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Posted: 10/10/2004 8:38:59 PM EST
sorry, but i have a hard time believing being gay is simply 'a choice'.

does anyone actually believe that some kid is sitting there thinking, 'gee, girls dont like me, i'm not that popular...so i might as well decide to complicate my life even further and risk being shunned by family and friends and get my ass kicked by ignorant assholes...yeah, that sounds like a great idea.

whenever i hear about these people trying to 'convert' gay people back to being straight, i just have toll my eyes and sigh as to how ignorant people truly are.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:39:32 PM EST
No.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:39:56 PM EST
I have seen gay people try to convert straight people too.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:41:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Taxman:
I have seen gay people try to convert straight people too.



do you honestly think a straight person is going to be convinced to fuck other members of the same sex? this isn't about switching from coke to pepsi here.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:41:04 PM EST
Yes.

Maybe.

Fuck, who cares?
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:41:12 PM EST
like any other mental disorder yes
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:41:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 8:43:34 PM EST by Planerench]
Your first sexual experience can imprint your preference even if it was a molestation. Another reason they (homosexuals) want to lower the age sexuality is presented. Homosexuals commit 20% of the pedophilia but only make up 1-2% of the population. Scary if you think about it. Planerench out.

edit to ditto the mental disorder. Homosexualtiy was an accepted mental disorder until late into the 20th century when PC force a change. Still explains the argument that no one would choose to be queer. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:42:06 PM EST
I think it's a chemical thing they are born with or changes with age.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:42:09 PM EST
some
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:43:46 PM EST
one of my friend's sister is a lesbian, as his father's sister. i know that isnt enough evidence to prove it is genetic, but im just saying.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:46:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 8:53:15 PM EST by Boom_Stick]
It's a behavior choice.
If a behavior is freakish and a small group wanted to force acceptance on the masses, the only way to do it is to deny responsibility, hence: "I cant help I'm a freak, I was BORN that way. Now accept me or I'll scream victim! OR I'll harass, disrupt, intimidate, legeslate, and threaten you."

That can only be gotten away with in these times.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:54:39 PM EST
NO, but they are born stupid.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:55:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Burley:
No.



+1
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 8:57:42 PM EST
Absolutely not. How can you be born gay when you were conceived by heterosexuals? Again, the answer is no. Thus endeth the sermon.
[
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:05:35 PM EST
no, we are born with instincts, and my instincts tell me to find a woman and fuck her, and then raise the child i make, while making more, and supporting them.


not to go find another man and fuck him, and then go adopt some other dudes baby, so i can fuck over the little guys life too.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:09:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:09:18 PM EST
No. They choose to be gay.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:10:32 PM EST
Of course you guys are right. I'm sure one day, each gay consciously decided to become somebody who would be harrassed, insulted, and outcast. I mean, who wouldn't want to have such a horrible life for a bit of sex?

MeagerMouse, I have met stupid gays. I have met smart gays. I have also met gays with a knee-jerk and insulting reaction to something they don't like. Don't worry, you're not alone.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:11:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By poink:
one of my friend's sister is a lesbian, as his father's sister.



Just think, if they lived in West Virginia instead of Colorado they'd be the same person...
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:12:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Burley:
No.




+1

And it is an abnormality of human nature also.


Sgatr15
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:14:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 9:16:20 PM EST by Boom_Stick]

Originally Posted By The_Breakfast_Fox:
Of course you guys are right. I'm sure one day, each gay consciously decided to become somebody who would be harrassed, insulted, and outcast. I mean, who wouldn't want to have such a horrible life for a bit of sex?



That argument doesn't hold water. Look at all the freaks in the world besides homo's who wear their scorn like a badge of honor. They still do what they do despite harassment, insults and being outcasts.
They get something out of their freakish behavior that outweighs the scorn.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:16:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 9:19:15 PM EST by The_Breakfast_Fox]

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:

Originally Posted By The_Breakfast_Fox:
Of course you guys are right. I'm sure one day, each gay consciously decided to become somebody who would be harrassed, insulted, and outcast. I mean, who wouldn't want to have such a horrible life for a bit of sex?



That argument doesn't hold water. Look at all the freaks in the world besides homo's who wear their scorn like a badge of honor. They still do what they do despite harassment, insults and being outcasts.



{EDIT} You mean like us evil gun-owners? Hell. Every group's going to seem like a freak to another group. Why do we keep "wearing our scorn like a badge of honor"? Because that's what allows us to keep our guns and sport. Gays do it to push for change and acceptance. It's not very different from the blacks in the '60s.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:17:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:18:54 PM EST
Ive talked to a straight man who was once gay.

He is certain people are not born gay and that its a choice which is affected by worldly situations.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:20:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 10:01:03 PM EST by Boom_Stick]

Originally Posted By The_Breakfast_Fox:

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:

Originally Posted By The_Breakfast_Fox:
Of course you guys are right. I'm sure one day, each gay consciously decided to become somebody who would be harrassed, insulted, and outcast. I mean, who wouldn't want to have such a horrible life for a bit of sex?



That argument doesn't hold water. Look at all the freaks in the world besides homo's who wear their scorn like a badge of honor. They still do what they do despite harassment, insults and being outcasts.



Could you give me an example? Not meaning to sound confrontational, but I'm curious.



Example of what? Freakish behavior? There's all kinds of freakish behaviors in this world that seperates it's partakers from the healthy and normal.

The gun issue doesn't hold water either. For YEARS AND YEARS the psychological community considered homosexuality a mental disorder till the homos got togather and threatened, harassed and legeslated until they they gave in and stopped saying homosexuality was an unhealthy mental issue. Now it's political suicide and UN-PC to say homo's are freaks.
There's never been that kind of attitude towards guns or owners except from the libs, and they're no where near credible. Shooting guns is no more an unhealthy disorder than mowing your lawn.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:20:37 PM EST
No. Some people are just born stupid. There is only an X and a Y chromosome. Sorry no gay ones. Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. Gay relationships go against genetics. If it was hereditary homos would have died out along time ago. Why? Pillow biters and donut bumpers can't have kids.

Besides if it really was genetic why do most of the gays act like women and the lesbians act like men? Come on now, drag queens and female mullets are a lifestyle choice not genes.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:21:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:24:55 PM EST
It's complicated, like everything.

True fags are born that way. Think back to when you were 12 or 13, did you have to conciously think, " hmm...., should I suck dick or eat pussy?" No, you knew the answer to that question by nature. Same goes for fags, they're born with some defect or variation that causes homosexuality, they can't help it.

However, there is a complication to this scenario. In a society where behavior is 100% destigmatized people might well do anything. There are lots of straight chicks who will get it on with other chicks because it feels good, it's a fun three way with their boyfriend and its socially okay in their circle. Is it nature? No, it's a choice. There may be some male cocksuckers in other situations who are choosing a behavior as well. I haven't seen that though.

Personally I don't really care what consenting adults do. Chicks two at a time is a good thing. Male homosexuality is something I'd rather not hear about.

For what it's worth I believe male homosexuals are more prone to pedophilia and bear watching. I oppose the gay movement to normalize fag couples as if it were the same as legitimate marriage, but the bottom line is people can do what they want behind closed doors. It's called freedom.


Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:30:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:

Originally Posted By The_Breakfast_Fox:
Of course you guys are right. I'm sure one day, each gay consciously decided to become somebody who would be harrassed, insulted, and outcast. I mean, who wouldn't want to have such a horrible life for a bit of sex?



That argument doesn't hold water. Look at all the freaks in the world besides homo's who wear their scorn like a badge of honor. They still do what they do despite harassment, insults and being outcasts.
They get something out of their freakish behavior that outweighs the scorn.




Agreed! Some people like a dramatic, unhealthy and painful lifestyle. I know many gays. I don't care what they choose to do with their life. It's a frame of mind and we all have our crosses to bear. Like drug addiction, violent behavior or lust for drama. We are not "born" this way. It's a choice. We all have some form of problem and I believe being gay is one form. I also agree that most gays were molested at some point in their life. I havn't met one gay that wasn't molested and I have yet to see 1 healthy gay relationship. Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:35:42 PM EST
Maybe .........

I've always felt like a Lesbian trapped in a Man's body
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 9:53:53 PM EST
It's a human nature thing. I think the only way you can tell if you are either straight or gay is based on how you get turned on. For example, if you see a great-looking person of the opposite sex, you either get a hard-on (if you're a male) or some sexual juices flowing out of your thingamajig (if you're a female). That means you know you're straight. If you're body responds the same way, but towards the same sex, you know you're gay. In my case, I know I'm straight.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:03:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 10:06:34 PM EST by ScoutOut]
It's the age old nature vs. nurture question. In nature animals will naturally go for the opposite sex for reasons of procreation. Human beings are also born with such instincts. But humans are the only species that have been able to relegate the idea of procreation to a secondary purpose of sex. For the most part we do it for fun. It's a leisure activity. And each person's idea of fun is different. As is each person's idea of what is attractive. One guy may like blondes. One may like redheads. One may like other guys. In all of these choices it is something in that person's development that has made them attracted to that. No guy is born with a preference for blondes. And no guy is born with an attraction to other guys (this is contrary to nature). For some reason or another this person has developed this preference. I don't want to go as far as to say molestation. But something in their development has caused this.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:14:49 PM EST
I believe that they are born gay. I have met a lot of homosexuals, and I knew of no reason for any of them to switch teams. Certainly some people can and do, but human sexuality is a weird thing, especially in females.

I really couldn't care less if someone is gay, as long as he doesn't hit on me.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:21:56 PM EST
I lot of you folks, who I must say have absolutely no knowledge of the subject to begin with, would be singing a very different tune when someone you care about turns out to be gay.

Look at Dick Cheney's daughter... Oooo... I bet ol' Dick hates that little freak.

Its fine for all yall to sit on your asses and piss n' moan about "cocksuckers" and "fags" on the internet when you fail to realize that there are plenty of them not only on your side politically but also on Arfcom itself.


/rant


- BG
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:26:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:29:36 PM EST
I agree with Troy.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:36:34 PM EST

Are people born gay?



No, they are sucked into it.

Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:39:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:39:31 PM EST
H-E-L-L N-O
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 10:40:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/10/2004 10:44:10 PM EST by BUCC_Guy]

Originally Posted By MudBug:

Are people born gay?



No, they are sucked into it.





The risk of being ostracised by one's own family and friends is such an attractive sales pitch! Couple that with the risk of getting your face rearranged by some hillbilly, why wouldn't anyone want to join in the fun?

Whats with the constant bashing here anyway... yall still feel guilty about a circle jerk 12 years ago? Need to puff out your chests and look manly on the internet?

Pffft.

- BG


EDIT: Next step of manliness: Calling BUCC_Guy names for opposing your position.
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:13:16 PM EST
BG... you have a loved one that's gay or something?

Bashing is one thing... but I don't support gays or their destructive lifestyle because it's WRONG...
Link Posted: 10/10/2004 11:52:43 PM EST
yes. Some people are born gay. I think others make the choice for various reasons, abuse probably being most prevalent.

But some people are definately born gay. I don't think it's a mental disease but a physiological one.


can you imagine trying to switch from wanting to hit girls to hitting boys? I couldn't do it, no matter what.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 2:01:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:

Originally Posted By MudBug:

Are people born gay?



No, they are sucked into it.





The risk of being ostracised by one's own family and friends is such an attractive sales pitch! Couple that with the risk of getting your face rearranged by some hillbilly, why wouldn't anyone want to join in the fun?

Whats with the constant bashing here anyway... yall still feel guilty about a circle jerk 12 years ago? Need to puff out your chests and look manly on the internet?

Pffft.

- BG


EDIT: Next step of manliness: Calling BUCC_Guy names for opposing your position.



Empty argument. Yes, they do choose a lifestyle that may get themselves shunned. At one time it was shamefull and the practice stayed hidden. In our modern culture they allow it to be known publicly if they see a benefit. Heck, I work in broadcasting and I am ostracised more for being a Christian conservative than I have ever treated a homosexual for being queer. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 2:04:54 AM EST
To me it's an illness like any other, except that the behavior CAN be controlled by choice.

It's not a matter of rights. If someone had a disorder that prevented them from holding their bowels, you wouldn't see them holding parades about how proud they are that they shit themselves.

You wanna be a pole-smoker or carpet -muncher? Go ahead, but please don't foist your disfunction on the rest of us when it is so easy to avoid doing so.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 2:18:37 AM EST
I think human sexuality is a bell curve. Societal pressurs are greater on males and tend to push them toward one extreme or the other moreso than women.

Being straight, bi, or gay is not a choice, its where you are on the bell curve.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:35:11 AM EST
I read an interesting paper on the causes of homosexuality about ten years ago that made about as much sense as any other I've heard.

The writer was a Brit psychologist who'd been studying homosexual behavior in boys schools in England and some predominately Muslim countries (Where the sexes are seperated in many cases during their early education years) and what he proposed seemed to make sense (At least to me).

He started by describing cases of "Precocious puberty" where a child would begin to undergo the hormonal/physical changes associated with puberty years in advance of what would be considered normal for their peers (menstrating 9 yr old girls and 10 yr old boys who needed to shave ect). These cases become identified because they're (The effects) easy to see and measure. True, "Full-Blown" cases are relatively rare.

What he then suggested (And again, this was only a theory) was that there were a much LARGER group of children who began early hormonal developement that was not "Quite" enough to initiate physical changes BUT WAS enough to cause them to start viewing their playmates erotically (He listed studies which had shown advanced hormone levels in kids as young as 5-6yrs old). They had enough of a hormonal surge to start fantasizing romantically about those children they played with every day.

The problem with that was that before the "Traditional" years of puberty MOST children are in homo-SOCIAL communities (Little boys play with other little boys and the same for little girls). When the kid starts to see his playmates as romantic objects (again because he's got an 'Overload" of hormones going on inside) he's still surrounded primarily by other little boys in his social group. They're the ones he "Connects" with affectionately.

It doesn't mean it happens everytime a youngster is in this situation because his or her social environment will be different in some measure to any other childs but in the end, the number affected AND who go on to identify themselves as "Gay" as an adult may be close to whatever the population of gays is as a percentage of the population as a whole.

One of the interesting little "Reinforcements" to his argument were his studies of boys and girls in artificially maintained homo-social environments (Boys schools, Madrassa's ect) up to and beyond the "normal" puberty ages and the statistically higher incidence (Almost twice the national average in some cases) of homo-sexual "Identification" (Either saying they were gay or admitting to being attracted to the same sex romantically while still considering themselves heterosexual).

Anyway, like I said, made about as much sense as anything to me because I have a hell of a time (As some others here have stated) believing that it's a "Choice" in any sense that I use that word.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:44:19 AM EST
No, they are molested as children.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 3:58:26 AM EST
I don't mind gay people. They're complete freaks of nature but otherwise harmless leftist wimpies with no significant affect on anything but viruses and a respectable Will&Grace fan base. It's not like they can breed so let em run around in dresses playing grabass all they want.

I think the whole mess boils down to family values, or the lack there of.

Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:01:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hokie:
I don't mind gay people. They're complete freaks of nature but otherwise harmless leftist wimpies with no significant affect on anything but viruses and a respectable Will&Grace fan base. It's not like they can breed so let em run around in dresses playing grabass all they want.

I think the whole mess boils down to family values, or the lack there of.




Not that harmless. They're allowed to adopt now, which I think is wrong. The definition of "suitable environment" has been expanded too far.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:06:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Planerench:
Your first sexual experience can imprint your preference even if it was a molestation. Another reason they (homosexuals) want to lower the age sexuality is presented. Homosexuals commit 20% of the pedophilia but only make up 1-2% of the population. Scary if you think about it. Planerench out.

edit to ditto the mental disorder. Homosexualtiy was an accepted mental disorder until late into the 20th century when PC force a change. Still explains the argument that no one would choose to be queer. Planerench out.



Good point Planewrench, I did'nt know the numbers but, (almost) everytime you see a case involving pedophila it's a homo.
Link Posted: 10/11/2004 4:10:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/11/2004 4:11:29 AM EST by johnnyrebel]
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