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Posted: 7/20/2017 10:48:07 AM EST
Ever wondered why Apple products are expensive?


At peak production, Apple is manufacturing roughly 1 million iPhones per day. More importantly, every single one of those phones is sculpted to 10 micron tolerances, from a single block of aluminum, as is every Mac, iPad, Watch and many of the accessories. It is difficult to convey to folks without a manufacturing background how insane this is, but let me try.

Your typical phone has a stamped metal frame that gets placed into a mold to have the plastic outside shell injected around it. Total cycle time per phone of perhaps 20 seconds, and it isn't like this makes a chintzy part - the same process is used to make the frame of a Glock. To build a million phone enclosures a day, you would need a few hundred machines and could fit the entire operation into a healthy sized Shenzhen industrial building. You can, of course, add some glitz and finishing processes to gussie up your plastic phone a bit, but those additions don't add very much time.

An iPhone however, starts as a block of aluminum and is faced, milled, drilled, tapped, and de-burred in a bevy of machining operations, getting passed (mostly by hand, but increasingly by robot arm) through a series of mills, each set-up with precision fixtures that hold one side of the phone to face the spindle. Just the interior cavity of an iPhone requires 3-4 minutes of takt time while micro end mills carve out the tiny details and features that the interior components will locate against and fasten to. Just that one operation requires 3000 CNC mills to meet the 1 million per day demand. Add more machines to do the other sides of the phone, plus the crazy high-tech multi-axis lathes that make the buttons, plus production for iPads,and iMacs, and MacBooks, and Watches, and many of the accessories.

This high cycle time is why Apple is the world's largest owner of CNC milling machines and swiss style lathes. Rumors are that the number is around 40,000 with about half dedicated to iPhone production. I've seen pictures of one shop with acres of Fanuc Robodrills making iPhones, and that was only one of about a dozen such facilities. Apple is such a huge buyer of a particular kind of mill (BT30 spindle drill-tap centers) that Fanuc, Brother and DMG Mori each have factories dedicated to building machines exclusively for Apple.

This is not a position that happened overnight; it is a capability and scale that could only come about through iterative, strategic, long-term evolution. This started well over a decade ago with the MacBook Air's unibody and has been relentlessly improved, deep partnerships cultivated, and new CNC machining techniques created to achieve the position Apple is in today. In many ways, Apple is far more dedicated to aluminum machining than the company ever was to the PowerPC and switching away will be far more tricky.
View Quote
Read the article here.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 10:53:08 AM EST
[#1]
I bet their LEAN guys make bank
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 10:58:55 AM EST
[#2]
And then a large percentage of their customers put on a cheap plastic case covering it all up.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:01:15 AM EST
[#3]
Pretty awesome the technology involved in making these phones.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:02:48 AM EST
[#4]
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:03:37 AM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And then a large percentage of their customers put on a cheap plastic case covering it all up.
View Quote
No case here. I like to live dangerously.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:04:42 AM EST
[#6]
IPhones are billet? Tis changes everything
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:06:02 AM EST
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote
And why mill that instead of grind it?

Kharn
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:06:20 AM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote
Have you seen how tiny some of the parts are in their devices.  When you are driving yo get devices thinner and thinner it matters.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:07:52 AM EST
[#9]
All that war time industrial capacity in the hands of our enemies.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:08:09 AM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote
Think about all of the sensitive electronics they have to pack in there.

Hell, I do automation for a small company that works with automotive manufacturers and some of the parts we do have tighter specs than that. You'd be surprised.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:09:29 AM EST
[#11]
Chinese manufacturing is very capable of making high quality stuff for Apple. This proves it. Walmart and others are the complete opposite.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:11:15 AM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote
I was machining to 0.00005" (50 millionths as it's called) flatness tolerance when I was grinding carbide dies as a 17-y/o tool and die student. That was over 20 years ago.

4 tenths tolerance ain't shit with today's modern machinery.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:11:33 AM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
All that war time industrial capacity in the hands of our enemies.
View Quote
That was my first thought too.  That's a lot of machines that could be cranking out fuze parts, jet engine parts, etc.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:12:52 AM EST
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:13:28 AM EST
[#15]
I've always found it amazing how many iPhones Apple can turn out... I took one apart to replace a screen, there is a long going on in there (to a non-electronics guy.)
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:13:31 AM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
They're obviously lying.


At least once a week, I have a conversation with a founder that wants to design something that mimics an Apple product. Maybe it’s a surface with no ejector pin marks, or some complex texturing, or laser drilled holes, it doesn’t really matter: it’s impossible for a startup to do certain things. “But no,” they say, “Apple does it. Why can’t I?”
Apple is an exception to nearly every rule.

What happened when Apple wanted to CNC machine a million MacBook bodies a year? They bought 10k CNC machines to do it. How about when they wanted to laser drill holes in MacBook Pros for the sleep light but only one company made a machine that could drill those 20 µm holes in aluminum? It bought the company that made the machines and took all the inventory. And that time when they needed batteries to fit into a tiny machined housing but no manufacturer was willing to make batteries so thin? Apple made their own battery cells. From scratch.

Pretty much no company, big or small, can afford to do these things. Yes, Apple has done a great job building many of these products and yes, consumers have come to love many of these difficult-to-manufacture features. But you are not Apple. So long as you’re providing value to your customers, taking the fit and finish of your product down a notch is okay. Especially for your first few production runs.
So what should you avoid? Here’s a few things that Apple often does that can cause problems for a startup:

White plastic
White is of course the most difficult color to mold. If you NEED to use white, never have two separately molded white-on-white parts. They will never be perfectly color matched.

CNC machining at scale
CNC machining is fantastic for prototypes and pretty awesome for high margin parts like hip implants and turbine blades. It is not for consumer devices. Figure out a way to cast your metal parts.

Laser drilled holes
Invisible laser drilled holes are far more difficult to make than it may seem. You can usually accomplish a similar look and feel without the complex secondary operation if you’re willing to sacrifice a bit.

Molded plastic packaging
Many small Apple products come in polycarbonate + ABS/PC mix molded packaging. This is both harder and more expensive than you might think. Recycled cardboard is your friend

No ejector pin marks
Unless you’re a billionaire genius, your product will have noticeable ejector pin marks. A good CM knows how to hide these well. Nearly zero CMs hide them as well as Apple does. Embrace it. Most consumers don’t know what the hell an ejector pin mark is anyways.

4-color, double-walled, matte boxes + HD foam inserts
I know you’re going to do this anyways, but be aware that these kind of boxes will literally be the most expensive line item on your BOM. It’s not unusual for them to cost upwards of $12/unit at scale. And then they get thrown away.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:15:07 AM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I was machining to 0.00005" (50 millionths as it's called) flatness tolerance when I was grinding carbide dies as a 17-y/o tool and die student. That was over 20 years ago.

4 tenths tolerance ain't shit with today's modern machinery.
View Quote
I think you misunderstand, I know you can hold 4 tenths with modern equipment, but I question why you would on something like a phone. Especially if you need to produce the numbers like Apple does.

Then again I design agricultural equipment, and I dont expect my shop to hold much more than +/- 5 thousands.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:15:24 AM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Think about all of the sensitive electronics they have to pack in there.

Hell, I do automation for a small company that works with automotive manufacturers and some of the parts we do have tighter specs than that. You'd be surprised.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
Think about all of the sensitive electronics they have to pack in there.

Hell, I do automation for a small company that works with automotive manufacturers and some of the parts we do have tighter specs than that. You'd be surprised.
Yeah, for small parts, +/- 0.0004" is nothing unusual.

For high performance high density electronic devices, thermal management is extremely important and close fitting parts greatly improve heat transfer.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:16:13 AM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Chinese manufacturing is very capable of making high quality stuff for Apple. This proves it. Walmart and others are the complete opposite.
View Quote
China/Asia get a bad rap, saying they make junk... It's all about QC and how much a company wants to spend on it; Apple, Arc'Teryx, others sell a good product w/ good qc, and ot's reflects in the price.

Look at what happens when Glock or Sig try to save a few cents on a part or qc.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:17:18 AM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I think you misunderstand, I know you can hold 4 tenths with modern equipment, but I question why you would on something like a phone. Especially if you need to produce the numbers like Apple does.

Then again I design agricultural equipment, and I dont expect my shop to hold much more than +/- 5 thousands.
View Quote
Gotcha.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:18:25 AM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That was my first thought too.  That's a lot of machines that could be cranking out fuze parts, jet engine parts, etc.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
All that war time industrial capacity in the hands of our enemies.
That was my first thought too.  That's a lot of machines that could be cranking out fuze parts, jet engine parts, etc.
Yup. Not to mention the peace time jobs, economy and technical expertise that should be ours.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:18:46 AM EST
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote
It's not unheard of.

Do you even micro-controller, bro?
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:20:46 AM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I think you misunderstand, I know you can hold 4 tenths with modern equipment, but I question why you would on something like a phone. Especially if you need to produce the numbers like Apple does.

Then again I design agricultural equipment, and I dont expect my shop to hold much more than +/- 5 thousands.
View Quote
Why would you? Because you're Apple.

Just check out How they make the Apple Watch.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:21:30 AM EST
[#24]
Good God that's all machined? Insane....
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:22:08 AM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I was machining to 0.00005" (50 millionths as it's called) flatness tolerance when I was grinding carbide dies as a 17-y/o tool and die student. That was over 20 years ago.

4 tenths tolerance ain't shit with today's modern machinery.
View Quote
Tolerance between grinding flatness and a mill op are a wee bit different. 4 tenths is a tight tolerance for any VMC where typical repeated positional accuracy is perhaps 2 tenths over 10 inches. In a large scale production environment it'd be particularly challenging to hold anything under 1 thou across a whole days run. Consider for a minute just the challenge of keeping tool and machine wear compensation in check across that many machines and operators.

My expectation is that 10 micron is just the tightest tolerance on any given part. It's pretty unlikely that they're hitting that on every feature across a million parts a day.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:24:59 AM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote
On a couple key features.   Not on every single dimension.

Holding +/- .0005 isn't that difficult in a controlled environment, on modern CNC machinery, with all resources at Apple's disposal.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:25:25 AM EST
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They're obviously lying.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
They're obviously lying.


At least once a week, I have a conversation with a founder that wants to design something that mimics an Apple product. Maybe it’s a surface with no ejector pin marks, or some complex texturing, or laser drilled holes, it doesn’t really matter: it’s impossible for a startup to do certain things. “But no,” they say, “Apple does it. Why can’t I?”
Apple is an exception to nearly every rule.

What happened when Apple wanted to CNC machine a million MacBook bodies a year? They bought 10k CNC machines to do it. How about when they wanted to laser drill holes in MacBook Pros for the sleep light but only one company made a machine that could drill those 20 µm holes in aluminum? It bought the company that made the machines and took all the inventory. And that time when they needed batteries to fit into a tiny machined housing but no manufacturer was willing to make batteries so thin? Apple made their own battery cells. From scratch.

Pretty much no company, big or small, can afford to do these things. Yes, Apple has done a great job building many of these products and yes, consumers have come to love many of these difficult-to-manufacture features. But you are not Apple. So long as you’re providing value to your customers, taking the fit and finish of your product down a notch is okay. Especially for your first few production runs.
So what should you avoid? Here’s a few things that Apple often does that can cause problems for a startup:

White plastic
White is of course the most difficult color to mold. If you NEED to use white, never have two separately molded white-on-white parts. They will never be perfectly color matched.

CNC machining at scale
CNC machining is fantastic for prototypes and pretty awesome for high margin parts like hip implants and turbine blades. It is not for consumer devices. Figure out a way to cast your metal parts.

Laser drilled holes
Invisible laser drilled holes are far more difficult to make than it may seem. You can usually accomplish a similar look and feel without the complex secondary operation if you’re willing to sacrifice a bit.

Molded plastic packaging
Many small Apple products come in polycarbonate + ABS/PC mix molded packaging. This is both harder and more expensive than you might think. Recycled cardboard is your friend

No ejector pin marks
Unless you’re a billionaire genius, your product will have noticeable ejector pin marks. A good CM knows how to hide these well. Nearly zero CMs hide them as well as Apple does. Embrace it. Most consumers don’t know what the hell an ejector pin mark is anyways.

4-color, double-walled, matte boxes + HD foam inserts
I know you’re going to do this anyways, but be aware that these kind of boxes will literally be the most expensive line item on your BOM. It’s not unusual for them to cost upwards of $12/unit at scale. And then they get thrown away.
Sounds fairly vertical to me.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:26:19 AM EST
[#28]
I guess I can thank Apple for indirectly supporting greenhouse gas producing, huge carbon footprint, baby seal clubbing, rainforest destroying, ice cap melting motorsports



Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:27:17 AM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Why would you? Because you're Apple.

Just check out How they make the Apple Watch.
View Quote
Thanks for the link, that's really neat! I had no idea that Apple forged the housings for the Apple Watch.

Apple does do some crazy things.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:29:27 AM EST
[#30]
I'm a Swiss programmer. Where they hiring?
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:30:50 AM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

On a couple key features.   Not on every single dimension.

Holding +/- .0005 isn't that difficult in a controlled environment, on modern CNC machinery, with all resources at Apple's disposal.
View Quote
I just spun a shitload of pins for a Gun company and held +.0000/-.0002 alllll day long.

And a couple hours lights out.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:32:20 AM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Thanks for the link, that's really neat! I had no idea that Apple forged the housings for the Apple Watch.

Apple does do some crazy things.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Thanks for the link, that's really neat! I had no idea that Apple forged the housings for the Apple Watch.

Apple does do some crazy things.
My favorite part was:

Another process Apple leads the world at is laser machining. We'll see it twice in the Aluminum video, but the above picture is extraordinarily impressive. Machining tends to leave a little lip on the edge of metal, known as a burr. Often just 0.05mm thick, burrs are razor sharp and are the bane of a machinists existence. They can be milled off in the machine using very tiny tools, or removed by hand, or knocked down in tumbling, sanding or other processes - all of which present tradeoffs.

Apple is doing something utterly unique in this 5 seconds of video - they are using a laser to clean up any burrs or finishing defects from machining. You can see the laser quickly outline the lip of an inside pocket, and come in for a more intense second pass on the floor of that pocket.

Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:32:40 AM EST
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote


I'm no apple fanboy, but I have an iphone for work. have you held one recently?
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:37:49 AM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I just spun a shitload of pins for a Gun company and held +.0000/-.0002 alllll day long.

And a couple hours lights out.
View Quote
Doesn't count on a lathe
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:39:32 AM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And then a large percentage of their customers put on a cheap plastic case covering it all up.
View Quote
Because even with all the magic, the glass breaks if you look at it wrong.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:40:51 AM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
10 Micron tolerance? That's ~0.0004" sorry, not buying that. Why the fuck would apple need to make the frame to that level of scrutiny?
View Quote
They don't. They have bins of parts to sort which housings will fit other housings.

And you can keep that tolerance on a sliding scale. 1mm +/-0.01 is doable. I've had housings at 200mm +/-  0.1mm keep a 10+ cpk.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:44:17 AM EST
[#37]
Weird. Pictures aren't showing up for me on the webpage.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:48:25 AM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


They're obviously lying.
View Quote
They're correct about the ejector pin marks.

We used to test out plastic in generic molds and they can me quite obvious with the crappy old machines we had.  Apple does a good job with all their plastics from what I've seen.  I've had the pleasure (not really) of replacing a screen or two on iPod touches and one iPhone.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:49:08 AM EST
[#39]
I IMPRESSED
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:50:53 AM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Because even with all the magic, the glass breaks if you look at it wrong.
View Quote
I'm not sure what brand glass iPhones use.  My iPhone screen is cracked but my work Android with Corning Gorilla Glass 4 seems a bit tougher.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:52:42 AM EST
[#41]
Here's another: How Apple Makes the Mac Pro



Link Posted: 7/20/2017 11:57:42 AM EST
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm not sure what brand glass iPhones use.  My iPhone screen is cracked but my work Android with Corning Gorilla Glass 4 seems a bit tougher.
View Quote
Corning, the same brand that produces Gorilla Glass(which is just marketing).

Apple is notorious for going to manufacturers and having something custom produced(even if the variant is only slightly different).
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 12:07:08 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They're correct about the ejector pin marks.

We used to test out plastic in generic molds and they can me quite obvious with the crappy old machines we had.  Apple does a good job with all their plastics from what I've seen.  I've had the pleasure (not really) of replacing a screen or two on iPod touches and one iPhone.
View Quote
It's easy to do for a good tool maker. If they do their final edm burn with all electors keyed and in place you will end up with little to no witness lines at the ejectors.s.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 12:08:01 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Corning, the same brand that produces Gorilla Glass(which is just marketing).

Apple is notorious for going to manufacturers and having something custom produced(even if the variant is only slightly different).
View Quote


Gotcha.  I know Apple is super secretive but wasn't sure.  It is also an older version of the alumiosilicate glass in my iPhone as its an older model compared to my Samsung.  

I've spent some time up in Painted Post and Corning as well as being involved on the periphery when they went full-bore to start making the glass at a much higher rate in Korea and Taiwan a little over 10 years ago...as well as Asahi in Japan.  I remember Ashai well as one of the Japanese bricklayers dropped a brick on our employee's hands and a Japanese laborer killed himself with a forklift.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 12:10:50 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Gotcha.  I know Apple is super secretive but wasn't sure.  It is also an older version of the alumiosilicate glass in my iPhone as its an older model compared to my Samsung.  

I've spent some time up in Painted Post and Corning as well as being involved on the periphery when they went full-bore to start making the glass at a much higher rate in Korea and Taiwan a little over 10 years ago...as well as Asahi in Japan.  I remember Ashai well as one of the Japanese bricklayers dropped a brick on our employee's hands and a Japanese laborer killed himself with a forklift.
View Quote
Yeah, it's technically a "secret" relationship, but not hard to find out that they work together.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 12:16:43 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And then a large percentage of their customers put on a cheap plastic case covering it all up.
View Quote


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 12:18:19 PM EST
[#47]
And then one day SkyNet became self aware...
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 12:19:17 PM EST
[#48]
Apple should get into the suppressor market!
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 12:21:01 PM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Apple should get into the suppressor market!
View Quote
But $5 sheet metal suppressors are going to dominate the market, according to Arfcom.
Link Posted: 7/20/2017 12:25:51 PM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I just spun a shitload of pins for a Gun company and held +.0000/-.0002 alllll day long.

And a couple hours lights out.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

On a couple key features.   Not on every single dimension.

Holding +/- .0005 isn't that difficult in a controlled environment, on modern CNC machinery, with all resources at Apple's disposal.
I just spun a shitload of pins for a Gun company and held +.0000/-.0002 alllll day long.

And a couple hours lights out.
An .125 pin and a 5" skeletonized AL frame are different animals. Thermal expansion alone on the frame says they ain't holding 4 tenths on anything but maybe some hole sizes.

People buy the hype that modern CNC can hold this or that tolerance. Yeah, under ideal conditions, for short runs on certain materials.

There are too many variables to hold .0004 over a frame like that. And .0004 tolerance is actually +/- .0002 which is about 1/15 the thickness of a hair.

.001 is cake. Get below .0005 and it gets dicey (on that big and thin of a piece of AL) even on new, quality CNC machines and it's not the machine's fault.
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