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Posted: 9/7/2013 8:39:34 AM EDT
I don't consider myself an overly paranoid person but does the idea of the finger print reader placed in what is the only usable button on the iphone rub you the wrong way like it does me?

I was hoping it was just a software app "widget" on the actual screen so I didn't have to use it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:41:24 AM EDT
Didn't the first Motorola Atrix have one?
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:41:50 AM EDT
Quoted:
I don't consider myself an overly paranoid person but does the idea of the finger print reader placed in what is the only usable button on the iphone rub you the wrong way like it does me?

I was hoping it was just a software app "widget" on the actual screen so I didn't have to use it.
View Quote


not only does it collect your prints, it takes voice samples and pictures of your face for the nsa.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:42:10 AM EDT
If its really there at all, you won't be forced to use it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:43:15 AM EDT
Well, you've already got a device that tracks you everywhere you go and keeps track of your many various media preferences.  It isn't of much use though if you don't have some certainty on which ID is tied to it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:43:49 AM EDT
Finger print readers have been around for quite some time on laptops.

Although in light of recent events (God bless Edward Snowden) it has different implications now.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:49:49 AM EDT
The part I hate is that it takes a tiny blood sample and runs your DNA against Interpol and FBI case files. I guess it's a bonus that you get a free AIDS test in the process, though.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 8:51:48 AM EDT
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  

Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:26:56 AM EDT
Did you know that the iPhone has forward and rear facing cameras.  If they can surreptitiously take your fingerprint, who's to say they aren't recording everything you do or look at when the phone is out of your pocket.  
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:30:57 AM EDT
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Quoted:
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  

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I think I'm going with this.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:44:11 AM EDT
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Quoted:
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  

View Quote


How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:45:51 AM EDT
Get an Otterbox...problem solved.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:50:04 AM EDT

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Quoted:


Did you know that the iPhone has forward and rear facing cameras.  If they can surreptitiously take your fingerprint, who's to say they aren't recording everything you do or look at when the phone is out of your pocket.  
View Quote




 
Damn! Next you will be telling me that they are tracking all my movements through the GPS in the phone.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:51:31 AM EDT
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Quoted:


How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  



How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?


How many sets of your fingerprints are already on file?  

For me there are at least 4:

1. Nebraska Insurance License
2. Nebraska Bar Association
3. Nebraska State Patrol (x2 for CCW)
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:54:07 AM EDT


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Didn't the first Motorola Atrix have one?
View Quote



Yes.  I still have my Atrix.  It's basically an MP3 player now but I still have it.






ETA:

It's very fast to unlock.  Sometimes it wouldn't read correctly and I'd have to swipe again but it's easy to get a feel for it and get your form perfect.



It was a great phone except for the idiotic Motoblur.





 
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:56:20 AM EDT
fingerprints prove YOU are the one who accessed your phone at a given date and time so you can't just claim it wasnt you when you find yourself in deep shit. its undeniable proof that puts you (fingerprint) at a place (GPS tracking) and time (phone clock) doing something (phone application logs) or talking to someone (phone history). it's the final piece of the god damned big brother puzzle.

some of you people need to wake the fuck up

especially you "i had my fingerprints taken for a job once so i'm already in the books - whatever" folks

this whole thread is crock full of  

We no longer need a Sherlock Holmes figure in our lives anymore, as you are deliberately giving up our own privacy for the sake of convenience, digging your own grave for when the wrong party decides it's time to bury you.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 9:58:39 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  



How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?



Lol
You really think apple is going to keep a database of users fingerprints?
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:00:36 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol

You really think apple is going to keep a database of users fingerprints?

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  







How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?






Lol

You really think apple is going to keep a database of users fingerprints?



I don't see why not.  They collect location information on users.



 
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:02:07 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Lol
You really think apple is going to keep a database of users fingerprints?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  



How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?



Lol
You really think apple is going to keep a database of users fingerprints?


Uh....

if every fingerprint is only 5KB in size, it would only take around 300TB of storage to hold fingerprints for all living "citizens of the world". so yeah, it's realistic, relatively cheap, and why the fuck wouldn't they?

in fact they could afford to store multiple finger prints per each one of your fingers and build a pretty good unquestionable virtual model of your finger using multiple data points....
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:11:18 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
fingerprints prove YOU are the one who accessed your phone at a given date and time so you can't just claim it wasnt you when you find yourself in deep shit. its undeniable proof that puts you (fingerprint) at a place (GPS tracking) and time (phone clock) doing something (phone application logs) or talking to someone (phone history). it's the final piece of the god damned big brother puzzle.

some of you people need to wake the fuck up

especially you "i had my fingerprints taken for a job once so i'm already in the books - whatever" folks

this whole thread is crock full of  

We no longer need a Sherlock Holmes figure in our lives anymore, as you are deliberately giving up our own privacy for the sake of convenience, digging your own grave for when the wrong party decides it's time to bury you.
View Quote


So, you're mad that you'll get caught in a lie of denial?

You're also assuming that the fingerprint is uploaded to anything and not saved locally on the device... just like bio-locks for safes
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:14:01 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Uh....

if every fingerprint is only 5KB in size, it would only take around 300TB of storage to hold fingerprints for all living "citizens of the world". so yeah, it's realistic, relatively cheap, and why the fuck wouldn't they?

in fact they could afford to store multiple finger prints per each one of your fingers and build a pretty good unquestionable virtual model of your finger using multiple data points....
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  



How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?



Lol
You really think apple is going to keep a database of users fingerprints?


Uh....

if every fingerprint is only 5KB in size, it would only take around 300TB of storage to hold fingerprints for all living "citizens of the world". so yeah, it's realistic, relatively cheap, and why the fuck wouldn't they?

in fact they could afford to store multiple finger prints per each one of your fingers and build a pretty good unquestionable virtual model of your finger using multiple data points....


Paranoia. You has it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:15:25 AM EDT
I figure the more data Google collects, the  better it knows me and, therefore, the better my porn results will be.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:16:50 AM EDT
Lol @ Above
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:16:50 AM EDT
I'm sure there will be the means to disable it, if not from Apple, than via jail breaking.

I have the 5, and I see no need to upgrade for awhile, so I'll wait and see before freaking out. Nobody is forcing me to upgrade to a 5s, and if there is a big enough backlash, a competitor will offer a phone without it.

Bro, do you even capitalism?
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:19:08 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Did you know that the iPhone has forward and rear facing cameras.  If they can surreptitiously take your fingerprint, who's to say they aren't recording everything you do or look at when the phone is out of your pocket.  
View Quote


Cover the lenses with duct tape or a potato.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:20:42 AM EDT
There will be a way to disable it (just like you can disable passcode lock) if it is indeed a feature. I for one am all for this feature and hope to see it offered. Some people tell their SO's and kids their password, hell I know my friend's wife's password. Plus, I really hate typing in a passcode.

As far as "the government" etc... Hell, they have my prints from all sorts of sources anyway.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:21:58 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
fingerprints prove YOU are the one who accessed your phone at a given date and time so you can't just claim it wasnt you when you find yourself in deep shit. its undeniable proof that puts you (fingerprint) at a place (GPS tracking) and time (phone clock) doing something (phone application logs) or talking to someone (phone history). it's the final piece of the god damned big brother puzzle.

some of you people need to wake the fuck up

especially you "i had my fingerprints taken for a job once so i'm already in the books - whatever" folks

this whole thread is crock full of  

We no longer need a Sherlock Holmes figure in our lives anymore, as you are deliberately giving up our own privacy for the sake of convenience, digging your own grave for when the wrong party decides it's time to bury you.
View Quote



...so don't buy one?
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:22:11 AM EDT
double tap
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:22:20 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


How many sets of your fingerprints are already on file?  

For me there are at least 4:

1. Nebraska Insurance License
2. Nebraska Bar Association
3. Nebraska State Patrol (x2 for CCW)
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  



How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?


How many sets of your fingerprints are already on file?  

For me there are at least 4:

1. Nebraska Insurance License
2. Nebraska Bar Association
3. Nebraska State Patrol (x2 for CCW)


My fingerprints?  Dozens probably - Bar, Law School, CHL, TS/SCI, NFA.  But I'd be willing to bet money that what I mentioned happens.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:23:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
fingerprints prove YOU are the one who accessed your phone at a given date and time so you can't just claim it wasnt you when you find yourself in deep shit. its undeniable proof that puts you (fingerprint) at a place (GPS tracking) and time (phone clock) doing something (phone application logs) or talking to someone (phone history). it's the final piece of the god damned big brother puzzle.

some of you people need to wake the fuck up

especially you "i had my fingerprints taken for a job once so i'm already in the books - whatever" folks

this whole thread is crock full of  

We no longer need a Sherlock Holmes figure in our lives anymore, as you are deliberately giving up our own privacy for the sake of convenience, digging your own grave for when the wrong party decides it's time to bury you.
View Quote

It may also allow me to use your fingerprint I took when I arrested you to open your phone.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:26:36 AM EDT
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Quoted:

So, you're mad that you'll get caught in a lie of denial?
View Quote


Everyone has something to hide. Even you my friend.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:26:42 AM EDT
and if you stick it up your arse it'll take a stool sample.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:26:42 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Lol
You really think apple is going to keep a database of users fingerprints?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  



How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?



Lol
You really think apple is going to keep a database of users fingerprints?


Apple keeps a database of queries for their Siri voice app, which I'm sure is much more memory intensive than a fingerprint scan.  Hell, I'd do it if I were in Apple's place and charge per access as an extra stream of revenue.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:27:04 AM EDT
I just set them up to use my penis. this way NSA knows exactly what I think of them
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:27:08 AM EDT
They already have my full bio metrics, so oh well
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:30:03 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

It may also allow me to use your fingerprint I took when I arrested you to open your phone.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
fingerprints prove YOU are the one who accessed your phone at a given date and time so you can't just claim it wasnt you when you find yourself in deep shit. its undeniable proof that puts you (fingerprint) at a place (GPS tracking) and time (phone clock) doing something (phone application logs) or talking to someone (phone history). it's the final piece of the god damned big brother puzzle.

some of you people need to wake the fuck up

especially you "i had my fingerprints taken for a job once so i'm already in the books - whatever" folks

this whole thread is crock full of  

We no longer need a Sherlock Holmes figure in our lives anymore, as you are deliberately giving up our own privacy for the sake of convenience, digging your own grave for when the wrong party decides it's time to bury you.

It may also allow me to use your fingerprint I took when I arrested you to open your phone.


Yup which is why I would never use a fingerprint to ever protect anything valuable, at most I would use it in conjunction with a password.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:30:44 AM EDT
My prints are so out there.....none of this stuff bothers me.


Yeah, I'm that cool.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:32:37 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Paranoia. You has it.
View Quote


Why is it paranoid to think that something this easily doable can't or won't be done? The fact is this stuff is too juicy to pass up, both on the part of the consumer (you and I), the producer (apple, samsung, etc) and the enabler/subsidizer (the gov't).

10 years later, let's dig up this post and see how many people feel the same way.

You're entirely right - no one is FORCING me to use a smartphone. I don't need to take the job that requires me to use it. I don't need to buy one to keep in touch with friends and family who would pressure me into doing so. I don't need to use it whatsoever. It would be my choice to or not to use it. But the fact is - if it's a desirable feature, companies will put it in. There might be a way to turn it off, but who has the ability to turn it back on. When it's off, is it really off?

Think of the implications.

To think something like this wont catch on, be trumpeted as a great technological advance by pretty much everyone, and then eventually abused - would itself be insane and based on recent evidence of gov't spying would be irrational.

Maybe you're the one who is paranoid that all the "tin foil" is coming fruition one step at a time and the guide of "technological progress that enables betterment of society as a whole" and nevermind the aspect of convenience.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:35:28 AM EDT

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Quoted:
How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:



Quoted:

If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  







How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?




 
That's not the way that fingerprint readers in smartphones work.




There's not enough data there to be useful as an LEO tool.  




ScaryBlackGuns is right.  
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:37:46 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
fingerprints prove YOU are the one who accessed your phone at a given date and time so you can't just claim it wasnt you when you find yourself in deep shit. its undeniable proof that puts you (fingerprint) at a place (GPS tracking) and time (phone clock) doing something (phone application logs) or talking to someone (phone history). it's the final piece of the god damned big brother puzzle.

some of you people need to wake the fuck up

especially you "i had my fingerprints taken for a job once so i'm already in the books - whatever" folks

this whole thread is crock full of  

We no longer need a Sherlock Holmes figure in our lives anymore, as you are deliberately giving up our own privacy for the sake of convenience, digging your own grave for when the wrong party decides it's time to bury you.
View Quote



Do like those of us in technologically challenged regions do, prepaid phones. You may not be able to google the shit out of things but is damn near a guarantee no one will be able to track shit using the the phone.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:37:51 AM EDT
Fuck an iPhone. Had 2 of them. Went Android and am so glad I did.

I'm pre-ordering the Samsung Galaxy Note 3 next payday..
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:40:47 AM EDT
my last point will be - at what point will the psych's make "fear of technology" (let's call it "technophobia" and it probably already exists) a mental disorder? then 10 years later, deem it too serious to not commit people for having this "disorder"?

people will eventually become afraid to speak out against stuff like this and it's potential risk. then, they'll be pressured so hard into using it that they'll have no choice to but to or be "diagnosed".

every action has unintended consequences. GPS systems were excellent because you no longer needed a map. but a map can't prove you were in a certain location at a date and time. it just simple means you own a map. a GPD on the other hand....

before blackberries and other smart phones 20 years ago, it was very rare for most people to spontaneously work on the weekends unless you owned a business and chose to or unless you previously had committed to going into the office to get work done to meet a deadline or because it was just your job responsibility to.

now, it's been proven that people are working more weekends against their better judgment simply because they have no excuse for being unreachable. sure, these people can all quit their jobs and find new ones. but it is the general expectation that now people are available 24/7 that is undeniable. this is an excellent example of an unintended consequence on the part of the "consumer". and if you were a company, would you yourself not want to feel you were entitled to reach your employees 24/7 because you pay for their phone, which enables them to be reachable?

the expectations of society are changing, and not in a good way.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:42:07 AM EDT
It was the Defense Networks they were plugged into everything!
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:44:57 AM EDT
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Quoted:

There's not enough data there to be useful as an LEO tool.  

ScaryBlackGuns is right.  
View Quote


Not yet.

The gov't had a hard time w/ wiretaps 50 years ago, actually needing to literally "tap" the line at someone's house. They actually needed a warrant. Now, they can just tap you through the backdoor that the phone companies agreed to install because the government subsidized it. And without a warrant.

The technology is already here and will just become more and more refined every year.

I implore you to watch Minority Report today and ask yourself if this stuff looked as believable now as it did when the move first came out. I think you'll be in for a surprise.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:47:22 AM EDT
This is why Android is better.

There is exactly one new model of iOS phone released at a time. Take it or leave it.

There are many Android phones with different features from different manufacturers.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:48:34 AM EDT
All this shit bothers me.





Does anyone believe it is consumer demand driving these advancements and additions to the consumer market?





I sure as hell do not. I have never heard anyone say, gee wouldnt it be great if my consumer electronics would take my finger prints, track where I go in real time and wouldnt it be great of it could record audio video and pictures that could be put into some database of face recognition without my consent.


Then I could be tracked and logged by who knows who everywhere I go, that would be great.






Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:51:28 AM EDT
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Quoted:
All this shit bothers me.

Does anyone believe it is consumer demand driving these advancements and additions to the consumer market?

I sure as hell do not. I have never heard anyone say, gee wouldnt it be great if my consumer electronics would take my finger prints, track where I go in real time and wouldnt it be great of it could record audio video and pictures that could be put into some database of face recognition without my consent.
Then I could be tracked and logged by who knows who everywhere I go, that would be great.


View Quote


Actually, my hatred for password or pin protected lock screens has made me wish for some of those things.  It has gotten so bad that I removed my Exchange account from my phone so I could run it unlocked.  I would gladly pay for a phone that automatically recognizes me and lets me access it immediately, while securing the phone against intruders.
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:52:33 AM EDT




Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
 



That's not the way that fingerprint readers in smartphones work.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:




If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  

How long do you think it will be before the Feds present Apple with a Request Letter or Warrant seeking access to their fingerprint data in order to assist an investigation?





 



That's not the way that fingerprint readers in smartphones work.













There's not enough data there to be useful as an LEO tool.  













ScaryBlackGuns is right.  
Neither is the NSA keeping all of your data, even the encrypted they get a backdoor to.




But it is information and information is power.




Information that could be used in any number of ways.


A permanent record of your actions, movements, correspondence, thoughts, leanings, associations, territory, etc..



Its not the local PD who has anything to do with it.
 
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 10:57:38 AM EDT

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Quoted:


If anyone is this paranoid they shouldn't own a smartphone.  anything electronic



View Quote




 
Link Posted: 9/7/2013 11:06:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
my last point will be - at what point will the psych's make "fear of technology" (let's call it "technophobia" and it probably already exists) a mental disorder? then 10 years later, deem it too serious to not commit people for having this "disorder"?

people will eventually become afraid to speak out against stuff like this and it's potential risk. then, they'll be pressured so hard into using it that they'll have no choice to but to or be "diagnosed".

every action has unintended consequences. GPS systems were excellent because you no longer needed a map. but a map can't prove you were in a certain location at a date and time. it just simple means you own a map. a GPD on the other hand....

before blackberries and other smart phones 20 years ago, it was very rare for most people to spontaneously work on the weekends unless you owned a business and chose to or unless you previously had committed to going into the office to get work done to meet a deadline or because it was just your job responsibility to.

now, it's been proven that people are working more weekends against their better judgment simply because they have no excuse for being unreachable. sure, these people can all quit their jobs and find new ones. but it is the general expectation that now people are available 24/7 that is undeniable. this is an excellent example of an unintended consequence on the part of the "consumer". and if you were a company, would you yourself not want to feel you were entitled to reach your employees 24/7 because you pay for their phone, which enables them to be reachable?

the expectations of society are changing, and not in a good way.
View Quote


That's why I don't and won't carry a company-paid phone. I have had two phones that I paid the bill on before...one for "business" and  one for friends & family. And if you don't want to be bothered by your phone, turn the motherfucker off...if I'm not getting paid, fuck it. My time is MY TIME. It really is that simple.


Link Posted: 9/7/2013 11:07:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
All this shit bothers me.

Does anyone believe it is consumer demand driving these advancements and additions to the consumer market?

I sure as hell do not. I have never heard anyone say, gee wouldnt it be great if my consumer electronics would take my finger prints, track where I go in real time and wouldnt it be great of it could record audio video and pictures that could be put into some database of face recognition without my consent.
Then I could be tracked and logged by who knows who everywhere I go, that would be great.


View Quote


And that's why my next "phone" is just going to be a phone. No internet browser or apps or any shit like that. Just a phone.
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