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Posted: 6/24/2003 3:20:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 3:22:02 PM EST by shotar]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:24:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:25:07 PM EST
If a police dog is a police officer, then a family's pet dog is a family member. I would think the protection should be equal.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:29:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:33:20 PM EST
IF a 'normal's' dog's life isnt worth crap. Then the police dog's life isnt worth crap. It doesnt matter if the dog was 'performing' or anything. There is no legitimate reason for the double standard other than the idea that more and more in this country Police see themselves as 'more' than 'civilians'. The problem is that it seems that many 'public servants' have taken on the 'South Park' defense ("It's coming right for me") when dealing with these situations. They semm to want to resort to force at the first and earliest opportunity, and not try any of other alternative measures to deal with the situation.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:35:18 PM EST
Oh damn! There you go stating facts and such. What's wrong with you, shotar? Are you trying to make a logical and reasonable case here or something? Geez, some people will never learn... [;d]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:35:46 PM EST
are dogs considered ppl. well look at the marine corps , the mascot has to abide by the same rules (more or less, he has special doggie rules) that the fellow marines have to , he has rank , etc. but i understand, it all depends on who ya ask.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:36:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:37:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Da_Bunny: If a police dog is a police officer, then a family's pet dog is a family member. I would think the protection should be equal.
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You would think so. But then you forget, cops are special and so are there dogs. Sgtar15
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:41:51 PM EST
Well, I certainly don't equate equal value to their lives, in fact, I prolly wouldn't even think about it at the time. If someone came on my property shooting first, and asking questions later, I'd prolly just assume I was under attack by a criminal body of assailants. Isn't that how any American would react??
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:42:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:44:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:44:31 PM EST
Since the vast majority of dogs are loyal, steadfast and true no one could ever confuse them with people.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:44:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 3:45:43 PM EST by DScott]
Originally Posted By sgtar15: ... ________________________________________ The above post is copywritten and is the sole property of Sgtar15 [red]Imc.[/red] No reprints without express written consent.
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What's "Imc."? [;d] Dogs are property, though as James Thurber said, "If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons"
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:44:50 PM EST
People might act like they are. But a dog is a dog. so, NO! GG
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:44:52 PM EST
Dogs are not people, but in some states, as it should be, you can protect your property with deadly force. Imagine, if you can, that a LEO kills an AKC champion dog that puts $100K++ in the owner's pockets per year. This dog that has been killed in this fictious example is worth 3x or more that of the officer's earning potential. As it is, there seems to be a rash of immediately "justified" shootings involving dogs. I stand by my belief that discharging a firearm that results in a death {human, cattle, canine, equine, bovine, etc} should be investigated a little more intently than immediately stating publicly that the shoot is a good one. If for nothing else, you limit the county/city/gov liability against a potential civil suit by exhausting the investigative tools at your disposal. As a professional, you should not EVER blindly accept that which your fellow professional does, as some sort of infalliable action beyond reproach. For example, you will see any CPA worth their salt distancing themselves from the practices of the auditing firm of Arthur Anderson; of Enron fame. The "why?" should be obvious. While a dogs life may not be worth certain things in the eye of the law, this does not diminish its worth to the owner. Again, recall that almost all property law used to declare that you could protect your property with any means necessary. It is the watering down of these statutes that has left us with bold and brazen thieves -- they know you can't rightfully shoot them while they are stealing your car -- at least here in Virginia. So imagine how a cop, a little drunk with the power of the badge and a gun, MIGHT see a lowly dog. From previous posts by SOME of the outspoken LEO's here, the dogs life means less than any potential injury they may recieve or not recieve by choosing alternate methods of intervention. Two things would change my outlook on dog shootings: The dog died from being stabbed to death, implying that the dog had ACTUALLY closed the distance -- despite the best efforts to keep it at bay with every other means of intervention on that trusty duty belt. OR There were a pack of dogs. Pack mentality would almost NECESSITATE that I shoot every single one of them without hesitation. My personal dealings with angry and aggressive dogs has taught me these lessons. My love of dogs has also taught me to respect thier lives with the very care that I would treat someone else's child. For some people, these are their "CHILDREN". This is not an issue with a defined black and white area...there is just one large gray area. Unfortunate as that may be.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:52:42 PM EST
Legally, it's quite obvious. Dogs are not people. However, when it comes to determining whether I hold a dog(specifically, one of my dogs) to hold the same value as a person, I have to decide which I value more. My dog, I value greatly. I love my dogs, they are damn near family members. I value anyone who harms or kills my dogs, regardless of the clothes they wear, not at all(If they had good reason, then maybe that would change things, but I'm going on the "I felt threatened by the cocker spaniel" example here). My first instinct would be the same as if it were a family member or a friend that was shot with no reason.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:53:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 3:58:07 PM EST by propguy]
Originally Posted By shotar: Ahhh, but here is the thing with that, A police dog or horse is not a Police officer in the human sense, it is a Police animal. A tool if you will that is given some added protection under the law, but is not in the law equated with a human. Much as there is some special status for Harming a police officer as opposed to other citizens. It is not murder as some people claim, it is simply more serious an offense. But then again, most of the people who attempt to injure a police animal are in fact doing so in performance of other crimes, not just doing so to do it.
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So a officer goes to the WRONG house and kills Fido ...... he's just doin his job? oooppppss? That dog is just doin his JOB and what if John Doe [dog owner] was a Branch Davidian and had these so called FLASH BACKS.......... OH YEA feel like a[:K] today shotar[;)][:)] [BD] edited cause I thought I heard a DOG oooooooooohhhhhhhh Boo![:)]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:56:16 PM EST
Almost forgot IBTL This wont make the night PG
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 3:56:44 PM EST
The problem I have is with the double standard. The local sherriff informed me that it would be a felony if I shot my neighbors dog who had attacked my nephew twice. Why does the same not hold true for leo's? Thousands of electric co, gas co, mail carriers, utility workers, etc. manage to do their jobs every day without having to shoot someone's pet. Why not leo's? If a person's pet is just "property" then so is a police K-9. Furthermore, I can't understand why those leo's who defend the officer who lives in fear of cocker spaniels can't see that she is a murdering, cowardly, puke, pos. I also don't understand why an officer would be confused why someone might become angry and violent after having their pet unnecessarily blown away.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:15:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:25:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar: Please note that I used no specific incidents as examples in my post. Please also note the very specific section of law cited. At least in this state you would be able to demand that the dog be put to sleep or if there was an imminent attack you could shoot it. I do not know the laws of your state in this regard.
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Please also note that this board is internationally available and thus you will get a variety of responses outside your realm of knowledge of the law. Also notice, that just because it is a law does not make it any more or less "right". Prime example of a law that makes NOT ONE BIT OF SENSE: 1994 AWB... Need we show more examples of state and federal laws that are non-sensical? Let me reiterate that this is not a black and white perfectly contrasted issue. While you may be "right" in the eyes of the law, and justified by the same, you may also find yourself on the wrong side of an offended dog owner. See above for the logical argument of why people might believe they, not the canine, was under attack.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:36:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/24/2003 4:39:45 PM EST by SGB]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:37:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:38:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:43:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:47:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By SGB: A dog is a dog. No more no less. They have short life spans and pet owners with out live several of them. Not to diminish the sense of loss of the pet as it is an emotional companion. But not a humane companion. No Dogs are OWNED, they are property. NO PROPERTY equals the value of a human life. Destruction of private property is usually a misdemeanor until the $$$ of the property reaches a certain level and then it becomes a felony. Of course the amount will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. LEO canines cost in the Thousands of Tax payer Dollars. Hence the harsher penalty [felony status] for the damage or death of one. No different than damage to private property of equal $$$$.
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Yes, and your ignorance of dogs is showing. Many AKC registered purebred pets can cost in the thousands of dollars as well -- these are JUST THE PETS, NOT EVEN SHOW WINNERS. How about the purebred boxer my CEO just acquired at $6000, hmm? While it might not be YOUR cup of tea that is still $6000 any way you slice it. Kind of like stealing a used car, huh??? Further, what if the dog a LEO "had" to cap to save his life [rolleyes] was an actual "working" dog and was show winner in AKC events, etc, commercials, blah, blah? Worth a hell of a lot more, monetarily, then the officer that just shot it and the cruiser he rode in on. Some of these, "just property" comments are just as asinine as the hunt you down and kill you comments on the other side.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:52:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:56:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar: Please note the section of the law that assigns liability for the Dog's actions. In the event of a wrongful destruction of property I'm well aware that all public agencies carry liability insurance. Do like everyone else and sue till your hearts content.
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This is where I part ways with your arrogance. Shotar: "We'll just keep shooting dogs. No sweat, we're insured."[rolleyes] [sleep]Good night, another thread wasted.[sleep]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 4:57:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:02:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:07:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By SGB: Excuse me,....... but damage or destruction of a pet costing in the thousands of dollars would warrant the same penalty as that of a LEO Dog. The operative part being the $$$$ value because THEY ARE PROPERTY. Sorry if My ignorance was not communicating this properly.
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SGB: You do realize there are still states in this Union that you can protect your property with any means available or necessary, right? I believe Texas is one of them -- at least according to ETH, Esq. [:D]. It's a shame that state and federal laws have been watered down in a manner which ties the hands of property owners. So do I call the cops for my car getting stolen if I have a dog? I might end up with a double loss to claim to State Farm. [;D]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:19:31 PM EST
Another great JBT thread, I guess I will let the next dog chew on me for a while, shoot it, sue the owner, and take a trip while I heal on comp
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:30:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar: Hey I'm not the one who tried to assign a specific monetary value to the life of a person and actually said that a dog, no matter how valuable was worth more than a police officer cause it won a silly dog show. That was your arrogance pocking throuh pal, not mine. Wonder how many soldiers your silly dog is worth or police or firemen or construction workers or lawyers or accountants. There we have it, don't we, you lose yet another argument on the subject, and somehow I'm arrogant. If you can't win on the facts please just stay out of the debate.
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#1) I see you are quoting Ohio law. Please post the law from the other 49 states. Two of them have specific language that allows private property owners the leeway to protect their property with deadly force. Dogs are property. Some dogs are EXPENSIVE property, maybe more expensive than some people's car's or houses on this board. #2) While I have not claimed that I would slay an officer over the death of a dog, I may be inclined to believe this cop has lost his mind and may feel threatened for MY life at which point I revert to the basic elements of training. Unfortunately for the officer this includes proficiency with a handgun. How am I to be certain that I am not being fired on next? I mean all these dog cases were relatively meaningless to the humans involved in them, can you imagine if any of the owners had reacted like they had trained? #3) Don't feel bad that there are dogs in this world that make more money than you, and could conceivably be considered "worth" more than you. This is not a philosophical discussion. It is one about assigning values to property, and whether or not the actual PLUS the percieved worth is more or less than the owner can bear at that moment when presented with this tragedy. Luckily, none of the dog shoots in the recent past has involved CHL/CCW holders, or we may be arguing this from a more realistic standpoint. I'm sorry if you can NOT FATHOM how anyone would attach themselves to a dog, and think in that passionate moment that killing the cop was a good idea, but it is a reality and if the JBT's want to continue killing dogs and getting press for doing it you will find more and more people willing to shoot it out over it. The public perception will be that this is an epedemic and that police are out of control. #4) I am not the one advocating simply suing the .gov over the loss of a dog because they are insured. That is ARROGANCE. I stated a FACT. There are dogs in this world worth more than you and the next three highest ranking officers in your department. I'm again sorry if your education excludes the comprehension of that as a FACT. While on religious and moral levels there is no dog that is on the same plane as a human, the monetary loss can actually be higher for the dog owner than if they just capped you and faced the jury. So, you do whatever you like, just know that with every increasing of the canine body count that gets televised you will get a larger and larger target on you in the event you ACTUALLY must protect yourself. I guess I feel sorry for you, not because I think you are a bad JBT cop, which I doubt you are, but that you will be in the line of fire for the actions of the ones who are.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:42:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By R0933: Another great JBT thread, I guess I will let the next dog chew on me for a while, shoot it, sue the owner, and take a trip while I heal on comp
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Why not just avoid it like a normal person would. I for one, have not once ever used the term JBT in describing any leo. But I have to say that I am greatly saddened and disappointed that there are so many leo's who have already decided that the best way to deal with someone's pet/family member/property is to simply blow it away. It's not really about the dog, it's about the attitude.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:45:43 PM EST
Equal protection under the law. Dogs are property, and a working dog is just another tool of the trade or endevour at hand. It is no more of a Law Enforcement Officer, then handcuffs, vehicles, batons, communication devices, body armor, or any other common tool of the law enforcement profession. In no way should we entertain the idea that a dog is an Officer of the Law. If a working dog, while under complete physical control of a trained handler, is killed or damaged beyond suitable use, then the fair market value of the dog, plus the expense of the training required for it to perform the task(s) required should be levied against the guilty party. However, if the dog is NOT under the complete physical control of a trained handler(i.e. off the leash or harness) and since voice commands, whistles, clickers, bells, or other noise making devices, or hand and arm signals are not physical control, then the God given right of self preservation should prevail since there are no guarantees that the unleashed dog behaving in an aggressive manner will follow the commands given by the handler. The beef many of us here have with the current handling of these situations is that the dog owned by the police department is granted elevated status to the point of being a "Petty Officer" on the force. Meanwhile, the dog owned by Joe Public is not even worth the price Joe paid the breeder for the dog. In Florida, a felon kicked a police dog, but did not injure the animal. He was awarded an 8 year addition to his sentence. Now, I'm all for keeping scumbags off the street. But what if the circumstances were different. What if the subject was found innocent of the felony charge, would / should he still serve an 8 year prison sentence for kicking a dog? In Tennessee, a family is pulled over for a felony stop and removed from their vehicle at gunpoint. They comply with every command given by the police. The family alerts the police that there are two dogs in the vehicle and they ask the officers to please shut the doors so the dogs can't get out. The officers refuse the family's requests, and shortly thereafter, a puppy exits the vehicle and approaches an officer in a submissive manner. The officer then shoots the submissive dog in the head with a shotgun. The family is released without charge. The shooting is considered justified even though the officers did not follow the warnings and requests of the family to secure the vehicle doors, and the dog was behaving in a submissive manner. No attempt to reimburse the family for property loss. Lets play a little game of what if. The houses in my neighborhood have their backyards enclosed by 6 ft wooden privacey fences. My white trash next door neighbor, before he got killed in a head on collision, would sit in his backyard in the evening, sometimes alone, but often with his white trash friends and he / they would smoke marijuana and possibly take other drugs as well. During some of those times my family and I with our dog, would sit in our backyard sipping some drinks and eating some BBQ. (The previous statment is true!) [b][red]What if[/red][/b] another neighbor, smelled the burning marijuana and called the police. But for whatever reason(a wrong address, the police can't see or find the numbers on the house), the police thinking it is the backyard of my dope smoking white trash neighbor, perform a dynamic entry into my backyard via the sideyard gate. My dog, a 65 pound female Boxer, aggressively defends my son against the threat and in doing so is shot and killed by the first officer through the gate. My 11 year old son is forced to the ground in the side yard and detained by one of the officers. It is dark. I am in the backyard and my view of the sideyard is blocked by my two story house. I can not see either my son or my dog, but I hear the crash as the gate is breeched, my dog growling, a gunshot, someone yelling "police" and my son screaming like his legs have been cut off. In the confusion of the moment, I draw my CCW believing my drugged up white trash neighbor and his white trash friends are armed and have just invaded my yard and shot my son. As the police round the corner of the house from the sideyard to the backyard they are channalized between the house and the fence and they are shining high intensity flashlights which prevent me from being able to ID them as actual police officers. From a kneeling position behind my patio table, and fearing for the lives of my family and myself, I lay down a field of grazing fire, wounding 2 officers and killing 2 more. Before I can reload I am wounded and unable to resist the onslaught. My wife is also shot as she tries to seek cover from the gunfire. While my wife and I are unconscience in ICU, the police spend the next 3 days searching my house for any possible evidence, but come up empty handed. Everyone in my family survives the ordeal, but my dog is killed. Do you think I would be reimbursed for the fair market value of an AKC registered Boxer? Or would the killing of my dog be considered justifiable? What if there was a working dog with the entry team, and by chance I killed it as well? Would / should I spend time in jail for killing the dog?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:46:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 5:47:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:01:54 PM EST
Hey JBT apologists, Answer this: I remember a thread a few weeks back written by a peace officer who said that he was almost attacked by a police dog. I even remember an incident where a police dog had to be killed by another officer because it was going after an officer because its idiotic handler let it get out of command range. My question is this, lets say I am in my back yard, and the police release a police dog, and it comes into my backyard and comes at me. Do I resist it, by killing it, or should I just let the crazy fucker bite me, and hope the officer who is supposed to be in control of the dog is nearby? After all 'It is coming right for me'. Would I face charges of killing a police dog?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:05:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar: Somehow I gotta question the pseudo intellectual line of thought you seem to be following. Notice I did not advocate just suing. The destruction would first have to be wrongful. Second, you have no idea how much money I make. Perhaps more than you or any dog, perhaps not. Landon I simply stated the facts. You seem to be the one trying to create irrellevant circumstances and tossing our personal attacks. That is the sign of a weak argument, or a weak mind. Take your pick.
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Personal attacks? Are you joking? It doesn't matter how much you make. As a LEO/trainer/consultant in Ohio there are dogs in this world worth more than you in income generated, and have more potential income then you could EVER make, [b]period[/b]. That is a fact you can dismiss if you like, but a fact nonetheless. Again you miss the underlying issues with your arrogance. What I've noticed is that "my side" of the argument gains more and more voices every time the topic comes up. There are more and more voices chiming in against your asinine assertions, as you and SGB flail about trying to make up topics to create an unintelligable discourse. This is commonly known as trolling. You can believe whatever you like, make sure you convince yourself that every state has the same restrictive laws as Ohio, and make sure you falsely assume that the LE community is immune from retribution in these incidents in the other 49 states. I hope the day never comes where I read that a hardworking gun owner has lost all his rights and will lose his life over a JBT killing his family pet, and he therefore killed him/them all. That will be a sad day on several levels. First, because it will inevitably be a "good shoot" in the cleanest sense of the word, but this hardworking gun owner will likely have been overcome with emotion. Secondly, it will be a sad day for the RKBA movement since it will give more fuel to the Feinstein/Brady/Schmuer/Clinton movement. [V]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:06:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:09:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By SGB:
....I may be inclined to believe this cop has lost his mind and may feel threatened for MY life at which point I revert to the basic elements of training. Unfortunately for the officer this includes proficiency with a handgun.
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Is that you McUzi?
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That is the wit with which you wish to dazzle us?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:10:56 PM EST
I was discussing this very question with my best friend, prospector... I was mentioning that I was tired of hearing this argument about 'animals are people, too'. So, my answer to the question of: [b]Are Dogs people too??? [/b] "...you know, I think about that every time I lick MY balls, shit in the backyard and howl back at fire engines..." [;D]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:12:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar: Dearest Silence: I don't think anyone has appologized for anything, nor are they likely going to in this thread.
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I didnt say you had 'in this thread' it was used more as a title. But I notice you didnt bother to answer my question, I wonder why?
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:13:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By BusMaster007: I was discussing this very question with my best friend, prospector... I was mentioning that I was tired of hearing this argument about 'animals are people, too'. So, my answer to the question of: [b]Are Dogs people too??? [/b] "...you know, I think about that every time [red]I lick MY balls[/red], shit in the backyard and howl back at fire engines..." [;D]
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If I dould lick [b]MY[/b] balls, I would never leave the house! [:D]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:17:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:32:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar: See, thats just it. [red]Again you don't really know what you are talking about.[/red] I simply posted facts. Perhaps the laws differ from state to state on this matter, but not much. I didn't claim any sort of moral or ethical superiority nor did I belittle anyone in the process. Your argument is weak. Your bluster is high and Yeah, I'll still be making my money when the dog is dust. They don't live that long. Like I said, I never brought money into it. Only that when wrongful things happen there is a lawful way to deal with it. I can't control your fixation on money. Suffice it to say I don't do the cop thing full time anymore, you are correct there is not much money in it. Alot of satisfaction in helping people, but not much money. Now I live where the money flows like water.
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Now don't confuse YOU not understanding what I am talking about with me not knowing about the facts I am sharing with you. You do realize that the owner's of the dog on that stupid TV show "Frasier" get $250K++ per year that show was on? He's nothing but a well trained little pup. Not even a purebred pup. Those show dogs garner thier owners quite a bit more money in "stud" fees, commercials, shows, etc....some of those show winning dogs put hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table. Further, property laws differ A LOT from state to state. What part of defending property with deadly force don't you understand? If the property is valued high enough ETH has elaborated that Texas allows for protection of that property, including DEADLY force. That is a far cry from being held accountable for a dog bite even if the LEO was in the wrong yard, etc, etc. Money flows like water? I guess EVERYTHING is relative, huh? Going from cop wages to whatever would look like flowing cash, I guess. Even at the 4th highest pay grade in Orange County, CA my uncle pulls less than $150K/year. Not many markets bigger than Southern CA. Sad as it may be that little dog, Eddie on Frasier has made more for his owners than almost ANY LEO will ever make -- isn't a capitalistic society great? Hell, Chief Moose was only grossing $125K and he was one of the highest paid in the DC Metro market, which is HUGE on pay grade scales. My fixation on monetary value of the dogs. It's simple. To point out that while dogs are NOT people, they can be worth more than people. Since you are an easy target as a LEO apologist/former LEO I used your income as an example of how dogs can be of a greater value/worth than the law defines them. Combine this with the sentimental value and you can begin to see why people may attach human characteritics to them.
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:35:40 PM EST
My dog is definitely worth more to me than SOME humans. If those humans were drowning and so was my dog, I'd rescue my dog FIRST without hesitation or regrets. My dog is also better looking, smarter, better educated, better mannered, and more intelligent than those people. CJ
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:38:57 PM EST
I knew better than to open this thread. Of course the christian cult propagandist's are going to tell you that animals "have no soul", are "sub-serviant" to humans, and are not "as valuable". They have to say that to perpetuate the "man was chosen by god" myth that is used to subvert the masses. The leo has to put the "value" on dogs, because the use them (abuse them) as tools to do the jobs that the leo doesn't want to do. If there were no added penalties for shooting an leo dog, perpetraters would be popping the dogs, and leo would have to do the work. Now for the blah, blah, blah's. My dog is more valuable,[b] to me[/b], than your or your childrens lives are,[b] to me[/b]. I would risk/lose my life trying to save my dog, but I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. I would save my dog from a burning building, before I would save your children. And, if you kill my dog, leo or not, I will hunt you down and kill you, and I will [b]PROUDLY[/b] accept the consequences. It's all a matter of value's, and I'm very comfortable with mine.[^]
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:44:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/24/2003 6:50:05 PM EST
Doesn't matter what the law is or interpretation of the law is.... If a man loves and values his dog as much as a child or spouse? Go ahead and shoot his dog and see what happens to you.... anymore questions??? When will you jackasses learn that it doesn't matter what law you pass..... People do what they want to do. In a state of distress or passion even more so. Your wonderfully brilliant laws are nothing but "after the damage is done" grasps for payback. One dog dead... 2 cops dead.... maybe one owner dead. What good did your law do????????
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