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Posted: 4/24/2001 12:02:49 AM EDT
I'm looking for a quality AR that is accurate and reliable.  I'm new to AR's, but not new to guns in general, so please bare with me.

Not to take the fun out of it, but I don't have the time to build a rifle from scratch.  So would it pay to shell out more cash to buy a quality set now, and modify later?  Or is their accuracy/quality overrated and can I do better tuning a cheaper gun?

Ultimately, I'd like to have a complete carbine (16") and a complete target model (20-24").  Or at least one lower and a target and carbine upper.

Also, If the Wilson or Baer are worth the money, both claim tight tolerances as selling point.  Does this make it more difficult to fit other components later?

Seeing how I a new to this, any other info would be appreciated!  Especially if I'm looking in the wrong direction.

Link Posted: 4/24/2001 12:19:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 12:22:10 AM EDT
Wilson and Les Baer definately make real nice guns. The can keep up with the best of them.

Personally, I would never buy one of theirs as long as Bushmaster is around. B.M.'s best guns are every bit as good, they just lack that designer label. The Wilson and Baer guns come with some cool stuff, like match triggers and the like.

I like to hand pick my upgrades, and so having the "luxury" of someone else planning my rifle for me is no luxury at all. At least for me.

Not that a Bushmaster requires any upgrades in the first place, but there's always a new toy just waiting for you to try on your rifle. Why not just get an extremely well built Bushmaster, which drives tacks right out of the box? Then YOU can decide on whether a $175.00 match trigger is needed or not. You can also afford to get some cool accessories with the cash you save.

You may not think so now, but trust me, down the road, when you see how incredibly easy it is to re-fit your rifle with the stuff you actually need, you'll be glad you hadn't spent all that money to let Les Baer and Wilson make those decisions for you.

P.S.- If spending oodles of money for an out-of-the-box masterpiece is your plan, I'd throw Knights Armament on the top of your list. Otherwise, look forward to easily customizing your Bushmaster in to THE rifle of your dreams.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 12:25:00 AM EDT
P.S.- Another thing to keep in mind is that Bushmaster is renowned for incredible customer service and has a ton of parts online to satisfy every whim.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 11:26:49 AM EDT
Bushmaster schmushmaster. Blah Blah. Take Garyowen up on his offer to put something together for you. He has the stuff & the knowledge. I use DPMS, Wilson & Cavalry Arms almost exclusively. You can pay more for parts & barrels, but you probably can't shoot well enough to get the good out of it. Unless you are willing to hand load or shoot only one brand of ammo (Federal Gold Medal Match is what most recomend to get the sub MOA gurantee)then you will only get at best MOA. I handload & use good parts. I get 1/2 - 1/4 moa out of my heavy barrel stuff. DPMS, Wilson & Cavalry arms. BTW a good trigger is a must.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 11:33:43 AM EDT
I got a bushmaster,love it.I dont think ya can go wrong with them.

I have never dealt with Garry personaly
but all I hear is good things about him,
plus he is a fellow AR15.com'er
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 4:44:07 AM EDT
Bushmaster is nice as a general quality high volume gun but I think the ArmaLites still top the whole bunch.  You can build a decent rifle with parts from the aftermarket sellers too but have to be careful whose parts you get.  The aftermarket guys have to buy where they can at the moment.  You get a warranty and good quality from the bigger factories (except Colt, which I'm still wondering about).

When the Y2K and Kali stuff was going on Baer and Wilson were hit with the same low pistol sales that's hitting the other gun companies and they're rolling out rifles to use their names.  Even though you can build a great pistol (Baer) or a good pistol (Wilson) it doesn't mean you know a thing about rifles.  I haven't heard anybody say anything especially hot about either company.  You can sure pay a lot for them, but what are they really doing for the money?
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 5:18:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 5:19:07 AM EDT
Make yourself a list of the top gunsmiths who specialize in the AR series...call them on the phone or send them an email asking them what kind of lower and upper they build on and why...make a list of pluses and minuses...you are probably going to end up with Bushmaster/Armalite/Colt/DPMS/Rock River.....with LAR-Grizzly movin up on the outside (sorry if I left anybodies pet out wasnt intentional)
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