What is this on again, off again game that the Saudis are playing with the United States?

The question is rather simple and straightforward - Will the US military be permitted to use their bases in Saudi Arabia to support the 'crusade' against Bin-Laden?

Seems a pretty easy question to answer!

Maybe the US forces are o.k. when they're protecting Saudi oilfields from Iraqi attack, but they're not o.k. when being used to find and punish the terrorists behind the Attack on America!

The story is to be found at:
[url]http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/10/01/wsaud01.xml[/url]

BTW, here's a link to a discussion on this board regarding the Saudis' assistance to that Bin-Laden bastard - [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=51473[/url]

I thought I needed to add that link to our discussion today.[:D]

Eric The(Pro-Israel,Remember?)Hun[>]:)]

Like Waldo said, the Saudis, Pakastanis and others are all walking a fine line.  

Align with the US too much, and cause a coup, aka Iran.  Don't align enough, and lose the benefits.

Be patient.  The adminstrations of those borderline countries see the light and will do their best to cooperate.

With friends like Saudi Arabia, who needs the French.

While I was in Saudi Arabia during and after the Gulf War, the Saudis seemed to want us there.  I hung around with a few of the guys on aircrews in the Saudi Air Force who had trained with us in the States.  These guys seemed to love Americans.  I did learn though, that the general populace of Saudi citizens view most foreigners simply as imported labor.  This is because getting a visa to go there does not happen unless one is going there to work.  The Saudis viewed American soldiers and airmen as simply hired gun slingers.

The Saudis are "on our side" only when it suits them.

Just like Israel and every other nation on earth.

Why single out Israel?

Eric The(WasItSomethingISaid?)Hun[>]:)]

I've been woofing about the Saudi's since just after the attacks.
The gist of my post was "and when the trail leads back to the Saudi's what will we do ??"
The Royal family at a minimum, a bare minimum allows the funding of Osama Bin through his family plus open fund raising activities.
The Saudi position is to allow funding there so as to keep the terrorist out of Saudi Arabia.
Now there sorry asses are in a "crack" and speaking from both sides of their mouth.
[-!-]

I just thought it needed to be said, given the tone and content of some other recent threads.

Bingo!

Jarhead_22, I think I get your drift.

Eric The(......)Hun[>]:)]

Of course, I've got no special love for the Saudis either. Recall that chaplains with American forces there are not allowed to wear their badge of office, be it the Cross or Star of David, so as not to offend the delicate Saudi Islamic sensibilities.

Actually, everything I've read and heard has been that right now the Older members of the Royal Court support the U.S. on this.

However, the Younger members of the Royal Court are actually supporters of Bin Laden!  And will no longer be an allie of the U.S. when they come into power.



Edited because I can't spell WAF!

Not really.  England has stood by us when a lot of others did not.  Israel helped us immeasurably by not counter-attacking Iraq in response to the Scud attacks during the Gulf War.

I've got to hand it to the Brits, they must have dug up Winston Churchill's spine and had it implanted into Tony Blair. Of course, we'll never know what kind of back-channel deals made this stand possible, will we?

And if you think the Israelis offered freely to stand by and let coalition forces take on Saddam as Scuds targeted Tel Aviv, you've got another think coming. They got Patriot missile batteries by the boatload, and God only knows what else, when George the First went to them on his knees begging to keep them from retaliating and splitting the Arab faction out of the coalition.

The latest word (Last Night) was that we can not use Saudi Arabia to launch an attack against any "Islamic or Arab" country, but, we can use their "Air Space".

The only way I can see around this is to attack a "Non-Arab" country such as "France" and then attack "Afghanistan" with any left over ordnance from "French" airspace and then return to Saudi Arabia and land by using their "Air Space".

Do we have anything that can carry out that kind of mission?

This whole "Arab" coalition looks to be awfully shakey. We may have to do it all from the Aircraft Carriers and Diego Garcia. The former Soviet Republics seem to be waffling also.

"Are the Saudis really OUR allies?"

When I first saw that question posed by Eric (the pro-Israel) Hun [>]:)] , I had to first figure out what ERIC meant by "OUR".  By "OUR ALLY" did Eric mean Israel's Ally or did he mean the US's Ally?  Hard to figure out when that question comes from someone with "confused loyalties".

I think Waldo and fight4yourrights summed up the precarious situation of the Saudis pretty well!

Eric would like you to think the Saudi Government continues to support bin Lauden.  But he fails to point out that bin Lauden, and others like him, present as great a danger to the Saudi Government as they do to the US.

Yes, the Saudi Government (Royal Family) supported bin Laden's activities in Afghanistan against the Russians in the 80's (guess what.....so did our CIA!)!

The rift between bin Laden and the Saudi Royal Family began after Sadam's invasion of Quwait and American troops were stationed in Suadi Arabia.  Bin Laden wanted no foreign troops and proposed to protect the country with his fanatical supporters.  The Royal Family said "NO"!  Bin Laden kept pressing and was told by the Royal Familiy to "SHUT THE FUG UP"!  Bin Laden refused and was placed under house arrest.

Bin Laden then fled from Saudi Arabia to the Sudan, where he continued to agitate.  The Saudi's revoked his citizenship. Bin Laden kept talking his sheet!

In 1993(?) the Royal Family had enough of his crap and Saudi Intell tried to have bin Laden "whacked" in the Sudan.  They failed!  Now, bin Laden was REALLY peesed off!

As you can see, there's not much love lost between Osama Bin Laden and the Saudi Government!

Does he have individual supporters in Saudi Arabia?..... Probably!  But he has individual supporters from every country with a large Islamic population in the entire world!

Eric likes to point out how people in Islamic coutries were "dancing in the streets" when they heard of the tragedies in the US.  But, I'm not sure if Eric, and others that think like him, didn't do a little celebrating themselves.  Because NOW, he can make his enemies YOURS! And Eric's got a lot of enemies that could very well prove to be OUR Allies in the long run!

We need to pick our own fights!  Not let others pick them for US!

DaMan

Edited to get Erics favorite Icon to show!
         

Of course it's fine and dandy when we attack another arab muslim country ON THEIR BEHALF. It's just a question of who needs the help. They are not friends in any way - just people we deal with.

Screw 'em, the Saudis are on the Saudis side and nobody elses, just like every other ball-less country.  We are the only ones that get into other peoples business and half the time it is somebody asking us for help and then voting against us in the next trade debate at the UN.
Ok, my flaming is done,
Ice

Such as... ?

To understand Saudi Arabia's support or non-support of Bin-Laden, you can review this story
located at:[url]abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/taliban991029.html[/url]

[b]Money From Saudi Arabia[/b]

"Osama bin Laden is reportedly is receiving millions of dollars from Saudi Arabian businessmen.

"USA Today reported today that U.S. intelligence officials have obtained a Saudi government audit showing recent transfers from Saudi Arabia’s largest bank to charities that serve as fronts for Bin Laden.

"The intelligence officials tell the newspaper the payments are 'protection money,' aimed at staving off attacks on the businessmen’s properties.

"Saudi multimillionaire Bin Laden is reportedly estranged from his family, which runs Saudi Arabia’s largest construction company.

"Bin Laden has called for the overthrow of the Saudi government."

Do you think for a minute if the 'funds' paid to Bin Laden were not given with the express approval of the Saud royal family, those particular 'businessmen' would not be in some Saudi prison, awaiting beheading after the next day's morning prayers?

Think about it! What attacks have been launched against Saudi Abrabia or Saudi targets in the Gulf Region, following Bin-Laden's expulsion from Saudi Arabia? [b]None, None, None![/b]

So [u]others[/u] might say that Saudi Arabia and the Bin-Laden group are at odds with each other, but isn't it strange that Bin-Laden can reach his filthy hand across the waters to commit an outrageous act against the United States, but can't seem to be able to hurt the Saudis in his own ballpark, just across the Gulf, for some inexplicable reason?

Get real!

Eric The(F***TheOthers)Hun[>]:)]

From an old Arab proverb: The struck dog barks!

Eric The(IfYouKnowWhatIMean!)Hun[>]:)]

Hey Eric, wonder if we will hear from DuhMan now that you provided him the article?

Sorry, RikWriter, but I have learned that the reason we must suffer fools gladly is that they come in such large numbers. And seldom, if ever, do they realize the absolute inanity of their positions.

They're kinda like a persistent boil on the rump of humanity. They cause a lot of needless attention, but for all the wrong reasons.

And when they're gone, we can all feel so much better!

The 'struck dog' is merely licking his wounds, he'll be back. Make no mistake about that.

Eric The(ThisBoilIsAStubbornOne)Hun[>]:)]

Why am I SO surprised????!!! Eric (the admitted pro-Israeli Hun) [>]:)] and alliance with Ryk- (I love homos in the US Military) Writer! How could THAT BE?

Oh, I'm SO dismayed! Hahahaha!

DaMan

Hey, Eric and Ryk, you guys make use of very unusual "idioms" that MOST Americans aren't familiar with!  Where did you guys pick those up???!!

Just curious!!!! DaMan

You know, folks, the more I think about it, the more I've come to realize that anyone who needs direction to an Afrika Korps website, simply in order to obtain the dreadful symbols of a nation that caused the outpouring of so much American blood on foreign shores, and delights in finding the Palm Tree with its hateful Swastika for God-knows-what purposes is simply a poor misguided youth, who has lost his way in this world.

Either that or he's a friggin' Nazi skinhead, who was simply looking for a good tatoo to put on his boyfriend's butt! The same boyfriend he calls 'Poland' and 'violates' happily and repeatedly while singing 'Das Horst Wessel Lied' to the tops of his friggin' lungs!

But then I could be wrong, [i]nicht wahr?[/i][:D]

Eric The(TalkAboutLoyaltyOaths,GottVerdammtEsel!)Hun[>]:)]

Hmmm! And you guys (Ryk and Eric) both use SUCH unusual IDIOMATIC expressions!  Very UNUSUAL for the typical US citizen!  Why is that?

Answer, please!

DaMan

Those fuckers have no clue what to do, let em rot in hell.

Oh, been stalking me, Eric?  Hahahahaha!

PS - I've researched the Confederate Army and the Apache Nation! I'm probably a "red neck" and an "Indian lover"!

You, sir, are rediculous!

Daman  

Well, they say that one of the benefits of being a complete and total idiot is that you're constantly surprised by things that normal, intelligent people take for granted.
Congratulations.

No, Duh, I said you were an "idiot" not an "idiom."  But I can understand where you might misread it.

If somebody would be too short minded to say that the Israeli, as a reward for their non intervention in the Gulf War, got the Patriot, I am pleased to remind a couple of FACTS:

1)The Patriot were no acquired by any Israeli govt. and were manned by US personell.

2)The Patriot just simply DIDN'T WORK. I am writing from a house in Israel that was missed of only 100 mt. from a SCUD that the Patriot should stop.

Shalom

Who knows, maybe the Palm Tree with Swastika has become a fashionable accessory among certain young men that deal in the 'rough trade' aspect of their own sexualty.

Eric The(WerWeiss,WerWeiss?)Hun[>]:)]

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth! Not only were Patriots there on Israeli soil, they were manned by experienced US Army crews. And you're complaining about that?



The Patriot missiles scored many hits on Scuds, but didn't always completely obliterate the missile or its payload. It was the best we had.

Hmmm. Let's see now, Afrika Korps, Confederates, and Apaches, what do they have in common????

Well, at first blush I would say that all three have been at war with the United States.

Maybe it is time for some loyalty checks, after all.

Eric The(No,YouCan'tLetPinheadedNancyBoysDictateWhatWeDo)Hun[>]:)]

Smoked you guys out! Ryk and Eric! Love it!

DaMan

'Smoking guys' seems to be something of a pleasure for certain misguided youths in these troublous times!

Eric The(SomeEvenProclaimTo'Loving'It!)Hun[>]:)]

Bat as one of Norman descent, if you need any help with France, Iam interested in recovering the family lands that were illegally taken by the King of Fronce.
As for Jarhead, do you knees bend at all?

Eric (the America after Israel) friggin Hun [>]:)]

Screw you and the horse you rode in on!

America first! If you don't like that, go to Israel!

DaMan  

My friend, you need to explain that question. To what are you referring?

Smoked me?  How? By the fact that I descended to your level long enough to inform you of the fact that you are an idiot?  Okay, golly gee whilickers, guess ya got me then...yuk yuk yuk.
(Is that another example of idiom?)

Eric, can you please explain it to him, I am laughing too hard

What no more????

The struck dog barks again, and then recedes into a distant dune to lick his (and his boyfriend's) wounds.

Eric The(Give'Poland'MyBest,TellHimToPutADressingOnThatSore,ItLooksUncannilyLikeAPalm&Swastika!)Hun[>]:)]

Oh, but Ryk!!!!!  You are "NAME CALLING"!

Lost your "cool"?

DaMan.....laughing at your a$$!

Lord, before we were talking about certain misguided youths who enaged in that, well, love that dared not speak its name!

Now these misguided youths are beginning to openly and joyfully speak speak of 'screwing' someone's horse.

[i]Das tut mir leid![/i] How can anyone of a noble Apache heritage ever speak so wantonly about screwing a horse.  That was a crime and a sin totally [u]unknown[/u] among America's first inhabitants!  Certain misguided youths who claim such heritage should be well aware of [u]that[/u]!

Eric The(TryingToBringABetterUnderstandingBetweenTheSpecies)Hun[>]:)]

Post from TheWind -

I would love to, but unfortunately, I have vowed never to respond to certain misguided youths [u]directly[/u].

Eric The(SomethingToDoWithTheMaster'sCommandNot'ToCastPearlsBeforeSwine')Hun[>]:)]

id·i·om (d-m)
n.
A speech form or an expression of a given language that is peculiar to itself grammatically or cannot be understood from the individual meanings of its elements, as in keep tabs on.
The specific grammatical, syntactic, and structural character of a given language.
Regional speech or dialect.

A specialized vocabulary used by a group of people; jargon: legal idiom.
A style or manner of expression peculiar to a given people: “Also important is the uneasiness I've always felt at cutting myself off from my idiom, the American habits of speech and jest and reaction, all of them entirely different from the local variety” (S.J. Perelman).
A style of artistic expression characteristic of a particular individual, school, period, or medium: the idiom of the French impressionists; the punk rock idiom.


DaMan, what is so unusual about Eric's and Rik's "idioms"?
Seems to me, that they're just better educated than the average AR15.com'er

Eric and Rik, please don't resort to insults and name calling. It cheapens your arguments.

Holy sheet!  Only a sick sheet would think about screwing horses!  You thought of it, Eric! Hats off to you, beetch! You are N ass hole!

Love it! DaMan

Eric, this is what TheWind would like you to explain to me, while he laughs and laughs.

If "knees bend" is some kind of homosexual reference, kindly don't include me in this discussion.