be installed, maintained, or operated in a vehicle; or
(2) can be operated while it is being carried by an individual.

The term does not include a radio designed for use only in a dwelling.
As added by Acts 1977, P.L.342, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.162-1994, SEC.1.




I was speaking of cases like NY where there is no exemption in state laws for amateurs. Many states take it further like your above example, and in those states the Federal preemption is not needed.

In the case of NY they say no radio capable of reciving LE period, and make no exemption for hams. the FCC stepped in and said the state of NY had no jurisdiction over any radio used by an amatuer as a transceiver on the amatuer bands.

NY and KY seem to have the worst track record of harrasing hams with legal radios.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:26:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 8:27:08 AM EST by Garand_Shooter]
Specificly for you NY LEO's, here is some previous case history. i pick on NY because the poster asked about it and they have a bad reputation for harrassing hams.

www.arrl.org/arrlletter/03/0912/

* Court kicks New York ham's "police radio" case: A New York court has
dismissed a misdemeanor charge against ARRL member Richard C. "Dick"
Lalone, KC5GAX, for violating §397 of that state's Vehicle and Traffic
Law. That section prohibits individuals other than law officers from
equipping their vehicles with radios "capable of receiving signals on the
frequencies allocated for police use" without first securing a permit. The
section, which also prohibits knowingly interfering with police
transmissions, contains an explicit exemption for "any person who holds a
valid amateur radio operator's license . . . and who operates a duly
licensed portable mobile transmitter and in connection therewith a
receiver or receiving set on frequencies exclusively allocated . . . to
duly licensed radio amateurs." In a nearly 1300-word decision, Judge John
J. Hallet said it was clear the legislature never intended the provisions
of §397 from applying to licensed Amateur Radio operators, and he
dismissed the charge August 5. Susan Terry, KF4SUE, a former New York
assistant attorney general, represented Lalone. ARRL President Jim Haynie,
W5JBP, ARRL General Counsel Chris Imlay, W3KD, and ARRL Regulatory
Information Specialist John Hennessee, N1KB, provided advice or assistance
to Lalone.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:49:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
I was speaking of cases like NY where there is no exemption in state laws for amateurs. Many states take it further like your above example, and in those states the Federal preemption is not needed.

In the case of NY they say no radio capable of reciving LE period, and make no exemption for hams. the FCC stepped in and said the state of NY had no jurisdiction over any radio used by an amatuer as a transceiver on the amatuer bands.

NY and KY seem to have the worst track record of harrasing hams with legal radios.



Let me say this again : According to the NY law, in NY, licensed amateurs can have transcievers in their vehicles which include LE bands, but they can't have receivers (non-transmitting radios) which nclude LE bands.

If it transmits and receives, good to go. Receives only, no good. 2M xeiver good, bearcat scanner standalone not permissable.

Hey, NYC denies your 2nd amendment right to open carry a firearm down the street, you think they're worried about lawsuits for preventing you from listening to police calls in your car?

I have an amateur license. It specifically lets me transmit on certain bands. The license does not specificically allow me to listen to anything anywhere. NY is not contradicting my amateur license by saying that I can't have a scanner in my car. They however would be interfering with my licensed use if they didn't let me have a transciever in my car, so they let me have a transciever.

I wish it was legal for everyone to have scanners everywhere. I also wish Concealed Carry was nationwide. I'll keep wishing from my spot in NJ where the AW ban sunset won't make life any easier on me, I'll still be prohibited from owning 20 round mags no matter when they were manufactured...
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 9:56:35 AM EST
*sigh*

here's the skinny... from someone IN NY...


you can get a scanner and listen to whatever you'd like (except cellular- all scanners sold now are generally cell blocked but that part of the band is about dead anyway- all cell calls now are higher in freq.)

it is PERFECTLY legal in NY AND NJ.... the problem comes in when you do it driving- at least in NY you cannot have a radio capable of recieving "police band" transmissions in your car UNLESS you are an amature radio operator....

example:
I have my CB (11m band- nowhere near cops), my 2m/70cm dual band radio (can almost recieve cops around here) and my ICOM T-90A tri band which gets the police easily- it is fine for me to have all three in my truck because I'm a ham.... where are you located? I know nassau county police are not trunked... NYC is and no clue about jeresey...

-Roth
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:06:03 AM EST
so what hardware do I have to get to listen into NJ emergency bands?>
and if I can do it, can't terrorists??? Is that a bad thing?
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:33:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 10:47:16 AM EST by BoreSighted]

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:
*sigh*



You're setting someone up for a fall, if they take what you've written literally.

The NY laws are here:

person, not a police officer or peace officer, acting pursuant to his special duties, who equips a motor vehicle with a radio receiving set capable of receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for police use or knowingly uses a motor vehicle so equipped or who in any way knowingly interferes with the transmission of radio messages by the police without having first secured a permit to do so from the person authorized to issue such a permit by the local governing body or Board of the city, town or village in which such person resides, or where such person resides outside of a city or village in a county having a county police department by the Board of Supervisors of such county, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars, or imprisonment not exceeding six months, or both.
Nothing in this Section contained shall be construed to apply to any person who holds a valid Amateur Radio Operator`s License issued by the Federal Communications Commission and who operates a duly licensed portable mobile transmitter and in connection therewith a receiver or receiving set on frequencies exclusively allocated by the Federal Communications Commission to duly licensed radio amateurs.



Read that last paragraph carefully, including the and sections.

I am not certain, I'm not a laywer, but in plain english that pretty much says that if you're a licensed ham, you're good to go with an amateur transceiver in your car, but even if you are a licensed amateur your exemption to the "no scanners in NY" laws is only good so long as there is a transmitter in your car to be used in connection with the receiver, and you should probably carefully read that part about 'frequencies exclusively allocated'

NY law says that amateurs can have receiving equipment in a vehicle so long as they have transmitting equipment in that vehicle, and that they are to be used 'in connection' with each other, and that they must be for the amateur frequencies. Nowhere in this law does it say HAMs can drive around New York with police band scanners (unless you're also driving with a transmitter, then you're within that exception but not the frequency portion). Nowhere does it say that HAMs have national scanner rights in the FCC code either, the FCC code only allows you to transmit on certain bands. It is a misbelief of many that the FCC amateur license gives them the right to carry a scanner anywhere. Read the FCC code and prove me wrong, please.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:01:09 PM EST
To start with I was only talking about NY laws..

that being said- I listed the radios in my vehicle as of right now... two of the three are capable of recieving public service band transmissions...

The question was having a scanner... NOT having one in the vehicle... I stated that there is no problem with that and that the laws only come into effect when in a vehicle... then I stated what you need to do to have those radios in your vehicle LEGALLY...

so basically I said the same thing as you...

-Roth
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:20:52 PM EST
Folks, My question is about a scanner in a home in NJ, start a new thread if you wanna talk 'bout vehicle options. I don't care bout that. I just wanna know what's goin' on in my neighborhood.

now what hardware do i need?
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:45:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Folks, My question is about a scanner in a home in NJ, start a new thread if you wanna talk 'bout vehicle options. I don't care bout that. I just wanna know what's goin' on in my neighborhood.

now what hardware do i need?



Find out what the places you want to listen to use, and then buy the appropriate scanner.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:48:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 12:48:56 PM EST by chapperjoe]

Find out what the places you want to listen to use, and then buy the appropriate scanner.


Great there's the answer I've been looking for
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 12:54:42 AM EST
Let me rephrase so GarandShitter will be happy when he reads this time slowly. The FCC and Amateur radio laws supercede local with regard to Amateur radios and operations ONLY. If it is a ham radio, you are going to be ok if you are willing to fight the fight if necessary and have the Ham ticket. Scanners are not covered by the Amateur regs, cities, counties and states have successfully defended those and can superced Federal in some cases.

Like with any other area of the law where there are conflicts between levels of government, you may get prosecuted by a jurisdiction who thinks they are right. You need to be willing to put up with that in the hope that after you spend a lot of time and money, the final court decision agrees with you.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:49:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Folks, My question is about a scanner in a home in NJ, start a new thread if you wanna talk 'bout vehicle options. I don't care bout that. I just wanna know what's goin' on in my neighborhood.

now what hardware do i need?



research it at www.strongsignals.net
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:58:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 3:13:08 AM EST by Garand_Shooter]

Originally Posted By BoreSighted:

Originally Posted By NUCdt04:
*sigh*



You're setting someone up for a fall, if they take what you've written literally.

The NY laws are here:

person, not a police officer or peace officer, acting pursuant to his special duties, who equips a motor vehicle with a radio receiving set capable of receiving signals on the frequencies allocated for police use or knowingly uses a motor vehicle so equipped or who in any way knowingly interferes with the transmission of radio messages by the police without having first secured a permit to do so from the person authorized to issue such a permit by the local governing body or Board of the city, town or village in which such person resides, or where such person resides outside of a city or village in a county having a county police department by the Board of Supervisors of such county, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars, or imprisonment not exceeding six months, or both.
Nothing in this Section contained shall be construed to apply to any person who holds a valid Amateur Radio Operator`s License issued by the Federal Communications Commission and who operates a duly licensed portable mobile transmitter and in connection therewith a receiver or receiving set on frequencies exclusively allocated by the Federal Communications Commission to duly licensed radio amateurs.



Read that last paragraph carefully, including the and sections.

I am not certain, I'm not a laywer, but in plain english that pretty much says that if you're a licensed ham, you're good to go with an amateur transceiver in your car, but even if you are a licensed amateur your exemption to the "no scanners in NY" laws is only good so long as there is a transmitter in your car to be used in connection with the receiver, and you should probably carefully read that part about 'frequencies exclusively allocated'

NY law says that amateurs can have receiving equipment in a vehicle so long as they have transmitting equipment in that vehicle, and that they are to be used 'in connection' with each other, and that they must be for the amateur frequencies. Nowhere in this law does it say HAMs can drive around New York with police band scanners (unless you're also driving with a transmitter, then you're within that exception but not the frequency portion). Nowhere does it say that HAMs have national scanner rights in the FCC code either, the FCC code only allows you to transmit on certain bands. It is a misbelief of many that the FCC amateur license gives them the right to carry a scanner anywhere. Read the FCC code and prove me wrong, please.



If you read the NY code closely, it only exempts radios that can only transmit AND recieve on amateur frequencies... hence the history of case law that made it nessecary for the ARRL to go to the FCC and ask for the preemption.

Was that the intent of the law? No, but that how some jursidictions read and enforced it because the term exclusivley was in it.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 3:11:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 8:23:13 AM EST by Garand_Shooter]

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Let me rephrase so GarandShitter will be happy when he reads this time slowly. The FCC and Amateur radio laws supercede local with regard to Amateur radios and operations ONLY. If it is a ham radio, you are going to be ok if you are willing to fight the fight if necessary and have the Ham ticket. Scanners are not covered by the Amateur regs, cities, counties and states have successfully defended those and can superced Federal in some cases.

Like with any other area of the law where there are conflicts between levels of government, you may get prosecuted by a jurisdiction who thinks they are right. You need to be willing to put up with that in the hope that after you spend a lot of time and money, the final court decision agrees with you.



sigh........


That not what you said the first time, however.

You said:


Many states, counties, cities prohibit possesion of radios that receive police freqs, can they supercede Federal law. Has yet to be all the way to SCOTUS for a variety of reasons, most places don't enforce because of the ambiguity. The exceptions for Hams in many places are because case has more or less been developed that Amaateur Radio is governed by the FCC Regs and that the Feds are override. Also there are a lot of Ham groups that support LEO and Emergency activities, and although it is of doubtful technical legality, many agencies issue their band radios to Hams for emergency purposes. Normally you have to be licensed for the band you transmit on, but there is a great big "IN EMERGENCIES" loophole that some drive through with marginal definitions of emergency.



You said any that can receive, not scanners, just like the NY law does.

Oh, and for the record there is nothing doubtfull about the legality of the dpeartments issuing hams radios on police frequencies in emergencies or otherwise. So long as the frequency is used for its intended us, public safety, the station licensee can allow whomever they want to use that frequency. Mario at the 7-11 can be given a radio on a little used freq and told to call in of he need shelp if they wanted to. You just have to make sure the number of transmitters n use doesn't exceed teh specified number allowed on the license.

Now is Joe ham went and programmed a radio for the departmenst frequencies, without the station licensee giving permision, if he transmitted he is in violation.

for the record, here is the exemption:

www.afn.org/~afn09444/scanlaws/laws/scanner/pr_91-36-moo.html

highlights:

V. CONCLUSION

13. We hold that state and local laws that preclude the possession in vehicles or elsewhere of amateur radio service transceivers by amateur operators merely on the basis that the transceivers are capable of the reception of public safety, special emergency, or other radio service frequencies, the reception of which is not prohibited by federal law, are inconsistent with the federal objectives of facilitating and promoting the amateur radio service and, more fundamentally, with the federal interest in amateur operator's being able to transmit and receive on authorized amateur service frequencies. We therefore hold that such state and local laws are preempted by federal law.


And yes, if an officer doen't know the law he is trying to enforce you may get itcketed and arrested, but as of yet when this has been used in the defense there have been no known convictions One good thing about the ARRL is the volunteer council program will get you a lawyer who is a ham who vlunteers just for cases like this.

Sad thing is this has been the law since 1993 and people still wrongly get arrested or ticketed.
Top Top