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Posted: 7/19/2008 6:51:39 PM EDT
Seems to me like they're doing the classic Ho Chi Mihn/Sun Yat Sen thing - retreating where the enemy is strong to the place where the enemy is weakest...

Like Afghanistan.

I'm predicting that Al Qaida has set aside Iraq until we think we've won and we pull out. Meanwhile, they are piling up men and launching attacks where we are not serious about defending our outposts - namely, Aghanistan. The terrain is mountainous and there's less natural inhabitants who are tired of their stupid and murderous tactics of blowing up the civilian population like in Iraq.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 6:56:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
Seems to me like they're doing the classic Ho Chi Mihn/Sun Yat Sen thing - retreating where the enemy is strong to the place where the enemy is weakest...

Like Afghanistan.

I'm predicting that Al Qaida has set aside Iraq until we think we've won and we pull out. Meanwhile, they are piling up men and launching attacks where we are not serious about defending our outposts - namely, Aghanistan. The terrain is mountainous and there's less natural inhabitants who are tired of their stupid and murderous tactics of blowing up the civilian population like in Iraq.


i think the aas kicking in Iraq worked. They are just taking the fight to where it, with the complicity of a large segment of the Pakistani government, has a better chance of make things go their way.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 6:58:23 PM EDT
If getting your ass kicked is some kind of mastermind strategy.............uh, don't know what to say.

I think you've been conditioned to believe American victory in war is impossible.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 6:59:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
Seems to me like they're doing the classic Ho Chi Mihn/Sun Yat Sen thing - retreating where the enemy is strong to the place where the enemy is weakest...

Like Afghanistan.

I'm predicting that Al Qaida has set aside Iraq until we think we've won and we pull out. Meanwhile, they are piling up men and launching attacks where we are not serious about defending our outposts - namely, Aghanistan. The terrain is mountainous and there's less natural inhabitants who are tired of their stupid and murderous tactics of blowing up the civilian population like in Iraq.


Nah...

They got their ass kicked in Iraq, and lost all credibility...

They haven't just 'faded into the woodwork', they've been driven out of the whole country, except Mosul (where they are fighting a 'Custer's Last Stand' action, at present)....
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:07:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
If getting your ass kicked is some kind of mastermind strategy.............uh, don't know what to say.

I think you've been conditioned to believe American victory in war is impossible.


If we don't fight smart we will lose. Regardless the region will be in turmoil up until the end.

God bless our troops.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:14:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
If getting your ass kicked is some kind of mastermind strategy.............uh, don't know what to say.

I think you've been conditioned to believe American victory in war is impossible.


Oh, stop.

You know, it would serve you well to understand that it's unwise to think your enemy's genetically predisposed to weakness. It made the war in the Pacific last probably a year longer than it should have - we viewed them as mypoic runts and monkeys, instead of a vicious enemy.

They were nearly beaten in '43, but came back hardcore in the latter half of '44. Our racist ideology was nearly as disasterous as theirs was. Neither side thought they could fail by way of racial inferiority to the other.

I assure you the Islamofascists don't think they can fail. They are trying anything they can, up to and including fomenting disasterous division here in the Good Ol' USA.

It's working.

I hear Leftitarians whining about Iraq even as we are winning. We are about to elect a person that will immediately rescue defeat from the jaws of victory in about 11 months. You know, we still have plenty of opportunities to lose this war; never let the likelihood of us winning prevent you from identifying the Leftists who are trying to take that victory away from us.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:16:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
If getting your ass kicked is some kind of mastermind strategy.............uh, don't know what to say.



I agree. They lost and lost hard. If they return to Iraq in any kind of strength, they'll have to do it, in their patois, as the dogs of the Iranians.

As for Afghanistan, I believe that's lost to them as well. I'm guessing their main interest is to collect either the money for Hash and poppy powder, or the actual products themselves. The rest of it is for "show" so they can scare the populace to at least not turn in their location to the government every time they show up.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:18:20 PM EDT
When I was there they were getting their ass kicked...
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:18:34 PM EDT
They didn't just lose in Iraq. They showed their true colors - that they'd even attack and kill fellow Muslims.

"Terrorism in the name of Islam" has been discredited.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:21:01 PM EDT
Half of the purpose of this war is to destroy not only the material ability but also the reputation of Al-Quada and other such militant groups as defenders of Arab pride against Western power. If the best strategy they can come up with is to come into Iraq, get their asses beaten and thrown out by Iraqis and Americans working together, and retreat to Afghanistan, then I think we're doing pretty damn good.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:21:55 PM EDT
Al Qaeda establishing itself in Iraq was gull shucked to the rubes in the first place.

You don't impose SUNNI theocracy on SHIA Muslims anymore than you could impose mass on the Baptists.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:22:51 PM EDT
"Breaking: In the tenth and final round AQ pulls a Rope a Dope in Iraq!!!"


I dont think so!
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:27:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:

Originally Posted By raven:
If getting your ass kicked is some kind of mastermind strategy.............uh, don't know what to say.

I think you've been conditioned to believe American victory in war is impossible.


Oh, stop.

You know, it would serve you well to understand that it's unwise to think your enemy's genetically predisposed to weakness. It made the war in the Pacific last probably a year longer than it should have - we viewed them as mypoic runts and monkeys, instead of a vicious enemy.

They were nearly beaten in '43, but came back hardcore in the latter half of '44. Our racist ideology was nearly as disasterous as theirs was. Neither side thought they could fail by way of racial inferiority to the other.

I assure you the Islamofascists don't think they can fail. They are trying anything they can, up to and including fomenting disasterous division here in the Good Ol' USA.

It's working.

I hear Leftitarians whining about Iraq even as we are winning. We are about to elect a person that will immediately rescue defeat from the jaws of victory in about 11 months. You know, we still have plenty of opportunities to lose this war; never let the likelihood of us winning prevent you from identifying the Leftists who are trying to take that victory away from us.



Not sure how your new post relates to what raven wrote, and I'm not sure what identifying leftists has to do with anything.

Dalton Trumbo, a committed Communist, was the Hollywood genius that brought us the propaganda you describe above. That was strictly for here in the US. I can assure you from the old timers I've met that were in the Pacific Theater in WW2, that if they held such notions, their first battle against the Japanese cured them of it.

As for Leftists winning anything, I'm still not sure what you mean unless you believe they can pull off a successful revolution of the proletariet before the congressional elections of 2010.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:27:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
I think you've been conditioned to believe American victory in war is impossible.


This.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:29:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 7:30:48 PM EDT by RustedAce]
I dont think you understand just how many badguys are getting slaughtered by our forces everyday in AFG.

If they decided to change thier focus to AFG, the result has only been for them to die more.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:23:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
I dont think you understand just how many badguys are getting slaughtered by our forces everyday in AFG.

If they decided to change thier focus to AFG, the result has only been for them to die more.


You would know better about this than I do, having had the hard duty of facing those people in combat while I lounged at my civilian job, safe from everything except bitching sales managers.

Thanks again for your service.

I think the enemy thinks in long terms - like decades. They see our willingness to quit while we are ahead (indeed, almost finished) as prima facie evidence of a fundamental weakness in our national character.

What I am thinking is that they will shift their focus to AFG, and will find a new ally who will take them back to IRQ when our focus shifts to AFG.

Perhaps they are counting on a President Obama to do something rash like bomb Pakistan so Muslim fervor could be riled again and their campaign in IRQ could be re-energized?

They think like this. They know the Arab/Muslim mindset. We have only recently shown any comprehension of how to win these people over. If we leave, we will have no representative to press our view.

Which will win? Nine years of disordered freedom or 4,000+ years of vicious tribalism? We will need to be there at least 60 years to fundamentally move these people in a new direction.

Obama will have us out in 2010.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:31:40 PM EDT
We have become accustomed to seeing our military take the fight to the enemy 24/7/365, day, night, bad weather or good. Our enemies don't have those capabilities. It's summer in Afghanistan right now. This is fighting season for them. There is an upturn in violence every summer there, it means little.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:33:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zoinks:
Not sure how your new post relates to what raven wrote, and I'm not sure what identifying leftists has to do with anything.


You might not be as cynical as I am. I have spent 43 years on the planet, and some of my earliest memories was of Leftists trying to take my country apart. They were actively supporting the people that were trying to kill my father in Southeast Asia. I knew it and have resented them ever since. They are doing the same thing today - supporting an evil and crazed enemy who would seek them out first for "defiling the Koran" or some such. They've been at the tip of the spear for 90 years in the grand effort to turn America in to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.


Dalton Trumbo, a committed Communist, was the Hollywood genius that brought us the propaganda you describe above. That was strictly for here in the US. I can assure you from the old timers I've met that were in the Pacific Theater in WW2, that if they held such notions, their first battle against the Japanese cured them of it.


It was our inability to believe the Japanese could be a threat to us that lulled us into complacency - the kind of complacency that lead to Corrigedor and the Bataan Death March.


As for Leftists winning anything, I'm still not sure what you mean unless you believe they can pull off a successful revolution of the proletariet before the congressional elections of 2010.


Are you saying you think Obama and his fellow politicos won't be winning this November? I hope you're right, that the voting public would not be stupid enough to vote back into office people who have a 9% approval rating.

My instinct says that people are tired of the continuous harping by the America-hating Leftist media, and just want them to STFU. They're even willing to vote in Their Favorite Guy so they can go back to watching American Idol.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:33:51 PM EDT
what's with the iraqi pm saying the us should withdraw now?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:37:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By abnormal:
what's with the iraqi pm saying the us should withdraw now?


Iraqi National Security Advisor...

As part of the SOFA....

The rest of his government, is not that stupid...
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:37:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:43:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:44:31 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By mace:
Half of the purpose of this war is to destroy not only the material ability but also the reputation of Al-Quada and other such militant groups as defenders of Arab pride against Western power. If the best strategy they can come up with is to come into Iraq, get their asses beaten and thrown out by Iraqis and Americans working together, and retreat to Afghanistan, then I think we're doing pretty damn good.


Pretty much...

Especially since the inspiration for all this media focus on the 'Upswing in violence in A-stan'...

Was an action that was a spectacular ROUT of Taliban forces....

When the Talis hit a platoon (40 men) with a half-strength battalion (300 men), and suffer ~50% casualties (~140 KIA/WIA).... And are forced to RETREAT after only killing 9 of ours...

That's quite a feat.... For our defenders....

And similarly, the media is spinning US forces kicking ass into 'a problem in Afganhistan'...

Yeah, some 'problem' - the enemy hit a US element with a force that, all things being equal, SHOULD have annihilated our guys due to the disparity in numbers... But all things ARE NOT equal, and they got their ass kicked instead...

If the above is 'bad news' in war, then what is good news?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:46:52 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:02:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By mace:
Half of the purpose of this war is to destroy not only the material ability but also the reputation of Al-Quada and other such militant groups as defenders of Arab pride against Western power. If the best strategy they can come up with is to come into Iraq, get their asses beaten and thrown out by Iraqis and Americans working together, and retreat to Afghanistan, then I think we're doing pretty damn good.


Pretty much...

Especially since the inspiration for all this media focus on the 'Upswing in violence in A-stan'...

Was an action that was a spectacular ROUT of Taliban forces....

When the Talis hit a platoon (40 men) with a half-strength battalion (300 men), and suffer ~50% casualties (~140 KIA/WIA).... And are forced to RETREAT after only killing 9 of ours...

That's quite a feat.... For our defenders....

And similarly, the media is spinning US forces kicking ass into 'a problem in Afganhistan'...

Yeah, some 'problem' - the enemy hit a US element with a force that, all things being equal, SHOULD have annihilated our guys due to the disparity in numbers... But all things ARE NOT equal, and they got their ass kicked instead...

If the above is 'bad news' in war, then what is good news?


All of this is good news... with the exception that they were able to bring 300 ANYTHING to fight against us.

When was the last time there were attacks by 300 terrorists against a US detatchment or outpost or even a patrol in IRQ? I don't think the enemy has been so bold or even remotely capable of organizing 300 people to do anything in IRQ since probably a month after the invasion began. Maybe the JAM Militia a couple of times? I thought those were all fights against the IRQ Army and Police.

All I am saying here is that I suspect the Islamofascist recruitment message has changed to "Come to the glorious caves of Afghanistan where we routed the godless Communists! Let's do it again!"

What I don't get is that we can have so much freer use of our airpower in AFG as it is largely not an urban fight - why would you want to conduct mass attacks in a place where the ordy's going to come raining down without regard to collateral damage?

Maybe this is a last-ditch "death throes" acting-out kinda thing?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 2:38:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
I think the enemy thinks in long terms - like decades.


They think in terms of eternity, and they are convinced
that they will win because they are superior to us, showing
them that this is not true does not matter, they will still believe
(by "they" I mean the "extremist" that are fighting us)
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