Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 4/16/2010 6:45:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2010 4:46:27 PM EDT by LouisianaCarry]
I do this thread every year- every year it is cool until someone gets it locked. Life does not have to be like that, people. If you don't like Civil War Conversations, feel free not to participate. Obviously many people do, and this is meant to respect their history and heritage and not be about hate. See if we can grasp that this year.

I'll kick it off by saluting those who served, especially my Great-great-great-grandfathers Marshall Benton Petty (Tennessee Regiment) and Alfred Carter (Company I, 36th Arkansas Infantry).

Me after raising a new flag on the monument in front of my parish's Courthouse:





My front lawn:



Here are some interesting links and thoughts as my contribution to the topic.

Here is the link to an archive I put together:

Historical Resources Regarding the Confederate States of America

See specifically:

The Flags of the Confederacy

Images of Various Confederate Flags

Southern States' Secession Ordinances

Confederate States' Constitution

Since it always comes up, here are a couple articles I wrote about the legality and morality of secession:

The Consent of the Governed

A Libertarian Analysis of the Declaration of Independence

Also, to hear a lecture about the early American recognition of secession being an inherent right, click here: Secession and the American Experience

To hear a lecture about secession as it pertains to our Second War for Independence, click here: Secession and War

Understand that the causes of secession were not the same as the causes for war. Yes, the secession was causitive in the war happening, but the war had its own motivations. Yes, there was the attack on Fort Sumpter, which is often used as an excuse, but the CSA could hardly have been expected to suffer a fort in one of their harbors any more than George Washington would have suffered a fort off the shore of New York. To find the causes of the war, you need to look at Lincoln's thoughts and history.

To hear some of Lincoln's motivators, since he was the one who called up troops, listen to this: Lincoln's Tariff War (video) audio

See also on this subject:

Abraham Lincoln and the Triumph of Mercantilism in America (video) (audio)

Lincoln vs. the Constitution (video) (audio)

Robert Toombs' Speech to the Georgia Legislature Nov. 13, 1860, to the Georgia Legislature

Speech of Alexander H. Stephens Nov. 14, 1860, to the Georgia Legislature

Certainly there were some that, unfortunately, viewed the perpetuity of slavery as their motive. However, for someone to reduce such an epic stuggle to the view of it being a monocausal event about slavery is pitiful, and is the result of ignorance or bias. Since we always end up on the subject of slavery, let us remember that it was common during the colonial war for independence, so, for us to make the argument that secession is invalid if slavery is a practice there is to make the argument that our whole nation is made up of immoral traitors. This is not a new thought:

If [the Declaration of Independence] justifies the secession from the British empire of 3,000,000 of colonists in 1776, we do not see why it would not justify the secession of 5,000,000 of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861. – New York Tribune, December 17, 1860

Lastly, I will leave you with a couple more thoughts of my own:

"Regardless of the causes or specifics of why or how the 'Civil War' happened- one thing is sure. What the war ultimately decided was that the Federal Government is now the only entity that decides the limits of it's own powers. Our only hope now is that bureaucratic inefficiency will delay the slide towards an absolutist central authority until the American people somehow decide to reclaim their lost spirit of liberty, individuality and self-government. What it might take for them to awaken and work towards that goal is still a mystery."


"The States united to become the world's foremost experiment it self-determination, self-government, and a free republic founded on the consent of the governed. THAT is what America was about. However, certain people saw fit to destroy that by taking up arms to force others to live in a country that was no longer led by those principles, and then said that, by doing so- they 'saved' the idea that a people have the right to consent (or not to consent) to their own form of government. They were attached to a vain idea that what America was founded on was having lots of States banded together, and not the reality that States are but a political affiliation- the point of it all was that it was people who freely decided to live together. Once those people no longer feel served by that association- to continue that association by force is to destroy the very heart and soul of the whole Republic. America is now a Republic in name only."
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 6:45:50 PM EDT
The principle, on which the war was waged by the North, was simply this: That men may rightfully be compelled to submit to, and support, a government that they do not want; and that resistance, on their part, makes them traitors and criminals. No principle, that is possible to be named, can be more self-evidently false than this; or more self-evidently fatal to all political freedom. Yet it triumphed in the field, and is now assumed to be established. If it really be established, the number of slaves, instead of having been diminished by the war, has been greatly increased; for a man, thus subjected to a government that he does not want, is a slave. And there is no difference, in principle ––- but only in degree ––- between political and chattel slavery. The former, no less than the latter, denies a man's ownership of himself and the products of his labor; and asserts that other men may own him, and dispose of him and his property, for their uses, and at their pleasure. – Lysander Spooner (Nineteenth-Century lawyer, abolitionist, entrepreneur)

Nothing fills me with deeper sadness than to see a Southern man apologizing for the defense we made of our inheritance. Our cause was so just, so sacred, that had I known all that has come to pass, had I known what was to be inflicted upon me, all that my country was to suffer, all that our posterity was to endure, I would do it all over again. - Jefferson Davis

I am with the South in life or in death, in victory or defeat. I never owned a negro and care nothing for them, but these people have been my friends and have stood up to me on all occasions. In addition to this, I believe the North is about to wage a brutal and unholy war on a people who have done them no wrong, in violation of the Constitution and the fundamental principles of the government...We propose no invasion of the North, no attack on them, and only ask to be let alone. Patrick R. Cleburne

If by the mere force of numbers a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution. – Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865), First Inaugural Address, 4 March 1861

I tried all in my power to avert this war. I saw it coming, for twelve years I worked night and day to prevent it, but I could not. The North was mad and blind; it would not let us govern ourselves, and so the war came, and now it must go on till the last man of this generation falls in his tracks, and his children seize the musket and fight our battle, unless you acknowledge our right to self government. We are not fighting for slavery. We are fighting for Independence, and that, or extermination President Jefferson Davis, Confederate States of America

Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy; that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers; will learn from Northern school books their version of the War; will be impressed by all the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors, and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision. -General Pat Cleburne, CSA

If centralism is ultimately to prevail; if our entire system of free Institutions as established by our common ancestors is to be subverted, and an Empire is to be established in their stead; if that is to be the last scene of the great tragic drama now being enacted: then, be assured, that we of the South will be acquitted, not only in our own consciences, but in the judgment of mankind, of all responsibility for so terrible a catastrophe, and from all guilt of so great a crime against humanity. -Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America

I saw in States’ rights the only availing check upon the absolutism of the sovereign will, and secession filled me with hope, not as the destruction but as the redemption of Democracy…. Therefore I deemed that you were fighting the battles of our liberty, our progress, and our civilization, and I mourn for the stake which was lost at Richmond more deeply than I rejoice over that which was saved at Waterloo. -Lord Acton, in a letter to Robert E Lee right after the war

We protest solemnly in the face of mankind, that we desire peace at any sacrifice, save that of honor. In independence we seek no conquest, no aggrandizement, no concession of any kind from the states with which we have lately been confederated. All we ask is to be let alone – that those who never held power over us shall not now attempt our subjugation by arms. This we will, we must resist to the direst extremity. The moment that this pretension is abandoned, the sword will drop from our grasp, and we shall be ready to enter into treaties of amnesty and commerce that cannot but be mutually beneficial. So long as this pretension is maintained, with a firm reliance on that Divine Power which covers with its protection the just cause, we must continue to struggle for our inherent right to freedom, independence, and self government. – President Jefferson Davis' first address to the Confederate Congress

In our government-controlled schools we are taught that Lincoln was our greatest president because his war ended slavery and saved the Union. As usual, the other side of the story – the side that reflects poorly on the government – somehow gets lost. – Richard J. Maybury, The Abe Lincoln Hoax

So the case stands, and under all the passion of the parties and the cries of battle lie the two chief moving causes of the struggle. Union means so many millions a year lost to the South; secession means the loss of the same millions to the North. The love of money is the root of this as of many many other evils … the quarrel between North and South is, as it stands, solely a fiscal quarrel. – Charles Dickens, as editor of All the Year Round, a British periodical in 1862

For 134 years the American people have been led to believe that the right of secession had been overturned by a "verdict of arms," but that isn't true … It is true the shot fired at Fort Sumter was a mistake since it provided the pretext for the Southland to be invaded by foreign troops, but the right of secession realized through the ballot box remains an essential part of our constitutional order. – George Kalas, Chairman Emeritus, The Southern Party

The American people, North and South, went into the [Civil] war as citizens of their respective states, they came out as subjects … what they thus lost they have never got back. – H.L. Mencken

The future inhabitants of [both] the Atlantic and Mississippi states will be our sons. We think we see their happiness in their union, and we wish it. Events may prove otherwise; and if they see their interest in separating why should we take sides? God bless them both, and keep them in union if it be for their good, but separate them if it be better. – Thomas Jefferson

The Union was formed by the voluntary agreement of the States; and these, in uniting together, have not forfeited their Nationality, nor have they been reduced to the condition of one and the same people. If one of the States chose to withdraw its name from the contract, it would be difficult to disprove its right of doing so … – Alex de Tocqueville, Democracy In America

If [the Declaration of Independence] justifies the secession from the British empire of 3,000,000 of colonists in 1776, we do not see why it would not justify the secession of 5,000,000 of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861. – New York Tribune, December 17, 1860

The error is in the assumption that the General Government is a party to the constitutional compact. The States … formed the compact, acting as sovereign and independent communities. – John C. Calhoun

The procedure of secession was to have an election for delegates to a state convention, to meet in convention, and to adopt ordinances of secession. This was done in accord with the Southern understanding of what would be in keeping with the United States Constitution. It had, after all, been ratified by the states acting through conventions. Could they not "un-ratify" it – secede from the Union – in the same fashion? – Clarence Carson, A Basic History Of The United States

Our government is an agency of delegated and strictly limited powers. Its founders did not look to its preservation by force; but the chain they wove to bind these States together was one of love and mutual good offices … – Jefferson Davis
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 6:46:54 PM EDT
IBTSS. This thread is going off topic, more or less, in 3, 2, 1..............
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 6:47:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2010 7:37:34 PM EDT by MadMardigan]
Tag for reading later.

ETA, My family fought for the Confederacy in Virginia under Stonewall Jackson.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:08:41 PM EDT
Good stuff, thank you very much.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:10:03 PM EDT
Never forget.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:10:51 PM EDT
I have a Confederate flag hanging in my office and I'm a damned yankee.
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:17:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
I have a Confederate flag hanging in my office and I'm a damned yankee.


Let's do lunch

Southerners don't have problems most yanks. Just the anti state rights liberal-Cali/New York-Obama voting-Lincoln lover types
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:18:44 PM EDT
Long live the Sons of the Confederacy!
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:48:21 PM EDT
My great-great grandfather...

Link Posted: 4/16/2010 7:52:56 PM EDT
On my property:

Smith Family
Link Posted: 4/16/2010 9:34:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By georgiarebel6165:
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
I have a Confederate flag hanging in my office and I'm a damned yankee.


Let's do lunch

Southerners don't have problems most yanks. Just the anti state rights liberal-Cali/New York-Obama voting-Lincoln lover types


True, some yanks seem like pretty good people. They are always welcome down here.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:39:45 AM EDT
Wow, the first year I ask the trolls to take a holiday is the first year the thread barely creeps for the first 12 hours... Well, it's worth it, lol.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:42:18 AM EDT
Confederate flag hanging in my room
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:43:44 AM EDT
God bless those who died... They fought for their states, they fought for their families and they fought for the South.

True patriots.

Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:44:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2010 9:46:02 AM EDT by odiedodi]
In before the union fanboys.

I need to get a confederate t-shirt.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:45:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:46:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HardShell:
If the thread makes it that long I'll check back a week from Monday, when I'll be off work for Confederate Memorial Day (still a state holiday here and a few other states).

Good luck!

Which is an awesome thing to me. :)

Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:51:42 AM EDT
This man was the epitome of a gentleman.

never flinched in battle because he believed the good Lord had his time picked. That's how he got the name "stonewall"

"Look! There is Jackson standing like a damned stone wall. Let us be determined to die here today and we will conquer!"

Link Posted: 4/17/2010 9:54:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
This man was the epitome of a gentleman.

never flinched in battle because he believed the good Lord had his time picked. That's how he got the name "stonewall"

"Look! There is Jackson standing like a damned stone wall. Let us be determined to die here today and we will conquer!"

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x230/JesseTravis/stonewall_jackson_2.jpg


That is what I am talking about
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:07:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By georgiarebel6165:
Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
I have a Confederate flag hanging in my office and I'm a damned yankee.


Let's do lunch

Southerners don't have problems most yanks. Just the anti state rights liberal-Cali/New York-Obama voting-Lincoln lover types
From the west coast....


Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:11:22 AM EDT
Our family had eight members fight in the war and one of them was a traitor who is still banned from resting in the family cemetery in WV. With your reasoning, why not celebrate Benedict Arnold Month in May? You can't keep scratching a scab and expect things to heal. We have a constitution to solve issues with without resorting to treason, death and destruction. Get over it.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:15:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:15:38 AM EDT
I had family on both sides of the war, anyone willing to fight and die for their country is a patriot in my book. I only wish more Americans could discuss the subject without resorting to finger pointing and name calling.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:20:40 AM EDT


Blue Ridge Georgia at the Chevron/ Rebel Pantry. God I love it here.

Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:24:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chisum:
Our family had eight members fight in the war and one of them was a traitor who is still banned from resting in the family cemetery in WV. With your reasoning, why not celebrate Benedict Arnold Month in May? You can't keep scratching a scab and expect things to heal. We have a constitution to solve issues with without resorting to treason, death and destruction. Get over it.


I doubt he minds being buried where he is...
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:27:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chisum:
Our family had eight members fight in the war and one of them was a traitor who is still banned from resting in the family cemetery in WV. With your reasoning, why not celebrate Benedict Arnold Month in May? You can't keep scratching a scab and expect things to heal. We have a constitution to solve issues with without resorting to treason, death and destruction. Get over it.


Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:33:01 AM EDT
I have no problem with this at all.
My family came to America 40 years after the civil war had ended.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:33:17 AM EDT
my Great Grandfather and 4 of his brothers fought in the 51st Virginia infantry regiment. I'm proud to have family that fought in the civil war
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:36:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2010 10:37:13 AM EDT by TheGerman]
In Tampa, we have a gigantic confederate flag that hangs off a 139ft flag poll overlooking a major highway. It's there 365 days a year and I take every opportunity to point it out to people that are visiting.

The state fought him and lost, twice.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361161,00.html
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:43:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By odiedodi:
In before the union fanboys.

I need to get a confederate t-shirt.


Celebrating Confederate history and the bravery of the soldiers: Fine, totally agree with this.

Gratuitous shitting on half the country, Lincoln bashing, yankee-baiting, etc: Fuck yourself.

Why is it that some folks need to tear down others when they celebrate their own history? More of Confederate History, please, and less of the other crap.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 10:58:20 AM EDT
Since its Confederate History, let's look at the Confederate Government instead of just the bravery of the Confederate soldiers. I'll start:

See what happens when the Democratic Party gets control of a country. The Confederacy was great at nationalizing industries and private property, giving out subsidies, and causing extreme inflation.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 2:28:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2010 2:30:33 PM EDT by LouisianaCarry]

Originally Posted By skinnysarge79:
Since its Confederate History, let's look at the Confederate Government instead of just the bravery of the Confederate soldiers. I'll start:

See what happens when the Democratic Party gets control of a country. The Confederacy was great at nationalizing industries and private property, giving out subsidies, and causing extreme inflation.


Originally Posted By Chisum:
Our family had eight members fight in the war and one of them was a traitor who is still banned from resting in the family cemetery in WV. With your reasoning, why not celebrate Benedict Arnold Month in May? You can't keep scratching a scab and expect things to heal. We have a constitution to solve issues with without resorting to treason, death and destruction. Get over it.


Link Posted: 4/17/2010 2:28:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hey-Mikey:
I had family on both sides of the war, anyone willing to fight and die for their country is a patriot in my book. I only wish more Americans could discuss the subject without resorting to finger pointing and name calling.

It must never be unpatriotic to support your country against your government. It must always be unpatriotic to support your government against your country. – Stephen T. Byington


Link Posted: 4/17/2010 3:57:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By skinnysarge79:
Since its Confederate History, let's look at the Confederate Government instead of just the bravery of the Confederate soldiers. I'll start:

See what happens when the Democratic Party gets control of a country. The Confederacy was great at nationalizing industries and private property, giving out subsidies, and causing extreme inflation.


Good Lord... If you are dumb enough to not understand that the parties have shifted since then you have my pity.

"My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman’s dance. I am in favor of a national bank, the internal improvements system, and a high protective tariff."
Abraham Lincoln

I would urge you to look at the fiscal and social policies that the Lincoln Admn. established. You would be fucking disgusted.

Of course, Lincoln was a saint and he could never do any wrong in your eyes huh?
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 5:54:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By skinnysarge79:
Since its Confederate History, let's look at the Confederate Government instead of just the bravery of the Confederate soldiers. I'll start:

See what happens when the Democratic Party gets control of a country. The Confederacy was great at nationalizing industries and private property, giving out subsidies, and causing extreme inflation.


Good Lord... If you are dumb enough to not understand that the parties have shifted since then you have my pity.

"My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman’s dance. I am in favor of a national bank, the internal improvements system, and a high protective tariff."
Abraham Lincoln

I would urge you to look at the fiscal and social policies that the Lincoln Admn. established. You would be fucking disgusted.

Of course, Lincoln was a saint and he could never do any wrong in your eyes huh?


I posted that the Confederacy had some leftist policies, and you come back saying that the parties have switched positions? Are you saying that the Republicans are now leftist? I'm confused. Of course trying to steer the argument towards Lincoln is a nice touch. But it's Confederate History month, so I thought I would help discuss the Confederacy.

I made sure to exclude the Confederate soldiers from any ire that might be in my post, and didn't even talk about the causes of secession or war. But it is my opinion that the Confederate government was inept, anti-free market, and bloated with bureaucrats.

Link Posted: 4/17/2010 7:35:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2010 7:38:45 PM EDT by LouisianaCarry]

Originally Posted By skinnysarge79:
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By skinnysarge79:
Since its Confederate History, let's look at the Confederate Government instead of just the bravery of the Confederate soldiers. I'll start:

See what happens when the Democratic Party gets control of a country. The Confederacy was great at nationalizing industries and private property, giving out subsidies, and causing extreme inflation.


Good Lord... If you are dumb enough to not understand that the parties have shifted since then you have my pity.

"My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman’s dance. I am in favor of a national bank, the internal improvements system, and a high protective tariff."
Abraham Lincoln

I would urge you to look at the fiscal and social policies that the Lincoln Admn. established. You would be fucking disgusted.

Of course, Lincoln was a saint and he could never do any wrong in your eyes huh?


I posted that the Confederacy had some leftist policies, and you come back saying that the parties have switched positions? Are you saying that the Republicans are now leftist? I'm confused. Of course trying to steer the argument towards Lincoln is a nice touch. But it's Confederate History month, so I thought I would help discuss the Confederacy.

I made sure to exclude the Confederate soldiers from any ire that might be in my post, and didn't even talk about the causes of secession or war. But it is my opinion that the Confederate government was inept, anti-free market, and bloated with bureaucrats.



HEY TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, HUH, BOTH OF YOU!

THANKS!



ETA: Discussing things in a non-inflammatory manner is totally awesome!!!
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 7:37:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 7:49:09 PM EDT
I have ancestors who fought for the North. Much better men than I and I respect the hell out of them.

That being said, if the north didn't outnumber the south 3-1, they would have gotten their asses handed to them.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 7:51:13 PM EDT
We will have Confederate Memorial Day in Georgia on the 26th of this month. Us Sons of Confederate Veterans place flags on the graves of our dead
and have a graveside service. I look forward to it every year.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 7:53:40 PM EDT
Black history month, confederate history month, who gives a shit?
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 7:56:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EasTexan:
This man was the epitome of a gentleman.

never flinched in battle because he believed the good Lord had his time picked. That's how he got the name "stonewall"

"Look! There is Jackson standing like a damned stone wall. Let us be determined to die here today and we will conquer!"

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x230/JesseTravis/stonewall_jackson_2.jpg

Actually, some have suggested that General Bee –– who said the famous phrase –– was more exasperated that Jackson wasn't moving his troops into line faster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnard_Elliott_Bee,_Jr.

On June 17, 1861, Bee was appointed brigadier general of a brigade mobilized at Manassas Junction. He was given command of the third brigade of the Army of the Shenandoah, under Brig. Gen. Joseph E. Johnston. During the subsequent battle, later known as the First Battle of Bull Run, Bee is said to have used the term "stone wall" in reference to Brig. Gen. Thomas J. Jackson and his men, giving rise to the name "Stonewall Jackson" and his Stonewall Brigade. (There has been debate over whether this was meant in admiration or as an insult over Jackson's men not advancing.) Bee was mortally wounded as the Confederates began to gain the upper hand in the battle. He died the following day and is buried in Pendleton, South Carolina. As a result, it could not be determined whether his naming of Stonewall Jackson was intended as praise, a condemnation, or whether it was simply a misattributed quote.


Link Posted: 4/17/2010 7:57:03 PM EDT


Yep.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 8:00:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sparsedirect:
Lincoln bashing...


I suggest you read the book titled "The Real Lincoln". It's a real eye-opener.
Link Posted: 4/17/2010 8:10:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fnfal_308:
I have ancestors who fought for the North. Much better men than I and I respect the hell out of them.

That being said, if the north didn't outnumber the south 3-1, they would have gotten their asses handed to them.

While the North had advantages in population and industrialization, in most of the battles during 1861-1863 the number of Confederate troops on the field was fairly close to the same.

At the battle of Shiloh, for example, the Confederates actually outnumbered the Union Army during the first day.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 3:10:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
Originally Posted By skinnysarge79:
Since its Confederate History, let's look at the Confederate Government instead of just the bravery of the Confederate soldiers. I'll start:

See what happens when the Democratic Party gets control of a country. The Confederacy was great at nationalizing industries and private property, giving out subsidies, and causing extreme inflation.


Good Lord... If you are dumb enough to not understand that the parties have shifted since then you have my pity.

"My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman’s dance. I am in favor of a national bank, the internal improvements system, and a high protective tariff."
Abraham Lincoln

I would urge you to look at the fiscal and social policies that the Lincoln Admn. established. You would be fucking disgusted.

Of course, Lincoln was a saint and he could never do any wrong in your eyes huh?


You do realize that about the first thing the Confederates did was institute higher tariffs than the Federals had enacted previous to the war? does this mean that you agree with the Confederates instituting Internal Passports on ALL residents without regard to race or sex? and posting Provost Marshal troops at railroad stations, major road junctions, etc to enforce travel restrictions? the forbidding of farmers to sell their crops to their preferred customers, and confiscatory takings if the government wanted crops? I think you been looking at the wrong side.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 3:17:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By fnfal_308:
I have ancestors who fought for the North. Much better men than I and I respect the hell out of them.

That being said, if the north didn't outnumber the south 3-1, they would have gotten their asses handed to them.

While the North had advantages in population and industrialization, in most of the battles during 1861-1863 the number of Confederate troops on the field was fairly close to the same.

At the battle of Shiloh, for example, the Confederates actually outnumbered the Union Army during the first day.


BTW who won Shiloh?

If the North hadn't had a lot more men, if the North hadn't had a vigorous vibrant diversified economy, if the North hadn't had the capability to mine, transport ore and produce an almost unlimited quantity of iron and steel products, including an unlimited amount of RR rollings stock and rails, and if the North hadn't had a huge shipbuilding, manning and operating infrastructure, if the North hadn't had the capability to produce enough shoes, food and other materials to supply both their civilian population and armed forces, and hmm, maybe the South should have thought about it just a while longer.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 3:20:10 AM EDT
Part of my family served in the foreign SS during WWII. You don't see me putting Nazi flags up at my house.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 3:32:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2010 3:38:12 AM EDT by Tech-Com]

Originally Posted By GarandM1:

Originally Posted By fnfal_308:
I have ancestors who fought for the North. Much better men than I and I respect the hell out of them.

That being said, if the north didn't outnumber the south 3-1, they would have gotten their asses handed to them.

While the North had advantages in population and industrialization, in most of the battles during 1861-1863 the number of Confederate troops on the field was fairly close to the same.

At the battle of Shiloh, for example, the Confederates actually outnumbered the Union Army during the first day.

The Confederates did very well in the first day and were winning. It was not until reinforcements arrived that the tide changed. With these forces united the Confederates were outnumbered by 21,000 and still managed to inflict more casualties. I don't like to bash the north but the Confederates were excellant soldiers and I'd have picked one of them to be by my side in a battle.
Link Posted: 4/18/2010 3:45:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chisum:
Our family had eight members fight in the war and one of them was a traitor who is still banned from resting in the family cemetery in WV. With your reasoning, why not celebrate Benedict Arnold Month in May? You can't keep scratching a scab and expect things to heal. We have a constitution to solve issues with without resorting to treason, death and destruction. Get over it.



I doubt he wants to lay next to lay next to all of those fuckers for eternity anyway. I sure as hell wouldn't. You're doing him a favor.




Link Posted: 4/18/2010 3:47:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
Part of my family served in the foreign SS during WWII. You don't see me putting Nazi flags up at my house.



You're in SF...it's implied.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top