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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/12/2004 9:55:34 AM EST
Does the fact that someone is/was in some branch of the military mean that they are more trustworthy? I'm not interested in the nature vs. nurture side of it (meaning whether honest people like to join the military or are created by joining the military), but simply weather or not a soldier/sailor/whatever is more, equally or less likely to be a liar, cheat, theif, or other type of degenerate.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:57:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:59:19 AM EST
There will ALWAYS be a few bad apples no matter what or where your talking about. The military will be no exception, but I will say this- I have always felt that a person in uniform is like a family memeber to me. I would be more inclined to trust a person of our armed forces than some of the shit stains that walk this earth everyday.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:05:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 10:06:33 AM EST by Grivo_Mak]

Locally, many of our sailors are burglars and drug dealers and many of our corpsman and pilots are sex offenders.

I tend to be more trusting of Captains and above although I have arrested one.
I've never had to arrest any crypto people so they must screen them pretty well.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:07:53 AM EST
In my experience, though, ROTC and GI Bill students study harder and work more diligently.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:11:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
In my experience, though, ROTC and GI Bill students study harder and work more diligently.

I would tend to agree to an extent. I have several friends that were in the Marines, and have squandered their GI bill money and have nothing to show for it. They are now in pretty much dead-end jobs and are generally pretty miserable carreer wise. However when I was in college some of my friends were former Marines who were there on GI bill money. I think it had as much to do with the fact that they were generally 4-8 years older than everyone else, since the other older students seemed to share their same dedication.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:16:30 AM EST
In the case of GI Bill students, I agree that older (read: more mature) has a great deal to do with those students performing better. I'm sure that ROTC students are also under considerable pressure to maintain good grades and to keep their noses clean.

However, I would not suppose, upon further reflection, that having once worn the uniform does not necessarily predispose a person to behave in some prescribed fashion later in life. Just as there are convicts that lead a clean, respectable, productive life after prison, so there are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines that will disrespect the honor that they once served to defend.

Takes all kinds, I guess.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:19:29 AM EST
No more, no less....

I have put my time into the military, and now I work in a 9-1-1 dispatch center, what I have found is people that are scum are scum no matter what they wear, That also goes for Police officers and Firefighters/EMT's....In fact in our area there have been more rapes commited by on duty LEO's than off duty Navy guys in the last 3 years...( dont even get me started on the crap a couple of the Firefighters have been pulling over the last few years.) This is not a bash to anyone, just a simple statement that evil people are evil no matter where you look.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:20:38 AM EST
NO....and Skerry is a prime example.

Personally, I know at least 3 Vietnam vets that are scumbags and if they told me it's daytime outside I'd check just to be sure, and I know at least 4 other people that were cold war enlistees that came out as bad or worse than when they went in-and their express purpose in joining was "to straighten out their lives".

1 was Air Force and was a poster child for domestic abuse
2 were Army and came out with WORSE drinking problems than before they enlisted
1 was an ex-Marine that got a dishonorable discharge for drugs, came home and thought he was the baddest (at 5'5", 150LB) motherfucker west of the Mississippi-especially when it came to interaction with cops, who gladly used his head and back for baton practice.

I have, however, had the pleasure to meet quite a few Vietnam vets as well as cold warriors that are as fine an individual as anyone can meet. As mentioned previously, there are assholes, dirtbags, zealots and flat out criminals in ALL walks of life.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:22:25 AM EST
If we're talking about the average level of dishonesty and criminal activity in the population at large, versus just those in the military, my GUESS would be that it is slightly lower in the military - simply because there are a lot of criminals and felons out there who either cannot join (because of a criminal records) or do not have the self-discipline to join. I'd be willing to bet that if such data could be collected (which would be hard to find) there would be a significant difference.

Of course that doesn't mean that any one individual you meet from the military is going to be more or less honest that some individual non-military person you meet.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:25:31 AM EST
NO...all you have to do is look at Kerry and Gore...
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:27:11 AM EST
I don't think the military is designed to instill morality into an individual. They will most likely conform to the going standard, but will more of than not, they will not truly change.

It's nature and nurture. Nature, obviously being born with, and nurture has more to do with up-bringing. Learned behavior seldom changes one's morality after adulthood. At that point, it's more rote than anything.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:31:27 AM EST
I read in the Tampa Tribune yesterday a 2ndLt(cant remember the service) was caught looting after the storm. He apparently stole plywood from a construction site and was charged with grand theft.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:22:21 AM EST
It all depends. (yeah, I know, the generic answer) Every group has their 10% of shit bags. Even the Corps. That 10% are EX-Marines.

I give every person that served a +1 up front. After that, it depends on the person. I see a lot of people who served, but were shit bags, try to play the, "I was a Vet" card. I think less of those people than those who never served. Keep in mind, I don't think less of people that did not serve. In my mind it's kind of like being a bad cop.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:32:27 AM EST
That has not been my experience with renters. They are every bit as likely to not pay the rent then skip out in the middle of the night as anyone.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:34:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:36:37 AM EST
I think you have to be more specific. First termers vs those who have reenlisted. It's been my experience that the scummy folks don't finish out their first term or are put off by the military and get out after their initial obligation is up.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 11:37:33 AM EST
one thing I have noticed is the drinking, you work your ass off then you go out and drink, the young guys who probably didn't even drink back home learn this and sometimes take it too far.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 12:54:42 PM EST
Not at all.
It's the system of military ethos that keeps things in check (mostly).
There are civilian companies that actually try to uphold ethics and integrity, as well.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 1:11:29 PM EST
I have been out for exactly 10 years on Tuesday. I have held a few different jobs since my discharge and in speaking to different managers and HR folks, I have gotten the following feedback about vets:

Easier to train;

Less "issues" surrounding drug abuse or drinking;

Less frequently counseled for violations of company policy;

Less "personality conflicts" with co-workers and staff;

Less issues with personal grooming and hygiene - Being in the technology business, I have a lot of "unkempt" personnel.

All anecdotal, but interesting, nonetheless.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 3:56:18 PM EST
Yes, in the elite branches, ie. SEALS, Special Forces, Submarines, Para Rescue, Force Recon, ect. Volunteers within a volunteer force.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:12:50 PM EST
I can't answer your question. I can tell you we encourage Army values - Loayalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. These are things that in most instances must be taught. Some folks come to us already having these traits. The way you remember all those is the first letter of each word reminds you of "LDRSHIP"
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:23:10 PM EST
On average, I would say yes.

Unfortunately, there are great non-military people and worthless former-military who throw off the numbers....
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:25:22 PM EST
From a vet... no
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:26:24 PM EST
When I was growing up and living with my parents we had a neighbor who was a career soldier, he had around 17 years in the Army. This man had no problems stealing from the Army, some of the things he brought home were, gasoline in 5 gallon cans to put into their cars, washer and dryer, tools, c-rations, gallons of CLP Breakfree, and more. He seemed to be proud of the stuff he was stealing, was always showing me things he got. So yes there are dishonest people in the military.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:28:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Does the fact that someone is/was in some branch of the military mean that they are more trustworthy?

Only slightly.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:29:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By GaryM:
From a vet... no

+1 from an MP vet... (saw a lot of skullduggery)
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:35:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Does the fact that someone is/was in some branch of the military mean that they are more trustworthy? I'm not interested in the nature vs. nurture side of it (meaning whether honest people like to join the military or are created by joining the military), but simply weather or not a soldier/sailor/whatever is more, equally or less likely to be a liar, cheat, theif, or other type of degenerate.

You get alot of the dregs/scum of life in the military, ALL branches. That being said the AF has the least amount.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:38:17 PM EST
GENERALLY SPEAKING, our military reflects our society.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:42:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:46:12 PM EST
yes and no

As a lot, what comes into the military is a reflection if the society it comes from.

However, those who make a career of it will tend to be of a higher cut... those who arfe that generally cannot make a career in the military.

That said, I cannot think of any profession that I would find more trustworthy.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:46:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 4:53:35 PM EST by Alien]
No. Not at all. Remember, all military personel used to be civilians. They aren't above anybody else. Just like how not everybody from the ghetto is bad, not everybody in the military is honorable/good/trustworthy. Hell in the bicycle theft thread, somebody had their bike stolen from in front of their house on a military base.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:52:24 PM EST

In my experience, military towns are some of the worst places to live.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:02:51 PM EST
Better at understanding what their role in an organization is? YES

More honest? "Not necessarily"

I WILL think more of a person who has worked in a "stressful" military environment.

Rarely do I have to explain what I expect of an employee who has been in the Military.

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